Duke Map/Mod of the Month Club - December 2024

Page 1 of 1

You cannot start a new topic
You cannot reply to this topic

Duke Map/Mod of the Month Club - December 2024 "DN64 VS DNTM"

FistMarine

#1 Posted 03 December 2024 - 04:45 AM

What's this thing?
We play through a set of maps/mods during the month, and use this thread to discuss it as we're still all fresh with our comments/opinions/feelings about the maps.

What's the purpose?
Basically, there are 4 purposes:

Showcasing some of the older mods/maps to wider public - they definitely deserve the attention!
Getting more people to actually enjoy and appreciate the user content - because let's be honest, over the past 28 years this was really what kept Duke alive after all.
...and while we're at it - keeping Duke alive by still enjoying it, as there's no new games in the franchise on the horizon (and let's be honest, they wouldn't be as good as some of this stuff!).
Having a more structured discussion on maps than what's going in "Last map you played" thread - which is great, but it's basically a monologue most of the time.

Can I join?
Sure, as long as you find some spare time during the month to play the stuff that's on the table!

Why a month?
Because people have lives, jobs or other stuff to do (like mapping). For smaller maps, this could be shorter time - it's all up to debate in the future!

What port should I use? Are mods allowed? Where to get the maps?
It's entirely up to you how you play the game, so you can use whatever port or mod allowed - it would be cool to state in your posts what you're using too, as there might be some slight differences between the ports! As for the maps, they should be always linked within the first post.

How should I play the maps or post about them?
Again, it's up to you. You can finish them all in one go or play them one by one whenever you feel like. On Doom forums, there's a rule that you should keep the pace by not posting about a map that has a higher number than the day of the month, so e.g. on 6th you shouldn't post about map 7 etc. I think that might be a good practice if there's a large interest in this, but first let's see how active the thread is for a start - so if there's nothing going on, feel free to post about whatever map you want to.

Previous 2024 Editions

Spoiler

Previous 2023 Editions

Spoiler

Previous 2022 Editions

Spoiler

Previous 2021 Editions

Spoiler

For this month, Duke Nukem 64 and Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown have been chosen!

Duke Nukem 64 was released in late 1997 and is the Nintendo 64 port of Duke Nukem 3D. The port features significant changes from the PC version, including modified and expanded levels and a different set of weapons. The port also includes a four-player deathmatch mode and a two-player co-op mode via split-screen. The game's mature themes have been minimized to satisfy Nintendo's adult content standards.

Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown was also released in late 1997 and is the name given to the PlayStation port of Duke Nukem 3D. The port features new music, new enemies, and an exclusive fourth episode: Plug 'N' Pray.

Both of these console versions are available nowadays as EDuke32 mods and can be downloaded from the links below. However, there are also two new ways (official and unofficial) to play DN64 and DNTM!

Duke Nukem 64 is fully supported by RedNukem source port and highly recommended instead of the DN64 mod. All you have to do is to copy the ROM file into the RedNukem directory to start playing the game. Unfortunately, I cannot help providing the ROM file but what I can mention is the name of the ROM file: Duke Nukem 64 (USA).n64

Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown has been released a year ago on the Evercade console, bundled with Duke Nukem 1+2 Remastered into Duke Nukem Collection 1. That version is simply a re-release of Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown and is now called Duke Nukem 3D: Total Meltdown.
Read here for more information about the decision to include Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown instead of the usual Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition!
https://evercade.co....total-meltdown/

If you don't have Duke64 and DukeTM in any capacity and want to play them for the first time, then I highly recommend to follow these steps:
1) To play Duke 64, download the latest RedNukem version and make sure to put the proper ROM file into the directory to run the game. The file you are looking for is called Duke Nukem 64 (USA).n64. At least that version worked perfectly for me. I will NOT provide that file for obvious reasons.
2) To play Duke TM, I recommend downloading the latest EDuke32 version and the latest DukeTM version from ModDB. Unzip the file into its own directory, copy and paste the DUKE3D.GRP file into the directory (make sure it is the Atomic Edition from December 1996) and optionally, you can replace the included eduke32.exe file with the newer version, in case you prefer using a newer eduke32 build than the included one.

Well, what are you waiting for? Download the files at the following links:

EDuke32
https://dukeworld.co...nthesis/latest/

RedNukem
https://github.com/n...NBlood/releases

Duke Nukem 64 Mod
https://www.moddb.co.../dn64/downloads

Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown TC
https://www.moddb.co.../dntm/downloads

If playing DN64 mod in EDuke32, I recommend using the latest 2015 build of EDuke32 (r5498).

If playing DNTM mod in EDuke32, I recommend using the latest 2018 build of EDuke32 (r7299). At least if you are playing the older 2018 versions of the DNTM TC, such as versions 1.0.0 to 1.0.3.

If playing the latest DNTM v1.1 release from 2024 (recommended), then either use the included eduke32 build from January 2022 or use the latest eduke32 build from July 2024, which at the moment of writing is r10593. It is up to you to decide. Make sure to also read the instructions carefully when installing the mod.

You can also play the games through emulators, such as DuckStation (PlayStation Emulator) and Project64 (Nintendo 64 Emulator). This option exists for those who do not have a console and want to get the original experience.

Note that this month mainly focuses on the exclusive Plug N Pray episode from Total Meltdown, as well as the various expanded levels from Duke Nukem 64, at least the ones that have suffered significant changes, in case you prefer to only play a couple levels.

Have fun!

This post has been edited by FistMarine: 03 December 2024 - 04:48 AM

High Treason

#2 Posted 03 December 2024 - 10:27 AM

OK, then...

It had just so happened I was using this as an internal test when it came up that it would be the next "of the month" thing. I'm probably going to regret this and don't make any promises that I'll finish the game. There's also no way I'll be playing Total Meltdown because it's trash and my PS1 died ages ago anyway.</div>

Quacken

#3 Posted 07 December 2024 - 07:38 PM

I'm going to do the Duke Nukem 64 reviews a little differently. Since this is a port of a mapset that has already been covered, and the fact that I don't think there'll be too many changes to justify writing up a comprehensive review, I'm not going to give these maps ratings or even their own segments. Rather I'm just going to talk about my experience with the port.

For starters, I decided I would get the "true" Nintendo 64 experience by emulating the game. I actually own a Nintendo 64 in real life, so I'd play it on official hardware if I could, but I'd have to order a copy of the game online and that costs money. I've delayed these reviews for long enough anyway. Emulating the game instead of using the Rednukem TC means I am playing on a controller instead of a keyboard. It was pretty hard to get used to after two maps, and to be honest I think I still haven't configured it right. The Nintendo 64's single control stick makes you look around and you walk with the C buttons. Looking left and right was fine but up and down felt very sensitive, and aside from maybe adjusting the dead zone on Project64 I don't think there's a good way to make it less sensitive. Pig Cop Jets turned from annoying nuisances on a good day to super-threats capable of chopping my health down. It wasn't until I got to Duke Burger that I figured out doing jumping shots was the way to ago. The game's auto-aim filled in the blanks.

I've played Hollywood Holocaust, Gun Crazy and Duke Burger so far. Out of those three, Gun Crazy is the stand-out. You couldn't have a pornographic book store on a Nintendo console, so what is America's other favourite past time? Guns! So now it's a gun store. Duke Nukem 64 has some of the better censorship for a violent game I've seen. All of the changes still work in line with Duke's character and his universe. The new posters in the gun store look great, there's soda everywhere instead of alcohol, and the strip club has been replaced with a Duke Burger. It's actually really funny how well the showfloor can be converted into a packing area for the Duke Burger. There's even a truck! Outside of the Gun Crazy-exclusive stuff, there's also the babes. You can't perform violence against women on a Nintendo console, so the babes are indestructible - but let's turn saving them into a gameplay mechanic! And then Manhattan Project also made it a gameplay mechanic too. Duke Burger is a cool little bonus level but is unfortunately not very interesting. Without the E4 monsters, Enforcers or even Octabrains (even though there already was one in the last map), you can now only hack through four different enemy types. I was a little surprised by the ending though. I forgot Death Row was the next map up so I didn't realise that you would have to get trapped again and sent to prison.

Aleks

#4 Posted 09 December 2024 - 02:43 PM

Quote

You can't perform violence against women on a Nintendo console

Oho, I think you're in for a big surprise very soon...

High Treason

#5 Posted 10 December 2024 - 05:10 PM

Continuing on, starting with the secret level I missed and getting about halfway into Episode 2.

In brief, Episode 1 seemed to survive mostly intact, despite some strange artistic choices and questionable additions to levels. Duke Burger being brought over is questionable when the main gimmicks and a good proportion of the level's theming has to be torn out for one reason or another. Episode 2, on the other hand, has had its ass torn off, by far the most badly done to stuff in the game so far. Also the 3D explosions really should have been optional or just not included at all because their rendering is buggy anyway, plus they obscure your view completely and end up getting you killed when facing enemies like mini-bosses.

Quacken

#6 Posted 13 December 2024 - 04:24 AM

These next three maps aren't too interesting unfortunately. Or I should say that Toxic Dump and Launch Facility were interesting in the wrong ways.

Duke Nukem 64 has a lot of new elements, and after six maps I think I have a good grasp of them. Troopers and Captains have a slightly different head shape, blue armor and red eyes, which makes them closely resemble Firefly Troopers. They also don't have anything to visually distinguish each other, so telling Troopers and Captains apart is impossible until they teleport. This game keeps the Captain's teleport mechanics the same, where you have to walk over where they teleported to get them to come back into reality. This makes fighting them awkward on a slow ~~Turtle Beach~~ Nintendo 64 controller with an analogue stick. You always have to turn around to face them again. This game also doesn't flash your screen red to show you took damage, which can make combat even more awkward as your only tells for taking damage now are a little bit of blood coming off of you and Jon St. John's somehow even more bit-crushed voice lines. The SMGs replace the Chaingun and would be a straight upgrade on a keyboard. They have double the ammo capacity and each pickup gives you 100, which is really silly. Spots where you got 100 Chaingun bullets in the PC game now give you 200 bullets on a much better weapon. I also have better luck stunlocking monsters on average with it, even though the rate of fire is the same.

The Grenade Launcher replaces the RPG. I like using this weapon and it feels very welcome here. It feels like programmers Ashley Finney and Simon Mills knew aiming would be much more difficult, so they swapped the RPG with a grenade launcher that's much more lax to aim. Now you can bounce the grenades off of walls instead of having to show yourself and fumble about with the analogue stick while taking damage. Octabrains however don't die in one grenade, they need at least two. Due to the fact I'm emulating this game, I'm also playing each map continuously. Having the extra ammo from the previous maps also made aiming much easier as I could afford to miss shots while adjusting myself.

Not having any way to equalise Octabrains made Toxic Dump much more painful. Toxic Dump was extremely laggy and dark, which made it not very fun to play. The Blue Key podium drops the frame rate to I want to say about 7 or 8 FPS, and the raising and lowering water section followed by the tunnel is another sluggish area with a lot of height variation that your auto-aim can't help you with. Using the SMGs made the frame rate even slower. Launch Facility was another very laggy map, which surprised me as this is one of the shorter and less detailed maps in the PC game. Fortunately it is a short map, and I was able to maintain a good supply of grenades to clear groups, so I was able to finish it without too much difficulty.

lllllllllllllll

#7 Posted 13 December 2024 - 11:41 AM

You're better off going keyboard+mouse with rednukem than using any 3rd party controllers. Those sticks do not resemble the precision nintendo's had back then.

quakis

#8 Posted 13 December 2024 - 07:12 PM

Being obsessed with Duke3D on PC as a kid, it was inevitable I'd have ended up with a copy for the N64 and PS1 as well. I have many fond memories of DUKE64, and nothing but frustration from Total Meltdown.

DUKE64 was my favourite iteration of Duke3D for a few reasons. The map changes and extra additions to them were just a cool way to re-experience the game, exploring has always been such a big deal for me and having more of that was a plus. The replacement weapons also kept the replay fresh, I kinda liked finding the alternate ammo types and the plasmagun was always fun to use. Saving babes was a much better mechanic and gave me a good reason to keep replaying the game to find all the secrets and babes. The biggest feature was splitscreen multiplayer. I never had a savepak on N64 for a long while. I'd get home from school, jump straight into the campaign and still not make it all the way. That's when I got my little sister involved to help coop through the game, we'd make it just that much further as we memorised the levels until eventually beating it one day before our usual bedtime. Deathmatch was also a core part of our sessions, but not for duels. Roleplay. Duke's levels served great settings for roleplaying. Running the hotel or cinema and being a guest. Exploring the haunted manor of Castle Dukenstein. Day to day life and using the subway system. Exploring the abandoned and flooded police station in Freeway was also pretty cool. We did a similar things in Goldeneye, Quake64 and later Redfaction (on PS2), but Duke64 served the best environments out of them all. If we had Minecraft back then to make our own environments/worlds, you probably have had to rip the controllers from our hands to stop us playing. Another fun twist we'd add is a single DUKEBOT who'd fulfil a wildcard role, often the crazy murderer we had to avoid. Fun times.

Total Meltdown was a pain to play for many reasons. The PS1 controller without analog sticks makes it hard to play, switching weapons and using items was clumsier than it needed to be. I originally played Duke3D on PC the first time using a gamepad and it was never this much trouble. The second killer was saving took up almost an entire memory card; if I wanted to play Duke3D on PS1, I had to clear space on the memory card first or not bother. Yuck. I never bothered much with the original campaign, more interested in playing through Plug N Pray that took an unnecessary long time to beat. Nightmare Zone is a nightmare, probably the longest level to beat and surprised I made it through. Might have resorted to a walkthrough at one point. The near invisible bridge toward the end was bullshit. The rest of the campaign wasn't as bad but nothing too memorable. Gates Motel had a nice horror aspect to it. Completing the new episode was enough to shelve this game for good, sticking to Duke64 for casual runs instead. Curiously the PS1 version over in the UK never used that subtitle, it was released as just Duke Nukem and still have my original copy.

This post has been edited by quakis: 13 December 2024 - 07:13 PM

Quacken

#9 Posted 14 December 2024 - 01:13 AM

The Abyss, Battlelord and Spaceport also weren't very interesting. Okay, I guess the Battlelord arena being its own map is a little interesting.

One thing I immediately noticed is that there's no music during the maps, and the sky textures have been replaced with solid colours. Bright blue for E1 and solid black for E2. E1 feels a lot more happy with the alien invasion taking place in broad daylight. The lack of music is certainly a technical limitation, but since I'm on an emulator I've been playing each map's corresponding music track. I don't have access to the intermission song, but that's manageable. With this and Doom 64's sound design, the Nintendo 64 had a lot of horror-themed shooters, intentional or otherwise. What is definitely not a technical limitation is the fact that all of the ammo is blue. Why is that? It makes it hard to

Towards the end of The Abyss I got the Missile Launcher. This is about the same thing as the regular RPG. It's as I suspected pretty hard to aim, though thankfully your first good target for it is the Large Battlelord, who is a huge monster. I knew he was coming up so I hoarded my missiles for him, which made killing him easier. The Large Battlelord gets his own appropriately-named level. Also a technical limitation, but a very funny one. Not too much to say here, since it's just the Large Battlelord. Spaceport is also mostly unchanged, though I remember the Shrinker secret being a lift that you call out of thin air and the floor drops out from under you, instead of here where it's off to the side.

NNC

#10 Posted 14 December 2024 - 05:27 AM

Hot take: Nightmare Zone could have been a great map, but it only works with DNTM palette and music. Playing it on classic EDuke32 can make it look really bad with no proper shading and sounds. Unfortunately TM has clunky controls, that makes the map much harder than it is, so the level eliminates in the musical chair game unfairly.

I also love Trackside Tragedy, but it has similar issues. Gates Motel is cool too. The rest of the levels in TM are pretty garbage IMHO.

High Treason

#11 Posted 16 December 2024 - 10:36 PM

Quacken's remarks are generally spot on in regards to the lack of red flash when taking damage, or nearly every ammo pickup being blue and white.

This time I play from Occupied Territory to the end of Dark Side. With Episode 2's later levels being probably my favorites in the PC version, the gimping really shows here. I cannot fathom why they gutted Dark Side as badly as they did and I almost have to think they just hated the level for some reason. I could accept "technical reasons" (read: we're clueless) for getting rid of the open hub, much as with the lack of music, but when it comes to things like erasing the satellites and telescopes from the crater or chopping other pieces of the level off, I can't really come up with any plausible reason. The N64 does have to contend with just half the amount of RAM you'd usually be able to cram the game into on a PC, but I struggle to imagine this was entirely to blame unless they really screwed up tile caching or something, but as you're loading everything from ROM there shouldn't be too much of a slowdown to load and unload things when needed - there was no problem adding extra tiles for babe saving and such. As I play on, we'll see similar befuddlement at the erasure of numerous sliding sectors and rotating sectors that the engine can quite obviously do, and you can't tell me it's a performance issue that caused their removal (barring crap programming) as Build uses 64-Bit integers like it's going out of fashion, something the N64's CPU is extremely fast at working with (for its time) and should have no problem manipulating to move a bunch of wall points.

That said, it's still holding up as the better port, but Episode 2 really did get mistreated badly by this team.

This post has been edited by High Treason: 17 December 2024 - 05:43 AM

NNC

#12 Posted 17 December 2024 - 12:09 AM

I'm not even sure what's the point of reviewing bastardizations? Duke64 is a hackwork, probably without the original mappers' approval. I give a firm 1/10 to all levels in this hack.

Quacken

#13 Posted 18 December 2024 - 05:21 AM

Incubator properly introduces the Sentry Drones and they are your new worst enemy. The Nintendo 64's lower resolution makes them harder to see and they are a flying enemy which does not gel well with an analogue stick. Their counter also doesn't show up for another two levels. The closet with four of them in Incubator and the six in Warp Factor is very good at killing you now. Furthermore, the 3D explosions they create often lag the game which allows more Sentry Drones to kick you while you're down. Warp Factor introduces the Mini Battlelord. They got buffed in this port; they can't be shrunk anymore. Which is actually a crazy buff, since now you actually have to fight all of them fairly. I feel like this was done because the Shrinker was given a much higher ammo capacity (not to mention a ton of ammo in this episode) and the Shrinker hard counters it, as well as the fact you have to play continuously. The Expander's ammo also gets introduced here but you currently get too little to make good use of it. Commanders too, but they're just as stupid as ever, and not in the good way. Hi, Alien Beast! That's a dumb as hell name, I'm going to keep calling you the Protector Drone. I don't like Fusion Station in the PC game and I like it even less here. It's surprisingly not as laggy as I thought it would be, but all of the same problems persist and are magnified by the slower gameplay.

I will however give this map a 6.5 over the PC map's 5.5 because it introduces the Explosive Shells. This map was a 3.5 before the explosive shells were introduced and their blessing upon this world gives three extra points. These temporarily replace your regular shells while you have them and they create an explosion when you fire them. I used to pray for times like this. Giving Duke his own Super Shotgun not only patches up most of the inherent pacing issues, it just makes the game much more fun. It's not 100% consistent, but a meatshot explosive shell can kill an Enforcer in one shot. Sentry Drones take about three explosive shells instead of the five or so it normally takes, and hordes especially become much more manageable as the shells seem like they have the same blast radius as regular explosives. It's not a hitscan Missile Launcher though, because even six explosive shells can't kill a Battlelord. Occupied Territory is a pretty severe difficulty spike in the PC game, but the new weapons make the triple Battlelord much less RNG-dependent. Being able to horde 99 plasma helps too.

Aleks

#14 Posted 20 December 2024 - 03:40 AM

I wasn't a big fan of the level design changes in DN64 (although this remake of Stadium was certainly better than the original, and the 3D cycloid for some reason seemed much more challenging). E1L2 was probably the worst offender, even if the sneak-peek to Rabid Transit was a nice touch. On the other hand, the lack of subway effect in E3L6 turned out a nice change, as the level was completely remade. Also Movie Set was a nice expansion, with the extra studio leading to Area 51. Extra police station in Freeway wasn't so bad either, but I'm not a big fan of the extra rooms in Fahrenheit fire station, as they just look pretty generic. The new weapons are certainly a good and welcome addition.

I have pretty much the opposite thoughts on Total Meltdown than NNC though - Nightmare Zone is plain and simple a guide on how not to make levels for DN3D. The levels get more interesting with time though, from Gates Motel onward - the Pulp Fiction themed level (Duke Royale) and the one with alien ships being the highlights. The last level was kinda mediocre though and the boss was a joke.

Quacken

#15 Posted 22 December 2024 - 07:01 PM

I finished Episode 2 just now.

The Pistol also has a new ammo type: The Dum Dums apparently do 12 times more damage than a regular Pistol bullet does and I can only assume they're some kind of heavy armor-piercing bullet. They are ludicrously strong but you usually only get 12 in a map, if they even contain one at all. That combined with your less than stellar aiming method means you will often waste shots or accidentally use them on a Trooper or Protozoid. Still though, being able to kill an Enforcer in two Pistol shots is hilarious, and it makes the game feel much faster when you do have them.

I'm getting better at using the Plasma Cannon. Two fully charged shots (that use 33 ammo) will vaporise a Battlelord, which gives a "quick" way of disposing them now that the Shrinker isn't an option. Protozoids are very quickly earning my ire. There is no quick kick button in this game and picking up ammo or weapons while the Boot is out auto-switches you to that weapon (with no safeguards like in Doom with the Rocket Launcher and BFG). Switching to the Boot if a Protozoid grabs your face is also very slow and will cost you a lot of health. By the time I got to Dreadnought I started SMGing the Protozoid nests because I didn't want to take damage.

Dark Side was significantly shortened in Duke Nukem 64, and I don't really care honestly. If anything it might actually make the map a little better paced, because it cuts out a train ride and having to blow up another reactor with an explosive. Also, that is in fact violence against women at the end of the map. I was wrong. I'm kind of surprised the severely mutilated corpses were able to make it past Nintendo honestly. Overlord was also split into two levels, with the first half of the PC map being turned into Dreadnought and the boss fight being called Overlord. Were the water tunnels in the back part of the original map? I don't remember them. The Overlord himself gets one death out of me, but I'm able to run it back and win on the second attempt. Not bad!

High Treason

#16 Posted 23 December 2024 - 02:10 AM

Once again, it seems I'm not alone in my thoughts about many aspects of DN64. Dum Dums are a great addition, but the exploding shotgun is a menace and as there's no way to switch back to regular ammo, outside of using up all the alternate type, the gun is rendered useless - especially in Episode 2 where a lot of the levels are made of small enclosed spaces.
Today, then, I finish Episode 2, taking advantage of my unusual way of holding the controller to fiddle about in the inventory while running from the Overlord. I skip Dreadnought despite it being a map I like, because this map always broke for me on N64 due to switches not working. Never heard of anyone else having this problem and in hindsight, should have played the level properly, but never mind. I still hold the opinion that the devs strongly disliked Episode 2, which I only believe more firmly as we move into Episode 3. The levels here are tampered with far more than any of the others and of course the quality of the alterations varies greatly, but somehow where it felt like modifications like castrating Dark Side were done out of spite more than necessity, Episode 3's alterations come across as being made out of a fondness for these maps.

It leaves somewhat conflicting thoughts in my mind because on one hand it gives you a reason to play this version, making it its own thing, but at the same time it's supposed to be Duke Nukem 3D.
Unfortunately I still rarely think to use night vision goggles when the screen gets dark, due to being used to the way they work on the PC. They're actually useful on the N64.

Quacken

#17 Posted 28 December 2024 - 11:27 PM

Raw Meat underwent some noticeable changes. Aside from removing the geisha's ability to flash you, the karaoke bar has been replaced with a stage where the Good Old Boys are performing for one night only. I'm not really sure why this was done as I don't think there was anything suspicious about the karaoke bar, but it makes the map a lot more interesting as a result, especially because you can see the Blues Brothers behind a cage. The stage uses some nice coloured lighting and I like the new textures that were created. Bank Roll removes the safe puzzle and replaces it with a much more simple area with Turrets, a staircase, a pit of water and a shootable switch. This is also an improvement in my opinion. The safe puzzle was stupid and slowed the original map's pacing to a halt while the spiral staircase and water pit with Octabrains is much more reasonable. It would still be pretty annoying admittedly if I was playing on a keyboard but it's only a minor speed bump on a controller. The whole game's kind of slow paced.

Flood Zone is generally speaking much darker, and also has several unique areas. It's easy to get disorientated in the pitch black room with Octabrains and Protozoids, and as a result of all of the new additions this map ends up having one of the higher kill counts in the game. Being able to carry over a Jetpack helps a lot. I couldn't find a shortcut out of the Yellow Key room so I had to backtrack the way I came, which was a bit lame. The only things worth mentioning about L.A. Rumble are the abortion clinic is gone (which I didn't like about the original map) and that I'm surprised it's not laggier than it is. Going back to Flood Zone though, the next new element is introduced - the final alternate ammo type, Heat Seeking Missiles. These ones are just okay. They aren't any stronger than regular missiles but instead home in on targets in a pretty strange way that limits their usefulness around walls. They're nice on L.A. Rumble though where you can tilt the analogue stick up and fire at will, with the missile doing the aiming for you. More ways to circumvent aiming with the analogue stick is appreciated. Sure beats Apogee's in-house attempt at heat seeking missiles!

High Treason

#18 Posted 29 December 2024 - 06:30 PM

The journey through the third and final episode continues, with a cameo from Episode 4 in the form of the penultimate secret level. Modifications continue to appear and again, seem to add to rather than subtract from the experience.

I actually like the UFO at the end of LA Rumble aside form its slightly odd texture choice - I always think of Duke's alien ships as being green. In this level we also see further proof that the game shares most of its game-side code with the PC version as towards the end, when looking out of a window, we see liztroops using their jetpack bumping into each other, despite being separated by quite some height. While I've never looked at this part of the PC game's source code very much to confirm it, I've long held that most of their collision is probably only ever handled on the x & y axes to save time. This behavior is more often observed with RPVs bumping into things that are on the ground far below. Both these and cranes, then, should do the same thing on N64 as they do on PC in regards to this quirk of the game.*

Movie Set's lack of space textures is really weird. The area wasn't parallaxed and you can't tell me they couldn't spare enough RAM to put a few random white dots on the wall. If they could spare the resources for their added area (admittedly nice) complete with exclusive new textures and that animated wet stone texture, they could totally have spared enough to put a space texture in. Instead you get empty black walls and ceilings on the rocket interior set, which looks bloody awful.

Area 51 has lost its starting area. Funny thing is how the building at the start always made me think of the one in DN64's Movie Set, even before I knew about the entrance being there in this version. I get my revenge for the elevator in Dark Side here and would gladly have seen that "petrol gun" (Plasma Cannon, but I always thought it looked like a gas can) brought over to the PC. Always found the tunnel in front of the ship to be utterly pathetic in both versions of the game.

Subway has been modified heavily. While the trains are gone, replaced with a single 2-way train, I feel enough was added to the map to make up for it. However, this level reuses a bunch of Gun Crazy, which is lazy and crappy. It's the second time the game has done this, as it did the same thing the other way around in Gun Crazy. This is worse than Nuclear Winter, which at least had the decency to do two different levels... No, I actually like it, but it's funny how people always praise it here and not in Nuclear Winter, despite the significant changes that episode made to the levels it reused. Still, this level is pretty cool and offered another excuse to use the petrol gun.

The videos will run slightly late, into January 5th, longer if I decide to split the final part, but I think I'm happy to just let it run slightly long after every other video in the series did that anyway.

* Given the strength of the N64's CPU, I'd wager 3D collision would have been quite possible without any real performance penalty. RAM is generally the limit on N64. No need for this and I'm happy they left it alone, but an interesting thought..

Quacken

#19 Posted 04 January 2025 - 05:01 AM

I'm a little torn on Movie Set. On one hand, removing the sky textures from the walls makes the map lose a lot of its visual charm. But also it plays better because you have good weapons and there's the really nice-looking Area 51 set and secret exit room. Let's call it even. Area 51 seems like it was shortened compared to the PC map - I remember teleporting into the gulch with Pig Cops and Tanks being a huge bother in the PC game. There's a lot of Protector Drones in this map, and they are actually quite tricky to deal with in this game. They're very fast and good at getting in your face, making Explosive Shells a bad option, can turn corners much better than you can, their shrink ray both lags the game and creates a distracting, green 3D cloud that blocks your vision, and without being able to rely on explosives or the Shrinker they are pretty bulky. This is the first map to throw multiples at you and I was hurting for SMG clips by the time I was out.

Rabid Transit has been heavily modified to the point that it is basically a completely new level, and I think it's a pretty cool one. As someone who does a lot of "You can see a previous map from a different angle" type things while Doom mapping I actually really like that you can see Gun Crazy and Rabid Transit next to each other. It makes things feel more interconnected. (And yes, I do like playing Nuclear Winter.) Also, there's graffiti of a Shadow Warrior emblem on the wall. And I'm not trying to say anything, but I'm just saying, man... I do have to say though, out of the few areas they did keep, they kept the awful Battlelord jumpscare on the stairs. With an analogue stick this trap is going to kill you even faster. Then I forgot there was a Battlelord up the stairs too and I had 2 health, so I had to take a humiliation sip at the drink fountain to get back to 30. All in all though, for the better guns as well as the cool secret where you can jump into a subway train AND the turned over postal truck in a carpark, I actually like this map better than the original.

This post has been edited by Quacken: 04 January 2025 - 05:03 AM

Merlijn

#20 Posted 04 January 2025 - 10:41 AM

I was never too interested in Duke64, I was only aware of the babe saving mechanic and swapping out the sexual stuff with other themes. I never knew they added so much additional areas to E3, that's quite interesting to see! As I've said elsewhere, I always felt E3 was a bit too small in scope and felt rushed compared to the first 2 episodes. Perhaps the devs felt the same and tried to "fix" that? I do like those additional areas in Movie Set and Rabit Transit. I also went ahead and checked Fahrenheit, seems that one was improved too by making the fire station an actual place instead of 1 empty hallway.

Quacken

#21 Posted 05 January 2025 - 03:21 AM

Fahrenheit isn't really a map I enjoy, but I do like how the fire station was expanded upon here, even if the texture choices are a bit limiting and the lighting is non-existent. The crate maze especially was really annoying to chew through due to how Sentry Drones are much harder to kill. You do get more Explosive Shells here though and those are quite good to have for them. Hotel Hell is one of two maps to feature the best monster in Duke Nukem 3D, the Overlord Sentry. There's only one here though. It managed to kill me the first time and then I remembered the Plasma Cannon exists. Nothing else changes here though. Freeway features the... other... Overlord Sentry and... has... a surpr...isingly... detail...ed yet optional... police headquarters. This is by far the laggiest map in the game, even more so than Toxic Dump. The opening scramble is damn near unplayable without mouse aiming and the FPS count going below 7, and the second and last Overlord Sentry becomes much harder to deal with when the main strip of road is even slower than the start. Also, I found a glitch - I used the Jetpack and the sound effect that plays while you use it didn't turn off at one point, so for half of the map's runtime I had to listen to the Jetpack sound effect as well as the map being unbearably slow. I'm not gonna reload the game and play the start again. That glitch even persisted into the main menu when I went to reload the game to play Stadium. Stadium has a significant facelift. Look at you, Cycloid Emperor! You're a 3D model now! And the stadium you've claimed as your home doesn't look like it's floating in space anymore! Cyclie Cyc is much more difficult here than in the PC game. Circle strafing him is still possible on an analogue stick but it's much harder to do consistently, and you still have to aim well to do enough damage with only 66 Plasma. Hope you hoarded your missiles! I also appreciate that the ending cutscene is a Sunstorm-style Powerpoint rather than a still image and a message like the end of the other two episodes.

Is it weird that I actually enjoy playing this more than the PC game? Like way more, even with the slowdowns and using an analogue stick? The new weapons and ammo types are fantastic and really help with the game's pacing. Explosive Shells and Dum Dums are rare but they give you a reliable way to oneshot the hitscanners, which is missing in the PC game. The Grenade Launcher makes hitscan hell much more doable and allows for really satisfying curling-looking shots where you fire a grenade and blow up someone far away when they haven't even noticed you, and its ammo is common and powerful enough in the base game to make crowds both easier and more fun to kill. The Plasma Cannon makes the Freezethrower look like a joke, it's more powerful, more exciting to use and it's more skill intensive. I would say the only miss here is the Missile Launcher with its inability to blow up Octabrains with one shot and having a slower fire rate than the regular RPG. The regular RPG is actually pretty solid compared to the other weapons. I also like the other new features added like saving the babes and never minded any of the Nintendo censorship like swapping Red Light District for Gun Crazy. None of that "ruins" the game for me, nor do any of the level changes. Great stuff here in my book!

High Treason

#22 Posted 05 January 2025 - 07:40 PM

And that's that.

Fahrenheit is garbage, because it always was garbage. Hard to decide which version is worse. Always felt like some bastard child of M4 and a bunch of other maps that should have been left on the cutting room floor. I swear the yellow key wasn't there when I lowered the pole platform thingy. The new fire station area is terrible.

Hotel Hell is largely unchanged, aside from having a lone Overlord miniboss. I ended up not bothering to fight him, because it would require backtracking and I didn't fancy running myself out of resources just one level before a real boss fight. It's a map I liked on the PC and I like it about as much here, as much as that's possible when playing on an N64.

Freeway is rather interesting. Right from the very start they've been in and fiddled with things. They've also added a sizeable new area that could well have been its own map - it has to be at least the same size as Fahrenheit - had they put some kind of challenge in place and populated it a little more. As it is, you can beat the level without ever going there and it just sort of exists for some reason. It's a shame, because it's fairly well made aside from the few nasty things like full height doors. It's as though the Eurocom mappers suddenly figured out what they were doing and found their style, right at the last moment.

Stadium has been modified extensively. What you don't see in single player is that there's a whole new area behind the bleachers. It's not actually bad. If I get bored, I might record a very short bonus video at some point where I walk around in there and the multiplayer only levels, but I have no plans to do so. It'll happen if I have the N64 on by chance and the few minutes spare to do it.

All in all, I maintain that this one is by far the least shit of the console ports. It has the best soundtrack of them, it controls about as well as could be expected minus a few conveniences it could have done with and the frame rate isn't even as garbage as it might have been. To that effect, the game has a split screen multiplayer that really doesn't slow down as much as you'd think it should, either, but leads to a question that didn't occur to me when recording - that mode suggests they had multiple rendering passes implemented, which only leaves the lack of mirrors and skies even more puzzling. In any case, while not so relevant today, in the 1990s the fact multiplayer was possible at all, on a single console, meant this port could do something the PC version could not. The PC required an accessory in the form of a null modem cable for local play, or an actual modem and in any case, multiple PCs. On the N64, you only needed the one console and cartridge with enough controllers for upto three friends to join you, and it was fun when they did.
The single player mode mostly retains what made Duke Nukem 3D fun on its own and while it's ugly in places, it's definitely still the same game in essence. The new weapons are mostly good and fun to use, and while some of the additions to levels were gross to look at, it was interesting the first time you discovered them and rarely felt too much like it didn't belong. All in all, I'd play it again, but perhaps not on the actual N64.

ck3D

#23 Posted 06 January 2025 - 07:48 AM

It's interesting what you're saying in the video about lots of people never getting the Atomic Edition until in the 2000's, that also was my case but I hadn't realized it wasn't so isolated. But it makes sense and I think explains why Duke 64 had so much of an unsung impact (for better and for worse) on the design language of a lot of later user maps built in this engine and even to these days projects like Ion Fury. Novelties/oddities like sector skyboxes or decorative areas/doors. It takes some perspective to realize but when one's memory of a childhood game is so fuzzy it's easy to remember a mishmash of every aspect that had some kind of appeal or impact indiscriminately of specific versions or ports of the game. In the case of Duke 3D means everyone's representation of, and relationship to the game greatly varies depending on whether or not they experienced that gap between 1.3D and Atomic and how they bridged it if yes, but it seems like Duke 64 was a popular compromise. Tempting to suggest that Duke DC may have left a similar mark amongst non-console users.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 06 January 2025 - 07:49 AM