[Micky C]

I'm sure it's on the infosuite somewhere. Can't look ATM though.

[blizzart]

Micky C, on 16 December 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

I'm sure it's on the infosuite somewhere. Can't look ATM though.

Here: http://infosuite.duk...ge=ae_sprites_b

[Rhaisher]

Ok... so here it is, the nightmare of every new mapper: TROR! I've given this a read and, alongisde Jblade's help, I figured out how to start the process of TROR.
Basically I've drawn a sector inside another without their vertexes touching (to start the process, at least), turned it into a nested sector with Alt - S, highlighted it with Right Alt to press Ctrl - E and punch the loop down. I intend to build a room beneath the room I'm working on ATM.
This is what I get.



What am I doing wrong? I mean... I don't want a hole on the floor of the main room/ceiling of the room below, I want to be able to edit both. Yeah... I want the player to be able to access it through a hole on the ground/ceiling, but not one that occupies ALL the room.

I know that the answer might be a bit tedious, but Micky once said that new mappers should learn to map with TROR and that's what I'm doing.

Thanks a bunch to him and blizzart for the links, BTW.

[Kyanos]

ok, hope this helps a little.

make the tror sector the ''portal'' between the two layers. then get down in that new underneath TROR sector (in 3d mode) switch to 2d mode and draw more rooms from the tror sector you are in. They will be under the top layer and I think that's what you want.

Quote

Micky once said that new mappers should learn to map with TROR

I highly recommend getting the basics down first. Playing around with TROR is fun, but real practical in game use of it needs to be very precisely planned. TROR is a finicky feature.

[Rhaisher]

Drek, on 17 December 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

I highly recommend getting the basics down first. Playing around with TROR is fun, but real practical in game use of it needs to be very precisely planned. TROR is a finicky feature.

I'm trying this, thanks for your answer! Yeah... I want to make an explodable crack on the floor of the upper room to reach the room beneath. To advance from this point I'll use the good old transport feature.

[blizzart]

Rhaisher, on 17 December 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ok... so here it is, the nightmare of every new mapper: TROR! I've given this a read and, alongisde Jblade's help, I figured out how to start the process of TROR.
Basically I've drawn a sector inside another without their vertexes touching (to start the process, at least), turned it into a nested sector with Alt - S, highlighted it with Right Alt to press Ctrl - E and punch the loop down. I intend to build a room beneath the room I'm working on ATM.
This is what I get.



What am I doing wrong? I mean... I don't want a hole on the floor of the main room/ceiling of the room below, I want to be able to edit both. Yeah... I want the player to be able to access it through a hole on the ground/ceiling, but not one that occupies ALL the room.

I know that the answer might be a bit tedious, but Micky once said that new mappers should learn to map with TROR and that's what I'm doing.

Thanks a bunch to him and blizzart for the links, BTW.

I don´t quite understand what you are trying to do.

Your pics are showing the lowered bunch, right? And what do you want to do now?

Actually you create the "hole" through which the player falls into the room beneath and create a bunch of THIS sector. After that you go into that created with PGDN until you see a sector with white walls in 2D mode. Now you can add sectors as you wish to that white walls to create the room underneath the hole.

I hope you can understand what I´m trying to say.

[blizzart]

This should make it more clear:

1. I create the "hole" sector where the player falls through/can look into the underneath room. I lower it a bit in 3Dmode, so that I will get the "hole" instandly when creating the bunch (this can be changed afterwards in case you forget this):



2. Then I create the bunch by marking the sector and pressing CTRL+E. By pressing "I" you can switch wether that TROR-texture is visible or not (this shows you where one bunch ends and th lower/upper one starts):


3. In 2Dmode I press PGDN twice so that I´m in the lower bunch (once would let me end in the "hole" between the bunches). In 2dmode you should only see the solid white walls:


4. Now I can start to add sectors that white walls.


5. I can also erase all visible connection between the hole and the hole so that you have a loosely room under the hole.

[Rhaisher]

blizzart, on 17 December 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

This should make it more clear:

1. I create the "hole" sector where the player falls through/can look into the underneath room. I lower it a bit in 3Dmode, so that I will get the "hole" instandly when creating the bunch (this can be changed afterwards in case you forget this):

capt0009_1.jpg capt0010_1.jpg

2. Then I create the bunch by marking the sector and pressing CTRL+E. By pressing "I" you can switch wether that TROR-texture is visible or not (this shows you where one bunch ends and th lower/upper one starts):
capt0011_1.jpg capt0012_1.jpg

3. In 2Dmode I press PGDN twice so that I´m in the lower bunch (once would let me end in the "hole" between the bunches). In 2dmode you should only see the solid white walls:
capt0013_1.jpg capt0014_1.jpg

4. Now I can start to add sectors that white walls.
capt0015_1.jpg capt0016_1.jpg capt0017_1.jpg

5. I can also erase all visible connection between the hole and the hole so that you have a loosely room under the hole.
capt0020_1.jpg capt0018_1.jpg

Thanks a lot. Will give your method a try later. I managed to do some sort of TROR, but the sector HOMs like there's no tomorrow.

[Mark]

Are you in Polymer video mode?

[Rhaisher]

You got a point. IIRC I'm using 32 bit for the 3D mode but I'm not sure, will check later. Thanks for all the help provided.

[blizzart]

Mark., on 17 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Are you in Polymer video mode?

Yeah, looks like you are in Polymost mode. Classic should just work fine with it, otherwise Polymer works best with TROR.

[EDIT] Sorry, I read your reply too late, Rhaisher

[Rhaisher]

Is it possible to make a grate sprite unbreakable with the blocking/hitscan bits? I want to simulate a shadow inside a vent using one of those but haven't had luck with the unbreakable aspect of it. I've been using masked walls -of grates/fans, that is- inside the vents to prevent player progression towards decorative sectors, but I'm unsure if I have to do the same to simulate the counterpart shadow.

[blizzart]

Rhaisher, on 11 January 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

Is it possible to make a grate sprite unbreakable with the blocking/hitscan bits? I want to simulate a shadow inside a vent using one of those but haven't had luck with the unbreakable aspect of it. I've been using masked walls -of grates/fans, that is- inside the vents to prevent player progression towards decorative sectors, but I'm unsure if I have to do the same to simulate the counterpart shadow.

I assume that you cannot do that with sprites. You could either do it with sectors or you use thin darkened/PAL4 sprites and built the grate´s shadow with them.

[Danukem]

You could put an invisible flat sprite right next to the grate sprite, protecting it. You could use almost any tile of the same dimensions but give it cstat 33041 (invisible + wall aligned + blocking + hitscan). Add another 16 to that number for floor aligned. You can edit the cstat directly by pressing F8 on the sprite in 2d mode (otherwise the invisible option is not available).

[Rhaisher]

Thanks for all the help provided, blizzart and DT. I ended up using masked walls because there's a... 'split' shadow and, hence, I was unable to give them the proper effect with spirtes.
My intention was to put some sprites -newspaper, cash, etc.- on the fans to give the effect of 'stuck' trash. But the counterpart shadows were giving me trouble so I decided to remove them. I guess I'll have to do with the good ol' rats and such.

[oasiz]

Nice idea with that maskwall, never really thought about that.

[Daedolon]

Too bad it really won't work if you're able to shoot at the vent.

[Rhaisher]

Daedolon, on 13 January 2016 - 03:08 AM, said:

Too bad it really won't work if you're able to shoot at the vent.

Yeah... As far as I know, with the blocking bit on and the hitscan bit off you can't break the fan of a masked wall with bullets, but explosions do anyway (they are likely to blow the fan and the 'shadow' at the same time, but still)...
Even so, it's been a nice experiment.

[Mark]

I was attempting to use TROR on the rooftop start of E1L1 and ran into trouble. Its the only place I have run into this issue. I can punch in the new lower sector just fine. But when I drop into that sector and try to extend it, the walls do not grey out and the extension only applies to the top layer leaving the bottom one unchanged. I'm assuming it must have something to do with how that part of the map has been constructed. Has anyone else noticed this problem? I would prefer not to have to rebuild the whole part of the map from scratch to see if the problem then disappears. I thought I would post this on the outside chance its a bug.

[juvenite]

I have a problem: my bottom sector is red in 2D mode and I cannot modify it without modifying the top one together. I did exactly what was showed here, but that still happens. How do I fix it?

[Daedolon]

What are you trying to achieve? That's how TROR works.

[juvenite]

This

blizzart, on 17 December 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

In 2Dmode I press PGDN twice so that I´m in the lower bunch (once would let me end in the "hole" between the bunches). In 2dmode you should only see the solid white walls:

Also, is there any good tutorial which explains TROR? Eduke32 wiki didn't help that much.

[Forge]

Meaningless Wounds, on 10 March 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Also, is there any good tutorial which explains TROR? Eduke32 wiki didn't help that much.

I think MickyC might have wrote one, or at least something about what he calls 'scissoring'. Also check this thread @ CGS

http://www.scent-88....topic,54.0.html

He wrote some tips, key combos, and a link to the TROR wiki.

If you don't get a better answer in the next day or two, PM him about it.

[Daedolon]

Meaningless Wounds, on 10 March 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Also, is there any good tutorial which explains TROR? Eduke32 wiki didn't help that much.

It's kind of fiddly, first of all did you press CTRL+A or whatever it was to reveal all of the data. I've noticed that moving between the bunches is easier when you disable rendering through them ("I" in 3D mode) and use RMB to move.

[juvenite]

I think I didn't ask my question properly. Ops.
What I mean is, the white walls, below the red ones are supposed to move together when you extend them, right? If so, how can I make a small hole on the ground and below it an underground sector? How do I make these layers? That's what I'm trying to achieve.

Quote

I think MickyC might have wrote one, or at least something about what he calls 'scissoring'. Also check this thread @ CGS

http://www.scent-88....topic,54.0.html

He wrote some tips, key combos, and a link to the TROR wiki.

Thanks for the link. Helped me to understand a bit more, but there's still a lot for me to figure out I guess

[blizzart]

Meaningless Wounds, on 11 March 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

I think I didn't ask my question properly. Ops.
What I mean is, the white walls, below the red ones are supposed to move together when you extend them, right? If so, how can I make a small hole on the ground and below it an underground sector? How do I make these layers? That's what I'm trying to achieve.

As I´ve shown here: https://forums.duke4...post&pid=235940 just add additional sectors to those white walls.

[quakis]

Since I often use the "Lock" feature in 3D mode, is it possible to disable the sloping and x/y sprite movement part of this mouse function? I always discover sectors have been unintentionally sloped a few pixels, or accidentally move sprites out of place when raising/lowering either. Also happens alot while panning around using the UnrealEd camera mode.

[juvenite]

blizzart, on 11 March 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

As I´ve shown here: https://forums.duke4...post&pid=235940 just add additional sectors to those white walls.

Ahhh, now I did it. Many thanks =)

I have a question now. Is any solution to HOM being worked on for software renderer (if it's even possible)? Polymer easily drops framerate here and Polymost is nothing smooth when moving my view in 3D mode (the HOM problem is solved though).

[blizzart]

Is there a way to rotate a group of sprites?

I selected a group of sprites with RShift but when I try to rotate that group only the sprite I´m pointing on/near the cursor is rotating. Is there any way to do this with the whole group?

[Daedolon]

Hold left SHIFT and start dragging from any sprite with your right mouse button held down. LBM does scaling.