[Daedolon]

Fox, on 02 April 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Yes, why not?

Well, for some reason I just assumed you were literally placing it into the wall, not "shooting" it from the player. Now that I think of it, I don't see why anyone would even do that, carry on.

[Hool]

I'm working on building Duke Burger (my favourite Duke 3D level) in UDK. I haven't touched UDK in over a year so I'm a little rusty but I just bought a 790 page book all on UDK development to touch up on my skills.

[Bruno]

Gambini, on 02 April 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Not sure if the proper thread but what the hell is this?

Even if it is an April joke and I loved DNF as much as DN3D, I dream of playing that awesome mod one day (above all, the map with the donkey )... This game + High Resolution Pack + Duke Plus = THE TRUE DNF!

[Gambini]

Quote

This game + High Resolution Pack + Duke Plus = THE TRUE DNF!

NO FUCKING WAY

[LkMax]

Since it aparently uses a lot of custom sprites I don't believe the HRP would fit well.

[Tea Monster]

No, they are just funny about "p*lyg*ns"

but we are used to that.

It looks great and I'm looking forward to playing it.

People aren't doubting your ability to make mods, it's just the date of the reveal that people assumed it was a prank. Very glad to hear that it isn't!

Did you get the minecarts in?

[Gambini]

Hell i like polygons, but i dont think they belong to duke3d. I can appreciate other forms of modding, but i don´t appreciate when people see the lack of "hires stuff" as a failure of my (our, in this case) projects. It´s the whole point, from my part at least.

And yes, you can see the minecarts in the trailer!

[Tea Monster]

Nobody said it was a 'failure' I just thought it was odd as the 'original' was done with polygons.

[The Commander]

Gambini, on 02 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

NO FUCKING WAY

You know, you could get DT to code in a big ass banner/box that would show up over the whole screen if the HRP or something is used telling the person to play the game as instructed in the readme and not ruin it with some HRP pack.

[Diaz]

guys, that video is awesome. congrats and great work

[Gambini]

Tea Monster, on 02 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Nobody said it was a 'failure' I just thought it was odd as the 'original' was done with polygons.

Well but this is obviously just an interpretation. And it sounds to me, that people point as a failure the lack of hires stuff. Because the first answers i get (from different mediums) are all related to polymer and polygons.

It´s like the first thing you read of your new duke models imply that they would have looked better as sprites.

Quote

You know, you could get DT to code in a big ass banner/

If you see DT around let us know.

[Mikko]

Well I can at least force the player to not play in Polymer by checking rendmode and shooting some annoying sprite on screen if Polymer is run.

Edit: hmmm, is there a similar check for hi-res textures/models?

[Gambini]

The problem with using polymer is not arbitrary, but more related to view distance and heavy use of voxels. Not to mention some levels are utterly vast.

[Tetsuo]

NZRage, on 02 April 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

You know, you could get DT to code in a big ass banner/box that would show up over the whole screen if the HRP or something is used telling the person to play the game as instructed in the readme and not ruin it with some HRP pack.

Oh no! Not the High Res Pack pack!

The amount of disrespect the HRP and polygon models get around here is staggering.

But yeah I could see why using the HRP with that DNF Duke3D mod would be undesirable since it's not targeted for it. Someone would ideally have to make one specifically targeting it.

[LkMax]

Gambini, on 02 April 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Does it look like a joke?

Tea Monster, on 02 April 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

(...) People aren't doubting your ability to make mods, it's just the date of the reveal that people assumed it was a prank. Very glad to hear that it isn't! (...)

Umm... I see, I thought I was clear when I said that, I was genuinely curious if it was indeed a mod since there's plenty of "concept" trailers on youtube and I never saw any topic related.

[Gambini]

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Someone would ideally have to make one specifically targeting it.

Jesus! No HRP, even if it´s expressly designed for this particular mod! You people just don´t get it. We dont want models, lights nor Hi-Res textures in our mod.

[LkMax]

Judging by the overreaction of the simple mention of HRP/polymer (e.g. Mikko_Sandt and Gambini posts), if this mod was a commercial game it would be one of those with no mod tools nor source code released, you now, like those you guys complain every time.

Let the player decide if he want extra 3rd-party features, just tell how it's supposed to be played on a readme or on a pop-up in game, that's not a big deal.

[Mblackwell]

Gambini, on 02 April 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Jesus! No HRP, even if it´s expressly designed for this particular mod! You people just don´t get it. We dont want models, lights nor Hi-Res textures in our mod.

Tetsuo gets it, that's why it was said. If someone wanted to go in and make a mod of your mod (without using your mod as a base, but just injecting models and such into it via def) they technically COULD if they had the time and patience and designed it to work with your assets.

The fact that you don't want it is not really at issue, and there's no real argument about it.

Great work btw. Looks way better than the real DNF.

[Gambini]

This is not a commercial game. This is a mod in which we put our heart and time. We carefully built textures, sprites, levels and code, even many sounds, in our free time. All those are pillars supporting our vision of this "game". If you remove one of those pillars (for example, the sprites, which were done by myself) our construction collapses. It is no longer what we wanted it to be. If somebody, that didn´t build the maps, comes and puts lights where he thinks fitting, he alters the way the map is meant to be, the construction collapses again.

If you like models -which is fine- you need to sit your ass down and make your own project and put them there. I´ll come and comment how good they look and I promise I won´t tell you that sprites would have been better. Even if i think so. Because I will respect your work and will try to appreciate what you wanted to show. And not looking for a way to change it according my style.

If you still want to use the HRP with this, please, keep it to yourself.

[Forge]

you should know the drill by now Gambini

put in the text (that people don't read) to not use polymer or HRP

then listen to all the griping and idiotic complaining that your mod doesn't work with hrp or polymer (after you've already mentioned it 37 times in the template and 12 more in the release thread that it's not supposed to)

it's just a fact of life at good ol' duke4

[OpenMaw]

I totally understand where the guys are coming from what with artistic integrity and all the hard work they put into the project. I wouldn't want mine overwritten by someone elses creative pull or even just the notion that it has to be "Next Gen" or whatever. If you set out with a particular goal in mind and then someone else pisses on it. That's not really fair. Even if they piss on it respectably.

Personally I really like the 8 bit graphics. They look really slick.

[Gambini]

Forge, on 02 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

you should know the drill by now Gambini

I know. Yet I just can´t get over it.

Commando Nukem, on 02 April 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

I totally understand where the guys are coming from what with artistic integrity and all the hard work they put into the project. I wouldn't want mine overwritten by someone elses creative pull or even just the notion that it has to be "Next Gen" or whatever. If you set out with a particular goal in mind and then someone else pisses on it. That's not really fair. Even if they piss on it respectably.

I like your choice of words. I wish more people understand it that way.

[K100]

Gambini, on 02 April 2013 - 12:34 AM, said:

Not sure if the proper thread but what the hell is this?

This is awesome ! Great job, guys ! I can't wait to play it !

And personally, I'm glad you used 8 bit graphics. It look awesome like that !

[LkMax]

So if you had made the game of your dreams and started to sell it for a few bucks people would have the right to "piss" on it because you received payment, just like you are "pissing" on Duke3D. Interesting point of view.

I never meant to use HRP nor polymer because I don't think they fit with the other limitations of Build Engine (kinda blocky maps, almost no physics simulation, etc), but some people don't think like that and there's nothing wrong with them wanting to customize their copy of the mod as long as they don't re-distribute it modified or takes the credits from the authors.

But if it bothers you so much and you don't think many people read the readme files (which actually is true), I'd suggest you to slap a big pop-up warning screen right after the game start. Any crazy effort like actually forcing modding incompatibility just sounds stupid IMO. Good luck with that.

[OpenMaw]

LkMax, on 02 April 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

So if you had made the game of your dreams and started to sell it for a few bucks people would have the right to "piss" on it because you received payment, just like you are "pissing" on Duke3D. Interesting point of view.

As has been stated. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between a game that is released officially and a mod. The mod is the extension of the game created by hobbyists. It's also a moot point when the developers are the ones who gave people the tools to create new content in the first place. But when a small group of people create a mod with specific intentions in their spare time, and they have a caviat or two about how their work is portrayed, that is entirely reasonable.

[Tetsuo]

Mblackwell, on 02 April 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

Tetsuo gets it, that's why it was said. If someone wanted to go in and make a mod of your mod (without using your mod as a base, but just injecting models and such into it via def) they technically COULD if they had the time and patience and designed it to work with your assets.

The fact that you don't want it is not really at issue, and there's no real argument about it.

Yes, thank you. That's exactly the reason why I said what I said.

Just because certain people have a pathological hatred of the HRP and anything associated with it is immaterial to me. I understand why the current HRP would be not ideal to use with their mod but regardless of what anyone feels about it it is within the realm of possibility to make a HRP for their mod if a person wants to roll up their sleeves and do all the work necessary.

Whether or not that would be deemed kosher or acceptable by them is something that's ideological and not technological in nature. And it's pretty clear that they'd absolutely hate the idea no matter how good the results are. To them... no matter how good the pack is they'd hate it because it doesn't fit their tastes or view. But I think people should be free to do as they wish with the software they have downloaded to their computer. That being said I kind of doubt there's anyone around with the motivation, talent and time to make a HRP for that mod. Most people have one or two of those but not all of them. Look how slowly even the pack for the main Duke3D game is going.

I'm sorry if anyone thinks I don't get it because I'm not brown nosing anyone with the same kind of rose tinted "everything that is retro style is better than anything modern" view that certain other people have. Even though I have been playing Duke since it first came out as well as Doom, Blood, etc. I don't think their style of graphics look better than any that remotely modern techniques can provide. Sure, sometimes 16-bit art or even 8-bit art can look good it's not the be all end all of art.

Lastly, while I appreciate the work put into a mod such as that I kind of think some people around here are a bit too arrogant. No one here owns the rights to Duke3D nor can they tell others what to do with the game once they've downloaded it.

[Forge]

LkMax, on 02 April 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

So if you had made the game of your dreams and started to sell it for a few bucks people would have the right to "piss" on it because you received payment, just like you are "pissing" on Duke3D. Interesting point of view.

no. the point of view is that people are going to play a user made mod how they want. no big deal.
the annoying part is when they pop their big greasy head into the release thread and complain that it doesn't work how they want, instead of playing it the way it was intended
those people need to be hit in the mouth by a board with a nail in it, and Gambini gets the first swing

and that applies to this statement as well:

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Lastly, while I appreciate the work put into a mod such as that I kind of think some people around here are a bit too arrogant. No one here owns the rights to Duke3D nor can they tell others what to do with the game once they've downloaded it.

you're going to do what you want, but you shouldn't complain if it doesn't work right when you go against the original recommendations that come with the release

double edit: and the assumption about a certain individual having a pathological hatred for hrp is completely unfounded. he has shown his appreciation and liked several hrp specific releases. his point is if a project was never originally intended to use the hrp, then that's the way it should be played; without hrp. If someone goes ahead and uses hrp, then they shouldn't bitch when shit don't look or work right

[Tetsuo]

While I understand that they wouldn't want to support stuff that's out of their control like the HRP or even one specifically for their mod. The onus on supporting the latter is up to the person making it and for the former well. Yes, for reasons I've mentioned earlier the HRP wouldn't work well with their mod. Mostly due to them using custom assets.

However, I will never condone inflicting bodily harm on someone just because they had the audacity to use do something that's not authorized.

So let's say someone wanted to hit me in the mouth with a board with a nail in it for something I did on my computer. I wouldn't just sit there and take it. I'd get prepared somehow. To hell with threats of bodily violence. What the hell is this? The dark ages? That's a hell of a lot of agression for something so trivial.

On the other hand personally speaking I understand that if I modded a mod that I'm on my own and I certainly would not "complain" about it here if something went wrong. So don't lump me in with anyone who would.

One last thing, how do we know the creators of all the games that get modded are perfectly OK with people modding their games? I think modding is a thorny issue if you are to get anal about how a game or mod is meant to be played. Some people think even changing the FOV is off the table as it changes how the game was intended to look for example.

[Tetsuo]

Forge, on 02 April 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

double edit: and the assumption about a certain individual having a pathological hatred for hrp is completely unfounded.

Oh, really? Here's a direct quote, no paraphrasing.

Gambini said:

Jesus! No HRP, even if it´s expressly designed for this particular mod! You people just don´t get it. We dont want models, lights nor Hi-Res textures in our mod.

That's the response to my perfectly reasonable first response to this. I see nothing but a pathological hatred for HRP stuff in this.

BTW, I'm not going to play that mod at all. All this drama has turned me off from it, thanks. Sometimes ideological stuff drains out the fun from gaming.

[Forge]

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

That's the response to my perfectly reasonable first response to this. I see nothing but a pathological hatred for HRP stuff in this.

he's referring to one mod that he's part of and it's not intended for use with hrp. but it never fails that some person will use the hrp against recommendations and then complain when the mod doesn't work right. so he has reason to be cynical about the hrp under this context.
so you take that one little slice and apply it to his entire attitude?
you're quite mistaken. while he's not a huge fan he has shown his approval when someone actually uses it right and makes it look good.

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

So let's say someone wanted to hit me in the mouth with a board with a nail in it for something I did on my computer. I wouldn't just sit there and take it. I'd get prepared somehow. To hell with threats of bodily violence. What the hell is this? The dark ages?

i think the cheese has slipped off your cracker if you seriously think a person is going to show up at your door holding a board with a nail in it.
it's an analogy for being told to shut the fuck up

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

BTW, I'm not going to play that mod at all. All this drama has turned me off from it, thanks.

probably for the best, you'd be first on the list of hrp & polymer users complaining that it doesn't work right