[Aristotle Gumball]

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 05:01 AM, said:

The real slap in the face would be 3DR winning the lawsuit. Would take too much time though, so probably wouldn't worth it, at least not now.


Hardly lol

Spoiler

The secret is simple: lack of good English skills. Devs are using various English words mainly because it sounds cool, though sometimes there are some references here and there, not too often.

On an unrelated note it's time to get a bit autistic.

Spoiler

Been looking through various English imageboards and it seems like Ion Maiden threads are always full of shitty posts, with people talking non-stop about how much the game is pozzed or that it was made by SJW, most of the time people are referencing that very same 3DR blogpost about Bombshell design from 90s which they called "a bit embarrassing looking with 2018 glasses" with some other sentences about sexualization being a problem nowadays in general to prove this, all over again (I always forget about it). Another reason they bring that up of course is to prove that Shelly was censored or that she simply is a feminist icon and other shit alike that was already mentioned before. People don't even talk about the game itself or even the character itself, as in about VA work or design more in-depth when they discuss the topic.

The reason I brought this up is that it seems like it's impossible for good Ion Maiden threads to exist on imageboards. I don't think even actually pozzed games had it worse compared to IM, ironically.

Now, I kind of agree with xMobilemux and other people when it comes to VA work, design and most importantly when it comes to personality, in a sense that it could be improved a bit. It's not terrible and definitely is better compared to many western female characters, but still lacking. I don't know, just look at Bayonetta, for example, and compare her to Shelly. My main problem is that she's quite forgettable, mostly due to her personality or rather lack of it, even though she has a backstory that is mostly related to her work. When a character's traits are only being strong and confident, such character is quite empty. I hope she'll get more traits, especially feminine ones, at least typical ones that are often used to write women characters properly and make them look different from men. Usually writers tend to make them flirty, sexy, bitchy or cunty at the same time, because these are simple feminine traits.

Some people may say that this is a FPS game and all, but this is not an excuse. For example, the character on my avatar is from a fighting game (where according to people story doesn't matter as well), she is a very strong lying cunt and is an evil psychopath bitch (that also has anger issues) who is very feminine at the same time and loves to manipulate people or just play them in general, she of course hides her true self and pretends to be sweet, kind and innocent girl to fuck with people, on top of that she looks like a rock star and has shitton of various references to music. This came from the top of my head and I could probably talk about more if I played the games now and read some lore.

It doesn't surprise me when some people call Shelly a female Duke Nukem, it is related to this personality problem too. Shelly doesn't feel like she's a face of her game because of weak personality and lack of defining traits, in fact if you remove her from the game or just replace her with someone else, it won't make the game lacking. Now, for example, even if you remove some characters from various fighting games, it wouldn't be the same anymore. The worst case of course is when devs replace majority of old characters by crappy, uninspiring characters instead in sequels, something people absolutely hate, though people hate uninspiring characters in fighting games general, the problem is relevant to this day.

re: autism - I voiced the same concerns, but judging by the trailer, it looks like they'll have a bit more story in this game than something like Duke 3D. So maybe the strength of the protagonist doesn't have to carry the whole game. I'm hoping it's like that.

And I dunno, "Ion Fury" sounds like two edgy words crammed together, but I get that it was near the best option available. Had to keep the Ion part I guess, for familiarity, only now it just doesn't make any sense. That's why I said it sounded like those Japanese games. Lol @ "Melty Blood Actress Again".

[Forge]

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 05:01 AM, said:

most importantly when it comes to personality, in a sense that it could be improved a bit. It's not terrible and definitely is better compared to many western female characters, but still lacking.

My main problem is that she's quite forgettable, mostly due to her personality or rather lack of it, even though she has a backstory that is mostly related to her work. When a character's traits are only being strong and confident, such character is quite empty. I hope she'll get more traits, especially feminine ones

Have a cutscene at the beginning. The antagonist kicks young Shelly's puppy into traffic. A tear rolls down Shelly's cheek. Start game.

there.

Master O, on 12 July 2019 - 05:31 AM, said:

Voidpoint has to spoof Iron Maiden's rapacious lawyers in some way, either in Ion Fury or a future FPS they make.

the hanging lawyer sprite from duke3d in an office with a sign outside, IMH & son.

[Zaxx]

Master O, on 12 July 2019 - 05:31 AM, said:

Voidpoint has to spoof Iron Maiden's rapacious lawyers in some way, either in Ion Fury or a future FPS they make.

They should just put an interactable jukebox into the game that is visually representing Iron Maiden somehow and when you interact with it Shelly says something like "plays no music... for legal reasons".

[Sledgehammer]

thricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

judging by the trailer, it looks like they'll have a bit more story in this game than something like Duke 3D. So maybe the strength of the protagonist doesn't have to carry the whole game. I'm hoping it's like that.

A game where protag has to carry the whole game is a bad game, to be honest (assuming by strength you mean the character itself, not literal strength). Shelly with good personality wouldn't make the rest of the game bad or overshadow it since the rest in Ion Maiden itself is pretty much great, it has great level design, guns, interactivity, etc. It's kind of the same thing with fighting games where you need both good gameplay with competent mechanics along with good characters that don't lack in design or personality.

With improved and memorable protag Ion Maiden/Bombshell may as well become a strong 3DR franchise, something more than a simple Duke Nukem inspiration, kind of like what happened to Fallout series, the first game was supposed to be a sequel to Wasteland, for example. For now I kind of have a mixing feelings about it personally. Hopefully Shelly will shine in the finished game and will be memorable, unique protag. In Bombshell she was handled worse for sure, even though the writers tried really hard to do something with her (and still failed, maybe it takes really too much efforts to write a good women character).

thricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 06:19 AM, said:

Lol @ "Melty Blood Actress Again".

Yeah, and it is one of the best fighting games out there that still has dedicated community (on PC) and I think they did tourneys for Melty too, despite the fact that Melty is quite old game.

Forge, on 12 July 2019 - 06:30 AM, said:

Have a cutscene at the beginning. The antagonist kicks young Shelly's puppy into traffic. A tear rolls down Shelly's cheek. Start game.

there.

Pretty good start, now give her more traits that would reflect in her oneliners too and we're set, dog lover trait would mix well with such storyline.

[MusicallyInspired]

I think she's fine voice and all. As memorable as Duke or Lo Wang? No. At least not yet. Those characters were so over the top, though. How could Shelly be way over the top in her own way? I just think it's unnecessary. I feel like this is a more serious game than those two and to push too much over the top would make the whole thing zany and silly. Might be more memorable, but not in a good way IMO. The game will stand on its own. Does Shelly really need to be the face of the game like Duke or Shadow Warrior or Serious Sam? Just because she has one-liners?

[Radar]

Shelly is one of the better female leads of 2019, which is why I don't complain about her too much. But she's certainly not built on the image of great female leads of the past. It is so ironic how left-wing influence, which was supposed to empower female leads, has resulted in them having completely forgettable personalities. They are simply women who act like men.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 07:06 AM, said:

A game where protag has to carry the whole game is a bad game, to be honest (assuming by strength you mean the character itself, not literal strength). Shelly with good personality wouldn't make the rest of the game bad or overshadow it since the rest in Ion Maiden itself is pretty much great, it has great level design, guns, interactivity, etc. It's kind of the same thing with fighting games where you need both good gameplay with competent mechanics along with good characters that don't lack in design or personality.

Yeah, I wasn't saying that having a good protagonist would hurt a game that has more of a story focus. When I say carry the game, I meant like Duke in DN3D. He can't have a bland, unrecognizable personality because the game rests on him being this maelstrom of activity. Ion Fury looks like (I have no idea how it'll actually be) a balance between protagonist, antagonist, perhaps other characters (?) and storytelling (including environmental storytelling), so perhaps it'll all make sense once we actually play it...

[Sledgehammer]

MusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 07:28 AM, said:

Those characters were so over the top, though. How could Shelly be way over the top in her own way? I just think it's unnecessary. I feel like this is a more serious game than those two and to push too much over the top would make the whole thing zany and silly.

MusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 07:28 AM, said:

Just because she has one-liners?

There is more to it which is why I mentioned Bayo or even fighting games (along with the character on my avatar pic). I don't think she has to be too funny/ridiculous or something like that. I don't even think she has to be stereotypical modern badass hero.

[SonicB00M]

My only problem with Shelly is her portrait in the HUD. She looks very tame and far from the badass in the key art. Not really an action hero... more like a receptionist.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Gaydar, on 12 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

Shelly is one of the better female leads of 2019, which is why I don't complain about her too much. But she's certainly not built on the image of great female leads of the past. It is so ironic how left-wing influence, which was supposed to empower female leads, has resulted in them having completely forgettable personalities. They are simply women who act like men.

I agree with you generally, but in Shelly's case it makes sense. Ever met a female cop? They tend to be quite butch in my experience.

[Truck Stop Santa Claus]

I'm just glad she doesn't have the hair shaved on one side
That shit doesn't look good on any one, guy or gal

[Sledgehammer]

Gaydar, on 12 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

They are simply women who act like men.

It's not even that. I would say that men characters nowadays are usually lacking too when made by supposedly amateur or just talentless writers. Nowadays almost every character in western media has this typical "strong, smart, overconfident" pseudo-personality template, especially comic book superheroes that have no flaws either which is extremely boring. I don't know, maybe the reason is because writers want people to self-insert into their characters, maybe this is why those characters are empty and bland.

thricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 07:41 AM, said:

When I say carry the game, I meant like Duke in DN3D. He can't have a bland, unrecognizable personality because the game rests on him being this maelstrom of activity.

While I definitely think without Duke the game would be lacking, the game on its own would still have a lot of good strong points that is level design, interactivity and atmosphere, though Duke greatly contribute to this, I agree. In that aspect I feel like Ion Maiden is better which is one of the reasons I feel like the game wouldn't change much if you replace Shelly.

thricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 07:49 AM, said:

Ever met a female cop? They tend to be quite butch in my experience.

They're still humans and most importantly women. If we go into real life territory, as a military I have an experience with military women (including foreign women), while some women do appear like this, they still have human and most importantly typical women traits. Some of them can be also very sweet while quite strong, in a women way strong (not the way talentless hacks are writing them by making them acting like men), hard to explain by words, you have to experience it yourself maybe. The closest I can get is Bayonetta. lol

[Aristotle Gumball]

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

They're still humans

Not disputing that, lol. I am only saying that some women actually are very close to men in their thinking and behavior and women in the armed forces definitely have those traits. Of course they still have emotions, just as men do.

We'll have to wait and see how much of that is portrayed in the game or if it's even needed...

[MusicallyInspired]

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 07:46 AM, said:

There is more to it which is why I mentioned Bayo or even fighting games (along with the character on my avatar pic). I don't think she has to be too funny/ridiculous or something like that. I don't even think she has to be stereotypical modern badass hero.

Bayo is highly sexualized as an alternative though. I just don't think she really needs a personality. At least any more than she has. The story of the game will probably take that aspect further anyway. Duke's attitude was such a huge part of Duke but I think recapturing that in Ion Fury is unnecessary. We're just used to that I think. But Amid Evil doesn't have a protagonist with a personality. Or Duskdude for that matter. Yes, Shelly talks but that doesn't mean it has to be the same as Duke or Lo Wang. I'm not talking comedy when I say that. I just think she's fine as is.

SonicB00M, on 12 July 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

My only problem with Shelly is her portrait in the HUD. She looks very tame and far from the badass in the key art. Not really an action hero... more like a receptionist.

I disagree. I think she looks great. Much better than the older version from Bombshell. It was one of the highlights for me when Ion Maiden was first unveiled, actually. That and the voice. I actually like this girl, whereas I couldn't stand the previous iteration and considering not all that much has changed that's saying something.

Truck Stop Santa Claus, on 12 July 2019 - 08:04 AM, said:

I'm just glad she doesn't have the hair shaved on one side
That shit doesn't look good on any one, guy or gal

Heck yes.

Sledgehammer, on 12 July 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

While I definitely think without Duke the game would be lacking, the game on its own would still have a lot of good strong points that is level design, interactivity and atmosphere, though Duke greatly contribute to this, I agree. In that aspect I feel like Ion Maiden is better which is one of the reasons I feel like the game wouldn't change much if you replace Shelly.

I agree. And I don't think there's anything really wrong with this.

Quote

They're still humans and most importantly women. If we go into real life territory, as a military I have an experience with military women (including foreign women), while some women do appear like this, they still have human and most importantly typical women traits. Some of them can be also very sweet while quite strong, in a women way strong (not the way talentless hacks are writing them by making them acting like men), hard to explain by words, you have to experience it yourself maybe. The closest I can get is Bayonetta. lol

I'm just really sick of how people can go on and on about "proper characterization" and "improving and advancing the art of storytelling"...I just don't care that much about story anymore. Period. It's getting too avante garde and obnoxious for me. It's a shooter. Just gimme a game with a likeable character like Shelly (hey I like her) and great gameplay and I'm good. I buy her attitude as its currently portrayed and I buy her as a worthy opponent who can defeat her enemies in the game. That's all I really need. I get that some games need better written female leads. That's fine. That's for another genre and another game, not this one. It's good. Just leave it.

[Sledgehammer]

MusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

Bayo is highly sexualized as an alternative though.

I wouldn't say highly sexualized (though it's not a bad thing), it's a bit more than that, there is an interesting interview with her designer Mari Shimazaki where she talks about Bayo. Anyway, while this "sexiness" too is a part of her character, she's really more than that. People like her not just because she's a sexy witch, she's memorable thanks to her personality too which isn't something too deep or pretentious. Without Bayo her game wouldn't be just the same and it also can't be said that Bayonetta is just a DMC rip-off or copypaste, wouldn't call her a female Dante either. Also, would you say you hate or don't like Bayo as a character?

MusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

But Amid Evil doesn't have a protagonist with a personality. Or Duskdude for that matter.

I don't think there is focus on protag in those two. Can't be said the same about Ion Maiden. Shelly is another reason why Ion Maiden as a FPS stands out of both of these games.

MusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'm just really sick of how people can go on and on about "proper characterization" and "improving and advancing the art of storytelling"...I just don't care that much about story anymore. Period. It's getting too avante garde and obnoxious for me.

Don't give up, man, there is still a hope for at least semi-competent writing in video games or even in general. There are a lot of people who legitimately are not pretentious hipsters who want some "deep story" bullshit that is complete crap that you're talking about, for one this is not what I want personally. This is why I mentioned fighting games, the genre where writing is usually quite simple with some parts being a little bit deep, but not in pretentious kind of way that is very popular nowadays. In those games, much like in FPS, gameplay is the most important part, the same pretty much goes for action games like DMC or Bayonetta or other genres where gameplay comes the first, the story there is just a bonus. However, if we speak of character personality, those games still have simple and yet quite competently written characters that greatly add to the atmosphere in those games, the story can be meh though, but usually they put good efforts into writing the characters. Nothing wrong about asking for something like this.

As I mentioned, I find Shelly decent, but there is definitely a room for some improvements (something what the devs have to come up with themselves because a lot of suggestions I personally saw were crappy anyway), though her design is the least thing I'm concerned about, I think it's quite fine and my biggest complaint is lack of official art, they could do a lot artworks for announcements in general.

Spoiler

And it would be interesting to see sexy art with her too, you know, like Shelly in bikini since it's summer right now so it would suit well in such context.

[The Battlelord]

thricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

some women actually are very close to men in their thinking and behavior

I think that the genre of a person does not matter so much, is more about how some people are influenced by society or grew up in some particular situations.We think that a girl must grow up by playing with dolls and similar things to act like a sweety woman and mom in the future, then, what happens if she is free from the start and can choose things that she really likes?I mean, we are really sure that a girl, without any suggestion, will choose to dress in pink, 1496793 shoes, dolls etc?Same thing can be applied to men, am not sure that we will choose stuff "made for us" without somebody that says "hey, this is a doll and is made for girls, here, take this Action Man this is for boys, dude" .

ck3D, on 12 July 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

I may be nitpicking (which I feel lame about for a first post in this thread), but if you guys are even worried about the credibility of the translation to the point of even getting such little jokes correct, then I thought I'd let you know "odeur de police de porc" sounds slightly weird in French, especially the "police de porc" bit isn't quite correct - I think "police porcine" would be a more appropriate expression there. You could also replace "odeur" by "parfum" or "fragrance" for something more pseudo-sophisticated as odeur is literally smell, but Pig Cops probably smell so if anything that bit can totally make sense. Not that I'd expect anybody to care about fixing one little mistake in one joke texture though, and it's also kind of charming.

That's why comments can be important, i watched the trailer 6-7 times and i can't notice it.

[Aristotle Gumball]

The Battlelord, on 12 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think that the genre of a person does not matter so much, is more about how some people are influenced by society or grew up in some particular situations.We think that a girl must grow up by playing with dolls and similar things to act like a sweety woman and mom in the future, then, what happens if she is free from the start and can choose things that she really likes?I mean, we are really sure that a girl, without any suggestion, will choose to dress in pink, 1496793 shoes, dolls etc?Same thing can be applied to men, am not sure that we will choose stuff "made for us" without somebody that says "hey, this is a doll and is made for girls, here, take this Action Man this is for boys, dude" .

This is social constructivism. On average those differences you mention (girls play with dolls, boys with cars, etc) are biologically driven. Individually people will vary of course.

[Jimmy]

Gaydar, on 12 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

Shelly is one of the better female leads of 2019, which is why I don't complain about her too much. But she's certainly not built on the image of great female leads of the past. It is so ironic how left-wing influence, which was supposed to empower female leads, has resulted in them having completely forgettable personalities. They are simply women who act like men.

And they're not even good at acting like men.

I tend to agree that Shelly is a shitty character, Voidpoint has done their best to improve her for their game. But 3DR's whiny libtard baggage has definitely hurt perceptions of the game, while Voidpoint has very smartly kept their mouth shut about extraneous political tripe and tried to let the game speak for itself.

I'd like to see what Voidpoint could do with their own property. 3DR is terrible at public relations, which is ironic considering their obsession with it.

[xMobilemux]

Can those who actually like Shelly explain why you actually like her and why you think she's a good character?

Not having a go at anyone, I just want to know what they see that I don't.

[----]

I haven't played Bombshell and only a very little bit of Ion Maiden (first beta) and watched most trailers and gameplay footage without sound, so I don't know anything about her as a character.

I would have written her as a cynic (as said above, don't know if that is already the case) and her one-liners describe how (mentally) tiresome it is is to her to fight and kill all the enemies. To describe what I mean: in the original Star Wars princess Leia is very cynical about Luke and Han when they save her, but she is never telling anyone what a great person she thinks she is (that's what makes her work opposed to Holdo, for example).
For Ion Maiden I would have projected that cynism at the enemies.

It is no problem to fight all the countless enemies, but she makes no fuzz about that or herself but is cynical about the enemies and their agenda and the world and society in general.

Don't know why, that's just how I feel she should be from the gameplay.

[oasiz]

We're happy with the character, taking inspiration from terminator and robocop from example and putting our own spin on it.
I'd honestly just wait for the full version, preview is just a small subset of everything, there is quite little to work from compared to the full thing as many key events just simply don't exist there.
There are a lot of opportunities that are simply missing, just like trying to develop Duke based on first few levels only when a lot of the stuff he is known for happened in EP2/EP3.

Our goal is not to make her a part-time female Duke stand-in and with the same, this game isn't intended as a stand-in for "Duke Nukem 4D", but it doesn't mean that we don't care, we just want to make a cool build engine game that can stand on it's own. Although we're not denying heavy inspiration, coming from the d3d modding itself.
FYI, we practically just ignored 2016 Bombshell when it came to this character, aside from VA

Aanyway.. what I am saying here is that maybe wait a little more for the full game and you can better gauge then.

[MusicallyInspired]

xMobilemux, on 12 July 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

Can those who actually like Shelly explain why you actually like her and why you think she's a good character?

Not having a go at anyone, I just want to know what they see that I don't.

She's not overbearing or annoying to listen to and she's pleasing to the eyes (not in that way, I just happen to like her appearance so much better than Bombshell 2016's).

I also like that there's no obnoxious attitude or lines like "never send a man to do a woman's job" or anything like that. She just kicks butt, end of story. And I buy that she's as tough as gameplay suggests. I'm just not put off, that's what it comes down to.

[John Brown]

For me, it's a combination of gameplay overriding the character, and the character herself not necessarily being good, but being significantly better than what she used to be.

I'm of the opinion that a lot of "TOP 10 BEST GAMING CHARACTERS" are massively overrated, particularly characters like Doomguy or Gordon Freeman. They have no character value in their games whatsoever, but their games were good, so by extension, the player characters are winners by association. Ion Fury/Maiden/whatever, at least in its preview build and compared to all the countless retro FPS pretenders out there, is a good game. So for me personally, Shelly doesn't have to be a "good" character, she just has to be the body attached to the right hand that holds those weapons that shoot when I click left mouse. She occasionally has funny lines and really that's all I need.

Also, it's not that Shelly in her current incarnation is "good" rather than she's a hell of a lot better than she used to be. The original Bombshell reveal version of her was just awful. The version of her that actually made it to market in Bombshell 2016 was a little better but still boring, bland, and the few times she did speak, she had horrible lines that made me want to mute the game (and going to my above suggestion, being the lead heroine of a disappointing-at-best game did not help). In Ion Maiden's preview, I thought her lines where nowhere near as cringey as they were in Bombshell, at worst case they were just bland exposition.

I don't think she's a good character, but I do think she's a "good enough" character. I much prefer the 90's version of Shelly (or the Alien Armageddon version) but really I'm with MusicallyInspired, inoffensive seems the best way to put her.

[Forge]

judging by the small sampling in the preview campaing; Shelly is bland and milquetoast. Her lines are delivered with the authority of winning at canasta, instead of surviving shootouts.

Appearance is adequate & appropriate for the setting. A little dull, but better than the other end of the spectrum with 7.2 richter scale boob-physics & dental-floss short-shorts.

[Sledgehammer]

Can some of you guys post the new original artwork?

[MrFlibble]

Also will the press kit be updated? Would be nice to have all the brand-new screenshots in lossless quality - the JPEGs on the official site (and GOG and Steam) have all the usual artifacts including faded colours (most notably reds) and mosquito noise.

[Sledgehammer]

John Brown, on 13 July 2019 - 03:37 PM, said:

I don't think she's a good character, but I do think she's a "good enough" character. I much prefer the 90's version of Shelly (or the Alien Armageddon version) but really I'm with MusicallyInspired, inoffensive seems the best way to put her.

This attitude doesn't surprise me with the current state of the industry, I kind of feel the same way about certain western games too (just like about some Japanese games except for different reasons), but the main reason why I'd like to see a better improvement in that aspect if that's possible is because Voidpoint actually put good efforts and love into their game.

Though now that I think about it more, considering Bombshell belongs to 3DR and since they can do whatever they want with the character, perhaps it's fine the way it is, though compared to original Bombshell, Shelly in Ion Furry is a significant improvement and the game is still basically a demo version. It would be much better if Voidpoint came up with the original character they would own themselves and in any case, I hope Voidpoint make a better potential franchise with a strong character that won't be compared to others as a copy/rip-off that would be completely theirs.

[DavoX]

The press kit is this one, not the one posted a couple posts above.

https://drive.google...342TUpGvslxx9-G

[Sledgehammer]

Any chance to get PSD too for the second key art?

[MusicallyInspired]

Ah thank you. I was waiting for that.