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Ion Fury  "formerly Ion Maiden, launching August 15!"

User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#2911

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

Bayo is highly sexualized as an alternative though.

I wouldn't say highly sexualized (though it's not a bad thing), it's a bit more than that, there is an interesting interview with her designer Mari Shimazaki where she talks about Bayo. Anyway, while this "sexiness" too is a part of her character, she's really more than that. People like her not just because she's a sexy witch, she's memorable thanks to her personality too which isn't something too deep or pretentious. Without Bayo her game wouldn't be just the same and it also can't be said that Bayonetta is just a DMC rip-off or copypaste, wouldn't call her a female Dante either. Also, would you say you hate or don't like Bayo as a character?

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

But Amid Evil doesn't have a protagonist with a personality. Or Duskdude for that matter.

I don't think there is focus on protag in those two. Can't be said the same about Ion Maiden. Shelly is another reason why Ion Maiden as a FPS stands out of both of these games.

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 12 July 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

I'm just really sick of how people can go on and on about "proper characterization" and "improving and advancing the art of storytelling"...I just don't care that much about story anymore. Period. It's getting too avante garde and obnoxious for me.

Don't give up, man, there is still a hope for at least semi-competent writing in video games or even in general. There are a lot of people who legitimately are not pretentious hipsters who want some "deep story" bullshit that is complete crap that you're talking about, for one this is not what I want personally. This is why I mentioned fighting games, the genre where writing is usually quite simple with some parts being a little bit deep, but not in pretentious kind of way that is very popular nowadays. In those games, much like in FPS, gameplay is the most important part, the same pretty much goes for action games like DMC or Bayonetta or other genres where gameplay comes the first, the story there is just a bonus. However, if we speak of character personality, those games still have simple and yet quite competently written characters that greatly add to the atmosphere in those games, the story can be meh though, but usually they put good efforts into writing the characters. Nothing wrong about asking for something like this.

As I mentioned, I find Shelly decent, but there is definitely a room for some improvements (something what the devs have to come up with themselves because a lot of suggestions I personally saw were crappy anyway), though her design is the least thing I'm concerned about, I think it's quite fine and my biggest complaint is lack of official art, they could do a lot artworks for announcements in general.
Spoiler


This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 12 July 2019 - 09:46 AM

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#2912

View Postthricecursed, on 12 July 2019 - 08:16 AM, said:

some women actually are very close to men in their thinking and behavior



I think that the genre of a person does not matter so much, is more about how some people are influenced by society or grew up in some particular situations.We think that a girl must grow up by playing with dolls and similar things to act like a sweety woman and mom in the future, then, what happens if she is free from the start and can choose things that she really likes?I mean, we are really sure that a girl, without any suggestion, will choose to dress in pink, 1496793 shoes, dolls etc?Same thing can be applied to men, am not sure that we will choose stuff "made for us" without somebody that says "hey, this is a doll and is made for girls, here, take this Action Man this is for boys, dude" https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif.


View Postck3D, on 12 July 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

I may be nitpicking (which I feel lame about for a first post in this thread), but if you guys are even worried about the credibility of the translation to the point of even getting such little jokes correct, then I thought I'd let you know "odeur de police de porc" sounds slightly weird in French, especially the "police de porc" bit isn't quite correct - I think "police porcine" would be a more appropriate expression there. You could also replace "odeur" by "parfum" or "fragrance" for something more pseudo-sophisticated as odeur is literally smell, but Pig Cops probably smell so if anything that bit can totally make sense. Not that I'd expect anybody to care about fixing one little mistake in one joke texture though, and it's also kind of charming.



That's why comments can be important, i watched the trailer 6-7 times and i can't notice it.
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#2913

View PostThe Battlelord, on 12 July 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

I think that the genre of a person does not matter so much, is more about how some people are influenced by society or grew up in some particular situations.We think that a girl must grow up by playing with dolls and similar things to act like a sweety woman and mom in the future, then, what happens if she is free from the start and can choose things that she really likes?I mean, we are really sure that a girl, without any suggestion, will choose to dress in pink, 1496793 shoes, dolls etc?Same thing can be applied to men, am not sure that we will choose stuff "made for us" without somebody that says "hey, this is a doll and is made for girls, here, take this Action Man this is for boys, dude" https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif.


This is social constructivism. On average those differences you mention (girls play with dolls, boys with cars, etc) are biologically driven. Individually people will vary of course.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#2914

View PostGaydar, on 12 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

Shelly is one of the better female leads of 2019, which is why I don't complain about her too much. But she's certainly not built on the image of great female leads of the past. It is so ironic how left-wing influence, which was supposed to empower female leads, has resulted in them having completely forgettable personalities. They are simply women who act like men.

And they're not even good at acting like men.

I tend to agree that Shelly is a shitty character, Voidpoint has done their best to improve her for their game. But 3DR's whiny libtard baggage has definitely hurt perceptions of the game, while Voidpoint has very smartly kept their mouth shut about extraneous political tripe and tried to let the game speak for itself.

I'd like to see what Voidpoint could do with their own property. 3DR is terrible at public relations, which is ironic considering their obsession with it.

This post has been edited by BlitZ: 12 July 2019 - 11:02 AM

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User is offline   xMobilemux 

#2915

Can those who actually like Shelly explain why you actually like her and why you think she's a good character?

Not having a go at anyone, I just want to know what they see that I don't.
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User is offline   ---- 

#2916

I haven't played Bombshell and only a very little bit of Ion Maiden (first beta) and watched most trailers and gameplay footage without sound, so I don't know anything about her as a character.

I would have written her as a cynic (as said above, don't know if that is already the case) and her one-liners describe how (mentally) tiresome it is is to her to fight and kill all the enemies. To describe what I mean: in the original Star Wars princess Leia is very cynical about Luke and Han when they save her, but she is never telling anyone what a great person she thinks she is (that's what makes her work opposed to Holdo, for example).
For Ion Maiden I would have projected that cynism at the enemies.

It is no problem to fight all the countless enemies, but she makes no fuzz about that or herself but is cynical about the enemies and their agenda and the world and society in general.

Don't know why, that's just how I feel she should be from the gameplay.

This post has been edited by fuegerstef: 12 July 2019 - 11:59 PM

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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#2917

We're happy with the character, taking inspiration from terminator and robocop from example and putting our own spin on it.
I'd honestly just wait for the full version, preview is just a small subset of everything, there is quite little to work from compared to the full thing as many key events just simply don't exist there.
There are a lot of opportunities that are simply missing, just like trying to develop Duke based on first few levels only when a lot of the stuff he is known for happened in EP2/EP3.

Our goal is not to make her a part-time female Duke stand-in and with the same, this game isn't intended as a stand-in for "Duke Nukem 4D", but it doesn't mean that we don't care, we just want to make a cool build engine game that can stand on it's own. Although we're not denying heavy inspiration, coming from the d3d modding itself.
FYI, we practically just ignored 2016 Bombshell when it came to this character, aside from VA :D

Aanyway.. what I am saying here is that maybe wait a little more for the full game and you can better gauge then.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#2918

View PostxMobilemux, on 12 July 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

Can those who actually like Shelly explain why you actually like her and why you think she's a good character?

Not having a go at anyone, I just want to know what they see that I don't.


She's not overbearing or annoying to listen to and she's pleasing to the eyes (not in that way, I just happen to like her appearance so much better than Bombshell 2016's).

I also like that there's no obnoxious attitude or lines like "never send a man to do a woman's job" or anything like that. She just kicks butt, end of story. And I buy that she's as tough as gameplay suggests. I'm just not put off, that's what it comes down to.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 13 July 2019 - 02:53 PM

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User is offline   John Brown 

#2919

For me, it's a combination of gameplay overriding the character, and the character herself not necessarily being good, but being significantly better than what she used to be.

I'm of the opinion that a lot of "TOP 10 BEST GAMING CHARACTERS" are massively overrated, particularly characters like Doomguy or Gordon Freeman. They have no character value in their games whatsoever, but their games were good, so by extension, the player characters are winners by association. Ion Fury/Maiden/whatever, at least in its preview build and compared to all the countless retro FPS pretenders out there, is a good game. So for me personally, Shelly doesn't have to be a "good" character, she just has to be the body attached to the right hand that holds those weapons that shoot when I click left mouse. She occasionally has funny lines and really that's all I need.

Also, it's not that Shelly in her current incarnation is "good" rather than she's a hell of a lot better than she used to be. The original Bombshell reveal version of her was just awful. The version of her that actually made it to market in Bombshell 2016 was a little better but still boring, bland, and the few times she did speak, she had horrible lines that made me want to mute the game (and going to my above suggestion, being the lead heroine of a disappointing-at-best game did not help). In Ion Maiden's preview, I thought her lines where nowhere near as cringey as they were in Bombshell, at worst case they were just bland exposition.

I don't think she's a good character, but I do think she's a "good enough" character. I much prefer the 90's version of Shelly (or the Alien Armageddon version) but really I'm with MusicallyInspired, inoffensive seems the best way to put her.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#2920

judging by the small sampling in the preview campaing; Shelly is bland and milquetoast. Her lines are delivered with the authority of winning at canasta, instead of surviving shootouts.

Appearance is adequate & appropriate for the setting. A little dull, but better than the other end of the spectrum with 7.2 richter scale boob-physics & dental-floss short-shorts.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#2921

Can some of you guys post the new original artwork?

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 16 July 2019 - 05:17 AM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#2922

Also will the press kit be updated? Would be nice to have all the brand-new screenshots in lossless quality - the JPEGs on the official site (and GOG and Steam) have all the usual artifacts including faded colours (most notably reds) and mosquito noise.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#2923

View PostJohn Brown, on 13 July 2019 - 03:37 PM, said:

I don't think she's a good character, but I do think she's a "good enough" character. I much prefer the 90's version of Shelly (or the Alien Armageddon version) but really I'm with MusicallyInspired, inoffensive seems the best way to put her.

This attitude doesn't surprise me with the current state of the industry, I kind of feel the same way about certain western games too (just like about some Japanese games except for different reasons), but the main reason why I'd like to see a better improvement in that aspect if that's possible is because Voidpoint actually put good efforts and love into their game.

Though now that I think about it more, considering Bombshell belongs to 3DR and since they can do whatever they want with the character, perhaps it's fine the way it is, though compared to original Bombshell, Shelly in Ion Furry is a significant improvement and the game is still basically a demo version. It would be much better if Voidpoint came up with the original character they would own themselves and in any case, I hope Voidpoint make a better potential franchise with a strong character that won't be compared to others as a copy/rip-off that would be completely theirs.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 16 July 2019 - 08:55 AM

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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#2924

The press kit is this one, not the one posted a couple posts above.

https://drive.google...342TUpGvslxx9-G
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#2925

Any chance to get PSD too for the second key art?
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#2926

Ah thank you. I was waiting for that.
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User is offline   Mark 

#2927

View PostForge, on 13 July 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

...Her lines are delivered with the authority of winning at canasta...

:dukecigar:

This post has been edited by Mark: 16 July 2019 - 10:10 AM

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #2928

I think you guys will be happier with the character in the full version. I wrote most of the dialogue myself and didn't run it by anyone for neutering approval before having it recorded this time.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#2929

Don't forget about the story (text or other necessary stuff) itself too.
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#2930

I have faith in your abilities.
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User is offline   Mark 

#2931

I don't have any issues with her dialog and delivery. I just quoted Forge's post because it struck me as funny because canasta is an old card game and I wondered if anyone else recognized it or had to do a Google search.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#2932

I remember some old person in some old movie mentioning Canasta as if it was something old. lol
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#2933

View PostMark, on 16 July 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

I don't have any issues with her dialog and delivery. I just quoted Forge's post because it struck me as funny because canasta is an old card game and I wondered if anyone else recognized it or had to do a Google search.


I know what it is, and I'm a young whipper-snapper. Well, I used to know what it is; I played it with my grandma about 15 years ago and have forgotten the rules :dukecigar:
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User is online   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!

#2934

Can't wait to get into the map editor. I won't play the game till I investigate all the textures and sprites.

This post has been edited by brullov: 17 July 2019 - 01:13 AM

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#2935

View Postbrullov, on 17 July 2019 - 01:13 AM, said:

Can't wait to get into the map editor. I won't play the game till I investigate all the textures and sprites.

Who isn't
I hope that it brings new life to Build Engine modding
Tired of Doom builder over shadowing us
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#2936

But I'm going to play the game through though at lest once first :dukecigar:
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#2937

The problem is that mapster’s keyboard-driven interface comes with a steep learning curve that serves as a barrier to people starting mapping. Everything done so far to improve the interface has been like stacking layers of bandaids on top of each other.

It probably doesn’t help that Ion Fury’s levels are incredibly intricate and detailed. It’d take people years to be able to understand the engine and editor well enough to pull off that kind of design, and more importantly, to become fast enough to build it within a relatively short period.
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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #2938

View PostMicky C, on 17 July 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

The problem is that mapster’s keyboard-driven interface comes with a steep learning curve that serves as a barrier to people starting mapping. Everything done so far to improve the interface has been like stacking layers of bandaids on top of each other.

It probably doesn’t help that Ion Fury’s levels are incredibly intricate and detailed. It’d take people years to be able to understand the engine and editor well enough to pull off that kind of design, and more importantly, to become fast enough to build it within a relatively short period.

You can still do Duke3D-style levels in IF, though. Most of the effects originally used in Duke3D work exactly the same as they always did and nothing prevents anyone from making maps that only use those simpler effects.

Remember, AHB and Levelord made the levels in World Tour using Mapster32 and it had been 20 years since they had touched the original DOS version of the editor. I think you are underestimating what people who are determined to make something can do.

You aren't wrong about the interface in general, however. Maybe if IF sells well enough that making another game on the engine seems worthwhile we can put some of the revenue toward a UI rework.
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#2939

Mapster32 is still less buggy than Hammer to me :dukecigar:
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#2940

View PostTerminX, on 17 July 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

Remember, AHB and Levelord made the levels in World Tour using Mapster32 and it had been 20 years since they had touched the original DOS version of the editor. I think you are underestimating what people who are determined to make something can do.


Don't get me wrong, the current interface is fine if you're familiar with it; keyboard shortcuts are faster than a purely mouse-driven interface and always will be. What I'm not underestimating is the tendency for generation Z to avoid software that isn't incredibly intuitive and self-explanatory, as well as give up on things after a short period of time https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif

Of course, young whipper snappers aren't necessarily the target audience of IF, rather people who are craving the attributes of old-school shooters such as good level design among others. Hopefully it will draw in younger people too, since as Voidpoint has said, you're simply making a good game that happens to run on the build engine, as opposed to an explicit 'build engine shooter'.

After all, if the mapping community is going to be sustainable long-term, we'll need to constantly be drawing in new young mappers. We can do this by emphasizing eduke's strengths over more modern engines, namely the relative simplicity and speed of the mapping process. We'll need to make the entry as smooth and painless as possible however.

View PostTerminX, on 17 July 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

You aren't wrong about the interface in general, however. Maybe if IF sells well enough that making another game on the engine seems worthwhile we can put some of the revenue toward a UI rework.


I sure hope it's successful enough for an entirely new game after IF. The trailer showed that the game is on a whole other level compared to the preview, showing amazing interactivity and set-pieces as well as fantastic and interesting-looking levels. If that doesn't create sales, I don't know what will.

This post has been edited by Micky C: 17 July 2019 - 07:18 PM

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