[Hank]

Trooper Dan, on 03 April 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm going to pick on this post in a different way. Rather than challenge the assertion that the levels are linear, I'm going to challenge the conclusion that this reduces replay value. I don't agree that replay value is necessarily linked with linearity. Linear games can have a lot of replay value, and very open games can lack replay value. Replay value is more a function of the core gameplay loop being fun, combined with the possibility of improving at the game in various ways (playing faster, getting more or better items, or just executing it more skillfully).

to in bold.
I read some of the hints of Ion Maiden. Aiming/shooting at the head gives better kills. So I am trying to go through this level using only the pistol (Loverboy?) Lot's of fun, and replay value in my books.

As for the secrets, I found 2/3. Hours played so far, 12. I'm hooked.

[MusicallyInspired]

Lol I love you guys.

[TerminX]

Google keeps "correcting" Ion Maiden to Iron Maiden, so I thought to myself "how can I create links on a bunch of pages with the text 'Ion Maiden'?"

Who knows if it will have any effect...

[OpenMaw]

TerminX, on 03 April 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

Google keeps "correcting" Ion Maiden to Iron Maiden, so I thought to myself "how can I create links on a bunch of pages with the text 'Ion Maiden'?"

Who knows if it will have any effect...

Ion Maiden Ion Maiden Ion Maiden.

Just gotta pump the name into the tubes of the internet. Eventually Google will get it. On that day people will punch in "Iron Maiden" and Google will say....



"DID YOU MEAN 'ION MAIDEN'?"

[NightFright]

In one year, Google will correct "Iron Maiden" to "Ion Maiden". It's inevitable.

[necroslut]

MusicallyInspired, on 03 April 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

<rant incoming> [...]

Indeed, the idea that players "deserve" 100% is destructive. If you have a hangup making it impossible for you to NOT complete EVERYTHING, then that's a problem you have and you should try to deal with that instead of trying to force the world to adapt to your issues, you SJW. Obsessive-compulsive-completionists suck.

[Zaxx]

necroslut, on 04 April 2018 - 02:17 AM, said:

Indeed, the idea that players "deserve" 100% is destructive.

Word but the problem is that players in this day and age are conditioned to be completionists because AAA titles nowadays are all about "content" and not about gameplay. You fire up some open world game like Assassin's Creed and you'll quickly notice that the gameplay itself is shallow and you're doing the same things over and over again because the point is not to make an enjoyable gameplay experience but rather to create a serviceable gameplay loop that gets expanded by dangling shiny objects before the player. You're not playing those games because you're having a super enjoyable time with them, you're playing them because you're addicted to the instant gratification of "finding content", if it was about the gameplay you'd get bored and leave after an hour.

Now tell that audience that all secrets are not meant to be found on a first playthrough in a classic FPS and they'll don't know what the hell you're talking about. Finding a new secret after years in a classic shooter is a magical feeling but the retarded "consumers" of today's AAA market will never understand that.

[MusicallyInspired]

EDIT: Original post removed. I don't do double negatives good.

I'm an obsessive-compulsive completionist, but I like to earn it.

[MrFlibble]

MusicallyInspired, on 03 April 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

There's a puzzle in King's Quest 1 where you have to get to the cloud world to get a treasure chest from a giant.

Spoiler

There are two ways to get there. Both involve talking to the same character. You have to guess a gnome's name and if you get it wrong he gives you a key to a magic door which leads to a cavern with a stairway to the cloudland. If you guess it right he gives you magic beans which you plant and which grow into a giant beanstalk so you can climb to cloudland. The obvious answer is "Rumplestiltskin", however that's not correct. The game does let you know that you're on the right track with your line of thinking, though. The correct solution to the puzzle is hinted at with a note you find in a witch's cottage in the forest which seems to be there for no reason that just reads "sometimes it is wise to think backwards". So if you have the forward thinking to connect the clue with that particular puzzle you may figure that all you have to do is type "Rumplestiltskin" backwards. But that's not correct either (but, again, the game hints that you are on the right track). The correct solution is to write out the whole alphabet on paper, then write out the whole alphabet again underneath but backwards, then match the letters for the name "Rumplestiltskin" in the backwards alphabet which is some unintelligible mess of consonants and vowels.

I've never played any King's Quest games and I'm generally not a fan of the adventure genre, but right now my respect for Roberta Williams just jumped to like 500% [/offtopic]

[NNC]

To clarify things, I'm not against secrets. In fact, I love secrets. They are one of the many reasons I love Build-era FPS games. I also never said player deserves 100%.

I just said finding secrets (or even more so: BEATING secrets) shouldn't hinder your original campaign. When you have to push a chair from one side of the map to the other side, and granted, it's very easy to screw things up, and your reward is not that big, it's not fun anymore, but an annoying micro-management which can ruin many people's experience. Also I don't know secrets from any of the original Build games where you can die as easily as in the platforming secret in the office building. Platforming never worked well in FPS in my opinion.

For me a great secret place is like the one in Warp Factor. A hidden button that opens a door somewhere else. It also leads to a surprise place, so your reward is really high. There are little effort secrets as well with little reward, those should be there for satisfaction to the players.

Also you shouldn't forget this is a commercial release, so it shouldn't be treated as a gift to the community, and something like "completists suck" opinion is not helpful at all here. We should really tell now every single nitpick we don't like in my opinion, that will make the game better in the final release.

[Sanek]

NightFright, on 03 April 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

In one year, Google will correct "Iron Maiden" to "Ion Maiden". It's inevitable.

When I first read the game's title, I immediately thought that it was a terrible name for a game (from the commercial standpoint), since the random people will not be able to even find the game if they'll google it . On the other hand, the game have it's target audience; I don't think that people will play it unless they enjoyed simillar games.

Btw, the russian version of Google show the Ion Maiden without any corrections.


EDIT: On the contrary, Yandex (the premiere russian searcher) didn't show up Ion Maiden at all. It corrects the "typo" automatically.

[MusicallyInspired]

Nancsi, on 04 April 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

I just said finding secrets (or even more so: BEATING secrets) shouldn't hinder your original campaign.

But it....doesn't.

Quote

When you have to push a chair from one side of the map to the other side, and granted, it's very easy to screw things up, and your reward is not that big, it's not fun anymore, but an annoying micro-management which can ruin many people's experience.

Speak for yourself. And that's not necessary to complete the game. This is a secret. You don't want to go through it, don't do it. I like earning my rewards, thank you. Even if it takes a difficult challenge to receive. You must not like games like Super Meat Boy very much do you? Finding some secrets in Super Metroid is another good example.

Quote

Also I don't know secrets from any of the original Build games where you can die as easily as in the platforming secret in the office building. Platforming never worked well in FPS in my opinion.

Which secret are you talking about?

Spoiler

The one where you jump out the window from the bathroom (I think) onto the adjacent balcony?

I got that on the second try. And only because the first time I wasn't 100% sure of the method. Once I died I understood immediately what I had to do instead and it was a cakewalk. I know it's not that easy for everyone, but it can be.

Quote

For me a great secret place is like the one in Warp Factor. A hidden button that opens a door somewhere else. It also leads to a surprise place, so your reward is really high. There are little effort secrets as well with little reward, those should be there for satisfaction to the players.

Also you shouldn't forget this is a commercial release, so it shouldn't be treated as a gift to the community, and something like "completists suck" opinion is not helpful at all here. We should really tell now every single nitpick we don't like in my opinion, that will make the game better in the final release.

I agree that saying completionists suck is unproductive, but this can be a dangerous line of thinking. If everyone and their dog submitted their "picked nits" on refining (in their minds) the game to perfection, you end up with a bunch of conflicting feedback and, worst-case scenario, you end up with a homogenized soulless husk of something that was great. Feedback is certainly important, but it must be weighed with the original intentions of the design so it can be steered accordingly. Not all feedback is worth listening to. When Double-Fine was beta testing Broken Age to outside journalists and such one of the bits of feedback was that a certain section that repeated over and over and over again was monotonous and looked at as bad design, but that was the whole POINT of the sequence. To get you get sick of it and try to break the cycle. If Tim Schafer removed that the whole effect would have been lost as it was also a major part of the plot. But it would have been "more fun" for some players (who didn't get it) if it didn't exist. But the game would have been worse for it.

I love the secrets in this game, personally.

[Hank]

TerminX, on 03 April 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

Google keeps "correcting" Ion Maiden to Iron Maiden, so I thought to myself "how can I create links on a bunch of pages with the text 'Ion Maiden'?"

Who knows if it will have any effect...

Prolly stupid suggestion, but this is what I am.

How about "Ion" Maiden? If you type "Ion" Maiden, it forces the search engine to look for Ion.

I don't use Google Spy, below is DuckDuckGo

 IonMaidenHits.jpg (237.27K)
Number of downloads: 13

[Forge]

Hank, on 04 April 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

How about "Ion" Maiden? If you type "Ion" Maiden, it forces the search engine to look for Ion.

I don't use Google Spy, below is DuckDuckGo

google spy & bing spy have the same result as duck.
it defaults to iron maiden, but you can click, "show only 'ion maiden' results"

[OpenMaw]

The thing with secrets that is interesting to me when looking at Duke3D and Doom is that they do have a major effect on the gameplay in terms of the player's power. In Doom you can pick up the Chaingun and Rocket Launcher much earlier in E1 if you find the secrets. In fact you'll be so flush for ammo by the mid point of the first episode(s) you won't really need to worry about it.

Ion Maiden is actually quite similar to this. The secrets give you a lot of bowling bombs and the early game secret gives you access to the SMG which really helps you tear up some shit early on. So the balance of secrets is important in certain respects.

[Player Lin]

Commando Nukem, on 04 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

Ion Maiden is actually quite similar to this. The secrets give you a lot of bowling bombs and the early game secret gives you access to the SMG which really helps you tear up some shit early on. So the balance of secrets is important in certain respects.

While I like finding secrets and agree this, the only problem is I feel the ammo never run out at all, even I keep wasting them but I still near full on the end of level, not sure why... but I'm sure it won't just because too many secrets.

[Hank]

Forge, on 04 April 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

google spy & bing spy have the same result as duck.
it defaults to iron maiden, but you can click, "show only 'ion maiden' results"

Shit.
Last stupid suggestion +"Ion" Maiden, both Google and Bing show only Ion Maiden hits.

I guess, the old fashioned search methods are like me - relic of the past.

[necroslut]

Commando Nukem, on 04 April 2018 - 08:24 AM, said:

The thing with secrets that is interesting to me when looking at Duke3D and Doom is that they do have a major effect on the gameplay in terms of the player's power. In Doom you can pick up the Chaingun and Rocket Launcher much earlier in E1 if you find the secrets. In fact you'll be so flush for ammo by the mid point of the first episode(s) you won't really need to worry about it.

Ion Maiden is actually quite similar to this. The secrets give you a lot of bowling bombs and the early game secret gives you access to the SMG which really helps you tear up some shit early on. So the balance of secrets is important in certain respects.

This also gives more of a choice of how you want to play the game. The weapons in Ion Maiden - so far - aren't that interesting, but still... the choice of how you want to tackle the levels (using which weapons) increase replayability.

And even if I don't agree with'im, and I never found AMCTC very enjoyable at all, MickyC brought up some valid points about non-linearity and replayability... But non-linearing shit up will make levels less accessible and less fun the first few times around, so it's not really worth it. Unless you change it up on higher difficulties (sounds like a ton of work for little payoff) or with secrets.

[Hank]

Looking for secrets ...

[OpenMaw]

necroslut, on 04 April 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Unless you change it up on higher difficulties (sounds like a ton of work for little payoff) or with secrets.

Indeed. Though just as an aside, Quake actually did something similar depending on difficulty and/or Multiplayer mode being selected (certain walls were flagged to only show up in single player, and thus would open up paths in multiplayer to make the maps flow better.)

So it's not totally unheard of, but yeah it would be a lot of extra work for a marginal difference.

[KaijuTurtle]

Looks like Ion Maiden will be at PAX

I wonder if it’s just the preview campaign or if the convention goers will get an extra taste?

I really want one of those landyards

[TerminX]

There is a bit of extra content in the PAX build that will be released to owners of the game when PAX is over.

[Jblade]

you guys are too good to us

[Forge]

KaijuTurtle, on 04 April 2018 - 07:46 PM, said:

I really want one of those landyards

definitely

[Player Lin]

Hank, on 04 April 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

*"Press USE to scream" screenshot*

I'm early.
Don't hit me~ hmm, seems put my screenshot(s) in spoiler/using Steam screenshot function(could not display them directly) was bad idea...?

And...oasiz confessed that was his weird idea. lol

oasiz, on 01 March 2018 - 03:11 AM, said:

I think USE to scream was one of my weird ideas

===

Wow, can't wait when the PAX is over and that build releases!

[TerminX]

Jblade, on 04 April 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

you guys are too good to us

I can't wait to see what kind of crazy mods you guys come up with!

[DavoX]

TerminX, on 05 April 2018 - 02:20 AM, said:

I can't wait to see what kind of crazy mods you guys come up with!

To clarify, the mods thing is for full game. We're not releasing mod tools in this update

[DavoX]

Oh yes


https://twitter.com/...847875620614146

[NNC]

And a John Romero mod for Ion Maiden as the first official add-on pack.

[MusicallyInspired]

Pretty cool.