[Tea Monster]

Just letting people know that as everyone was complaining, I checked out Mark Skeltons model, and the gloves are removeable. I dont mind rebaking the hands, I just don't know when that will be due to other commitments.

[Mark]

Tea Monster, on 11 March 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

There are loads of tuts for Blender, and if you want to go 'to the darkside' ( jk! ) you can do what I did and pick up a student copy of Max with an educational email address. It's great for making stuff, as long as you are not using it professionally.

My older brother has been a college level CAD teacher for the last 20 years or so. He is proficient at the Autodesk line of programs including Max. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago he asked if I would be interested in helping him test a copy of the latest version along with a tutorial book before he bought more for his class, but I wasn't very interested in modeling or talented enough at the time and I wasn't able to give the program a real chance. Kinda wish I had.

[Tea Monster]

Never too late dude.

[NightFright]

Hi folks!

I wanted to agree with you on a release date for the next HRP - especially since I intended to do things better than last time when I just took the current SVN build and rushed it out. ^^

Was thinking about June 28 as a deadline for commits so we could aim for a July 1 release (or maybe even July 4, would be great for the US guys, besides having a cool release date). This should give you enough time to get anything into the HRP what you still want to finish, and the more we have until then, the better it will be.

Or course, this is just a suggestion, but IMHO it's better to still have some months to go rather than say we bring it for Easter already while a lot of things could be added if we waited a bit.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 21 March 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

I wanted to agree with you on a release date for the next HRP

Do you aim for an update pack or a full release?

[NightFright]

I do not feel responsible for update packs any more. As far as I can see, that is your part now. I am talking about a full release in all its shining glory, of course. ^^

[Tea Monster]

The slightly updated Cycloid will be complete. The gloveless Duke may or may not be done, depending on what I have on till then. As I said before, I'm stepping away from the project. Any other Duke-related thing I was previously involved in will have to be considered 'indefinitely postponed'. That's the Pistol hand, the Enforcer, PIg Cop, Liz Trooper and Fat Commander models, the LA skybox and the fire models.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 22 March 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I do not feel responsible for update packs any more. As far as I can see, that is your part now.

How's that? (Of course I could do it if there's demand.)

[NightFright]

With 100mb or more of updated contents, I think it's just a lot of effort. Also, these updates often contain duplicated stuff from existing HRP, so you end up with many identical files twice. I have always considered a full HRP being the cleaner "all-in-one" solution which should be preferred. So rather have longer breaks in between releases, but then at least you (should) see some differences.

Of course, it does not mean update packs do not make sense any more. If there are people who want it, then it's OK. In the end, if we are able to provide new full releases on a 6 or at least 12 months basis, no one will complain. And we still badly need folks to finally finish episodes 2 and 3 (not to mention ep.4), for those are the real milestones.

I would have loved to see Tea Monster's latest stuff which he cannot finish in the pack still. By now, we have a mix of first-generation models and top-notch stuff like the recently added Duke and Cycloid. Bringing everything up-to-date we got so far is a behemoth task and certainly not happening any time soon.

Guess we'll just see where we are around mid-June or so, but things are looking good so far. Right now it seems people are focussing on adding new maphacks for custom maps, so it cannot hurt to give them more time for that as well.

[Hendricks266]

IMO, if you want stuff so cutting-edge that you can't wait for a main HRP release and you're willing to go through the trouble of using update packs, you should learn how to use the SVN instead.

[NightFright]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean.

IIRC, there was even a solution with Project Bubblegum (download links are currently dead), a single exe file that could create an updated HRP for you directly from the SVN repository (among many other things). A shame it seems to be abandoned right now as the concept seemed really cool, and including it with future releases might be a great idea (if it works).
At least it looks like a better solution rather than manually compiling update packs again and again. I have always been a fan of the idea of giving people the chance to build their own packs whenever they want and with as little effort as possible.

Someone should drag this BrentNewland guy out of hiding, really...

[Hendricks266]

Please, not Project Bubblegum... why didn't it stay buried... so many problems... (I could address it in a longer post, but frankly, unless the thing is about to come back from the dead it isn't worth the effort.)

To address the specific functionality you mentioned, it tried to essentially be an SVN client without being an SVN client and BrentNewland didn't understand that if you want to keep the HRP updated to the SVN, you just use SVN software, plain and simple. I already made it simple with my SVN Auto-Downloading Script Set. I guess I could make it an EXE file if that would help noobs.

In summary, it tried to do a ton of things as a "front-end" that it has no business doing. It's a bit of an insult to the EDuke32 developers because there are generally better ways to integrate such functionality into the program itself, when warranted or even a good idea in the first place. It also holds the user's hand too much.

[NightFright]

Hehe, now I remember there was some reason why all of a sudden Bubblegum vanished. xD

Well, a script solution should work just fine, too. Wouldn't mind including it as a batch file, but having it as executable shouldn't hurt, either. Main thing is it works and it's easy to use.

[LeoD]

NightFright, on 23 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

With 100mb or more of updated contents, I think it's just a lot of effort. Also, these updates often contain duplicated stuff from existing HRP, so you end up with many identical files twice

Hm, the only effort I see is updating tile2492_ver. Compared to the file sizes of new contributions the amount of duplicate (moved) Polymost only files not a big deal.

NightFright, on 23 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

I have always considered a full HRP being the cleaner "all-in-one" solution which should be preferred. So rather have longer breaks in between releases, but then at least you (should) see some differences.

Agreed on the "cleaner solution" part since download size/speed is no big issue nowadays for most people. As the HRP is mostly complete the constant flow of Spiker's and Roma Loom's contributions and improvements will most likely not be as striking as the widely acclaimed new models. Some made it to the front page of Duke4.net but still are only available to the nerdy part of the community.

NightFright, on 23 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

And we still badly need folks to finally finish episodes 2 and 3 (not to mention ep.4), for those are the real milestones.

No doubt that's true. But you never know how real life will influence the contributors. Therefore I think that releases should be triggered by the amount and importance of new stuff that's actually available rather than a schedule. (Unless you get PMed about exciting stuff someone is working on.)

NightFright, on 23 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Right now it seems people are focussing on adding new maphacks for custom maps, so it cannot hurt to give them more time for that as well.

Actually that's only me so far. EDuke32 hasn't yet been enabled to make use of the HRP's new maphack system. So whoever wants to use them is better off by downloading the separate UserMapHack pack for the time being. Real life might slow me down to a complete halt on that soon enough anyway.

Hendricks266, on 23 March 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

IMO, if you want stuff so cutting-edge that you can't wait for a main HRP release and you're willing to go through the trouble of using update packs, you should learn how to use the SVN instead.

But it's far easier to help the "HRP no works" guys when they're using known ZIPs instead of a messed up SVN hierarchy.

[LeoD]

As of EDuke32 r3580 the animation of certain HRP models is 'broken' (0607 antenna, 4407 robotmouse). It alternates between model and ART tile. Most likely this simply reveals an incomplete range definition in the DEF files. Both are fixed in the repo. Please let me know if you encounter other models with a similar problem.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Hendricks266]

Thanks for checking that after my commit.

[Mateos]

Good evening,

I think I'm at the right place to ask; I would like to know how you made the detail textures in the HRP?

I would like to make my own, and since yours are really well done I prefer to ask here to be sure of getting the best info instead of Googling it

Thanks in advance

[NightFright]

Hmm, as far as I know, Parkar was the one who added the detail textures ages ago. No clue where he got them from, unfortunately. Maybe we should ask him when he is dropping by again.

Regarding next HRP release:
Here is a small collection of ideas what could be done before the next HRP gets published...

- Finish new Duke model/Cycloid Emperor (already WIP)
- Improve new intermission screens with new Duke model (animation is too stiff right now, doesn't breathe heavily like in the original, barrels/slime looks could be improved)
- Fix shotgun animation (it's the most important weapon in the game and feels "wobbly" when you fire it... model itself is cool)
- More normal maps (for textures, but also characters like babes and monsters)
- Better slime babes (maybe asking too much, but well, I guess we all agree they could look better/prettier - they are also showing their age by now)
- Finish Ep.2 highres contents at least (not very likely to happen, but would be great to edit the to-do list again for a change)

Of course, this is only meant as a suggestion, and not everything from this list "has to" be done. If any of you has more realistic goals to aim for, just shoot.

[Tetsuo]

Are the intermission screens going to be remade for widescreen? It'd probably be best to compose them for 16:9 keeping 16:9 as the "safe area" but give some extra space outside of it so when people get wider screens like the new 21:9 monitors they wont pillar-box or stretch there.

*starts a give the babes some plastic surgery fund because they are showing their age*

[LeoD]

After fixing more broken animations (reactor, robotdog2), as of EDuke32 r3580:
duke3d_hrp_update-5.2.486
polymost_hrp_override-5.2.486
Now the Subversion-allergic guys can have a look at the new (Polymer) Duke and Cycloid, too.

[NightFright]

Tetsuo, on 02 April 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Are the intermission screens going to be remade for widescreen? It'd probably be best to compose them for 16:9 keeping 16:9 as the "safe area" but give some extra space outside of it so when people get wider screens like the new 21:9 monitors they wont pillar-box or stretch there.

*starts a give the babes some plastic surgery fund because they are showing their age*

The problem is we have several widescreen tiles for the menus in the HRP already, but until the present day, they cannot be used (or if they can, I am unaware of this feature in EDuke32). They could be activated on-the-fly with a def update, but right now the game would just squeeze them into the old 4:3 aspect ratio, resulting in a distorted look.
Still, having all menu tiles in widescreen (where it makes sense - this would also apply for the status bar for example) is a good thing to have for future usage.

[Hendricks266]

NightFright, on 03 April 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

The problem is we have several widescreen tiles for the menus in the HRP already, but until the present day, they cannot be used (or if they can, I am unaware of this feature in EDuke32).

I have an idea how to finally implement these, but as with all things on my to-do list, it is piled high and dry. Time is short.

[NightFright]

That would be great actually. Somehow, they even pulled it off in Megaton (probably with hacks though). I have always been sure we didn't add the widescreen tiles for nothing.

Can anyone create a widescreen version of our current HRP statusbar maybe? It's definitely better than the one they have in Megaton (besides, we wouldn't be allowed to use it anyway), and I guess all that it takes is to extend the sides (the numbers and everything still need to stay at the same spot if I am not mistaken).

[Steveeeie]

NightFright, on 04 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

That would be great actually. Somehow, they even pulled it off in Megaton (probably with hacks though). I have always been sure we didn't add the widescreen tiles for nothing.

Can anyone create a widescreen version of our current HRP statusbar maybe? It's definitely better than the one they have in Megaton (besides, we wouldn't be allowed to use it anyway), and I guess all that it takes is to extend the sides (the numbers and everything still need to stay at the same spot if I am not mistaken).

I personally don't believe the quality of either the megaton version or the current HRP version are where they could be, leave it with me I will make a new version.

I will be rendering out an 8k version so people can use it many years from now too.

[NightFright]

Excellent! It's good to be prepared for the "W Day" (w=widescreen)! ^^

Don't forget that any remake should also include these tiles (mostly for the minimized HUD):
0020 (inventory selector)
0030 (health)
0031 (ammo)
0033 (inv)
2458 (kills)

Just so that everyone can see what we are talking about, this is what we currently have. If you can do better than both, great! (Right now, HRP version is still superior even if it's not widescreen.)

Until widescreen support is working in EDuke32, I guess we would need a 4:3 version as well, anyway.

[Tetsuo]

I kind of like the gold borders on the individual cells in the megaton version better. The current HRP ones look too blurry. Also I like how cleaner (as in the lines that compose the bar) the megaton one looks but the highlights and scorching\weathering on the bar background look better in the HRP version. The HRP looks like it was blown up from smaller rather than downscaled or made to the exact size.

[Hendricks266]

Additionally, could you keep the final product layered enough so that images in the pattern of the following three could be made? (These are from the Shadow Warrior HRP.)

(full)


(chrome gone, backing remains)


(mostly transparent)

[NightFright]

The HRP statusbar can still be improved, without any doubt. After all, it has been in the pack for a very long time, without any changes. I don't even remember who made it. A "sharper" version would make sense for sure, whether it's happening due to added widescreen support or not. The worn look of the current version is a cool thing though and maybe is worth keeping.

An interesting idea might be to also experiment with applying normalmapping to the statusbar. I'd be curious to see what that looks like (if it makes any sense at all).

[Hendricks266]

The status bar we have now is at least the second version the Duke 3D HRP has had.

I don't think normal mapping on the status bar would do anything because it is not affected by any light or shading.

[Plagman]

Yes; you'de have to define it as a flat model. I wonder how it'd look.