[Fox]

Plagman, on 12 June 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

So what? What is the problem you're having exactly?

I want to have control of what is in the invisible parts...

===//===//===

Is it possible to include an orientation flag to display a tile as the skybox defined? It could work like showview, using <x1> <y1> <x2> <y2> to position it. The unusued values of rotatesprite would be used for angle, horiz and roll.

[Plagman]

Fox, on 13 June 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

I want to have control of what is in the invisible parts...

You also have control over the invisible parts with a regular PNG image; there's still color data if alpha is 0.

[Diaz]

What program are you using?

In Photoshop, for TGA images the alpha channel is edited separately as a black and white channel... can't you set up the image program you're using to do the same?

[NightFright]

Eduke32 r3885:
Usage of DNCLIP cheat does not display confirmation message any more.

[TerminX]

Thanks, forgot a file in a previous commit.

[Fox]

Plagman, on 13 June 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

You also have control over the invisible parts with a regular PNG image; there's still color data if alpha is 0.

Unfortunately the image editing softwares don't seem to like it.

And it would not "just add bloat to the game code", it would help to organize the textures.

[fgsfds]

UPD:

How to compile lunatic eduke with mingw?
I've installed mingw using manual from eduke wiki. It works ok and can compile common eduke32. Then I've complied LuaJIT 1.1.8 and put it in bin folder.
This is what I get when trying to compile lunatic with

make eduke32.exe LUNATIC=1

[Helixhorned]

fgsfds, on 15 June 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

How to compile lunatic eduke with mingw?
I've installed mingw using manual from eduke wiki. It works ok and can compile common eduke32. Then I've complied LuaJIT 1.1.8 and put it in bin folder.

First, you'll need a fairly recent LuaJIT -- at least version 2.0.2 which was released two weeks ago. Major version 2 is required for features and the latest stable version because Lunatic (or some CON-to-Lua translated code, to be exact) exposed some bugs with its machine code generation [brag ]. You'll also need a statically linked library of LPeg 0.12 (its makefile doesn't have an option to build one, but I intend to publish the necessary changes on github sometime).

However, beware if you want to start writing Lunatic code. The API is still unfinished and parts of it may change before the first public release.

[Micky C]

When models have polymer light on them, the surface seems really smooth when in reality it's just a bunch of triangles with sharp corners.

So I was wondering, why can't the same be done for sector geometry? It looks a bit ugly when you make a nice smooth curve but the wall segments become extremely obvious due to light.

[Gambini]

Triangles in models look smooth when smoothing is applied on them. Doing the same for sectors/walls would require to use smoothing groups in mapster, which is ridiculous considering you shade sectors/walls manually.

Smoothing is a shading interpolation between surfaces, which requires an external lightsource.

[Mblackwell]

Micky has one, I believe. Looks like an example scene with a light to me.

[Gambini]

He has the lightsource but he has surfaces with their own shading attributes. The only way a smoothing method could work is by generating continuity between walls of the same shade and the same texture. Like, if five connected walls share shade and tilenumber, then they are automatically added to a smoothing group. Mappers then should avoid using the same shade value on perpendicular walls. Very complicated IMO.

[Micky C]

Hopefully there's some kind of automatic way to have it work in-game. I find the curved corners in DNE and any column with a light near it in WGR2 distracting.
You never know, plagman might stroll in here and go "oh yeah that's very easy" and we'll have it the next day.

[Fox]

We need a new starttrack command that can specify the volume. The setuserdef[].volume_number trick doesn't work in multiplayer because it must be set per-player, and CON doesn't have power to change the userdef structure of each player.

[Hendricks266]

^A problem like that makes me want to pull a screentext and design some sort of new system from the ground up--stuff like pausing, seeking, and playing music that isn't tied to an episode and level.

[Jblade]

Hendricks266, on 21 June 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

^A problem like that makes me want to pull a screentext and design some sort of new system from the ground up--stuff like pausing, seeking, and playing music that isn't tied to an episode and level.

A system like that is sorely needed, as well as being able to fade music in and out.

[Fox]

That's interesting. But the background music is a very primite principle, you can't expect much customization from it. I suppose you could have a sound / music volume "multiplier" control via CON independent of the regular sound / music volume as a workaround.

The new starttrack command should use two variables, the first one for episode and the second for the level. You would play and episode tracks with VOLUME+1, while zero would play the Title/Brifing/Loading tracks, and -1 would stop the current track from playing. It could be called startmusic, as a reference to the music command.

[Mblackwell]

Gambini, on 21 June 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

He has the lightsource but he has surfaces with their own shading attributes. The only way a smoothing method could work is by generating continuity between walls of the same shade and the same texture. Like, if five connected walls share shade and tilenumber, then they are automatically added to a smoothing group. Mappers then should avoid using the same shade value on perpendicular walls. Very complicated IMO.

The sector walls shouldn't be shaded at all except by a light. Otherwise you're stuck with the gradient. If it looks broken up define a normal map for the texture.

[Plagman]

Even with uniform shading and just a light you'll get sharp edges like this, because as someone mentioned there's no smooth shading for walls at the moment. If we had a good way to define smooth groups of walls in Mapster then the rendering part would be pretty simple to handle, but as-is it's not possible to do automatically, as it would smooth some cases where you don't want it smoothed.

[Diaz]

Gambini, on 21 June 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

He has the lightsource but he has surfaces with their own shading attributes. The only way a smoothing method could work is by generating continuity between walls of the same shade and the same texture. Like, if five connected walls share shade and tilenumber, then they are automatically added to a smoothing group. Mappers then should avoid using the same shade value on perpendicular walls. Very complicated IMO.

Ehm, not really. Shade and polymer lighting are two completely different things. You could have smooth lighting and still shade walls manually. I don't think using shade as a basis for smoothing would be useful at all.

[Gambini]

But if you don´t shade the walls they´re fullbright. How´s light going to affect a surface that is already lit? I´m thinking in the confines of Eduke32, where despite having polymer lights, surfaces are still shaded manually.

[Diaz]

Gambini, on 22 June 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

But if you don´t shade the walls they´re fullbright. How´s light going to affect a surface that is already lit? I´m thinking in the confines of Eduke32, where despite having polymer lights, surfaces are still shaded manually.

Yeah but on 100% Polymer stuff shade is basically the same on the whole map (pitch black, or just a slight ambient level). So using it for smoothing would be kinda doomed.

In Source, Quake, etc. compiling tools, you can define a maximum angle at which faces meet to apply smoothing on the resulting light maps, perhaps an adjustable setting for that in Polymer would work?

[Plagman]

But then would the rule be, angle inferior to threshold AND same tile, or would it apply to different tiles as well? It seems hard to imagine either of the two would do what you want for the whole map.

[Fox]

Using tile as a reference really wouldn't work, especially because there are arts composed of multiple tiles.

Won't it work using the the angle difference as a reference? I.e. if the angle is 90º or more there won't be any smoothness at all, and if the angle is 0º then it will be 100% smooth.

[Gambini]

That doesn´t sound optimal either, there are times when you have small angles and still want sharp borders. I´m not sure of how much data the smoothing group could gather but what about: same tile, same shading, aligned to each other, less than 30 degrees of difference. The only part that sounds difficult to determine is the angle.

[Diaz]

Well with Quake-based engines, the default angle threshold for smoothing (don't recall what it is) didn't really seem to be much of a problem. With Source, stuff could be added to smoothing groups, and the rules were that texture needed to be the same in all faces and PERFECTLY aligned. It was hard to get them right.

I think under most circumstances we would prefer to have smooth shaded faces on angles that are like this: \_

and no smooth faces on angles that are like this: /_ |_

But some adjustability would be desired because we might want an angle that is just slightly above 90º to have sharp borders. In this case, either an adjustable threshold, or having the smooth shading only apply if textures are perfectly aligned; then they could maybe be manually mis-aligned by one texel so the smoothing would not occur. I understand this is far from optimal though. And of course this would just affect Polymer lights, not classic shading.

[Gambini]

Diaz, on 22 June 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

With Source, stuff could be added to smoothing groups, and the rules were that texture needed to be the same in all faces and PERFECTLY aligned. It was hard to get them right.

yeah it sucks.

Quote

they could maybe be manually mis-aligned by one texel so the smoothing would not occur.

Exactly, you have then a controllable method. Not that bad.

[Tea Monster]

Is there any way of having a heat haze effect on a model in polymer?

[Fox]

Is it possible to add two wall cstat bitfields to inherit the top / bottom ROR texture alignment?

[Gambini]

Tea Monster, on 23 June 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

Is there any way of having a heat haze effect on a model in polymer?

Those heat affects can be replicated with animated dudv textures. Not sure if Polymer supports dudv shaders (according to those old promotional shots, it does).