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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
There is a difference between thinking cars outside a building is something special and discussing whether Apogee software is continuing the game or not.
Speculations that are plausible are fun, crazy wishful thinking not so much.
3D Realms Shutting Down
#1022 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:14 AM
Santar, on May 12 2009, 09:09 AM, said:
There is a difference between thinking cars outside a building is something special and discussing whether Apogee software is continuing the game or not.
Speculations that are plausible are fun, crazy wishful thinking not so much.
Speculations that are plausible are fun, crazy wishful thinking not so much.
Well eventually I'm sure people are going to run out of things to talk about or speculations are gonna end. So in this case with the cars in the parking lot and our conversation its just something else to talk about.
#1023 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:15 AM
About the 30 cars Ras said it yesterday over at the 3DR forum.
2 major things that go against this as a marketing strategy are that Take 2 probably have to green light everything and they just wouldn't allow this. But the big one for me is that pretending to shut down a studio as a marketing gimmick given the current climate and when other studios have really had to close their doors seems massively insensitive.
I still think that theres a lot about this that seems very fishy but there are plenty of big things pointing it away from being a marketing gimmick.
2 major things that go against this as a marketing strategy are that Take 2 probably have to green light everything and they just wouldn't allow this. But the big one for me is that pretending to shut down a studio as a marketing gimmick given the current climate and when other studios have really had to close their doors seems massively insensitive.
I still think that theres a lot about this that seems very fishy but there are plenty of big things pointing it away from being a marketing gimmick.
#1024 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:21 AM
EviL AnGeL, on May 12 2009, 09:15 AM, said:
About the 30 cars Ras said it yesterday over at the 3DR forum.
2 major things that go against this as a marketing strategy are that Take 2 probably have to green light everything and they just wouldn't allow this. But the big one for me is that pretending to shut down a studio as a marketing gimmick given the current climate and when other studios have really had to close their doors seems massively insensitive.
I still think that theres a lot about this that seems very fishy but there are plenty of big things pointing it away from being a marketing gimmick.
2 major things that go against this as a marketing strategy are that Take 2 probably have to green light everything and they just wouldn't allow this. But the big one for me is that pretending to shut down a studio as a marketing gimmick given the current climate and when other studios have really had to close their doors seems massively insensitive.
I still think that theres a lot about this that seems very fishy but there are plenty of big things pointing it away from being a marketing gimmick.
Absolutely, i agree. Its just so open ended on both sides of this camp. Perhaps George is really enjoying all this for the time being till he decides to muster up an explanation about all this asshattery going on and put an end to it.
#1025 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:35 AM
.. George is having a blast closing the company, writing employee recommendations, an official statement and having to live the day to day with the knowledge that he's kind of become a laughing stock for the game dev cycle and failure to release. I'm sure with enough anti-depressants he might even be enjoying this. ... yes, that must be it.
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no
I fail to see anything open ended on both sides of the camp. There's a serious lack of any real evidence that this is marketing or will lead to DNF's eventual release. Take 2 has publishing rights and more importantly they have yet to express any desire for the games release. All they've announced so far is that they are the only ones that can publish and they don't fund.
..
...
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......
no
I fail to see anything open ended on both sides of the camp. There's a serious lack of any real evidence that this is marketing or will lead to DNF's eventual release. Take 2 has publishing rights and more importantly they have yet to express any desire for the games release. All they've announced so far is that they are the only ones that can publish and they don't fund.
#1026 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:48 AM
Ramen4ever, on May 12 2009, 09:35 AM, said:
.. George is having a blast closing the company, writing employee recommendations, an official statement and having to live the day to day with the knowledge that he's kind of become a laughing stock for the game dev cycle and failure to release. I'm sure with enough anti-depressants he might even be enjoying this. ... yes, that must be it.
..
...
....
.....
......
no
I fail to see anything open ended on both sides of the camp. There's a serious lack of any real evidence that this is marketing or will lead to DNF's eventual release. Take 2 has publishing rights and more importantly they have yet to express any desire for the games release. All they've announced so far is that they are the only ones that can publish and they don't fund.
..
...
....
.....
......
no
I fail to see anything open ended on both sides of the camp. There's a serious lack of any real evidence that this is marketing or will lead to DNF's eventual release. Take 2 has publishing rights and more importantly they have yet to express any desire for the games release. All they've announced so far is that they are the only ones that can publish and they don't fund.
Let me clarify a bit more. The fans have two sides and leaving things open ended. It also doesn't help there isn't a statement yet from George laying down the hammer. As you can see there are still discussions about it being a marketing hoax and others seeing it as it being actually legit and 3D realms is truly screwed. The fact that there is no real evidence leaves things open to the imagination and as you noticed, many fans imaginations are pretty big. I'm pretty sure George is miserable right now, as I would be too.
#1028 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:51 AM
Sinisterambo, on May 12 2009, 09:49 AM, said:
Maybe a skeletal staff exists to finish the game 
Haha thats the group of folks who decided to work on the game for free. A little last minute lighting round push to do what they can. Doubt it but who knows.
#1029 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:52 AM
Someone in here mentioned something about the staff apparently offering to work for free.
Anybody know where this rumor originated from?
If this was true (altough it probably isn't) and they apparently still closed down that would seem a bit strange.
I really hope we will at least get a official statement either way. As being left in the dark really only hurts the fans.
Anybody know where this rumor originated from?
If this was true (altough it probably isn't) and they apparently still closed down that would seem a bit strange.
I really hope we will at least get a official statement either way. As being left in the dark really only hurts the fans.
#1030 Posted 12 May 2009 - 08:58 AM
Santar, on May 12 2009, 09:52 AM, said:
Someone in here mentioned something about the staff apparently offering to work for free.
Anybody know where this rumor originated from?
If this was true (altough it probably isn't) and they apparently still closed down that would seem a bit strange.
I really hope we will at least get a official statement either way. As being left in the dark really only hurts the fans.
Anybody know where this rumor originated from?
If this was true (altough it probably isn't) and they apparently still closed down that would seem a bit strange.
I really hope we will at least get a official statement either way. As being left in the dark really only hurts the fans.
I remember reading about it in the 3D-Realms forums, I don't recall who mentioned it as there are tons and tons of threads and posts there right now to weed through. Yes being left in the dark for any matter kinda blows, especially for this.
#1032 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:14 AM
I have just been a casual observer of DNF for the past 10 years, checking back to the 3dRealms site whenever Duke crosses my mind. When I heard of the news that 3dRealms was shutting down, I made my way to the forums and went through the entire 100 page thread.
I never pay any mind to conspiracy theories about any subject and don't want to get into it here regarding DNF/3dRealms closing. The thing that is so bizarre to me, though, is that George hasn't made a statement yet. ANYONE in such a position would know to have a statement ready before sh*t hit the fan. The best way to prevent conspiracies and speculation caused by lack of information is to provide the information. The old concept of making a PR statement before the media take hold of it and can put their on slant(s) on things. That wasn't done and still hasn't been done. Joe, the mod on the 3dRealms forums, said that George will give his statement after he figures out how to carefully word it. How long could that possibly take? It's now about a week after 3dRealms announced it was closing and nothing has been said. The fact that it hasn't been done, to me raises a flag "Why?" It must have been done for a reason...
It would seem like a very weird publicity stunt to me, but just look at the facts. News of DNF/3dRealms is abuzz now. Various media was leaked, causing more interest. It also just seems difficult to think that they couldn't have found some way out of it other than closing. And on the other side of the coin, we just have 3dRealms employees/"ex-employees" telling us that they're closing. They could easily be lying or rather obligated by their employer to go along with the PR ruse. I'm not sure how concrete evidence of 3dRealms actually closing could be gathered.
Anyway, I don't want to make another conspiracy theory post, but this is just so weird to me. It's hard to ignore the way 3dRealms supposedly closing went down. It just doesn't make sense to me...
I never pay any mind to conspiracy theories about any subject and don't want to get into it here regarding DNF/3dRealms closing. The thing that is so bizarre to me, though, is that George hasn't made a statement yet. ANYONE in such a position would know to have a statement ready before sh*t hit the fan. The best way to prevent conspiracies and speculation caused by lack of information is to provide the information. The old concept of making a PR statement before the media take hold of it and can put their on slant(s) on things. That wasn't done and still hasn't been done. Joe, the mod on the 3dRealms forums, said that George will give his statement after he figures out how to carefully word it. How long could that possibly take? It's now about a week after 3dRealms announced it was closing and nothing has been said. The fact that it hasn't been done, to me raises a flag "Why?" It must have been done for a reason...
It would seem like a very weird publicity stunt to me, but just look at the facts. News of DNF/3dRealms is abuzz now. Various media was leaked, causing more interest. It also just seems difficult to think that they couldn't have found some way out of it other than closing. And on the other side of the coin, we just have 3dRealms employees/"ex-employees" telling us that they're closing. They could easily be lying or rather obligated by their employer to go along with the PR ruse. I'm not sure how concrete evidence of 3dRealms actually closing could be gathered.
Anyway, I don't want to make another conspiracy theory post, but this is just so weird to me. It's hard to ignore the way 3dRealms supposedly closing went down. It just doesn't make sense to me...
This post has been edited by im1dermike: 12 May 2009 - 09:16 AM
#1033 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:20 AM
MasterMike569, on May 12 2009, 12:51 PM, said:
Haha thats the group of folks who decided to work on the game for free. A little last minute lighting round push to do what they can. Doubt it but who knows.
Thats really not that far stretched, that could be what they are doing.
#1034 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:26 AM
Who knows, maybe closing 3DR will actually work as a catalyst for DNF, even if it's not 3DR who will finish it
#1035 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:26 AM
im1dermike, on May 12 2009, 06:14 PM, said:
The thing that is so bizarre to me, though, is that George hasn't made a statement yet. ANYONE in such a position would know to have a statement ready before sh*t hit the fan.
I can only guess but I would think it's because he's trying all last ditch efforts to find funding and hoping that the publicity attracts an investor. I'm expecting it to be Friday at the earliest before we hear anything.
ReaperMan, on May 12 2009, 06:20 PM, said:
Thats really not that far stretched, that could be what they are doing.
I suppose if they're that passionate about the game until they get new job offers why not work for free.
#1036 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:28 AM
That sounds like a reasonable possibility to me, EviL AnGeL. Something is purposely amiss, that's for sure...
#1037 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:28 AM
If this whole 3Drealms closing thing is just a marketing scheme, the backlash would just be enormous. It's obvious it's closing.
#1038 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:32 AM
So, ok. They are working for free. Is there a possibility to see release of the game? Why would they work then... Of course they could just be working on making *that* animation right. Just for personal pleasure.
#1039 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:37 AM
Hey now, nobody said they're working for free now.
It's just pure speculation.
The oh so very mysterious cars outside the offices is probably just there because they're closing the place down.
It's just pure speculation.
The oh so very mysterious cars outside the offices is probably just there because they're closing the place down.
#1040 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:38 AM
I guess that in this entire discussion I'm on the fence. The bottom line is I want to see DNF released and I will surely keep on believing it'll be out until the very end but I also consider facts in all this.
I can actually believe the whole 3DR shut down is a mistification. I mean, it's possible. You can make valid points and present proof that it's real but IF it is a stunt, they would never ever want you to find out out it, right? What would be the point of making such a mistification if everyone could just figure it out? Everything including the shut down, Joe Sieglers comments, portfolios, comments on Shacknews... even Take 2 can be involved. If it's a stunt, everyone has to be involved so that the whole thing looks real. But let me be clear that I am not insisting that it's fake, just saying that in my opinion it's possible. After all it's 3DR and it's about DNF. Otherwise I would discard it right away but honestly I could totally imagine 3DR pulling something like this off for DNF.
Anyway you can say that I'm "denying the facts" but there are few things that doesn't feel right. Note a "fanboyish" and "blind faith" attitude. Basically I'm in a "I want to believe" mode but still trying to hold on to facts though.
I can imagine a company lacking funds even at the final push. Still this company has been funding the game for 12 years through several iterations on its own, they were also working with other companies, they were getting money though a lot of projects throughout the years. Wouldn't they also get cash from DNT? It's Duke Nukem (3DR owns the name) after all. And then suddenly (considering even Joe didn't know about it) bang, no cash. How? It is possible but damn, they were funding the game for 12 years and out of nowhere during the final push they run out of cash? Suspicious...
Also GB posted about a milestone. That was less than month before the closure and AFTER a visit at Take 2 where he was suppossedly shot down and didn't get funds. Later they had a team BBQ. Last update is from May 3rd and felt rather random. You know, I'd expect that he knew a lot earlier that 3 days later they'll shut down right? He'd knew a lot earlier but no, everything is fine and then one day surprise, we're closing. What the hell.
The "Goodbye" message was also very deep, you know. What kind of a farewell is that? I mean, if someone was not contributing to forums and only visiting a main site of his/her beloved company, he/she wouldn't even know what the hell is going on. Plus a happy pic, I didn't expect them to cry but I find it rather weird that most of the staff is so super happy. Hey we just dumbed the development of 12 years old game what we poured our hearts on, our company is closing, we're out of jobs, hurray!
And I have to mention the brilliant move of revealing the entire plot. Not only this is the most illogical thing anyone could do but also things that Altered Reality pointed. Mainly the fact that the supposed doc lacked shrunken Duke and mine carts yet we see that in the shots and footage.
Also wanted to say, this is by no means anything to relate to and more of a interesting thing to point. John Romero didn't mention the 3DR shut down on his blog. I know he stays in touch with Joe and that he was super excited about DNF shot and the teaser on day one, looking forward to it. And now what, 3DR shuts down and few days later he still couldn't find the time to post about it? Think it'd be an important thing for him to write about.
I'm waiting for GBs statement until Friday cause that seems like a proper timeline. Hope we'll finally find out what happens with the project, whether it's cancelled or not.
I can actually believe the whole 3DR shut down is a mistification. I mean, it's possible. You can make valid points and present proof that it's real but IF it is a stunt, they would never ever want you to find out out it, right? What would be the point of making such a mistification if everyone could just figure it out? Everything including the shut down, Joe Sieglers comments, portfolios, comments on Shacknews... even Take 2 can be involved. If it's a stunt, everyone has to be involved so that the whole thing looks real. But let me be clear that I am not insisting that it's fake, just saying that in my opinion it's possible. After all it's 3DR and it's about DNF. Otherwise I would discard it right away but honestly I could totally imagine 3DR pulling something like this off for DNF.
Anyway you can say that I'm "denying the facts" but there are few things that doesn't feel right. Note a "fanboyish" and "blind faith" attitude.
Basically I'm in a "I want to believe" mode but still trying to hold on to facts though.I can imagine a company lacking funds even at the final push. Still this company has been funding the game for 12 years through several iterations on its own, they were also working with other companies, they were getting money though a lot of projects throughout the years. Wouldn't they also get cash from DNT? It's Duke Nukem (3DR owns the name) after all. And then suddenly (considering even Joe didn't know about it) bang, no cash. How? It is possible but damn, they were funding the game for 12 years and out of nowhere during the final push they run out of cash? Suspicious...
Also GB posted about a milestone. That was less than month before the closure and AFTER a visit at Take 2 where he was suppossedly shot down and didn't get funds. Later they had a team BBQ. Last update is from May 3rd and felt rather random. You know, I'd expect that he knew a lot earlier that 3 days later they'll shut down right? He'd knew a lot earlier but no, everything is fine and then one day surprise, we're closing. What the hell.
The "Goodbye" message was also very deep, you know. What kind of a farewell is that? I mean, if someone was not contributing to forums and only visiting a main site of his/her beloved company, he/she wouldn't even know what the hell is going on. Plus a happy pic, I didn't expect them to cry but I find it rather weird that most of the staff is so super happy. Hey we just dumbed the development of 12 years old game what we poured our hearts on, our company is closing, we're out of jobs, hurray!
And I have to mention the brilliant move of revealing the entire plot. Not only this is the most illogical thing anyone could do but also things that Altered Reality pointed. Mainly the fact that the supposed doc lacked shrunken Duke and mine carts yet we see that in the shots and footage.
Also wanted to say, this is by no means anything to relate to and more of a interesting thing to point. John Romero didn't mention the 3DR shut down on his blog. I know he stays in touch with Joe and that he was super excited about DNF shot and the teaser on day one, looking forward to it. And now what, 3DR shuts down and few days later he still couldn't find the time to post about it? Think it'd be an important thing for him to write about.
I'm waiting for GBs statement until Friday cause that seems like a proper timeline. Hope we'll finally find out what happens with the project, whether it's cancelled or not.
#1041 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:38 AM
Santar: The backlash as far as what? Fans feeling too "wronged" by 3dRealms and not buying the game? Fans would be mad for about 2 seconds until they realized their 10+ year wait was over and hightailed it to buy the game. People who aren't Duke fanboys wouldn't be that mad at all. They'd just be happy to play another cool FPS.
Nihilanth: Why would it be so hard for "everyone" to be involved? The 3dRealms employees (all ~20 of them) would be obligated to be in on it by their employer. Take 2 can only benefit from the publicity it's getting. These people would have an interest in supporting the ruse; so that DNF could get as much publicity as it's gotten the past week. It's kind of f*cked up if it is a ruse, but it would only take a 20 second clip of Duke saying some funny quip about people not believing in him or something to have all be forgotten.
Do the faces of the 3dRealms employees in that "Goodbye" picture look like people who just found out their jobless and will be fighting to support their family? The face of someone who as far as a final product goes, just wasted the past 10+ years of their life? If the goodbye message wasn't deep, then it wouldn't be believable.
Nihilanth: Why would it be so hard for "everyone" to be involved? The 3dRealms employees (all ~20 of them) would be obligated to be in on it by their employer. Take 2 can only benefit from the publicity it's getting. These people would have an interest in supporting the ruse; so that DNF could get as much publicity as it's gotten the past week. It's kind of f*cked up if it is a ruse, but it would only take a 20 second clip of Duke saying some funny quip about people not believing in him or something to have all be forgotten.
Do the faces of the 3dRealms employees in that "Goodbye" picture look like people who just found out their jobless and will be fighting to support their family? The face of someone who as far as a final product goes, just wasted the past 10+ years of their life? If the goodbye message wasn't deep, then it wouldn't be believable.
This post has been edited by im1dermike: 12 May 2009 - 09:47 AM
#1042 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:40 AM
Santar, on May 12 2009, 11:28 AM, said:
If this whole 3Drealms closing thing is just a marketing scheme, the backlash would just be enormous. It's obvious it's closing.
3DR might be closing, but it is definitely not obvious. If this were a marketing scheme, everything that has went on would go on. Do keep in mind that there has not been an official statement saying 3DR is closing from anyone. Just Joe confirming it in the most unofficial place, the 3DR forums.
#1043 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:48 AM
Well, remember this is 3Drealms we're talking about here.
The company that barely said anything for 13 years.
They're not exactly known for being open about things.
The company that barely said anything for 13 years.
They're not exactly known for being open about things.
#1044 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:48 AM
"Also GB posted about a milestone. That was less than month before the closure and AFTER a visit at Take 2 where he was suppossedly shot down and didn't get funds. Later they had a team BBQ. Last update is from May 3rd and felt rather random. You know, I'd expect that he knew a lot earlier that 3 days later they'll shut down right? He'd knew a lot earlier but no, everything is fine and then one day surprise, we're closing. What the hell."
Actually according to the rumors, they had gotten a verbal yes from Take Two, held the BBQ to celebrate that, then got shut down by Take Two.
Actually according to the rumors, they had gotten a verbal yes from Take Two, held the BBQ to celebrate that, then got shut down by Take Two.
#1045 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:48 AM
im1dermike, on May 12 2009, 10:14 AM, said:
Anyway, I don't want to make another conspiracy theory post, but this is just so weird to me. It's hard to ignore the way 3dRealms supposedly closing went down. It just doesn't make sense to me...
Well what i find really strange is that the "ex employees" don't have a nice portofolio page, every content is just uploaded in may and the only blogs they have is right after the shutting down.
Whats also very strange is that 3Drealms is just outta nothing shutting down, no warning like "hey where outta money" or something like that.
#1046 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:52 AM
Yeah, it's not like they received word from all potential investors last week saying "No" and had to close immediately. They would have known about this for months.
This is so obviously fishy.
This is so obviously fishy.
#1047 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:53 AM
Guys i think the truth is very simple and it is just what it seems.
They were out of money and George had to let the staff go.
Now they are trying to figure out what to do. I really believe that George and Scott don't know what to do yet.
It is SIMPLE as this....
They saw it coming months ago and yet couldn't prevent it. That means don't expect any news in the near future, no official statements....
They were out of money and George had to let the staff go.
Now they are trying to figure out what to do. I really believe that George and Scott don't know what to do yet.
It is SIMPLE as this....
They saw it coming months ago and yet couldn't prevent it. That means don't expect any news in the near future, no official statements....
- Judge Mental
-
#1048 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:54 AM
Kristian Joensen, on May 12 2009, 10:48 AM, said:
Actually according to the rumors, they had gotten a verbal yes from Take Two, held the BBQ to celebrate that, then got shut down by Take Two.
If thats true... F*CK Take Two.
#1049 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:56 AM
Woodensword, on May 12 2009, 01:53 PM, said:
It is SIMPLE as this....
They saw it coming months ago and yet couldn't prevent it. That means don't expect any news in the near future, no official statements....
They saw it coming months ago and yet couldn't prevent it. That means don't expect any news in the near future, no official statements....
If it's that simple, then a statement would be that much easier to write. It being simple doesn't mean no news/official statement should/will be given. No sure how you came up with that logic, but it doesn't make sense...
This post has been edited by im1dermike: 12 May 2009 - 10:01 AM
#1050 Posted 12 May 2009 - 09:58 AM
Who is Take Two? They can't close 3DR because it's not their property, Duke Nukem is not their property! They only have exclusive right to publish only DNF!
