[crunchysuperman]

 im1dermike, on May 12 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

If it's that simple than a statement would be that easy to write. It being simple doesn't mean no news/official statement will be given. No sure how you came up with that logic, but it doesn't make sense.

Even if they did, there would be those who wouldn't believe that either.

[ryche]

I am so not going in here anymore.

[MasterMike569]

They got a verbal yes? I dont remember reading that. I musta missed that. .. if thats the case then thats pretty jacked up. I woulda chopped off the mans ball bag who told me yes then went around and said no.

[im1dermike]

 crunchysuperman, on May 12 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Even if they did, there would be those who wouldn't believe that either.

That's fine, but at least there would be an official statement/position given by 3dRealms.

[locarno]

I don't necessarily think this is a giant marketing scheme, this probably did happen. What I think will happen is that 3DR legitimately shut down: George is writing recommendations, making phone calls, what have you. There is no way that any one could do an elaborate viral campaign like this one, it just doesn't make any sense to do so.

If ANYTHING, I feel that, since George restarted Apogee Software last year (I think, I don't remember when it happened), Apogee may pick this up as their launch project. Sure, they're working on the Duke Nukem Trilogy, and everything there is going along fine and dandy, but I still can't help but think that there is something to do with DNF from the twitter post "New Press Release from Apogee Software regarding Duke Nukem coming next week". More than likely, this will just be a new press release regarding the Trilogy, but my far-fetched theory....no, my HOPE, is that Apogee will pick up DNF from where it's at, finish it, and release it along with or after the Duke Trilogy their working on. Not gonna get my hopes too high, but I've been waiting (like most of you) since I got Duke 3D when I was 9 and DNF was announced to place this game. 13 years is a long time to wait obviously, hopefully this won't be the last time we see anything regarding DNF before I finish college in two years

[Woodensword]

im1dermike, on May 12 2009, 08:56 PM, said:

If it's that simple, then a statement would be that much easier to write. It being simple doesn't mean no news/official statement should/will be given. No sure how you came up with that logic, but it doesn't make sense...

I said they don't know what to do yet. The truth is obvious and simple.
So they won't make any official statement until there is a reason for that statement (e.g. DNF's future).

For the time being THEY MADE that simple-to-write statement you say. THEY SAID GOODBYE! What more to add if they don't know what to do...???? Don't expect them to share the detailed reasons for the shut down.

[Ras]

Following a discussion from a few pages back:

Yes, it was I who mentioned seeing the cars. I've lived in the area all my life, and it's true. I'm going to be driving that way in a few minutes, so I can report if there are cars again if anyone cares. I don't have a camera and would find it a little creepy taking pictures and saving them to my photobucket, so you can either take my word or not. I never said it was a conspiracy and meant that 3DR is really still in operation. I just reported what I saw.

Could be any reason, but if there are still that many cars next week, after even Joe and Bryan are let go, it might be a little strange.

To answer another question, no, it can't be cars from other businesses. There is nothing directly around 3DR. Across a pretty major street is a Wal-Mart, but it's far enough away and has enough parking of its own that nobody would use their lot for it. Across a small street is a 7-11 and a Chili's. And, behind it is a residential neighborhood. They are directly next to a huge, vacant parking lot that used to be park and ride for the public bus.

Could these cars be workers breaking down cubicles or taking personal belongings home? I don't know. I have no idea what's going on in there. But, there were the same number of cars on Thursday and Friday.

I'd advise not to make too big a deal of it. I'm not going to waltz into the lobby, so we can't know why they're there. I don't doubt that 3DR is gone. The only question I can see in all this is whether DNF will one day be finished and released or not, and that has nothing to do with cars in the parking lot.

[Psyrgery]

Well, I'm back to that Non-believer status. Let me figure out a situation for you guys:

Image this: http://twitter.com/g...atus/1150265907
GB: And the game starts with Duke... Then you see... And then... Cool Stuff, eh?
Publishers1: Yeah, looks neat!
Publishers2: Those are some interesting ideas.

Some time after:
GB: That's why we need some cash to finish it.
Publishers1: Well, it look cool and promising! Let us think on it for a while and then we'll give you call.
GB: Ok guys, thanks for receiving us, bye.

Ok, some months later George receives a call from Take2 which he gladly answers:
GB: Hey guys, how are you doing? Nice to hear from you again!
Publishers: Hey George! How are you!
GB: Good, good! You are calling to talk about funding the game, right?
Publishers: Yeah, you sure know it! We've even thought about a better offer... To be honest I consider it unnacceptable, believe me!
(George has it doubts, but acts naturally)GB: Ok, ok. Talk, I'm listening
Publishers: We've though about giving you the cash you needed, plus 25$ milions... If you gave us the whole Duke Nukem IP in change!.
(George can't believe what he's listening to. The Publishers starts some speach about the advantages of accepting this offer, it will boost the Duke Nukem Franchise to a whole new dimension and that kind of crap. At that moment, George wasn't listening, but suddenly he interrupts the publishers)
GB: Okay okay... Listen, i've got some business to deal with, let me think about it ok? I'll tell you something, I'll post my answer on my Twitter account, you know it, right? Okay okay see you byebye.

Some time later after that afternoon (or some days later, as you'd preffer), George posts the following: http://twitter.com/g...atus/1635417882

Ok, that was some invented stuff, but that's my vision on what may have happened.

For confirmation that he had been, indeed, screwed over by the publisher, take a look at this post (I'll post it here, instead of the link)

"George Broussard" said:

$130 and 5 hours of waiting and I have DirectTV again. Now, on to more pressing issues.

It looks like those issues were quite pressing.

At this moment, that's why I'm taking as a confirmation that things are very, very screwed, and maybe solutions are being looked for.

But at the moment, nothing but screwed.

[Richard Shead]

People seriously need to stop dwelling on this "30 cars parked outside" rumor.

For all we know, the new occupants of the building have already moved in.......

I don't think George will ever comment on the situation. If he was going to talk, he would've already. If it was some big prank, it would have been over by now(and it would've played out quite differently, being only a prank and all).

But it's the real deal. Since when has George ever been overly loose with his lips about what was really happening to them in Garland? Never.

The fact that there is no "official" word so far makes me believe there will never be. As I said earlier, I'm 100% positive of this scenario:

1. The DNF team just wasn't able to pull stuff together and couldn't work cohesively as a team(see that shacknews post by one of the ex team members).

2. They just took too long and were overly ambitious, unorganized and lazy to boot- all the while being run by a perfectionist known as George.

3. The whole "no deadlines" philosophy and throwing out completed content because it wasn't quite up to snuff contributed greatly to their downfall as well.

4. George realized the project was fucked and that they hadn't completed enough of the game itself for the graphics engine to still be competitive by the time the game was ready to ship.

5. George didn't want to cut back on any of the content and release DNF as anything less than the dream he had for it.

6. Unwilling to compromise or just backed into corner with too many loose ends to tie together, George canned the game himself realizing it would never be what he intended it to be.

7. Pretty much the same mistake that was made in 2001-2002 had repeated itself, yet this time on an even grander scale. Realizing how ridiculous it would be to start over yet again, George had no choice but to pull the plug on DNF.

8. I'm sure money had something to with it too. If money was not an issue, I'm willing to bet that they'd have hired more guys and then finished up the game. But with so much to do, even the team of 30 was understaffed, and with the work ethics(or lack thereof) reportedly practiced by the then-existing team, it was mission impossible. George realized this and decided to let everyone go, after coming to the revelation that in it's current state, the game would never be completed in the way he had hoped it would be nor in a timely manner.

9. Now can you imagine why George hasn't posted anything? Don't expect to hear from him ever again. He messed up big time and monumentally screwed so many people over that he doesn't want to bring anymore attention to himself. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy. Really. He was a really nice person, if word can be believed and he really meant the best for Duke. Do you think he thought to himself "Hahaha, I'm going to soil the franchise and screw myself out of millions upon millions while disappointing numerous fans at the same time?" No. Duke 3D was an amazing game. One of the best and most innovative FPSs ever. George had seen too many games not live up to their predecessors and be hyped beyond what they delivered and he was rightfully paranoid that DNF would become the same. With such success from Duke 3D, you almost can't blame him for being overly ambitious.

He was trying for something big. Real big. And now he knows it was bigger than he could ever handle.

Game over.

[Nihilanth]

Ah yes, that's another possibility. It's mostly based on rumours but still.

So it's basically that 3DR were running out of money, asked T2 for injection, T2 refused but offered $30 mil for Duke Nukem IP and 3DR refused. If we're to believe that, it basically means that T2 acted like total jackasses, embracing an opportunity when 3DR were backed against the wall to buy the great IP from them, knowing that without their money they'll never finish the current project. It probably makes sense from buisness perspective but it basically screwed everything up for us. In that case T2 is to blame because they invested absolutely nothing into the project for 12 years but refused a finish line aid because they crave for the IP.

[Woodensword]

 Psyrgery, on May 12 2009, 09:07 PM, said:

Well, I'm back to that Non-believer status. Let me figure out a situation for you guys:

Image this: http://twitter.com/g...atus/1150265907
GB: And the game starts with Duke... Then you see... And then... Cool Stuff, eh?
Publishers1: Yeah, looks neat!
Publishers2: Those are some interesting ideas.

Some time after:
GB: That's why we need some cash to finish it.
Publishers1: Well, it look cool and promising! Let us think on it for a while and then we'll give you call.
GB: Ok guys, thanks for receiving us, bye.

Ok, some months later George receives a call from Take2 which he gladly answers:
GB: Hey guys, how are you doing? Nice to hear from you again!
Publishers: Hey George! How are you!
GB: Good, good! You are calling to talk about funding the game, right?
Publishers: Yeah, you sure know it! We've even thought about a better offer... To be honest I consider it unnacceptable, believe me!
(George has it doubts, but acts naturally)GB: Ok, ok. Talk, I'm listening
Publishers: We've though about giving you the cash you needed, plus 25$ milions... If you gave us the whole Duke Nukem IP in change!.
(George can't believe what he's listening to. The Publishers starts some speach about the advantages of accepting this offer, it will boost the Duke Nukem Franchise to a whole new dimension and that kind of crap. At that moment, George wasn't listening, but suddenly he interrupts the publishers)
GB: Okay okay... Listen, i've got some business to deal with, let me think about it ok? I'll tell you something, I'll post my answer on my Twitter account, you know it, right? Okay okay see you byebye.

Some time later after that afternoon (or some days later, as you'd preffer), George posts the following: http://twitter.com/g...atus/1635417882

Ok, that was some invented stuff, but that's my vision on what may have happened.

For confirmation that he had been, indeed, screwed over by the publisher, take a look at this post (I'll post it here, instead of the link)



It looks like those issues were quite pressing.

At this moment, that's why I'm taking as a confirmation that things are very, very screwed, and maybe solutions are being looked for.

But at the moment, nothing but screwed.

That's very good explaining Psyrgery.Hell, you could turn this into a theatrical play!!

But yes i agree that NO in George's twitter seems very heroic and very bold!!!

[Redcard]

Let me ask a question..

Did Take 2 offer George $30 mil for the IP, or did they ask for $30mil to free up the publishing rights so that George can go shop the product?

When stuff first broke, I saw it reported the second way.. but now people are acting like George was offered the ability to sell out.

[MasterMike569]

 Ras, on May 12 2009, 11:07 AM, said:

Following a discussion from a few pages back:

Yes, it was I who mentioned seeing the cars. I've lived in the area all my life, and it's true. I'm going to be driving that way in a few minutes, so I can report if there are cars again if anyone cares. I don't have a camera and would find it a little creepy taking pictures and saving them to my photobucket, so you can either take my word or not. I never said it was a conspiracy and meant that 3DR is really still in operation. I just reported what I saw.

Could be any reason, but if there are still that many cars next week, after even Joe and Bryan are let go, it might be a little strange.

To answer another question, no, it can't be cars from other businesses. There is nothing directly around 3DR. Across a pretty major street is a Wal-Mart, but it's far enough away and has enough parking of its own that nobody would use their lot for it. Across a small street is a 7-11 and a Chili's. And, behind it is a residential neighborhood. They are directly next to a huge, vacant parking lot that used to be park and ride for the public bus.

Could these cars be workers breaking down cubicles or taking personal belongings home? I don't know. I have no idea what's going on in there. But, there were the same number of cars on Thursday and Friday.

I'd advise not to make too big a deal of it. I'm not going to waltz into the lobby, so we can't know why they're there. I don't doubt that 3DR is gone. The only question I can see in all this is whether DNF will one day be finished and released or not, and that has nothing to do with cars in the parking lot.

Thanks for the description of the area . Totally eliminates some theories for the rumor/conspiracy mill.

[Aussensaiter]

Ok, I got something here, looks like a straw im holding on, but might seem were heading for big news !
So, on GeorgeB's Linkendin Profile there's a website, called gameilluminati, i'll post the url in the following.
Seems little odd, just a login, someone seems hiding something if I had to take a guess. So heres the URL,
and another one, with which most of you are already familiar:

https://www.gameilluminati.com/
http://www.savedukenukem.com/

That is apparently a members only bulletin board. You cannot access it without a password. Apparently it is 'invitation only' for industry people.
Interestingly enough, this board is registered to a one George Broussard, he of 3D Realms fame.

So what's about ?
We know that savedukenukem is a bit weird, with all the crap of buying before 3dr goes down and the /img directory thing.

But carefully look at the bg-colour and switch the tabs between those pages, looks like the same.
Might be similar, you know hex is a bit weirdo. But hey the hex code is exactly the same
I don't believe that is a real coincidence, and that there's more behind this.

"Someone", whoever created savedukenuke.com uses the same colours as georgeb !

[Santar]

The way I heard it when that rumor started up was that Take 2 offered 3Drealms the publishing rights for Dnf back for 30 million.
It was only later that I saw said rumor switch around to Take 2 offering to buy the Duke ip for 30 mill.

[Richard Shead]

I'm waiting for the unauthorized made-for-TV movie dramatizing the production of DNF.

Heck, they've made TV movies about far less interesting things.

[Redcard]

 Aussensaiter, on May 12 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

Ok, I got something here, looks like a straw im holding on, but might seem were heading for big news !
So, on GeorgeB's Linkendin Profile there's a website, called gameilluminati, i'll post the url in the following.
Seems little odd, just a login, someone seems hiding something if I had to take a guess. So heres the URL,
and another one, with which most of you are already familiar:

https://www.gameilluminati.com/
http://www.savedukenukem.com/

That is apparently a members only bulletin board. You cannot access it without a password. Apparently it is 'invitation only' for industry people.
Interestingly enough, this board is registered to a one George Broussard, he of 3D Realms fame.

So what's about ?
We know that savedukenukem is a bit weird, with all the crap of buying before 3dr goes down and the /img directory thing.

But carefully look at the bg-colour and switch the tabs between those pages, looks like the same.
Might be similar, you know hex is a bit weirdo. But hey the hex code is exactly the same
I don't believe that is a real coincidence, and that there's more behind this.

"Someone", whoever created savedukenuke.com uses the same colours as georgeb !

I don't.

You're reaching.

SaveDukeNukem is registered by a guy in California who bought it the day of the report in Shacknews and online. This broke on the SIXTH. Not the Seventh. It was confirmed on the Seventh, but domain speculators hardly ever need confirmation.

[EviL AnGeL]

George's twitter

# No.
7:46 PM Apr 27th from web

Knowing what we know now that speaks volumes. What doesn't make sense though is this.

# $130 and 5 hours of waiting and I have DirectTV again. Now, on to more pressing issues.
3:28 PM Apr 29th from web

And of course

# This is awesome. 40 minute original fan film in LOTR universe. Do not miss this: http://www.thehuntforgollum..
12:35 PM May 3rd from web

If you take it as the "No." means FUUUUUUUU then why would he carry on posting about Direct Tv, pressing issues and LOTR fan films.

[Aussensaiter]

 Redcard, on May 12 2009, 11:18 AM, said:

I don't.

You're reaching.

SaveDukeNukem is registered by a guy in California who bought it the day of the report in Shacknews and online. This broke on the SIXTH. Not the Seventh. It was confirmed on the Seventh, but domain speculators hardly ever need confirmation.

And it takes about one day to register a domain, they have a delay there

[Sinisterambo]

 Duke Rocks, on May 12 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

... And now he knows it was bigger than he could ever handle.

Game over.

Yeah that would have been ok up until late 2005 when they looked at the project again from a more realistic angle and decided to restart to include 360 support the following year apparently.

 EviL AnGeL, on May 12 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

Why would he carry on posting about Direct Tv, pressing issues and LOTR fan films?

Smokescreen?

[Redcard]

 Aussensaiter, on May 12 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

And it takes about one day to register a domain, they have a delay there

No.

It takes about ten MINUTES to register a domain.

It takes up to a day to propagate it out to DNS's, but I can get domains on godaddy up and pointed to my server in about ten minutes..

[crunchysuperman]

That gameilluminati site has been around for ages. I remember it back in the GodGames era.

[Kathy]

Quote

Well, I'm back to that Non-believer status.

I couldn't stop laughing my ass off. Guys, you're awesome.

Ok, maybe it is a joke. But what's the point of this joke? Publicity? Releasing uber-trailer(and with that kind of material I bet your ass they could have) with release date at the end would have given them more publicity than this "prank". This prank is just purely pointless.

[megamustaine]

 Duke Rocks, on May 12 2009, 12:08 PM, said:

People seriously need to stop dwelling on this "30 cars parked outside" rumor.

For all we know, the new occupants of the building have already moved in.......

I don't think George will ever comment on the situation. If he was going to talk, he would've already. If it was some big prank, it would have been over by now(and it would've played out quite differently, being only a prank and all).

But it's the real deal. Since when has George ever been overly loose with his lips about what was really happening to them in Garland? Never.

The fact that there is no "official" word so far makes me believe there will never be. As I said earlier, I'm 100% positive of this scenario:

1. The DNF team just wasn't able to pull stuff together and couldn't work cohesively as a team(see that shacknews post by one of the ex team members).

2. They just took too long and were overly ambitious, unorganized and lazy to boot- all the while being run by a perfectionist known as George.

3. The whole "no deadlines" philosophy and throwing out completed content because it wasn't quite up to snuff contributed greatly to their downfall as well.

4. George realized the project was fucked and that they hadn't completed enough of the game itself for the graphics engine to still be competitive by the time the game was ready to ship.

5. George didn't want to cut back on any of the content and release DNF as anything less than the dream he had for it.

6. Unwilling to compromise or just backed into corner with too many loose ends to tie together, George canned the game himself realizing it would never be what he intended it to be.

7. Pretty much the same mistake that was made in 2001-2002 had repeated itself, yet this time on an even grander scale. Realizing how ridiculous it would be to start over yet again, George had no choice but to pull the plug on DNF.

8. I'm sure money had something to with it too. If money was not an issue, I'm willing to bet that they'd have hired more guys and then finished up the game. But with so much to do, even the team of 30 was understaffed, and with the work ethics(or lack thereof) reportedly practiced by the then-existing team, it was mission impossible. George realized this and decided to let everyone go, after coming to the revelation that in it's current state, the game would never be completed in the way he had hoped it would be nor in a timely manner.

9. Now can you imagine why George hasn't posted anything? Don't expect to hear from him ever again. He messed up big time and monumentally screwed so many people over that he doesn't want to bring anymore attention to himself. I genuinely feel sorry for the guy. Really. He was a really nice person, if word can be believed and he really meant the best for Duke. Do you think he thought to himself "Hahaha, I'm going to soil the franchise and screw myself out of millions upon millions while disappointing numerous fans at the same time?" No. Duke 3D was an amazing game. One of the best and most innovative FPSs ever. George had seen too many games not live up to their predecessors and be hyped beyond what they delivered and he was rightfully paranoid that DNF would become the same. With such success from Duke 3D, you almost can't blame him for being overly ambitious.

He was trying for something big. Real big. And now he knows it was bigger than he could ever handle.

Game over.

This is grasping at straws just as much as the conspiracy theories are, if not more so. Nobody has moved into the building, and that is a FACT. Be willing to bet anything on that. Also the theory surrounding T2 doesn't make much sense when at the end of April, the president of T2 had kind words to say about 3DR. In an interview he said that they visit with 3DR regularly and that sometimes they go to the 3DR HQ and sometimes George goes to T2 HQ. The bottom line is that without facts we are all left in the dark on both sides, whether you believe the closure of 3DR to be true or not. The 5mil figure, George requesting funding, and T2 telling him no are all rumors. On top of that, placing together Twits from George B that are weeks apart is kind of ludicrous. Who the hell knows what a simple no meant, but I certainly don't think everything he twits about has to do with DNF. Next thing you know people will be trying to tell me how the LOTR proves that 3DR had a dispute with T2 and shut down.

[mrsunshines]

"So either we're absolutely stupid and clueless, or we believe in what we are working on. In the end, you guys will judge the final results." - George Broussard, May 29, 2003

I believe that the latter of this quote is probably true. The guys at 3drealms believed in what they worked, unfortunately put their faith on a stupid and clueless man named George Broussard.

As for attacking 2k, what the hell does the publisher have to do with this??! The fact that they even supported them for that many years without ever seeing the product says something about them. Most companies that don't produce within the usual 2-3 year dev cycle are shut down. Now granted they funded themselves, my point is that blaming 2k makes no sense.

"When it's done" is a fine philosophy to make games, so long as that doesn't being the company down. I think George needs to stop being ass and let the fans know what's what. Or admit he's a complete cluster fuck and let everyone down. Those photos of BBQ and the staff on their final day at 3drealms has garnered the wrong reaction from most people. I would pissed if all my work was surmised by a few photos and un-finished leaked artwork/video.

[Kristian Joensen]

"Seems little odd, just a login, someone seems hiding something if I had to take a guess. So heres the URL,
and another one, with which most of you are already familiar:"

We already know what it is, from Scott's Linkedin profile:

"As part of this, 3DR runs the largest, most influential underground developer-only discussion group in the industry, since 2001."

[MasterMike569]

 megamustaine, on May 12 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

This is grasping at straws just as much as the conspiracy theories are, if not more so. Nobody has moved into the building, and that is a FACT. Be willing to bet anything on that. Also the theory surrounding T2 doesn't make much sense when at the end of April, the president of T2 had kind words to say about 3DR. In an interview he said that they visit with 3DR regularly and that sometimes they go to the 3DR HQ and sometimes George goes to T2 HQ. The bottom line is that without facts we are all left in the dark on both sides, whether you believe the closure of 3DR to be true or not. The 5mil figure, George requesting funding, and T2 telling him no are all rumors. On top of that, placing together Twits from George B that are weeks apart is kind of ludicrous. Who the hell knows what a simple no meant, but I certainly don't think everything he twits about has to do with DNF. Next thing you know people will be trying to tell me how the LOTR proves that 3DR had a dispute with T2 and shut down.

I think George and T2 execs need to go out and get hammered then go back and play some DNF and its a sealed deal. Maybe throw some strippers in the mix for good measure and a couple of months from now we will all be playing DNF, case closed!

[megamustaine]

 mrsunshines, on May 12 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

As for attacking 2k, what the hell does the publisher have to do with this??! The fact that they even supported them for that many years without ever seeing the product says something about them. Most companies that don't produce within the usual 2-3 year dev cycle are shut down. Now granted they funded themselves, my point is that blaming 2k makes no sense.

Nobody is attacking 2k, people are attacking T2. I believe it is premature to attack them when we have no information of what has gone on, but T2 hasn't supported the product for many years. Hell they have never supported the project. Maybe moral support, but that is about it. Their job is to sit back and watch, unless they want to fund the project. So far they haven't put a single penny into the project. So I don't want to hear about T2's patience with the project.

[Kathy]

 EviL AnGeL, on May 12 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

If you take it as the "No." means FUUUUUUUU then why would he carry on posting about Direct Tv, pressing issues and LOTR fan films.

Because he likes to communicate with people. You think he shouldn't have uttered a single word since that "No"? Twitter is not official DNF info-board. It's just George's twitter.

[Sinisterambo]

I remembered an interview transcript I read (before the closure news) which I can't find today. I was wondering if any of you guys had seen it too.

It was with the president of Take 2 and went something along the lines of:-

Q. Didn't George come to show you the game recently?

A. No, uh not really. I'm sure George will release the game when and if it gets done.

Ring any bells?