[Nukey]

Fox, on 08 May 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Also... 294: Duke: "It's down to you and me, you one-eyed freak!" They wanted Duke to say that to Cyberkeef or what?

I don't think so (that sound in particular appears in several of the "missing sound" lists). My current theory is that they used a large packing script (or several smaller ones) to bundle together the PMP files, and just made errors along the way. It would be easy to screw up with this volume of information to juggle around.

[Fox]

Nukey, on 08 May 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

No, I meant the sample rate file that I sent you whenever I last worked on this project. It was months ago.

Oh. No problem, there was nothing I could do with it on my own.

Nukey, on 08 May 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

As a side note though, you're adding everything from "PMP_Sound_Definitions.txt", right? Don't use the E1L9 version.

Yes, I used the general one.

[Hendricks266]

More progress on my end.

http://hendricks266....almeltdown.html

[Mr. Nukem Roses]

Hendricks266, on 08 May 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

More progress on my end.

http://hendricks266....almeltdown.html

lol

[Mav3r1ck]

Now that I know how to more or less add new sounds. Do you acutally have to edit the game.con to get those sounds to be used by Duke?

[Fox]

Yes.

[Mav3r1ck]

Fox, on 09 May 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Yes.

Thought so. So what would I have to do, is there a tutorial on that?

[Fox]

Like I said before, you must edit jib_sounds in GAME.CON, however it requires more knowledge of CON.

[Nukey]

Mav3r1ck, on 09 May 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Thought so. So what would I have to do, is there a tutorial on that?

Crack open GAME.CON in a text editor, search for the first instance of "state jib_sounds". You'll see a big ugly function with a shitload of brackets and "ifrnd 128". This function ends at "ends" (end state).

Basically all "state jib_sounds" is doing is flipping a penny over and over until it's narrowed down which sound to play.

If you want to stick a new sound in there, you'll have to stitch in some new code. This would turn into a CON tutorial thread if I tried to elaborate any more than that.

Skim through this for details whenever you're stuck on something in the CON files: http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Confaq42

[Mav3r1ck]

Fox, on 09 May 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Like I said before, you must edit jib_sounds in GAME.CON, however it requires more knowledge of CON.

Yeah, I still remember from when you told me. At first I looked into tutorials how and I understood as that by editing just the user.con and defs.con it would work, but instead I looked into the game.con and thought that I needed to edit that as well.

Nukey, on 09 May 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

Crack open GAME.CON in a text editor, search for the first instance of "state jib_sounds". You'll see a big ugly function with a shitload of brackets and "ifrnd 128". This function ends at "ends" (end state).

Basically all "state jib_sounds" is doing is flipping a penny over and over until it's narrowed down which sound to play.

If you want to stick a new sound in there, you'll have to stitch in some new code. This would turn into a CON tutorial thread if I tried to elaborate any more than that.

Skim through this for details whenever you're stuck on something in the CON files: http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Confaq42

I'ma take a crack at it. Besides I have the atomic disc, so if I mess up the cons I can just get the originals off it.

EDIT: FINALLY, I was able to figure out how to imput this stuff. At first I looked at the coding Nukey pointed out and decided to do some copy & pasting and simply renaimed the duplicated existing speeches into my own custom ones. At first it didn't work because I either got errors and Eduke would close or that it said that I didn't have enough "else" or "if", so I was looking at it for a moment and was able to figure it out and was able to get it to work with doing some more copying and pasting and a little rework.

[Nukey]

Fox:

Sound files 91, 231, and 232 are 100% identical. Even the source files are 100% identical. All of them are used in at least one map, and they all share the same global definition values.

231 and 232 will require different definition names of course, but you can refer all three definitions to the file for sound 91, then delete the other two.

edit: Found a bunch more duplicate sound files. You probably became aware of all these while putting the info in your definition files.

[Fox]

Not really, I only noticed the ones which have the same bytes or the same file names in the PC.

Edit: I am quite not right, they do have the same bytes.

[nukemania]

Fox, on 07 May 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

...

So far, I have figured this out:

Monsters gib/gore:

• "Fire in the hole, asshole!"
  
• "They don't make em' better than me"
  
• "So many assholes, so few bullets."
  
• "Squeal piggy, squeal!"
  
• "Nobody wears flares... and lives."
  
• "Suck on this!"
  
• "You outta here."

Unknown:

• "God damn aliens."
  
• "Never meet an alien I couldn't kill."
  
• "Haha... makin' bacon!"

In all the time I played Duke Nukem Total Meltdown, I never had Duke say the bolded lines when monsters gib/gore. In fact, I never heard him say those lines in the game, ever. I've played through 2 discs of the game over the years. I recall him saying these lines:

"Fire in the hole, asshole!"
"Suck it down!"
"Bitchin'!"
"You guys suck!"
"Holy shit!"
"Eat shit and die."
"Heheheh, what a mess."
"Let god sort 'em out."

Maybe a couple of others, too. I think I heard the "wears flares" line once or twice, but not too sure.

[Fox]

Like I pointed out, these lines are only present in a few levels.

[nukemania]

Ah, good point. I quickly skimmed through the spoiler text when I saw it a few days ago.

[Nukey]

Okay Fox, here's some more info. I'll double-check for more duplicates later, but I think this is the complete list.

The following sounds are exact duplicates of each other:
6, 98, and 116
7 and 154
9, 14, and 17
35, 70, and 106
50, and 125
70 and 106
83 and 212
91, 231, and 232
109 and 122
111 and 117
112 and 127
113 and 118
114 and 119
121 and 126
123 and 128
142 and 160
156, 158, and 246

You can safely delete all of the duplicates and just keep the first sound of each entry.


The following sounds are effectively duplicates of each other: (Sample-for-sample they are identical, but I have reason to believe that these actually used different filenames when they were compiled into the PMPs)
68 and 194
90 and 92
148 and 170
171 and 255

With this list I recommend deleting 90, 170, 171, and 194 since they have extra unnecessary data.


I also had this written down and I don't remember if I've posted it yet:

The following sounds are setup as though they should have existed, but do not:
108
136
184
235
278
285
324
343


And finally, I went back and updated that enormous spoiler tagged post on the previous page. Seems I missed a few sound numbers the first time around, that should be fixed now.

[Fox]

Nukey, on 11 May 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

but I have reason to believe that these actually used different filenames when they were compiled into the PMPs)

It's a theory that would explain why they have different data, but it doesn't seems to be true:

#68 and #194 - FIRE09.VOC
#90 and #92 - DRIP3.VOC
#148 and #170 - GRIND.VOC
#171 and #255 - ENGHUM.VOC

My guess is that, considering all the mess, they packed the sound manually and at different times.

By the way, I assume you checked that all sounds have the same data from one PMPs to another, right? Because I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the case.

Nukey, on 11 May 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I also had this written down and I don't remember if I've posted it yet:

The following sounds are setup as though they should have existed, but do not:

Yeah, you posted that already.

They are missing mostly because, with the exception of COMM_RECOG and #343, these are only used in a single map. (That is, assuming that #324 and #343 are a roaming sound for Zombie Pig Cop and a new speech, respectively.)

Edit: #343 is only present in E4L3, so it's most likely another roaming sound for the Zombie Pig Cop, despite being listed among the speeches. That makes a total of six sounds, just like the Pig Cop and Pig-in-a-Dress.

[Nukey]

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

It's a theory that would explain why they have different data, but it doesn't seems to be true:

#68 and #194 - FIRE09.VOC
#90 and #92 - DRIP3.VOC
#148 and #170 - GRIND.VOC
#171 and #255 - ENGHUM.VOC

Yes I'm aware that they use the same file names in PC, but regardless, it appears they had different file names (or file extensions) in PSX.

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

My guess is that, considering all the mess, they packed the sound manually and at different times.

Actually, excluding E1L9, it appears that they've packed everything together simultaneously (or at the very least, using the same definitions and the same group of sound files). I am still not sure whether they used one large packing script, or several smaller ones, but so far I'm leaning more towards the former.

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

By the way, I assume you checked that all sounds have the same data from one PMPs to another, right? Because I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the case.

Conversely, I expected them to be consistent across all PMP files, and up to this point that appears to be true.

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Yeah, you posted that already.
They are missing mostly because, with the exception of COMM_RECOG and #343, these are only used in a single map. (That is, assuming that #324 and #343 are a roaming sound for Zombie Pig Cop and a new speech, respectively.)

Edit: #343 is only present in E4L3, so it's most likely another roaming sound for the Zombie Pig Cop, despite being listed among the speeches. That makes a total of six sounds, just like the Pig Cop and Pig-in-a-Dress.

I can't really comment on this stuff since it requires being familiar with the game itself. Although, I'm not sure why their appearing in a single PMP file means they automatically should be missing. I can understand it increasing the odds. What I find surprising about these missing sounds is that nobody happened to notice their absence before releasing the game. It's a pretty major oversight to have a silent enemy, ain't it?

edit: COMM_RECOG and #343 are not exceptions... they both only appear once.

[Fox]

It should be, but there are bigger problems in this game.

[Nukey]

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

They are missing mostly because, with the exception of COMM_RECOG and #343, these are only used in a single map.

Well that can't be true. Here are about 5 times as many sounds that are only defined once in a single map and do exist:

33, 75, 90, 92, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 150, 151, 153, 180, 208, 215, 237, 250, 273, 280, 302, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 333, 334, 342

[Fox]

I didn't meant that the sounds were intentionally excluded. For example, the Sentry Drones is silent for most of episode 2. So you can expect that if a sound that is used only in one map will be left behind...

[Nukey]

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I didn't meant that the sounds were intentionally excluded. For example, the Sentry Drones is silent for most of episode 2.

I didn't mean they were intentionally excluded either. The fact that some enemies are completely silent should be proof enough for us that these omissions were accidental.

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

So you can expect that if a sound that is used only in one map will be left behind...

It does seem intuitive to expect that, but now we have a 5:1 ratio saying that we can't expect that, because it's not true.


Here's some more info about those 8 missing sounds:

sound 108 - 24080 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is within 20-30 samples - was likely identical) [B3DIE03G]
sound 136 - 21756 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is within 20-30 samples - was likely identical) [COMMRG]
sound 184 - 68908 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is shorter - they probably modified the sound) [AMB81B]
sound 235 - 30716 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is almost exact - was likely identical) [FORCE01]
sound 278 - 71540 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is shorter, either modified or new sound) [KTITX]
sound 285 - 22428 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is within 20-30 samples - was likely identical) [JONES04]
sound 324 - 12600 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav dump is shorter - either modified or new sound) [ANNOY03]
sound 343 - 26964 samples @ 11025Hz (test pc wav wouldn't dump for me because voc format sucks. this was probably a new sound) [BQSHOCK3]

edit: Taking the sound definitions into consideration, it appears that only the last two were most likely exclusive sounds, and 184 / 278 were modified (maybe the KTIT sound was even rerecorded?).

[Fox]

I am quite sure the last two sounds are modified version of ROAM67 and PIGRM.

[Nukey]

Fox, on 11 May 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

I am quite sure the last two sounds are modified version of ROAM67 and PIGRM.

You're more familiar with this game, so I'll take your word for it and put that in my notes. Are they in that order?

[Fox]

No.

This is also speculation. Basically the Zombie Pig Cop is missing two roaming sounds, and there are two missing sounds listed in E4L3 data, which is the only level which the Zombie Pig Cop appears in.

[Nukey]

Okay well how about this:

sound 324 - 12600 samples @ 11025Hz

sound 205 - 12600 samples @ 11025Hz [ROAM67]

That's confirmation enough for me. That also means it would have been a duplicate with a different filename. No idea on the other sound yet, though.

edit: I think you already mentioned this yourself, but based on sound number and definition placement, and sound definition values, the evidence is stacking up strongly in favour of the remaining sound (343) having been a Duke quote. Damn, unless Jon St. John has records (or one hell of a memory), we'll never know what the only missing quote was! Whatever it was, it was 2.44 seconds long, so about the length of "They don't make 'em better than me".

[Nukey]

Fox:

I know this is probably completely obvious, but I forgot to mention it earlier, so just in case:

When you're deleting all those duplicates, remember to give the duplicate sound numbers a unique definition name and point them towards the one file you decide to keep.

[Fox]

Nukey, on 11 May 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

Damn, unless Jon St. John has records (or one hell of a memory), we'll never know what the only missing quote was! Whatever it was, it was 2.44 seconds long, so about the length of "They don't make 'em better than me".

So far I managed to witness 7 out of 10 sounds in real gameplay, and all these are gore/gibs related.

The only other sound present in a single level is "Nobody wears flares... and lives.", which follows the theme of this level (a disco club). So I will guess this line would be a reference to horror genres.

[Nukey]

Okay, I've analyzed the sound stuff to death. I've got some other projects to tend to now.

Hendricks, I might poke around the texture stuff extremely passively. Let me know if you start working on it, so I can relay whatever useful info I may have by then.

[NNC]

As long as we are waiting, people should tell what are their favourite levels in this episode.

I actually think Nightmare Zone, Trackside Tragedy and Gates Motel are the best ones. NZ is great because of the layout, the huge number of secrets, puzzles, and of course the dressed up pigs are a great addition. The references to Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider are well spot on. TT is very good as well, mainly because it's the only level in Duke history (AFAIK) which take place around a race track. And it uses some funky colors in the right way. Gates Motel uses the scary/horror theme in a different way. The emphasis is less on the scare factor, but more on the "lost in a maze" factor. Should have used less Enforcers and more ambient sounds though. The zombie pig is great.

I'm not a big fan of Duke Royale and Alien Rendezvous. DR looks like your average city level without any outstanding areas, while AR is more like a "kaizo" level with way too many Battlelords and lukewarm texturing. It's really a random basement place aside from the spaceship in the end.

Ministry of Fear is certainly better than the last two, but not as good as the first 3. The disco atmosphere is good, but the layout is somewhat clueless, and some texturing is questionable. I'm not a fan of the boss itself, because it's just a modified Battlelord with noobish graphics.