[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Hey guys, I have uploaded a beta of a new version to test out. You can download it from the page at Fissile Materials: http://fissile.duke4..._attrition.html

I have been playing around with it and haven't noticed any bugs with the new perk, but I didn't have a lot of time with it. Please let me know what you think. I would like to have a new official version released and uploaded to Mod DB soonish.

Hey Dan! I downloaded and just started a play-through of Metropolitan Mayhem to give you feedback faster. I will try to play with the perk as much as possible.

[Danukem]

To testers:

I found these 2 bugs since uploading the beta last night, so you don't need to report them:

• Once you have doubled perk, laser gun will display as doubled even if its ammo is too low to fire doubled
  
• Using previous weapon key to change weapons will skip over the laser pistol in many cases

I have fixed both of these on my end.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

To testers:

I found these 2 bugs since uploading the beta last night, so you don't need to report them:

• Once you have doubled perk, laser gun will display as doubled even if its ammo is too low to fire doubled
  
• Using previous weapon key to change weapons will skip over the laser pistol in many cases

I have fixed both of these on my end.

Hello!
So I finished a Metropolitan Mayhem play-through and aside from the laser pistol bug that you found and fixed I also found the following:

1) Using the Battlelord Auto-Cannon weapon Alt-Fire while also having the Double Weapons perk and enough ammo only shoots 1 grenade and consumes the appropriate 10 ammo.

2) Using a Keycard when you have the Invulnerability Shield power-up active makes the shield visual effect briefly disappear while the card is being used to unlock the door.

Also, should Metropolitan Mayhem end after beating The Bitch? You defined the other boss levels and the secret level after it but the game ends when the Alien Queen dies.

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 09 September 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Hello!
So I finished a Metropolitan Mayhem play-through and aside from the laser pistol bug that you found and fixed I also found the following:

1) Using the Battlelord Auto-Cannon weapon Alt-Fire while also having the Double Weapons perk and enough ammo only shoots 1 grenade and consumes the appropriate 10 ammo.

2) Using a Keycard when you have the Invulnerability Shield power-up active makes the shield visual effect briefly disappear while the card is being used to unlock the door.

Also, should Metropolitan Mayhem end after beating The Bitch? You defined the other boss levels and the secret level after it but the game ends when the Alien Queen dies.

1) I will fix

2) Doesn't sound like a bug

3) Sounds like a bug, but you won't like my solution. I'm going to remove the episode -- I should have done this a long time ago. I really like the maps, but it's not right to have it included like it's part of Attrition. I will, however, add a larger selection of single level user maps to the random episode.

[TheDragonLiner]

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

3) Sounds like a bug, but you won't like my solution. I'm going to remove the episode -- I should have done this a long time ago. I really like the maps, but it's not right to have it included like it's part of Attrition. I will, however, add a larger selection of single level user maps to the random episode.

Actually there's something I don't understand, at the end of the penultimate level (the train level) there are multiple buttons with different names including "The Bitch", therefore I believe it's some sort of "Select your adventure" kinda system but whatever you pick it always sense you to "The Bitch", Is normal (as in pure decoration) or is it a gameplay mechanic bugged out by the mod ?

[Danukem]

TheDragonLiner, on 09 September 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

a gameplay mechanic bugged out by the mod ?

this

For reasons having to do with the multitude of user maps, buttons in Attrition always go to the next defined level, rather than the level number tagged by the button. As I said, the episode will be removed. There may still be a subset of the maps which appear as random levels, but not as an episode.

EDIT: 2 more fixes for when I upload 1.9 beta 2 -- Fixed the bug where frozen jibs are not frozen (introduced by an eduke revision at some point which prevents pal from getting set on projectiles with the setthisprojectile command). Fixed a graphical glitch where the photon torpedo explosions from the new trooper (the helmeted ones) would look like the hug RPG.

I am also going to slow down the enemy difficulty progression. The problem isn't so much difficulty, it's that the progression of enemy types feels rushed.

[Shadow Reborn]

Shadow Reborn, on 09 September 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

2) Using a Keycard when you have the Invulnerability Shield power-up active makes the shield visual effect briefly disappear while the card is being used to unlock the door.

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

2) Doesn't sound like a bug

It is a purely visual glitch. Can be ignored of course.

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

3) Sounds like a bug, but you won't like my solution. I'm going to remove the episode -- I should have done this a long time ago. I really like the maps, but it's not right to have it included like it's part of Attrition. I will, however, add a larger selection of single level user maps to the random episode.

I see. Well maybe it's for the best. However, the episode has some really nice levels. Some levels could be included in Random Missions as you said.

Trooper Dan, on 09 September 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

I am also going to slow down the enemy difficulty progression. The problem isn't so much difficulty, it's that the progression of enemy types feels rushed.

It is definitely a good idea. Even before reaching 1.000.000 score I had to face against golden Super Mechs, Super Protector Drones with a shitload of health and against Mega Blaster Enforcers with a buttload of health that could burst me down in 1-2 seconds. Still, nothing I couldn't handle.
I would like the monsters to progress slightly slower though. The beginning was pretty tough even in "Damn I'm Good".

I am waiting for the new version, Dan.

[king karl]

glad you slowed the monster progression a bit.

about the shock rifle tho: it is a clearly inferior choice to the flamer, its ammo is far less "economic" (it drops the same amount but the ammo needed is far higher) and the flamer can easily get enemies through transparent walls or hit and run. maybe the shock cannon's upgrades are just in need of a bit of re ordering, or perhaps they should all be dropped by 1 (so lv 1 will give alt fire and the shock cannon would start out with bouncing shots at lv 0)

[Danukem]

king karl, on 10 September 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

glad you slowed the monster progression a bit.

about the shock rifle tho: it is a clearly inferior choice to the flamer, its ammo is far less "economic" (it drops the same amount but the ammo needed is far higher) and the flamer can easily get enemies through transparent walls or hit and run. maybe the shock cannon's upgrades are just in need of a bit of re ordering, or perhaps they should all be dropped by 1 (so lv 1 will give alt fire and the shock cannon would start out with bouncing shots at lv 0)

OK, I'll rebalance the ammo amounts given for those two weapons to make their usefulness more equal.

[Shadow Reborn]

king karl, on 10 September 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

about the shock rifle tho: it is a clearly inferior choice to the flamer, its ammo is far less "economic"

While I consider the Shock Cannon far more useful, you simply don't have enough ammo to use it a lot and level it up to high levels. As it is now, it will mostly never be used with the Doubled Weapons perk. A shame since it is my favorite of the new weapons.

Trooper Dan, on 10 September 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

OK, I'll rebalance the ammo amounts given for those two weapons to make their usefulness more equal.

That would be awesome, Dan! :)

[Danukem]

Alright, just uploaded a new beta version to Fissile Materials.

Hopefully I did everything right. At after 3 am, it's hard to tell.

1.9b2 9-11-16
• Removed Metropolitan Mayhem episode and added lots of user maps to random missions
• Reloading pistols takes half as long when the doubled weapon perk is active
• Shock cannon pickups give more ammo
• Rate of enemy progression (i.e. how quickly they get harder) decreased
• Fixed bug where frozen jibs were not actually frozen
• Other minor bug fixes

The big change here is the addition of new user maps and removal of the MM episode (although its individual levels can come up as random missions -- for now, at least). The net effect is to grow the pool of random missions by about 30. The second big change is the rate of enemy progression being decreased. It will take some testing to find out whether this is actually good.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 11 September 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

Alright, just uploaded a new beta version to Fissile Materials.

Hopefully I did everything right. At after 3 am, it's hard to tell.

1.9b2 9-11-16
• Removed Metropolitan Mayhem episode and added lots of user maps to random missions
• Reloading pistols takes half as long when the doubled weapon perk is active
• Shock cannon pickups give more ammo
• Rate of enemy progression (i.e. how quickly they get harder) decreased
• Fixed bug where frozen jibs were not actually frozen
• Other minor bug fixes

The big change here is the addition of new user maps and removal of the MM episode (although its individual levels can come up as random missions -- for now, at least). The net effect is to grow the pool of random missions by about 30. The second big change is the rate of enemy progression being decreased. It will take some testing to find out whether this is actually good.

Awesome! Gonna test ASAP.

[TheDragonLiner]

First playthrough with the new version, First tests, First bugs >_>


1_
I didn't understand yet what's causing it :/

2_ +
Dual Devastator is not affected by lighting, or at least it looks like it conserves the previous one it showed in last time ...
Unlike what the screens show it's not the lighting of the upper gun being inverted with the lower one, it seems it "remembers" the previous lighting and prioritizes it on the current.

For the time being I haven't got the XP glitch somebody mentioned while it was supposed to be fixed. Also the new dual wield perk works fine.

[Danukem]

TheDragonLiner, on 11 September 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

Also the new dual wield perk works fine.

...except for the devastator display bugs you mean! Thanks for the report, I will fix.

[Danukem]

I have just uploaded one more update. It fixes some more display bugs, changes the evil Dukes so they can't hurt themselves but have less health, and includes the latest snapshot. There is no updated documentation this time. Unless more bugs are found this will be the next released version.

EDIT: After some testing, I found a bunch more stuff that I need to fix/change. The official update will probably be another week or so, since I won't have much time to work on it Mon-Fri.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 11 September 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

I have just uploaded one more update. It fixes some more display bugs, changes the evil Dukes so they can't hurt themselves but have less health, and includes the latest snapshot. There is no updated documentation this time. Unless more bugs are found this will be the next released version.

I see. Well, then I'm gonna get the latest version from Fissile and restart. Thanks for the update, Dan!

Trooper Dan, on 11 September 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

EDIT: After some testing, I found a bunch more stuff that I need to fix/change. The official update will probably be another week or so, since I won't have much time to work on it Mon-Fri.

I am gonna try it out as it is now. I'll let you know if something comes up. Maybe I will run into a new issue...

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 12 September 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

I am gonna try it out as it is now. I'll let you know if something comes up. Maybe I will run into a new issue...

If you are going to do that, then supplement it with these CON updates:

https://www.dropbox....ttcons.rar?dl=0

I started playing the War of Attrition (arena) episode and the beginning was way too hard, so I made some adjustments to that and the new troopers. I also found that the shock cannon was way overpowered -- I had gone too far in giving it more ammo, so I nerfed that back a bit too.

Soon I will add a real radar system, at least for arena mode (similar to Duke Forces).

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 12 September 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

If you are going to do that, then supplement it with these CON updates:

https://www.dropbox....ttcons.rar?dl=0

Will do!

Trooper Dan, on 12 September 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

I started playing the War of Attrition (arena) episode and the beginning was way too hard, so I made some adjustments to that and the new troopers. I also found that the shock cannon was way overpowered -- I had gone too far in giving it more ammo, so I nerfed that back a bit too.

Good to hear you made things even more balanced! I hope that, even with the recent nerf, the Shock Cannon will get more ammo drops than before...

Trooper Dan, on 12 September 2016 - 12:39 AM, said:

Soon I will add a real radar system, at least for arena mode (similar to Duke Forces).

That would be cool and helpful!

[TheDragonLiner]

In my playthrough the Shock Cannon did get way more ammo than usual, I almost never ran out of ammo during my play whereas is was more frequent in earlier versions. As for power it's true that I could one shot enemies especially with the dual wield perk. Although I hope its alt fire will still break shields easily with the nerfing ^^

[Danukem]

TheDragonLiner, on 12 September 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

In my playthrough the Shock Cannon did get way more ammo than usual, I almost never ran out of ammo during my play whereas is was more frequent in earlier versions. As for power it's true that I could one shot enemies especially with the dual wield perk. Although I hope its alt fire will still break shields easily with the nerfing ^^

Yeah, when you get it to level 5 or higher and you have doubled weapons, it just chews through everything super fast, and if there is plenty of ammo you never have to switch weapons and it makes a joke out of the whole game imo. Those latest cons I posted above are supposed to address this, but may not go far enough.

[Shadow Reborn]

I got to the end of WOA and a critical bug stopped me from finishing it. Recon Cars killed while having the "Slain Enemies Become Allies" perk active will join your cause but when it dies, the Pig inside will not be your ally. It will count as a monster. The "joined" Recon Cars will automatically die when the wave ends thus spawning the enemy Pigs. I tried not killing them at all or killing them fast before the counter for the next wave had finished but the next and final wave (I think) with the Big Boss did not spawn no matter what because of this. So I was stuck.

The second issue is smaller: while having the "Dual Weapons" perk active with enough ammo, the Flamer Alt-Fire does not shoot 2 balls of fire at a time, as it should. The issue is similar to the BattleLord Auto-Cannon one that I reported and you fixed.

Also, interesting new rare power-up: Death-Rage restore.

TheDragonLiner, on 12 September 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

In my playthrough the Shock Cannon did get way more ammo than usual, I almost never ran out of ammo during my play whereas is was more frequent in earlier versions. As for power it's true that I could one shot enemies especially with the dual wield perk. Although I hope its alt fire will still break shields easily with the nerfing ^^

Trooper Dan, on 12 September 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Yeah, when you get it to level 5 or higher and you have doubled weapons, it just chews through everything super fast, and if there is plenty of ammo you never have to switch weapons and it makes a joke out of the whole game imo. Those latest cons I posted above are supposed to address this, but may not go far enough.

The Shock Cannon is extremely strong even early on but there is indeed less ammo for it. With "Dual Weapons" perk active it runs out of ammo so goddamned fast.

Also, the Shock Cannon Alt-Fire with "Dual Weapons" perk active kills my FPS so badly. Pretty sure this doesn't happen because my system cannot take it.
There are simply too many particles spawned by those two beams simultaneously. The same goes for the Dual Freezer Alt-Fire (when it is an ice beam) though not as bad.
The fights in the final WOA level are pretty rich in particles and sprites and that adds up to the problem.

Update: In some unknown circumstances, the "Dual Weapons" perk causes both Expanders' red egg effect on the weapons to become green for both weapons. Once you consume enough ammo and the Expander reverts back to one wield, the egg effect on the weapon will turn red as it should be.

[TheDragonLiner]

Weird, in my play the Expander worked alright and didn't get that bug you described, there must be some very specific circumstances to it or it's just random, pretty much the same uncertainty as with my first double devastator glitch :/

What's your system like ?
You say Duel Freezer and Dual Alt Shock Cannon slows down your framerate by alot, it's not the case on my end while I don't have any graphic card (actually the fact I can run DukePlus HRP Polymost might make me underestimate my PC ...)

[Shadow Reborn]

TheDragonLiner, on 12 September 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

What's your system like ?
You say Duel Freezer and Dual Alt Shock Cannon slows down your framerate by alot, it's not the case on my end while I don't have any graphic card (actually the fact I can run DukePlus HRP Polymost might make me underestimate my PC ...)

It is not a problem regarding the system. I can run way more demanding games. The system I used this time is a laptop with an I5 processor with 4Gb RAM and an NVidia NVS 5400M video card. However for Duke (non-HRP) I really have to use the Integrated HD Graphics 4000 one not the NVidia card or the game will not full-screen properly at launch. The integrated one is not much worse than the NVidia one and it should run Duke perfectly as it runs other more complex applications.

[king karl]

so i tried the dual weapon perk and i really like some weapons doubled, but with others its more of a hindrance than a benefit, i simply dont have enough expander ammo or devastator ammo or freezer ammo to make it worth having.......maybe it could only double certain weapons? or maybe it could be split up into multiple smaller perks (double starter weapons, double explosive weapons, double advanced weapons)

starter being pistol, shotgun, chaingun cannon, explosive being devastator, pipebomb and rpg. and advanced being all the rest. i would atleast take the doubled starter weapons perk...but in its present form i dont think i could make use of it

also....how about a perk that lets us randomly keep one weapon/ that weapon's ammo at the end of a level....i know the original reason for no weapon carry overs was some maps might have their continuity messed up by giving us explosives too early but.....then again......we have double jump

[Danukem]

Those suggestions sound too complicated for what I want to do, but I will be making the ammo cutoffs change depending on the max ammo amounts (which increase with backpack upgrades), so that should alleviate the problem with the doubled weapons being a hindrance on some weapons.

[Shadow Reborn]

Shadow Reborn, on 12 September 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

I got to the end of WOA and a critical bug stopped me from finishing it. Recon Cars killed while having the "Slain Enemies Become Allies" perk active will join your cause but when it dies, the Pig inside will not be your ally. It will count as a monster. The "joined" Recon Cars will automatically die when the wave ends thus spawning the enemy Pigs. I tried not killing them at all or killing them fast before the counter for the next wave had finished but the next and final wave (I think) with the Big Boss did not spawn no matter what because of this. So I was stuck.

As a follow-up to this conclusion I also loaded a save that was before selecting the "Slain Enemies Become Allies" perk. I finished the wave normally and again the presumably final wave did not spawn. However, I did use the Expander to clone a few fiends throughout the level. Maybe the clones are the problem in this map or maybe there is an entirely different explanation...

Shadow Reborn, on 12 September 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

Also, the Shock Cannon Alt-Fire with "Dual Weapons" perk active kills my FPS so badly. Pretty sure this doesn't happen because my system cannot take it.
There are simply too many particles spawned by those two beams simultaneously. The same goes for the Dual Freezer Alt-Fire (when it is an ice beam) though not as bad.
The fights in the final WOA level are pretty rich in particles and sprites and that adds up to the problem.

I tested on another, more powerful system than the laptop and the lag is extremely seldom or nonexistent. It appears that Attrition uses a lot of resources when certain particles are produced at once. Maybe EDuke is struggling with these simultaneous effects and particles and needs a very good system to run Attrition smoothly.


I hope you looked at my previous report, Dan, the one that also contains the above quoted text. There were more issues in there.

[TheDragonLiner]

I'm also wondering if it ain't the security measures of EDuke creating said lag when many sprite spawn ...

BTW I noticed something "weird", the dual wielded Expander has the left one lacking the blackness in the crystal chamber unlike the one on the right. I don't know if the Shrinker has the same issue I didn't have the occasion to have it doubled :/

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 13 September 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

As a follow-up to this conclusion I also loaded a save that was before selecting the "Slain Enemies Become Allies" perk. I finished the wave normally and again the presumably final wave did not spawn. However, I did use the Expander to clone a few fiends throughout the level. Maybe the clones are the problem in this map or maybe there is an entirely different explanation...

I'm going to review the wave advancement code and everything related to it in an effort to make it bug-proof. It's likely that something got broken in an earlier update and that no one had noticed it because people weren't playing the mod.

I'll fix the alt-fire bug on the flamer, but I don't know what I can do regarding the performance issues you are having. EDIT: I just fixed the flamer bug on my end.

EDIT2: Can you tell me the wave number of the last working wave on WOA mode? And was it a regular wave (large mix of different monster types), or was it a wave a bosses?

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 13 September 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

EDIT2: Can you tell me the wave number of the last working wave on WOA mode? And was it a regular wave (large mix of different monster types), or was it a wave a bosses?

Certainly. The last working wave is 43 (with 25 mixed monsters), before that if I recall, there were like 9 Cycloids. Once 43 is completed the countdown appears and once it counts down, the next wave does not spawn and neither does the Attrition monster counter show up for it and nor does the wave name appear. So I can roam the level forever with no monsters...

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 13 September 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Certainly. The last working wave is 43 (with 25 mixed monsters), before that if I recall, there were like 9 Cycloids. Once 43 is completed the countdown appears and once it counts down, the next wave does not spawn and neither does the Attrition monster counter show up for it and nor does the wave name appear. So I can roam the level forever with no monsters...

Yep, I just verified that myself, thanks. It goes to wave -1 and the super boss is supposed to appear, but he doesn't. It shouldn't be too hard to fix.