[DJHellray]

BoowHow, on 21 September 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

Wouldn't they still need to be edited to use Duke's hand?

not if its already been done like the duke nukem 64 tc he could probably use those for a random weapon of each type and thats already 2 weps each

[Danukem]

DJHellray, on 21 September 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

i've been thinking about it. is there a way to ad a weapon randomiser? like having a diffrent gun skin and sound for ever gun i think i know it would take a while to code but it could be pretty damn cool

- just the skins and sounds that change but the projectiles are the same so you could just get skins from allot of other guns in any duke gamemodes or even doom wads and stuff.

That's a lot of work to do for something purely cosmetic. Something I have considered in the past is adding a bunch of new weapons and then creating a loadout choice screen at the beginning of the game so you have to pick one weapon that will be obtainable on each slot for the entire duration of the game

As for as new perks: one I might add is the detect secrets perk that I coded for Duke Forces. With hundreds of possible maps that are hard to all memorize, being able to see the general location of a nearby secret could be very useful. Another good one might be auto-medkit (if you are taking fatal damage and have medkit, it would use the medkit to save your life). A perk to help with ammo consumption is also a good idea, but simply making ammo containers hold more is not very exciting (it's easy to implement and useful, though).

I like the glory kill system in the new Doom, and I also like how the chainsaw makes enemies drop ammo. It would be cool to somehow combine the two in Duke 3D. What if there was a perk where if you press the interact/open key when near an enemy, it initiates a glory kill and it makes the enemy drop health and ammo. There would be an icon appearing over the enemy's head showing that they are weak enough for the move to work (and you are close enough). I can't make new animations for every enemy and situation, so it would probably work by giving Duke a chainsaw (and there are sprites for that already) and then having him swing through the enemy while they gib. EDIT: To balance it, it would have a charge meter kind of like the nuke which you charge by getting kills with regular weapons

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 22 September 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

As for as new perks: one I might add is the detect secrets perk that I coded for Duke Forces. With hundreds of possible maps that are hard to all memorize, being able to see the general location of a nearby secret could be very useful.

This is an epic idea and I actually wanted to suggest this too but I thought that maybe it won't matter.

Trooper Dan, on 22 September 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

Another good one might be auto-medkit (if you are taking fatal damage and have medkit, it would use the medkit to save your life).

It would certainly help later on in the game!

Trooper Dan, on 22 September 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

A perk to help with ammo consumption is also a good idea, but simply making ammo containers hold more is not very exciting (it's easy to implement and useful, though).

So at least, in a way, we will get a perk that helps us have more ammo later on in order to be able to use more weapons as well as the Doubled Weapons perk.

Trooper Dan, on 22 September 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

I like the glory kill system in the new Doom, and I also like how the chainsaw makes enemies drop ammo. It would be cool to somehow combine the two in Duke 3D. What if there was a perk where if you press the interact/open key when near an enemy, it initiates a glory kill and it makes the enemy drop health and ammo. There would be an icon appearing over the enemy's head showing that they are weak enough for the move to work (and you are close enough). I can't make new animations for every enemy and situation, so it would probably work by giving Duke a chainsaw (and there are sprites for that already) and then having him swing through the enemy while they gib. EDIT: To balance it, it would have a charge meter kind of like the nuke which you charge by getting kills with regular weapons

That is a neat idea! It is rewarding and makes you feel powerful as well. I also think that the player should not have the Chainsaw as a normal weapon but only use it to gib enemies in the circumstances described, so that way, it will feel special when you get a finisher attack in.
I am definitely looking forward to this stuff!

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 22 September 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

That is a neat idea! It is rewarding and makes you feel powerful as well. I also think that the player should not have the Chainsaw as a normal weapon but only use it to gib enemies in the circumstances described, so that way, it will feel special when you get a finisher attack in.

Yeah that's the idea, there would be no other way to select the chainsaw. If you have built up the chainsaw charge, you just press the use key when near the enemy with the enemy in your sights. The chainsaw appears in your hands for a moment to replace the weapon you are holding, and you auto-aim and auto-move to the enemy and kill him with it. It would take about 1.25 seconds, during which time you cannot do anything else but you cannot take damage from the enemy you are killing. You can still take damage from other enemies, though. The enemy is guaranteed to drop a few random health items and a few random ammo items. The chainsaw would disappear and be replaced by the regular weapon you were holding as soon as the animation is done.

[DJHellray]

to be honest i liked the chainsaw in doom but not the glory kill system it didint feel doom at all.

also for the random gun skin i thought about the 100 guns wad for doom theres literally 100 weapons to choose from but what i wanted was really just for the 10 primary weapons. you could change them for duke carribean and duke 64 for now 3 types of diffrent skins i think that would be cool.

also the auto heal perk would be really really usefull the number of times i have to heal at that high level high score mode is ridiculous.

by the way when duke world tour comes out will you add the episode world tour in your game mode?

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 22 September 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Yeah that's the idea, there would be no other way to select the chainsaw. If you have built up the chainsaw charge, you just press the use key when near the enemy with the enemy in your sights. The chainsaw appears in your hands for a moment to replace the weapon you are holding, and you auto-aim and auto-move to the enemy and kill him with it. It would take about 1.25 seconds, during which time you cannot do anything else but you cannot take damage from the enemy you are killing. You can still take damage from other enemies, though. The enemy is guaranteed to drop a few random health items and a few random ammo items. The chainsaw would disappear and be replaced by the regular weapon you were holding as soon as the animation is done.

Yep, it is awesome! You gotta pick a perfect time when there's a vulnerable enemy in the crowd to slaughter him for your reward! Also, it kinda fixes the ammo problem later in game...
Do you think the player should be able to get this perk fairly early on or later in game?
EDIT: Also, I think that the player should not take damage at all from any source when performing his special finisher move since you probably won't get it very often and at higher levels, when you dive in a crowd to perform this, that second and a quarter can mean your doom. Really, he should be invulnerable just like in the Perks menu during that special moment.

[Danukem]

DJHellray, on 22 September 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

to be honest i liked the chainsaw in doom but not the glory kill system it didint feel doom at all.

That's ok because this isn't Doom. Also, it would only be if you had the perk and only if it is charged, so it won't happen very frequently.

DJHellray, on 22 September 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

by the way when duke world tour comes out will you add the episode world tour in your game mode?

No. And yes, I do have Duke it out in DC levels included, but that expansion is ancient abandonware. Including world tour levels (even if that were possible) would be very dumb.

[DJHellray]

Quote

That's ok because this isn't Doom. Also, it would only be if you had the perk and only if it is charged, so it won't happen very frequently.

okay sounds good then!

Quote

No. And yes, I do have Duke it out in DC levels included, but that expansion is ancient abandonware. Including world tour levels (even if that were possible) would be very dumb.

why would including world tour levels be dumb? and u mean duke Caribbean is abandonware?

[Jblade]

Quote

why would including world tour levels be dumb?

Because it's a new release and Gearbox would not be happy about that.

Quote

and u mean duke Caribbean is abandonware?

It sort of is, because right now there's no way to purchase it online unless it's from ebay or something.

[Danukem]

Anyway, it's not really the glory klll system, it's essentially the new Doom chainsaw but instead of charging it with fuel cans you charge it by getting normal weapon kills. And the max amount of damage is determined by the player's level instead of by how many fuel cans you have.

[Danukem]

I made a video showing the new Buzzsaw Bonanza perk. For testing purposes the player has infinite charges. Still WIP.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 23 September 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

I made a video showing the new Buzzsaw Bonanza perk. For testing purposes the player has infinite charges. Still WIP.

That is brutal! Good stuff, Dan!
I think the monsters should all be turned to mincemeat (gibbed) after the Chainsaw animation is done working on them.

EDIT: I think this kinda solves the need for more ammo much later in game. The ammo drops from the finisher move seem to be generous enough. Perform a few of these and you might just get enough ammo for the Expander, to give an example, ammo which is usually an extremely rare find.

[Danukem]

I have uploaded a new beta version to the Fissile Materials site (NOT on Mod DB yet). It includes the Buzzsaw Bonanza perk. I expect there will be some bugs: testing was minimal.

EDIT: I should add, I did confirm that it works, and it has a charge meter and stuff. What I'm wondering about is how it works on all the different enemies (there might be some issues with fat commanders etc.)

EDIT2: And one more thing. There is a bug which causes the first "random" mission to always be Deathdrive 1. After that, they will actually be random. I have already fixed this on my end, and it's a good starting map anyway, so it's not a big deal.

[TheDragonLiner]

Speaking of starting random missions why is there always a "00:00 Start" map that loads up before the first actual level ?

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 23 September 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

I have uploaded a new beta version to the Fissile Materials site (NOT on Mod DB yet). It includes the Buzzsaw Bonanza perk. I expect there will be some bugs: testing was minimal.

EDIT: I should add, I did confirm that it works, and it has a charge meter and stuff. What I'm wondering about is how it works on all the different enemies (there might be some issues with fat commanders etc.)

Great! Gonna give it a try! Let's see how the finisher works in most cases...

Trooper Dan, on 23 September 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

EDIT2: And one more thing. There is a bug which causes the first "random" mission to always be Deathdrive 1. After that, they will actually be random. I have already fixed this on my end, and it's a good starting map anyway, so it's not a big deal.

Glad it's fixed. I only started one Random Missions play-through and indeed in that one, the first map was Deathdrive 1.

[Danukem]

TheDragonLiner, on 23 September 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

Speaking of starting random missions why is there always a "00:00 Start" map that loads up before the first actual level ?

I didn't know a way (still don't) to make the very first map that is loaded a random selection, so the first map loaded is the first one defined in the episode. I made it into a one-sector map named "START", and the loading of that map initiates the randomizing code, followed by the first actually random map.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 24 September 2016 - 05:50 AM, said:

I didn't know a way (still don't) to make the very first map that is loaded a random selection, so the first map loaded is the first one defined in the episode. I made it into a one-sector map named "START", and the loading of that map initiates the randomizing code, followed by the first actually random map.

Well right now the "Start" map is loading and Shaky Grounds is the map that auto-completes before the randomizing begins...At least no more Deathdrive 1...

[Shadow Reborn]

Found a nice bug:
If you have the Buzzsaw Bonanza perk charged and you are in range of a monster and the symbol shows that you can kill him with the finisher, you can kill the monster with any weapon as long as he is still in range of the finisher and he will drop the loot as if you used the finisher on him. Can be done indefinite on any monster as long as you have 100% Buzzsaw charge.
Once you use the charge properly, things go back to normal.

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Found a nice bug:
If you have the Buzzsaw Bonanza perk charged and you are in range of a monster and the symbol shows that you can kill him with the finisher, you can kill the monster with any weapon as long as he is still in range of the finisher and he will drop the loot as if you used the finisher on him. Can be done indefinite on any monster as long as you have 100% Buzzsaw charge.
Once you use the charge properly, things go back to normal.

I'll fix that right away, thanks for the report.

EDIT: I have attached the latest code which includes a fix for that, if you want that right away.

[Shadow Reborn]

Trooper Dan, on 24 September 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

I'll fix that right away, thanks for the report.

EDIT: I have attached the latest code which includes a fix for that, if you want that right away.

Much obliged. However, I will finish the current play-through of Random Missions without exploiting the bug before I start a new one with the updated .cons.

EDIT: You misspelled Bonanza in the perk selection screen.

EDIT 2: Trying to activate the Invisi-Goggles while not having them in your Inventory and playing in "It's a good day to die" will cause the wrong string to be displayed: "You're too good to be cheating" instead of "Missing Goggles" or smth on the lines of that.

[king karl]

Trooper Dan, on 21 September 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

I appreciate it. If you have ideas for new perks or new enemy variations, go ahead and post them; I might use them. But keep in mind I have considered many ideas before and rejected them for various reasons. In general, if it's a relatively easy to implement idea (i.e. doesn't involve adding new art that I don't have, or changing a lot of code in many different places) that adds something unique and fun to the gameplay without unbalancing the game, then it's good.

oh! how about an enemy variant that causes a massive explosion 1 second after it dies? practically killing anything nearby! it would have to really stand out though, like use the nightvision pal

or a variant that causes a regular enemy of the same type to spawn whenever you hit it with a hitscan weapon

ooooh and how about the bouncing pool floaty enemies from duke carribean as variants for pig tanks? much weaker but much more offensive

oh and why did you add the duke dc levels but not the carribean?

EDIT: so i was thinking about how adding more weapons would work, what if you added rare variants that would be dropped by uncommon monsters? like a rare duke carribean liztroop in the white suit would spawn and he would have a chance to drop the water pistol from duke carribean which would still give xp for pistol when used, would still use regular pistol ammo, and it would have some kind of unique special additional effect which would make it attractive to use (regenerates ammo when in water?) same could be done for alot of weapons and would make them special when you finally found one

[supergoofy]

From what I see the latest version is now uploaded to http://www.moddb.com...ds/attrition-19

Is this v1.9 beta 5 or v1.9 final ?

[Danukem]

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

Much obliged. However, I will finish the current play-through of Random Missions without exploiting the bug before I start a new one with the updated .cons.

EDIT: You misspelled Bonanza in the perk selection screen.

Oops. I'll fix that later.

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

EDIT 2: Trying to activate the Invisi-Goggles while not having them in your Inventory and playing in "It's a good day to die" will cause the wrong string to be displayed: "You're too good to be cheating" instead of "Missing Goggles" or smth on the lines of that.

I can live with that. I did not create the quotes for either the missing goggles or the too good to be cheating one, so it may be an eduke bug that has nothing to do with Attrition.

king karl, on 25 September 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

oh! how about an enemy variant that causes a massive explosion 1 second after it dies? practically killing anything nearby! it would have to really stand out though, like use the nightvision pal

or a variant that causes a regular enemy of the same type to spawn whenever you hit it with a hitscan weapon

Might be fun in some circumstances but extremely annoying in others. Remember that the enemy variants in Attrition will randomly replace regular enemies, so the explosive guy could end replacing a liztroop next to you on a small elevator during a long elevator ride.

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

ooooh and how about the bouncing pool floaty enemies from duke carribean as variants for pig tanks? much weaker but much more offensive

oh and why did you add the duke dc levels but not the carribean?

It's hard to add levels with custom art, because it will conflict with the custom art tile numbers already in the game. When I did that before, I had to add special code to move tile numbers around on the fly, but it was a chore and I would rather not have to reopen that feature to add more custom tiles. The modified weapon and monster art would be a bigger problem. At least with DC I didn't have to deal with special enemies or HUD sprites.

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

EDIT: so i was thinking about how adding more weapons would work, what if you added rare variants that would be dropped by uncommon monsters? like a rare duke carribean liztroop in the white suit would spawn and he would have a chance to drop the water pistol from duke carribean which would still give xp for pistol when used, would still use regular pistol ammo, and it would have some kind of unique special additional effect which would make it attractive to use (regenerates ammo when in water?) same could be done for alot of weapons and would make them special when you finally found one

Managing variations on weapons is not fun. In Attrition, I'm still using EDuke32's weapon code as the base (which is controlled mostly by a lot of variables such as WEAPON2_FIREDELAY, WEAPON3_SHOOTS, etc.). It is all based on the assumption that there are 11 weapon "slots", and each one functions in a certain way depending on those variables that I mentioned plus various hardcoded stuff that can usually be worked around. But this means that I have to carefully manage dynamic changes to weapon functionality when the player levels up a weapon, uses alt-fire on a weapon, switches to a different weapon that is on the same slot as an existing weapon, gets a temporary rate of fire upgrade, gets a temporary akimbo weapon boost, etc. Every time I add more complexity to the weapons, the system gets harder to manage. If I had known that it was going to get this complicated when I started Attrition, I would have designed a custom system from scratch -- but I didn't.

supergoofy, on 25 September 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

From what I see the latest version is now uploaded to http://www.moddb.com...ds/attrition-19

Is this v1.9 beta 5 or v1.9 final ?

1.9 final essentially is 1.9 beta 5 (with a couple of little fixes that I didn't bother to document). So the next revision will be 1.91. I got tired of having files uploaded in 2 different places again.

[The Kins]

Hello! This is a fantastic mod, and I very much enjoy it! However, there's a few things that bug me.

I like to play without the HRP, using the original game's assets. For the most part, Attrition does a pretty good job of blending in with this, but there's a few places where it utterly insists on doing things the HRP way - 3D pigcop gibs and the explosion sprites, for example - and attempting to remove these myself just causes bad things to happen, like invisible explosions.

Are there any plans to better accommodate the original visual style? I feel it'd just make things that bit more... consistent, y'know?

[Micky C]

Trooper Dan, on 25 September 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

It's hard to add levels with custom art, because it will conflict with the custom art tile numbers already in the game. When I did that before, I had to add special code to move tile numbers around on the fly, but it was a chore and I would rather not have to reopen that feature to add more custom tiles. The modified weapon and monster art would be a bigger problem. At least with DC I didn't have to deal with special enemies or HUD sprites.

What about the per-map art loading feature that was introduced a while ago?

It's also a shame that your own extra art isn't placed above the ~32000 original art limit, as no user map would use art in that range.

[FistMarine]

Shadow Reborn, on 24 September 2016 - 03:01 PM, said:

EDIT 2: Trying to activate the Invisi-Goggles while not having them in your Inventory and playing in "It's a good day to die" will cause the wrong string to be displayed: "You're too good to be cheating" instead of "Missing Goggles" or smth on the lines of that.

That's not a bug. This happens when you play on the hardest difficulty and press the "D" key (which is usually bind to strafe right) and then try to type "N" to activate Night Vision Goggles, the game thinks you are trying to cheat by typing DN letters in quick succession and that's why it prints that message.

Trooper Dan, on 25 September 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

Might be fun in some circumstances but extremely annoying in others. Remember that the enemy variants in Attrition will randomly replace regular enemies, so the explosive guy could end replacing a liztroop next to you on a small elevator during a long elevator ride.

What about these kamikaze troopers that you created back then in 2012 for HyperCore mod?

I think they would fit nicely in Attrition.

The Kins, on 26 September 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Hello! This is a fantastic mod, and I very much enjoy it! However, there's a few things that bug me.

I like to play without the HRP, using the original game's assets. For the most part, Attrition does a pretty good job of blending in with this, but there's a few places where it utterly insists on doing things the HRP way - 3D pigcop gibs and the explosion sprites, for example - and attempting to remove these myself just causes bad things to happen, like invisible explosions.

Are there any plans to better accommodate the original visual style? I feel it'd just make things that bit more... consistent, y'know?

I agree about the explosions. I never liked them and they are what caused to crash my game few years ago when all I had was my laptop that couldn't handle the explosions. I thought that deleting the explosions folder would remove them entirely and make game load the older explosions that are closer to original game style.

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 26 September 2016 - 02:36 AM, said:

What about the per-map art loading feature that was introduced a while ago?

It's also a shame that your own extra art isn't placed above the ~32000 original art limit, as no user map would use art in that range.

That didn't exist when I started this mod back in 2010. Can you link me to the documentation on per-map art loading? That could potentially enable the inclusion of many more maps, in a future update.

----

As for the high-res assets: I only use those for effects, such as explosions, smoke, lasers, the pigcop jibs (there are no sprite versions of those by the way) and a few other things. I can see the point about graphical consistency, but having 8-bit versions of everything would take work that I'm not willing to do.

[The Kins]

Trooper Dan, on 26 September 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

the pigcop jibs (there are no sprite versions of those by the way)

This can be arranged... I do see your point, though.

Meanwhile, I got bored and messed around with some new graphics for the menu, just for funsies.


Here's a download with unpalleted versions where appropriate and a couple of variations here and there. I might do some more for Buy Perks etc. later, but I need to sleep.

[Danukem]

The Kins, on 26 September 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

This can be arranged... I do see your point, though.

Meanwhile, I got bored and messed around with some new graphics for the menu, just for funsies.


Here's a download with unpalleted versions where appropriate and a couple of variations here and there. I might do some more for Buy Perks etc. later, but I need to sleep.

Those are great! I will definitely use those. My only quibble is that "Abort" should say "Abort Mission"...otherwise the player will think it means you commit suicide and abort the whole game. Abort Mission just allows you to skip the level in the random missions mode in case you don't like that particular map.

[Shadow Reborn]

The Kins, on 26 September 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

This can be arranged... I do see your point, though.

Meanwhile, I got bored and messed around with some new graphics for the menu, just for funsies.


Here's a download with unpalleted versions where appropriate and a couple of variations here and there. I might do some more for Buy Perks etc. later, but I need to sleep.

These look quite nice and will be at their best in-game.
IMHO, better UI elements are always welcome.