[FistMarine]

What's this thing?
We play through a set of maps/mods during the month, and use this thread to discuss it as we're still all fresh with our comments/opinions/feelings about the maps.

What's the purpose?
Basically, there are 4 purposes:

• Showcasing some of the older mods/maps to wider public - they definitely deserve the attention!
• Getting more people to actually enjoy and appreciate the user content - because let's be honest, over the past 26 years this was really what kept Duke alive after all.
• ...and while we're at it - keeping Duke alive by still enjoying it, as there's no new games in the franchise on the horizon (and let's be honest, they wouldn't be as good as some of this stuff!).
• Having a more structured discussion on maps than what's going in "Last map you played" thread - which is great, but it's basically a monologue most of the time.

Can I join?
Sure, as long as you find some spare time during the month to play the stuff that's on the table!

Why a month?
Because people have lives, jobs or other stuff to do (like mapping). For smaller maps, this could be shorter time - it's all up to debate in the future!

What port should I use? Are mods allowed? Where to get the maps?
It's entirely up to you how you play the game, so you can use whatever port or mod allowed - it would be cool to state in your posts what you're using too, as there might be some slight differences between the ports! As for the maps, they should be always linked within the first post.

How should I play the maps or post about them?
Again, it's up to you. You can finish them all in one go or play them one by one whenever you feel like. On Doom forums, there's a rule that you should keep the pace by not posting about a map that has a higher number than the day of the month, so e.g. on 6th you shouldn't post about map 7 etc. I think that might be a good practice if there's a large interest in this, but first let's see how active the thread is for a start - so if there's nothing going on, feel free to post about whatever map you want to.

Previous editions:

Spoiler

April 2022 - Duke Nukem 3D
March 2022 - Last Reaction & Water Bases + Chimera
February 2022 - DaikariN + Operation Blitzkrieg
January 2022 - ADG Episode + Maps by Alejandro Glavic
December 2021 - Lost Highway + Maps by Peter Kucera and Lukas Cerovsky
November 2021 - Maps by various authors
October 2021 - Maps by Taivo Maripuu
September 2021 - Duke Hard
August 2021 - Maps by Rob Wijkstra (Highwire) and Geoffrey van Dijk (FakirBaba)
July 2021 - Maps by Maarten Pinxten
June 2021 - Roch Series

For this month, Sunstorm Interactive's Duke Nukem 3D addons (Duke It Out In D.C. and Duke Caribbean: Life's a Beach) have been chosen to be played!
Additionally, Penthouse Paradise has been included as a bonus, since it is one level only and it is apparently considered semi-official. It comes with new art included (intended for people who are above 18 years old, you have been warned!). It can be played at any time in the month. For the two main addons, I recommend in the first half of the month, posting about Duke DC, while in the second half, posting about Duke Caribbean. This is important to note because I felt like in the previous month, most people posted all their thoughts of all the episodes too early in the month. I would recommend this time around to be a bit more organized and post the thoughts about the levels, throughout the whole month rather than the first 10-15 days.

Penthouse Paradise (original version) can be downloaded for free right here at the following links:
Fileplanet (original download link)
Gamers.org (mirror)
Dukeworld (mirror)
Be careful with Fileplanet to double check what file you are downloading, as the site might act strangely (like it does on my PC). If you are not sure, you can use one of the mirrors instead!

All expansion packs are included as bonus for buying Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition at Zoom Platform: https://www.zoom-pla...-atomic-edition
I don't have Duke Nukem 3D at Zoom Platform but from what I know, that version comes with all expansions in GRP form, including Penthouse Paradise, which wasn't released officially in this form before! The addon "Duke, It's Zero Hour" (which was planned to get released in retail by WizardWorks, back in 1997) will apparently get added soon, as well! And yes, the remaining expansions will also get nominated later this year.

For those who have the original CDs of the addons, they have the possibility to convert the original SSI files (DUKEDCPP.SSI and VACA15.SSI) into GRP files using the following patches (created by supergoofy):
DukeDC Patch
Vacation Patch

This isn't necessary for most people, as newer EDuke32 builds (at least since around 2018-2020) allow playing even the original SSI files. These unofficial patches were created back in 2009 and while considered obsolete nowadays, they still have their uses. For example, the resulting GRP files are identical to the dukedc.grp and vacation.grp files provided by Megaton Edition and they in turn, can also be detected by EDuke32. In addition, they can also be directly loaded into JFDuke3D with the following parameters (after creating a shortcut):
duke3d.exe /gdukedc.grp
duke3d.exe /gvacation.grp
The expansion packs will work fine in JFDuke3D, as the CON files get automatically loaded from inside the GRP file, no extra work required!

Additionally, you can find both DC and Caribbean as extra episodes included in newer versions of Alien Armageddon, while Penthouse Paradise can be found included in the Addon Compilation.

For those who have asked about The Birth and why it hasn't been chosen/nominated yet, I assure you that's gonna get chosen later this year and it will be coupled with another official episode!
Besides that, the Map/Mod of the Month club didn't start with the original Duke3D being played, so it's not that big of a deal if it gets left for a bit later. There will be enough time to get through most of the popular and official Duke3D content.

Have fun!

[Quacken]

Well hey, I'm first off the mark I guess. I've very quickly knocked out the first two maps from Duke it Out in DC. In the interests of keeping everything spread out, I'm gonna limit my reviews to just two maps per post. I'll try to keep to a schedule, though I probably won't be able to. Like with the original three episodes, I'm playing on CGS with a pistol start enforced on each map, and if I die I can't load a save.

Hell to the Chief: Unlike the starting maps of L.A. Meltdown, Lunar Apocalypse and Shrapnel City, Hell to the Chief doesn't really leave a lasting impression of any kind. You'd think a level that's based off of the White House would be a cool map, but it's a really short 63 monster shoot-out that's over in about 6 minutes. It does have some decent qualities, though. The new textures on the walls aren't as detailed as the ones created by 3D Realms, but they do a good job of providing a nice, cozy feel to the interior rooms. I also enjoy the over-sized attic too. Hell to the Chief is the first in a long line of the hitscan conga line that DC tends to be, but for this first map they go light on the Enforcers. I only found the secret Devastator just this playthrough, but it trivialised the few Octabrains floating around and the Enforcers from far away. Hell to the Chief is mediocre and largely forgettable.

5/10.

Memorial Service: For a map where you visit three US monuments in close proximity, there sure is a hell of a lot of time spent not being at the monuments. This map's pretty boring. The depictions of the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument are endearing, but the Lincoln Memorial is guarded by a few Pig Cops you have way too much ammo for, and as soon as you blow a hole in a wall you never have to go here again. And there's straight up just nothing to do at the Washington Monument. You circle it once to max out your shells and that's about it. In terms of difficulty, the Enforcer spam tries to pile on the heat, which would be threatening had it not been for three Large Medkits all right next to each other to help you cool down. Then there's the button sequence too, which is awkward to do fast since the Pistol doesn't have perfect accuracy, and the Chaingun often triggers the button twice to keep its respective door closed. Memorial Service is even more unremarkable than Hell to the Chief, and upon my revisit to it I've grown to dislike it.

4/10.

Not off to a great start... but I'm hoping some of the later DC maps will be more eventful.

[gibfrag]

I think I'll go along with Quacken's approach for this month by focusing on 2 maps at a time for DC and then when I get through all 10 I'll start doing 4 maps at a time for Caribbean. For now, I'll just be talking about one map that YT has decided to age restrict my video of. This is played on Damn I'm Good:

Duke Nukem’s Penthouse Paradise is an addon I never played until today. I had heard of it many years ago, but never bothered to play it assuming it was low quality. Well, I was somewhat wrong to assume that. This map is quite well done and doesn’t feel too far off from a 3DR’s level in terms of quality. If the new assets were removed and this wasn’t "officially" released, it would’ve likely been a user map that would’ve been popular for Dukematch. That said, the new art is some lovely late 90s era lady boobage, buttocks and bushes that even with them being very pixelated looks quite nice. They don’t really fit the rest of the game art, and definitely stick out, but they’re at least hot. There’s a hidden room behind the screen that’s accessible from using a jetpack to reach the projector room. Inside is a message from Ty, the map author, and pretty much all the added art can be viewed from this room.

Overall, this was a nice surprise. Here I was all these years thinking this was just a crummy ad for Penthouse magazine. It doesn’t really feel like an ad at all, it just feels like any of the many user maps out there that add nudity, only this one is “official”, and really, it isn’t too bad of a map for its time.

[NNC]

What is utterly terrible about DC's gameplay is how inbalanced the monster placement is. Both the first two maps start with a reasonable fight with flying liztroops and pigcops, and then they both go silent to the level I was annoyed and waited something to happen. Both maps had almost nothing to shoot at the last third of the level. There are other problems too, like the horrid switch puzzle in Memorial you have to complete not once, but twice. The lack of ambient sounds, Washington references, pigcops in Men in Black style were all part of the tedium this game created. Too bad, because the visuals are pretty great, even in 2022.

[gibfrag]

Duke It Out in DC was the only expansion pack I had back in the late 90s, so I have some fond memories of this episode. I've also been to DC several times and so it is cool to be able to see the areas the designers were inspired by to design these levels.

I'll be playing this for the first time on DIG with pistol starts with Jimmy's soundtrack, and so far I have to disagree with both Quacken and The Watchtower, at least on this difficulty. It seems the level designers added even more enemies to this difficulty, and I found it more challenging than I remembered it being when I played it on CGS in the past. This is a pretty straightforward map with 3 fairly easy to find secrets.

Also, I didn't have to do the switch puzzle twice here in Memorial Service, plus you can sort of jump over and around it once you reach through the first door. I didn't notice this until now, but there is a passage that opens up that allows you to travel between where you flip the switch to access the red keycard and where you'd go to do the switch puzzle. This one gave me a few brain farts, as for a brief moment I kind of forgot how to exit the map.

[Quacken]

Back again with two more DC maps. I've still not taken any deaths thus far. Not that I was expecting to honestly since most Sunstorm expansions are pretty easy.

Nuked Files: Nuked Files is the serotonin that DC needed. The combat is still mostly involving the peanut gallery of Assault Troopers, Pig Cops and Enforcers (Robert Travis can't even throw in a few Assault Captains in?), and with the Chaingun it's still pretty easy throughout, but Nuked Files separates itself from Hell to the Chief and Memorial Service with more monsters than both those maps combined. This allows the map to respect its own time more and it makes for a more memorable experience. Sunstorm workhorse Robert Travis also tries to get more fluid with his combat. He incorporates Octabrains into a few of his fights, throws in an Assault Commander to guard the red key, and his usage of the frontline forces are a lot more varied and interesting. There's fights involving lots of cover and obstacles, one fight that sicks about three Enforcers and Octabrains at you that slowly trickle out from a dark corridor, and even breaking into the FBI building at the start is a task, that is if you don't cheese it with the fire hydrant. I'm quite a fan of Nuked Files. This is where DC begins for me.

7.5/10.

Smithsonian Terror: Smithsonian Terror is a very good map. I've heard this map is way too big and overwhelming, but if you have a rough idea of where to go then navigation is easier than you think. For easy access to the yellow key, you can jump on the map in front of the fine art gallery, into the vent and hang a right to make this map's pacing a lot easier to manage. The Humans in Space and Ancient Worlds exhibits are both great. I really love the adorable dioramas of L.A. and the Polaris Outpost, and the usage of Lunar Apocalypse skyboxes is probably more creative than how Movie Set handled things. The combat is finally no slouch either. "Night at the Museum -1" is sprawling with Pig Cops, carpeted with Enforcers and polluted with Assault Troopers, and the crowded rooms of Octabrains can get pretty hot. Definitely the champion fight is the Egyptian backroom. This fight is genuinely pretty well executed: The powerful attacks of the Enforcers, Pig Cops and Octabrains make navigating a maze of shelves packed tightly together tense and exciting. For a first timer or someone without a great grasp of directions, Smithsonian Museum is a logistical nightmare, but with a good memory and just a little bit of patience, Smithsonian Terror easily becomes the best map of DC so far.

8.5/10.

DC is picking up! Let's hope it stays that way...

[Aleks]

I've decided to play these 2 expansions on DIG similarly to how I've played original 3 episodes last month, so with no mid-level saves and finding all the secret places in every level. I will also try to write some about my first experiences with them - Duke DC was on Kill-A-Ton Collection CD I got from a friend around 1999, so I got my hands on it early on and played it along The Birth, which means there's tons of fond memories. Caribbean, on the other hand, I have only played for the first time like 10 years ago or so when I got it from Megaton I think. Finished it a few times since and always loved how genuinely cool it was. When it comes to DC, a slight disappointment is that it comes with no new music, so I'm just listening to E3 soundtrack and that's that.

Hell to the Chief

The first level of Duke It Out in DC doesn't fuck around and just throws us instantly to the White House, which makes for a pretty bold start of the episode. I've always found the first area here to be quite challenging with lots of hitscanners in the open and being restricted only to pistol and shotgun. The facade of the White House has always impressed me, when I played it as a kid, this made a great impression on me - after all, I didn't know much about the White House, just seen the occasional footage on TV which mostly showed the front facade anyway. Nevertheless, love the level all around, mostly for the architecture. It's also notable that you can enter the level from 2 different ways - through the window and into the chambers or through the press entrance which will then lead you upstairs to where the real business is. From my playthrough yesterday, it seemed going in through the press entrance was a better idea on DIG, as the chambers are crawling with up to 6 pigs in single room, which can be quite a killer considering they respawn. The map is generally filled to the brim mostly with hitscanners and while some might consider this annoying or unfair, I like the challenge and there's mostly enough cover/corners to maneuver the enemies around and take care of them more easily. The minus is that there's not many weapons available here, so I'm still struggling for explosives or other ways to deal with the dead bodies. Nevertheless, it's a great first level that makes quite a statement when it comes to the location we're in, which is the best possible way to kick off this episode.

Rating: 8.5/10

Memorial Service

This is a shorter and sometimes less impressive levels, despite taking us to famous monuments and locations. The problem is, as Quacken mentioned, that we only briefly see these while passing by. On DIG, the level is swarming with pig cops, while also having enough enforcers to make your life quite miserable. The first part can be easily cleared by diving in the pool and letting the assault troopers take a dive with you, so they won't bother you anymore after that. The Lincoln Memorial is pig cop hell, so my tactic here was clearing the first couple of enemies, entering the souvenir shop and getting the pipe bombs, then proceeding to blow up the crack without even taking a glimpse of the crowd that was eager to cheer me up from the other side of the platform. There were some trip mines and also pipe bombs/devastator down in the museum, but the sheer number of hitscanners in the main area was insane, so I just gathered them all by the yellow key door and blew them to pieces with as few pipebombs as possible. The shooting button puzzle was easier than I remembered, also I used DNSKILL420's tactic to jump over the ledge instead of opening the final door, which made it even easier (and also fell down the pool during the first try, so the jokes really on me). This is something I barely understand really, the sewer/bathrooms part takes up too large part of the level instead of the actual memorials, which in retrospect feels a bit awkward. Combat-wise, again the weapons were limited and more powerful ammo was pretty scarce (although there was sufficient shotgun and chaingun ammo to probably just keep on killing the respawning undead enemies every time around, however tedious that would become).

Score: 7/10

[quakis]

Aleks, on 05 May 2022 - 10:49 AM, said:

When it comes to DC, a slight disappointment is that it comes with no new music, so I'm just listening to E3 soundtrack and that's that.

As an alternative, you can try out the custom soundtrack for DC by James Paddock. I see DNSKILL420 already made a mention of it, so have some links for convenience: The bandcamp page here if you want a quick preview. There's a download on hrp.duke4.net with it all set up, both midi and ogg formats, grab that here.

[Quacken]

Another two days, another two maps of DC and no deaths taken. Let's see what's in store:

Capitol Punishment: Nothing like two long maps with lots of exploration opportunities, unique combat scenarios and secrets to find than to follow them up with a short, linear, flat set of boxes that somehow uses three keys. Capitol Punishment feels like one of the maps that was made when Sunstorm were getting into Build for the first time. It's profoundly under-detailed compared to the first four maps, and the combat is back to standards set by Memorial Service. Hitscanners in open environments! Plenty of them! Most of the challenge comes from avoiding the bullshit pop-up explosions anyway. Waiting in the previous room for explosions to stop in case you get blown up bogs down this map and is very annoying. What's also annoying is the amount of fire in this map. It's placed so sporatically and without any care for the player that I swear you'll need to take chip damage multiple times in the opener just to proceed. I don't like this map at all.

1/10.

Metro Mayhem: Metro Mayhem is the good version of Rabid Transit. It's still pretty short and easy, but now the ending doesn't give me whiplash like Rabid Transit did. Mr. Travis does a lot more with the concept of a train station than Levelord did. There's three cars instead of two, you have to explore two busted train cars, some stations are partially blocked off with chicken wire and there's no Battlelords that teleport in behind you. It's also generally paced better. You've got a pair of Boots to make jumping on the train tracks easier and you can take cuts through the track to get to where you want to go. The new textures, particularly the "Crossdressing Alien" one are also pretty amusing. This level would have ironically enough contained the first Battlelord, but coming out to meet him blocks off the way back to the metro station to my knowledge, so I had to skip it. Rabid Transit is a good palette cleanser and is a nice expanding upon of Levelord's original map.

7/10.

Halfway through now. So far DC is a mixed bag. Three fun maps and three maps that aren't good. I think this was what I was expecting.

[gibfrag]

Aleks, on 05 May 2022 - 10:49 AM, said:

I used DNSKILL420's tactic to jump over the ledge instead of opening the final door, which made it even easier (and also fell down the pool during the first try, so the jokes really on me).

I'm glad that worked out for you! Honestly, this was the first time out of the many times I've played this level that I noticed this was even possible, and I never noticed that a shortcut opens up between the control rooms so you don't have to go through the door puzzle again until now either. Then again, it's been over 7 years since I gave DC a playthrough, so I could just not be remembering it. Also, yeah, Jimmy's music pack really gives this episode a lot more depth. I highly recommend it.



Nuked Files is a fun map that I have fond memories of as a kid because I was, and still am, a big X-Files fan (Gillian Anderson was also my first celebrity crush). I love the subtle references to the show found in this map, and really enjoy the office with the rooms behind bookshelves where you can see the street outside through the windows. For some reason that area has been etched into my mind for decades. This map isn't too tough overall, about the same difficulty as the previous maps, but the enemy placement is quite well done and makes the map challenging due to well done strategic placement of the pig cops and enforcers. I also like that the metro is where you're taken to at the end, which I actually took on one trip to DC in real life to get from DC to Arlington to see the various memorials over there like the tomb of the unknown soldier. We'll be accessing the Metro Station itself in a later mission!



Smithsonian Terror is a really large map by the eras standards. While it isn't really like the real-world museum found in DC, one thing they did get right is how it feels to navigate such a museum without a tour guide! On Damn I'm Good with a pistol start the map is far more difficult than I ever remember it being in the past. There were several moments where I was low on health, no armor, and no ammo! I had to resort to using the mighty boot and leaky pipes from broken toilets in the bathrooms to survive, relying on re-killing some of the enemies again just to get some extra bullets or shells. I think this map has gotten plenty of criticism over how it is confusing to navigate, but it really isn't that bad. I've seen far worse when it comes to hard to navigate maps for DN3D. The main parts that get confusing is getting to the key doors, as you have to move around the map quite a bit to reach them and then backtrack, so that adds to the length and possibility of getting lost, but I feel it's not too difficult to get back on track.

[Aleks]

Nuked Files

This one ramped up the difficulty quite a bit due to hordes of pig cops on DIG. Luckily, it also gives a shrinker in one of the secret and then - later on in the map - a freezer (which I didn't get to use at all). There's also some slimers that can be used for strategic purposes, particularly to feed on the enforcers beyond the forcefield when approaching it from the blue-keycard area. I like the layout of the main building here and how interconnected it is, also coincidentally after reading DNSKILL420's comments I have to admit I share similar vibes regarding the small street area, that it just somehow got engraved in my mind. The texturing inside the building feels a bit boring with basically using the same texture all over the place. This renders the rooms hardly distinctive from each other and makes navigation quite a mess, especially when you're in a hurry not to have more resurrecting aliens around you. On the other hand, I like the use of various texture tiles as abstract paintings on the walls, something that is done later to a much bigger extent in Smithsonian Terror, but also what many prominent mappers used since. Also curiously, but playing in r8930, it was impossible to jump back from the small area with the plants between the two staircases, where one of the secrets is located. I had to use steroids to make the jump and barely go over the slope there. Never noticed this before.

Score: 7.5/10

Smithsonian Terror

I'm among the people who really dig this level - to be honest, I think this is the best level of the whole expansion pack. Just played it "blindly" on DIG after not touching it for a few years, also trying to complete it with all secrets and without any saves. Took me 45 minutes and about 220 killed enemies, so yeah it's pretty big. Anyway, my favourite thing about this level is the complex, highly interconnected layout where it's easy to get lost, but at the same time - it's kind of a pleasure to get lost, as it widens the immersion of the level. It's also worth noting the whole map is built on 3 separate floors, upper one being partly a balcony, so there's some height play involved as well. With ammo for the bigger guns that can easily dispose of the bodies still quite scarce, I had to approach this level quite carefully and making sure I completely erase just the enemies that I might be encountering again or that could trap me from behind. There's some slimers in the corridors that were helpful, although at one instance I had to lure one of them quite a long way to feed it some yummy enforcers and porkchops. Now despite the map being so large, there's plenty of optional/semi-optional areas, in fact you probably can pretty much omit most of the exhibitions. The first mandatory one is the aquarium, where the button puzzle might feel a bit tedious with no respawns between each tank, but I've never found them really that much of a chore and it's always been clear enough what you are supposed to do. The storage room where you have to follow the alien footsteps, on the other hand, is quite a creative puzzle - usually I just run around to trigger all the spawns, but now with limited ammo I just traced it making sure nothing new spawns. Always loved the design of the pharaoh sarcophaguses down there, too. The secrets did grant me some extra guns and I finally have an RPG! Overall, brilliant level.

Score: 9.5/10

[NNC]

Smithsonian looks like the fine tuned version of all old Robert Travis levels combined. It's clearly reminiscent to Betaone, Betatwo and to some extent, even Anslem, just a lot better than all of those. The gameplay is still boring, but at this point, the damage has already been done, so noone cares anymore.

[Quacken]

It's DC time again! Still no deaths.

Top Secret: In a wave of averageness, mostly bland combat encounters and wasted location potential, comes the one true gem that washes up on the shore: Top Secret. Compared to the 10 minute romps of all but one of the previous maps, Top Secret sticks out like a sore thumb: It's a tense thriller that is by far the longest and most involved map in the set. Right off the bat, Top Secret lets you know what a pistol starter is in for. Ammo is tight. Security drones around corners. Only two medikits and a Portable that you'll need for later if you elect not to use the drinking fountain. Without creative, efficient usage of your guns, or scouring the map for secrets, you will be starved for ammo constantly at the start, and likely picked off by an ill timed Sentry Drone explosion, a rush of Enforcer gunfire, or an Assault Commander's missile. Top Secret probably has the most ruthless start of DC or even the first three episodes. It demands you to think on your feet and play tactically. The rest of the map lets off the heat just a little, but it's still quite tricky. The crate maze is tricky to navigate and there's even more Sentry Drones waiting to gift you a fist full of shrapnel, the time travel section is fun to tread through, but it's also hitscanner hell, and the ending essentially mandates either a secret Shrinker I missed, or the Devastator. If you go with the latter, the three Battlelords will gobble up all of your explosives.

There are some things you can't ignore though. The red key feels very awkward to grab. I'm not sure if there's a safer spot to jump from, but I've always jumped from the ledge off to the right of the key. It always makes me think I'm sequence breaking doing that. The three Battlelords at the end are also quite rude. Not that I'm complaining, but it would have been better to spread them out as opposed to slapping three at a spot where you might not even have the ammo to kill them all. Additionally, while Robert Travis and Charlie Wiederhold try to spice things up with regular uses of Octabrains and Sentry Drones, ultimately most of the monsters are just hitscanners.

Despite its shortcomings, Top Secret is a contender for the best map of DC. It alternates between this or Smithsonian Terror for the map I enjoyed the most.

8.5/10.

Brown Water: In which none of the water in this map is actually brown. The only level that Robert Travis didn't have a hand in, Brown Water is a boring, grey, flat sewer system with very little to speak of. It feels extremely rushed. There is very little in lighting variation, height variation or... much of anything, really. Assault Commanders pop out of monster closets Doom style, Pig Cops are in these big silver boxes under the cloak of darkness, and Octabrains are only here to waste your time. Special mention goes to the bullshit staircase filled with trip mines. The map ending off at the Pentagon is a huge gut punch. It honestly would have made the map better if it just ended at the sewers, because the inclusion of the Pentagon raises so many questions. Why does the Pentagon have 5 monsters in it? Why wasn't the entire map built around the Pentagon? How does the fountain in the courtyard lead to an underground tunnel which itself leads to a submarine harbour in broad daylight? If you want my unprofessional opinion on all of these questions, here it is: It's because this map sucks.

1/10.

[gibfrag]

Aleks, on 07 May 2022 - 03:23 PM, said:

also coincidentally after reading DNSKILL420's comments I have to admit I share similar vibes regarding the small street area, that it just somehow got engraved in my mind.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way about that area of the map. I remember in the late 90s spending a lot of time in that room, trying not to die from all the octabrains.

Quacken is pretty spot on with what he's had to say about Metro Mayhem, and while he didn't care for Capitol Punishment, I felt that map was a bit better than a 1/10 myself.



Capitol Punishment is a fun map that I remember fondly from the past. I remember always feeling overwhelmed by the enemies in the house of representatives office. This time on DIG, it was a bit easier than I remember it being. I feel this map could've used a few more accessible areas in the street that you start the level near. Would've been nice to have been able to enter the apartments and the movie theater for some extra combat action with the capitol building off in the distance. It's pretty cool that they did it that way, where you can see it, then you see the sewer which clearly is meant to imply you enter through the sewage system to get inside the capitol. Pretty neat yet simple effect. It definitely could've been a little larger overall, but not a terrible level for what is there.



Metro Mayhem is a lot of fun, and I agree that it is pretty much a better interpretation of what we saw in Rabid Transit. The level starts off with tons of pigs and enforcers, and there are barely any assault troopers in this map. It is easy to get a bit lost in this map, mainly because of how many different metro stations there are and the ways to access them being a bit confusing, but not too confusing that it becomes frustrating. I didn't go through the red keycard door, because if you go past the booth, the door behind you shuts, preventing you from returning for the secret exit found in this level. I am not sure if you can trip the door and force it to stay open like you can do on The Abyss, but oh well. I just missed the battle with the battlelord sentry, and I'm sure I'll face one here in this episode soon enough anyhow. Overall, this map is tougher than Capitol Punishment, but not by too much. It's a fun map and I'd argue it's a highlight of this episode. I forgot how fun it was after all this time having gone by since I last played through it. With that said, nah... it doesn't feel much at all like the real Metro Station found in DC. It would've been neat had they made it a bit more realistic, perhaps adding in a secret metro station that lead out to Arlington so you could see the tomb of the unknown soldier or something.

[Aleks]

Capitol Punishment

The best thing about this map is how we can see the distinguished, partially destroyed Capitol building early on, then get to access it without too much SOS tricks or other kinds of hassle, yet feeling completely natural. The first open area wasn't too difficult, despite the abundance of hitscanners - there was plenty of spots to take cover, my strategy was just running all the way to the right on the main street and hiding beneath the staircase, then letting all the monsters come nearby and picking them one by one. This way, I could just get rid of their bodies with a single pipe-bomb. The inside of the Capitol building had plenty of sequencing to it (although there seemed to be a bug with one-time sound of a dying commander appearing also on the inner sectors, so like 4 different sectors in sequence would trigger it). Also the first time around I fell down a hole in the room with yellow card and apparently got softlocked there, which sucks. Nevertheless, the level didn't feel unfair on DIG at all and I kinda appreciate how it was more about proper tactics than running like a madman or making sure that each rocket counts. Ability to finally get a jetpack and some jetpack-exclusive secrets were a nice touch as well, I finally feel like I'm properly equipped to deal with the enemies in the coming levels on DIG. Overall, this isn't the best Duke DC has to offer, but it's cerainly a solid level IMO.

Score: 7.5/10

Metro Mayhem

Agree with you guys about this one, it's quite a refreshing experience with great combat all around that feels like Rabid Transit on steroids. I kinda like how confusing finding the different stations can be, as it is really rewarding, especially since I pretty much completely forgot the layout of this level. The explosive/shrinker ammo was not as scarce as before, so I could replenish my supplies and DIG playthrough felt a lot easier, even if some encounters were still tricky to say the least. I also didn't step past the red key doors (as I was playing saveless and was quite satisfied with my run, so didn't bother trying anything funny) in order to access the secret level. The only beef I have with this level is that the stations in general look a bit bland with same texturing all over (especially since besides these gray tiles, there's also the ones with blue stripe that are used in Rabid Transit that can easily be paletted to whatever other colour, which would be particularly relevant here for the number of stations involved). The arcade is pretty cool though, finally there's some more machines than in e.g. Hollywood Holocaust. Also don't think I've ever noticed it before, but Duke apparently gets pretty pissed off by not being able to grab any item with the claw in that arcade game

Score: 8/10

[NNC]

Top Secret gave Warp Factor a run for its money considering the sentry drone usage. Other than the Aztec part from Travis (a totally out of place area there), drones are literally everywhere. At least it's an organic map by Wieder, and even here he knew very well how to nail the 3DR style. He got the job for a reason.

[Quacken]

Time to wrap up DC. On the 15th I'll start on Caribbean, going one map per day, and then finally ending on Penthouse Paradise. DC finally killed me, the culprit being:

Dread October: Despite being less painful than Capitol Punishment and Brown Water, I still dislike Dread October. The beginning can sting quite a bit if you don't grab an obscure box of shells buried in the water. Without those shells, you don't have quite as much leeway on the opening standoff, where you must juggle incoming hitscan fire from many Pig Cops, two Enforcers and some very inopportunely placed Sentry Drones and Assault Commander. This is what managed to kill me. It's when you actually swim into the submarine is when I start to have problems. The submarine is way too cramped and it goes really heavily on bright, coloured lighting. Firing the Devastator or using Pipe Bombs always makes me nervous because the entire map is just right angle after right angle. Playing this map made me feel cramped and irritated, and I think that's a good way to describe what it feels like to play this map. It's playable, but I don't care for this map at all.

4.5/10.

Nuke Proof: Nuke Proof is all things considered a pretty good way to end off an episode. Robert Travis gets creative with his encounters again and actually goes relatively light on Pig Cops for once. There's the Octabrain staircase and the subsequent cloud of Octabrains that flood in at the Command Centre, the lift that drops you into a blacked out room with Enforcers, and the Assault Commanders that try to surprise you as you run down the ramp after grabbing the red key and using the red switch. Even the Cycloid Emperor is on much more treacherous ground with no supplies at all. Urban Jungle was really misused on Stadium, but in here it makes for a nice quiet spelunk through a top secret bunker that ramps up in tempo only occasionally to get your heart rate up. Blow up the Cycloid Emperor, save Slick Willie and you're done!

Doesn't affect the grade at all, but the ending is definitely a bit of a let down, with still images and the general sluggish pace of the slideshow. This is one of the things that tells me DC didn't have much of a budget.

7.5/10.

Closing thoughts: Duke it Out in DC is definitely a mixed bag. As the first commercial Duke 3D expansion, as well as the first Sunstorm Build expansion in general, Duke it Out in DC honestly doesn't really do much to justify its existence, aside from being a low budget cash in on a popular PC game and allowing Sunstorm to learn the ropes of Build, and be recruited to work on expansions for other games. While definitely a valiant, honest effort with lots of care put in from Robert Travis, Shawn Swift and Charlie Wiederhold, DC gets easily outshone by its younger brother Caribbean, as well as Episode 4. Even though its got its ups and downs, I'm ultimately glad that DC exists and sold well enough, even if it only meant that Sunstorm could work on better projects.

My final grade for Duke it Out in DC is a 5.5/10.

[gibfrag]

Brown Water is by far the blandest map of the set. It's mostly a sewer level with a little bit of the Pentagon at the end. I agree with Quacken.. why the hell didn't they just make a Pentagon level? They still could've worked in the exit being underwater to lead into the next mission, but as it stands now the Pentagon is a very insignificant part of this mission. I will say, there's been far worse sewer style levels than this one, but it just feels like they could've done a whole lot more with this. Oh well..

Dread October, a pun on Red October, is a pretty neat map, but why can't we enter both subs and why the hell are there no secrets? For one, the switch in the flipped truck that opens the garage where you can find the scuba gear could've easily been marked as a secret area, as well as where you find the skrinker, and the other nuke chambers near where you find the blue key could've been secrets as well, at the very least. It just feels odd that this late in the episode they pulled this no secret crap. As I said, there should've at least been something to do with the second sub, but it's only decoration. Another thing about that room with the scuba gear.. why didn't the make those explosive canisters blow a hole into the wall? It just feels like the perfect place for an effect like that. On DIG, there's a ton of enemies on the docks that I left behind until I was finished inside the submarine, so that I could use superior firepower to take them all out.

Next up is the final level and the secret map (I decided to save it for last, even if the exit is accessible from an earlier level), then I'll be off to start Caribbean.

[TheDragonLiner]

Since the topic of music has been brought up, I sure have some interrogations.

When I discovered DC, it was through a non-commented LP which had custom tracks. And I remember downloading it from a midi website which also had BDP The Gate's music. The soundtrack contains several musics from Tyrian 2000, X-Files for 3rd level and the Robocop theme for the last level. (and some I don't know).

I remember there used to be confusions because of that, people no longer knowing who to believe between this tracks and no-new-tracks.
To the point that there is an HRP version which had custom soundtrack, some of which being based off that very soundtrack (such as the Robocop theme or the first 3 levels).


My question is >> Where does this belief come from ? Why these tracks in particular ? What caused people to be confused and think the add-on came with these tracks ?

[Quacken]

Touching down on Caribbean! As said before, one map each day, so if all goes well, I should be able to finish up everything on the 24th.

Caribbean Catastrophe: Wow. Seems like Sunstorm learned their lessons about DC. Caribbean Catastrophe aims to make a statement and make it loud. From washing up onto the beach, to interacting with the beachgoers either relaxing on beach chairs or running in terror from the aliens, to jamming with the admittedly stock-sounding but still catchy tropical music, you can tell that Sunstorm really wanted to start Caribbean off with a bang. Caribbean Catastrophe is surprisingly quite complicated for a first map. You have to go out of your way to find most of the nine secrets in this map and they contain a decent amount of the weaponry and monsters. Without a keen eye for exploration you could be stuck with just the Super Soak 'em and the TPS (Triple Poison Shooter) for the entire map. That's not too ideal, since Robert Travis stepped up his game. There's about three or four Assault Commanders in this map, as well as plenty of Sea Monsters. I like these Sea Monsters a lot actually. They have an extremely powerful attack, but they die to one Soak 'em shot, so they test your reaction time, and well at that. I've wondered why the Sea Monster doesn't get repurposed into a less tropical variant for community mapsets. As per the usual Sunstorm standard, there's also lots of Pig Cops, but their multi-coloured Hawaiian shirts help them to stick out from one another. Caribbean Catastrophe is about equivalent to Hollywood Holocaust in terms of its pacing and memorability, and it's a great improvement over Hell to the Chief.

7.5/10.

[Aleks]

Top Secret

To be honest, I have remembered this level to be much better than what I've just played. There's some cool sections like the time travel (and the really nice design of the time machine) - although this owes mostly to being basically cut and patched from older Travis level, but conceptually works very well. Also the aliens kept in cryogenic chambers/formaldehyde are a nice touch. Other than that, this is basically just large halls filled with boxes and more sentry drones than ever would be necessary. This level wasn't difficult at all on DIG, just quite annoying with cheap drone traps or explosion in the toilet at the beginning taking quite a lot of HP. Also the final area beyond the yellow key door is kinda weird, like it doesn't know how to progress - this time around I didn't find a way to open the part of the lab with pig cops at all for some reason. The triple Battlelord fight was quite nice though and the final room in general, at least in the terms of combat. All in all, found the level to be disappointing, but it's still a solid one.

Score: 7/10

Brown Water

It's surely a weaker level, mostly due to a bit dull design, but for its depiction of sewers/sewage treatment plant, it sells the location quite well actually. The progression is pretty straightforward, the fights are not too challenging, but there's some funnier ones - especially once resurfacing from the slime turned into water and being surrounded by some hitscanners, then approached by 3 commanders coming out of the monster closets. The Pentagon ending is kinda missed opportunity though, there probably should have been one more level centered around this building alone before going to the nuclear submarines. Anyway, this time the level seemed more entertaining for me than expected.

Score: 7/10

[High Treason]

Life's a Beach?

I can't really be bothered to write much of anything beyond I hate it. I really, really hate it. Level design is sloppy, new textures are crap, especially the guns. The shotgun is super silly as a sound is missing which makes if 'feel' ineffective, as is the case with other guns. Every stupid elevator is set to go as slow as possible because the level designer was a dick, maybe to distract from how crappy the rest of each map was. New music is horrid too. Oh, and the shovelware installer thingy and launcher can seriously fuck off.
Maybe I'll come back and add a few notable timestamps.2:18:11 is a fine example of what a shithead the level designer was, though.

Duke DC, I shall probably be streaming in July, but I'll just say 'I like that one' for now.

[Quacken]

Back with Caribbean again, moving on to the second map. Death count: 1.

Market Melee: Market Melee is another map that aims to try and grab you from the beginning, with less success than Caribbean Catastrophe. The bus crashing into your jail cell is cool (though I wonder how that bus even got there in the first place), though the rest of the map's visuals don't really grab me. Everything's a mixture of brown and grey and it can have the tendency to blend together. I got pretty lost here until I found the switch that opens up the Cha Cha exhibit. I dig the funky remix of Grabbag in this map, but it doesn't loop properly unlike Irie Party, and as a raw MIDI I can usually only bear to hear it less than twice in a row on repeat. The combat's only just okay too. Despite not being made by Robert Travis, it feels like Charlie Wiederhold put even more Pig Cops here than Travis did in Caribbean Catastrophe. Mr. Wiederhold also doubles down on Sea Monsters, who are great at taking good chunks off of you, leaving you to get picked off by a lone Pig Cop running around. The secret exit being hid behind a poster in the opening room is also not a great design decision admittedly. I know where it is because I've played this map three times altogether now, but a secret exit hidden by an unmarked switch and a fake floor that's not obvious at all doesn't really sit right with me. Market Melee isn't completely mediocre, but I definitely like it less than Caribbean Catastrophe.

6/10.

[Aleks]

Wrapping up Duke It Out in DC here.


Dread October

I can see where a lot of criticism about this level is coming from, but personally this has always been one of my favourite levels in DC. Sure the submarine interior is cramped, but it doesn't actually obstruct the combat inside of it (didn't even have a problem now on DIG using mostly the heavy artillery) and IMO adds a lot to the claustrophobic atmosphere that this map relies on a lot. The submarine is quite labrenthine, there's flickering lights or darker parts, but it all works together to create an immersive feeling similar to that of movies such as The Hunt for Red October (duh) or, perhaps even more so, Das Boot. Also despite heavily convoluted and rich in SOS layout of the submarine, it's surprisingly easy to get a hand of it after going through it only once, which is better than a lot levels aiming for similar "cramped realism" of a submarine/spaceship fail to do (e.g. Duke Express, which felt a lot more obscure to navigate once inside the ship). The abundance of hitscanners inside the submarine is good for testing your reaction time (also there's this trap with 2 Octabrains and a Commander spawning behind you, which I managed to neutralize with a single shrinker shot), while the menagerie outside with pig cops cramped alongside the piers makes for some gather'em together & explode'em kinda gameplay - but I imagine this can be rather difficult on pistol start. Finally, one of my favourite things about this map is how actually "mission oriented" it is, even without direct objectives/instructions staying pretty clear on what we're supposed to do. Load the torpedoes, look through the periscope and blow the bunker entrance. There's even something particularly atmospheric about the final descent through ridiculously large number of flights of stairs.

Score: 9/10

Nuke Proof

The last and perhaps the most challenging level of the episode, had a blast playing it this time around. Although it might be your typical base level that makes a nice use of large spaces with lots of room to jump around and verticality, being mostly build on 2-3 different levels with bridges and ramps connecting different sections, the design looks nice and clean (well, perhaps a few sections could use different texturing). As for combat, the level starts on a high note and ends similarly. There's armies of hitscanners (mostly enforcers) or troopers attacking, along with a significant number of commanders and a particularly well-used octabrains that make the most of their strengths. The yellow key section was particularly challenging for me, as I accidentally blew up an RPG rocket right in my face fighting an octabrain after the trap, which left me with about 50 hitpoints. Placing octabrains in these tight rooms might feel a bit dickish, but it becomes more tricky to just blow them and it's more difficult to avoid their wave attacks. Also Cycloid felt more challenging than in Stadium, as the area is more confined, however the main problem for me seemed to be getting stuck on the invisible forcefield and sucking up on his rocket. Nevertheless, managed to finish it without dying and it was more smooth of an experience than I'd expect.

Score: 8/10

Overall thoughts: As I said at the beginning, I've played Duke It Out in DC around the same time as I've played The Birth for the first time, so it's deeply forged into my childhood memories. While I probably did see more shortcomings here and there this time around, it's still a classic for me and I absolutely love this expansion.

[Quacken]

Nearly forgot my daily Caribbean review, but I didn't, so here's the secret map. Death count: 1.

A Full House: A Full House is probably the best map so far. It's cute and cozy indoor spaces are charming but fun to navigate, and its low difficulty makes it a great map to unwind on. No short part thanks to the music, Solitary Man, a suave jazz cover that's a little reserved at first, but then gets let out of its shell at the climax of the song. It's probably my favourite song in Caribbean. No secrets is definitely very odd and definitely feels like a mistake. There are plenty of hidden buttons and secret nooks to find that gear you up with admittedly way too much weaponry than what you'll actually need to finish the map. Having the amount of ammo you get for the Coconut Launcher and the Conchanator kinda breaks this map in half, but in a bit of a good way. It goes without saying that this is definitely the easiest map so far, but with the amount of attention to detail Bill Buchalter and Robert Travis gave to the casino, the karaoke bar and the seafood restaurant I really couldn't care less. A Full House is creative, it flows well in its pacing, and it's overall a joy to blow your way up through.

8/10.

[gibfrag]

TheDragonLiner, on 13 May 2022 - 10:19 PM, said:

My question is >> Where does this belief come from ? Why these tracks in particular ? What caused people to be confused and think the add-on came with these tracks ?

My memory may be hazy as it's been a long while since I remembered this, I think there was a pirated version that was shared around a lot that many assumed was the real version, and it had music tracks that were not official and were ripped from the internet. I just remember one of the tracks being the actual X-Files theme, which fit the map Nuked Files given the X-Files references, and James Paddock also decided to take a nod to this theme for his song for this level as well.

Anyways,

Sorry for the delay, it has been a busy past few days, but at least Aleks and Quacken have made it through DC, so I can close out now before moving on to Caribbean (Quacken's already gotten there, nice)


Nuke Proof is a great finale to finish off this episode. I love the metal detector with the pig cops behind it, that is quite neat. I also found it to be fun to find each key and the traps set for the player for each key gets harder than the last. The boss fight can be challenging, but usually the boss will get stuck around one of the pillars and be easy to take care of. For anyone who may try this on DIG with a pistol start.. You'll definitely want to save the devastator and all the ammo found in this level for the boss, in fact, I suggest leaving it at the start and backtracking once the keys are all used to unlock the vault doors. Otherwise, you're very likely to run out of ammo and be stuck with only your mighty foot, which is pretty much game over. The ending is quite silly, but would've been better had it been at least somewhat animated. I mean, even Nuclear Winter did that with the intro to some extent.



Top Secret, the secret map, is in my opinion the toughest map of the entire episode. It is cruel with a pistol start, as you are quite surrounded in the beginning, but as Quacken said, it does get a bit easier as you progress, as long as you can avoid the sentry drones! I used them and the slimers to my advantage to help clean up the mess so when I backtracked for medkits I wouldn't get peppered with lead. The area with all the storage crates is honestly where I knew I needed to kill every last bastard in that room because I knew if I didn't, I would likely not have survived the yellow key door's sentry drone trap towards the end of the mission. I love the time travel section, and am pretty sure I played the original Aztec map it uses as a base for this area in the past, but can't remember for certain. The area with the green brick walls, long bridge, and battlelord door feel quite familiar to me, so it must've been quite a while ago. The battlelords are pretty easy to take care of if you can shrink them in time before they let off their mortars in full force. I was able to escape this map with over 100% health, which was quite nice even if this is the end for me for this addon!

Overall, Duke it out in DC is still a whole lot of fun despite its age. I'd still consider it my favorite of the official addons, and with James Paddock's OST you really get a lot of character added to these levels. They fit each map quite well. I wish they had made 1-4 Dukematch maps to go with this episode, much like how they did later on with Caribbean. That would've been nice to have 4 DC related locations not in the base episodes used for Dukematch maps, such as the DC Zoo, inside the Washington Monument, the Thomas Jefferson or James Monroe Monument, and maybe something in Arlington so you could battle it out near the tomb of the unknown solider and the Vietnam wall. It would've added a bit more to this expansion and likely made it a bit more memorable overall.

Here's the complete playlist of my playthrough of Duke it out in D.C.. I am going to take a break for a day or two and come back to talk about Caribbean, which will include the eight SP maps as well as the four Dukematch maps! I will again post only about 2 maps at a time.

[gibfrag]

I had the chance to do the first two Vacation Dukematch maps and get them posted, and will get to the other two later this week before finishing up Life's a Beach by the end of May.


Island Hopping is a fairly small map, so it is best for 1v1 play. There's few weapons, and no ammo or health. This makes it a great map for anyone short on time. I suggest playing with the max frag limit to 10, because anymore than that is just asking to get bored.


Hidden Grotto is my personal favorite of the four Vacation Dukematch maps, and is perfect for 2-4 players. We did 20 frags here between the two of us, but likely would've done 30 or 40 if we had 3-4 players. There's a lot more variety to this map than in Island Hopping. Plenty of weapons and vantage points to take advantage of here.

I'll be playing again Friday night, likely 1v1v1 for the final two levels of Duke Caribbean - Vacation Dukematch.

Also, a bit of off-topic trivia related to these two videos:

Spoiler

Filmed them the night the DNF 2001 proto leaked, and my brother (NukeShroom) and I had just taken an eighth each of magic mushrooms. Island Hopping, they hadn't kicked in yet, but by Hidden Grotto... they got real intense. Not sure if it is obvious in the video or not that we were both wasted out of our minds, but it was one hell of a time, and we were too screwed up by the time we got to the cruise ship level and decided to quit.. then, at the peak of my trip I go on Discord and everyone is going apeshit that the DNF 01 build leaked, and it was so hard for me to get a grip on what was going on and my heart rate went through the roof in excitement and eventually the trip was over and I could actually function enough to get DNF 01 working myself. What a crazy night that all turned out being lol.

[Quacken]

Caribbean time again! Back on track with the main maps. Death count: 1.

Mr. Splashy's: I kinda love this map honestly. Mr. Splashy's is adorable, rich with exploration and is definitely the best map of Sunstorm's entire Duke library so far. The map starts off with a bang as you blow a hole into the water park and shoot down the security, and then you find your way into Tadpole's Wild Ride. I really like the three water coasters you walk across. They are all varied in textures, lighting and unique ambient sound effects. While some of the progression is a little cryptic, it's never overwhelmingly confusing at any point, as just looking around for an Exit sign or using the automap should get you out of most of the roadblocks when trying to locate the keys. Mr. Splashy's is admittedly a little light on combat, too. Despite having over 150 monsters, the coasters are pretty sparsely populated with things to kill, and the other groups of Pig Cops and Octabrains are all in groups, leaving to there occasionally being some dead air when navigating the map. The exception to this is the fight at the Wave Pool, which is easy with the Conchanator but is still awesome anyway. Mr. Splashy's is extremely creative, cute, and one of Robert Travis' shining pieces of work. Its attention to detail in its storytelling and joyous atmosphere more than make up for Travis' still flimsy combat. The ending with the entrance to the water park you blew a hole in being boarded up and sealed with police tape is the bow on top of this impressive map.

9/10.

[Aleks]

Neat videos, DNSKILL420! I once tried Island Hopping in DM, but it wasn't much fun, also I kinda remembered there being some health items (atomic healths?), but seems not like it. Anyway, why are you playing DM with coop-styled weapon pickup system? It seems kinda counterintuitive and weird to be able to pick up every gun only once and also no respawn markers that play one of the key roles in tracing your enemy in DM. Is it an option in NetDuke?

[gibfrag]

Aleks, on 18 May 2022 - 06:21 AM, said:

Neat videos, DNSKILL420! I once tried Island Hopping in DM, but it wasn't much fun, also I kinda remembered there being some health items (atomic healths?), but seems not like it. Anyway, why are you playing DM with coop-styled weapon pickup system? It seems kinda counterintuitive and weird to be able to pick up every gun only once and also no respawn markers that play one of the key roles in tracing your enemy in DM. Is it an option in NetDuke?

NetDuke32 does have an option called "weapons stay" that we set to on, and it was honestly due to a misunderstanding of the option itself. We had assumed it would be like Doom, where without this toggled on, the weapon pick-ups would be removed from the map for good. I think we did have respawn markers on, but I don't think there were too many items in either map that respawned that way.

For the next two, we'll turn this weapon-stay feature off and see how it goes.