[jkas789]

After mulling over the 25th anniversary thread and this other thread by yours truly, I really do think the community would benefit positively from having something Duke Nukem related to look forward to.

If that thing is a new community episode, a new game or a remake in another engine or a ultimate 25th community edition of Duke it does not matter.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think the community is dying. The fact that there are still mappers active and that this forum and others exists is proof of that. But as a whole the community has become (and with good reason) more cynical and hopeless. The Duke's curse has been following the series so long it has actually become an eventuality for us, not an accident. Something will eventually go tits up, in the eyes of the community. Whether that is a new game from Gearbox (which lets be honest thanks to the current socio political climate and Gearbox's laser focus on Borderlands, seems less likely every day) a movie rumored to star John Cena, or a fan project it doesn't make a difference. In the last 10 years, Duke Nukem's best official appearance is a toss up between the 20th Anniversary World Tour and the Bulletstorm DLC. How fucking depressing is that?

Now IMO the best way to get the ball rolling would be for some of the active mappers to get together and work on a new episode/expansion. Something that takes the level design philosophy from the original game and expands on it without going overblown and full open world-esque like many user maps tend to do. Caleb has Death Wish to point at as the "maximum opus" of Blood expansions. Why can't Duke has his own?

Another option could be reviving the Hail to the King edition for the 25th anniversary as a community repack that necessitates either buying the Zoom edition or 20th Anniv. World tour. Maybe make an unofficial version 1.6, ship it with the "enhanced resolution pack" (after it has been finished, of course) that has been getting traction on the Duke HRP thread. I know many of us would kill for the ability to be able to have a definitive version of Duke Nukem.

Heck if people get hyped up enough for it, make a remake/new game on a different engine! Though I don't think this one is particularly wise as I see it being a difficult proposition to start a project as this from zero without the devs being able to get at least a donation or something. If it was possible I would certainly throw a couple of my hard earned bucks to them.

What I'm trying to get at is that I think we need something to get excited about. Something that is intrinsically a genuine Duke Nukem experience that we can point at and say: "Hail to the King, baby!."

Or at the very least that is my opinion. What is yours? Am I right? Am I wrong? Am I complete and utter taco idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about and should I go back to the corn fields in shame?

Discuss.

Also sorry if this post's grammar is spotty. I ran this through Google translate before posting however there may still be some questionable stuff.

[Danukem]

I'm going to do a release of Alien Armageddon to coincide with the 25th anniversary, we've been talking about this already in our private discord. That's not really a community thing though, it's a release that would have happened around that time anyway, and I'm just going to tweak the date a little bit and make the promotional materials more anniversaryish.

EDIT: just to be clear on the date

Quote

Danarama10/14/2020
I want to do a major AA release to coincide with the 25th anniversary of Duke Nukem 3D. If you google Duke Nukem 3D release date, it comes up with "Jan 29, 1996". However, that is the shareware version (also that date would make me have to rush). The actual release date of the full game was April 19th. That is a much more realistic goal.

[MC84]

I'd consider getting involved in a community project, but as far as I'm concerned there needs to be some sort of project leader that ensures the maps provide a coherent experience. For instance I liked that Duke Hard imposed certain limits on the mappers (ie available space, the outdoor scenery, the elevator start/end points) and although there was a large amount of variety, the experience still felt somewhat 'unified'. I can't speak for anyone else but as someone who works on their own build project, the appeal of working on a community project is that there are certain limits imposed on the mappers so that the experience doesn't diverge into a showcase for individual maps. Simply put (IMHO) the process shouldn't be democratic; mappers can create according to the set rules and limits but a project leader should have the liberty of modifying certain aspects of the maps so that they provide a coherent experience.

[Ninety-Six]

I still have yet to touch mapster and am hardly much of an artist (in fact the only semi-applicable skill I have is remastering MIDI tracks, of which I'm still feeling out the process of and don't have my usual programs installed on this machine anyway), so if such a project starts, the best I can lend is words of encouragement.


They will be the best damn words of encouragement I can give, though!

In seriousness I wish there was something tangible I could offer a project like this, outside of maybe play/bug testing (and I would most likely be limited to the classic renderer). But of course that's late-stage stuff, coming way after the truly difficult stuff that everyone else would have been doing.

[ck3D]

Thank you for the initiative, I will be watching what unfolds as the concept comes together. I appreciate everyone trying to get new projects off the ground and maybe you should even directly organize things as the project leader once you've gotten more feedback.

In my humble opinion, though, Duke 3D is still in good hands. Lots of people are currently working on stuff already, as you said, which I reckon will at least attempt reflecting the authors' current speeches on here pertaining to level and game design, and those yearnings for certain elements that they themselves miss. In a way, as long as the community remains active, it will always kind of fix and feed itself, and the lamb is constantly on the way. This healthy functioning does need a constant run of new project initiatives, though, hence why I think this one is welcome, just as much as the next ones will be. So yeah, why not?

Ninety-Six, on 19 October 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:

I still have yet to touch mapster and am hardly much of an artist

Everybody is an artist, I'm sure you would come up with sweet stuff. Learning how to map is easy nowadays with eDuke32 and access to so much documentation everywhere, you should give it a whirl sometime. With your understanding of the game, you making your first map for this would be great especially if you keep it simple, and I'm certain people would be down to help you when needed too.

[Mark]

It doesn't fit the scenario of being in the original Duke3d style but I would like to see the abandoned Duke Spookem CBP get restarted.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 20 October 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:

Everybody is an artist, I'm sure you would come up with sweet stuff. Learning how to map is easy nowadays with eDuke32 and access to so much documentation everywhere, you should give it a whirl sometime. With your understanding of the game, you making your first map for this would be great especially if you keep it simple, and I'm certain people would be down to help you when needed too.

Just to be clear: When I said "artist," I meant it in the practical sense. Sprites, textures, etc. I have some minor experience in sprite editing but nothing massive, and definitely not from scratch.


As for the level design part, while I do have interest in doing so eventually, I'm wrestling with a particular mindset of mine that I'm trying to get unstuck from. That being the very necessity of having so much as a left turn in the geometry. Obviously there is a need to have that to keep the player from getting bored, but pinning how to use that towards something more tangible is a bit tougher.


I had a breakthrough not long ago when I realized exploring a level is itself something a lot of players find rewarding, so thinking of the mere act of navigation being fun gameplay has sort of gotten me started on the right road. I still have a long way to go though, especially since my idea of fun has always been the battles themselves, followed closely by flow. The former I know can be done and done well; the recent Lost World is proof enough of that. So my bigger concern is then that second thing, namely being that despite me valuing it, I have yet to pin down what exactly "good flow" means. I've come across hundreds of levels that are examples of good and bad and it's hard for me to understand what the difference is despite how many I've played. Again,I know there is one; it's been a make-or-break element towards how much I like a map pretty much every time I play one. I just haven't figured out what I myself mean when I say a level has good or bad flow. It's always been a nebulous "know it when I see it" thing.

Perhaps I'm worrying too much, and probably am. Still, I've always been particularly weak on things I don't understand the point of yet.

[Aleks]

Good luck to this project, but I think there's still much going on and much to look forward to in the community. Just this year we've seen wonderful maps and mods being released (for example van Oostrum's maps and WG Realms), then there's Dan's AA as stated before, ck3D's Blast Radius which looks delicious, Mister Sinister's episode, which by the looks of it seems to be kept in quite simple style. I'm also planning to release the stuff I've been "working on" for the past... 16? years, either for Christmas or in January, which should also coincide with 25th anniversary. So it's quite much to look forward to I guess, unless someone's only interested in a certain and very specific type of content I guess.

And Ninety-Six, the easiest way to learn and understand Mapster is by making maps I'm sure you'd do great in this field, just don't let the personal questioning and doubts get you off of the idea before you even start!

[ck3D]

@Ninety-Six: That's interesting, I think the very reason why you're having a hard time deciphering what makes or breaks the flow in a level may actually (and ironically) be your lack of experience with the editor; you're describing your knack for in-game exploration of levels, that's exactly what 3D mode in Build/Mapster is except you even get to modify everything on the go, as long as you know the handful of right key presses, so in theory you could peep at the construction of those levels with bad flow in the editor, try and edit them certain ways and literally pick apart every single element that felt wrong during your playthrough as just as many personal lessons.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant about the left turn in geometry though. What is the problem?

You also could start a first map that's just a couple of sectors at a different height, arranging the dimensions of them as you wish without thinking about the texturing and looks yet, build what feels like a (simple at first) intuitive and satisfyingly functional, fun layout (could be just a couple of rooms too) and once you're done making what's just space, you can imagine a theme and disguise/texture the thing accordingly. Then maybe you'll catch the bug and feel like expanding on the original layout even more (if even needed). If you follow your own intuition for navigation (let it guide you, even) and then think aesthetics last, you should be more than good. Then later if made public, people would give you precious feedback too. Don't put too much pressure on yourself thinking your map would even have to be at a certain (imaginary) level and match (fictional) standards of technical advancement to be enjoyable by people, playable content is playable content. Hope to see you on the other side of the What Are You Working On thread one day!

[jkas789]

ck3D, on 20 October 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:

Thank you for the initiative, I will be watching what unfolds as the concept comes together. I appreciate everyone trying to get new projects off the ground and maybe you should even directly organize things as the project leader once you've gotten more feedback.

While I'm humbled somebody would think that of me, I would preferably consider someone else with more experience in Duke Nukem 3D and perhaps game design in general. While I have fucked around in Skyrim modding and I have published some mods they are in no way shape or form of the scope that a Duke 3D episode would require. Also if I am sincere just opening mapster32 intimidates the shit out of me. I have been trying to learn how to use it however it has been very slow going because someone needs to disarticulate (Yes that is the right word. It is a different procedure than a amputation. Also, more fun.) legs and berate sick idiots. 2020 sucks.

Quote

In my humble opinion, though, Duke 3D is still in good hands. Lots of people are currently working on stuff already, as you said, which I reckon will at least attempt reflecting the authors' current speeches on here pertaining to level and game design, and those yearnings for certain elements that they themselves miss. In a way, as long as the community remains active, it will always kind of fix and feed itself, and the lamb is constantly on the way. This healthy functioning does need a constant run of new project initiatives, though, hence why I think this one is welcome, just as much as the next ones will be. So yeah, why not?

I also think that the DN community in general is very healthy, however I believe that to promote a higher morale and engagement we should have more community projects, like speedmapping competitions, community episodes, themed mapping competitions. You get my point. While the community may organically evolve, I think injecting projects maintains that momentum. How cool would it have been if as a community we would have made a Halloween themed mapping contest for example. And we as a collective (with this I mean the Larger Duke4 community and other forums) have had this before, after all the Beach Community build Project and the Community build Projects are a thing. And I'm sure there are many more that I don't even know about.

As much as I like to rag on Doomworld for being a toxic sjw ridden place, when they get things right, they get them on point. The cacoawards and the themed mapping competitions really serve to boost creativity and engagement in the doom community.


And all the above was IF the community bands together to work on a episode. Frankly the the definitive Duke nukem 3D compilation community project would AFAIK involve members from voidpoint in its development, and I'm not sure with how busy they are with the upcoming Ion Fury expansion (I'm fucking hyped for it!) they would like to undertake what would be frankly a lñavor of love.

The same goes for a new game/remaster on a new engine. As I pointed above, thanks to the obvious precedent we have of past endeavors it would be difficult to have a full dev team working on a new game/remaster. doable, but difficult without at least donations. Now I know that in the skyrim community they get around that by making patrons were they say they create mods for games without being explicit about what games. Basically they are cheeky about it, however I believe there is something on the TOS of the Creation Kit that gives certain ownership of the mods to the modder. So I really don't know if the same is applicable to the DN community. A review of the TOS for the original mapster or the mapster that ships with DN3D world Tour (does it even ship with one?) would be needed to see if there is a clear clause regarding that. Perhaps a review of the current DN3D TOS would be in order as well.

[ck3D]

jkas789, on 20 October 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

I also think that the DN community in general is very healthy, however I believe that to promote a higher morale and engagement we should have more community projects, like speedmapping competitions, community episodes, themed mapping competitions. You get my point. While the community may organically evolve, I think injecting projects maintains that momentum. How cool would it have been if as a community we would have made a Halloween themed mapping contest for example. And we as a collective (with this I mean the Larger Duke4 community and other forums) have had this before, after all the Beach Community build Project and the Community build Projects are a thing. And I'm sure there are many more that I don't even know about.

Oh that's for sure - a thousand times this.

[Mark]

deleted...wrong thread

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 20 October 2020 - 07:01 AM, said:

I'm not exactly sure what you meant about the left turn in geometry though. What is the problem?

What I was trying to illustrate there is that I am a very practically-minded person, to a fault. The left turn was just a generic example, since in my mind, going down a straight corridor is functionally identical to going down a corridor that turns left halfway through. It's the same result with what appears to be a merely superficial twist.

Now first I'm not saying that there can't be a purpose to such a thing. Indeed, as I said clearly there is some value in being able to explore a space, which would naturally include turns.

And second, I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing even if it was a purely cosmetic thing. The problem is squarely on my end because my brain just kinda struggles to do anything that is deemed to not have a direct purpose. For instance, the walls in my house are pretty much entirely blank because I don't see value in putting any pictures up.


That's also why I said I had that breakthrough somewhat recently, when I became aware that navigation can be a challenge and rewarding experience of its own. Still, I have a ways to go before I can get all the way to the answers I'm looking for.



As a last analogy to the weird way my brain functions, let's say you have four rooms. Now these four rooms are arranged in a hub style, one central three terminals, and there can be any number of additional rooms between them. One has the blue key, one has the red key, and one has the exit. The red key room needs the blue key, and the exit requires the red key. so you go through the first area, get the blue key, head over to the blue door, grab the red key, and make your way to the exit.

Even if extra monsters or traps are filled in with the halls, or a convenient alternate pathway opens up halfway through to the next area to spare you too much backtracking... in my mind, I struggle to justify not just having the three rooms in a straight sequence and ditching the keys, since everything else is extraneous and you have to go to those three rooms in that specific order anyway. And even in more non-linear level concepts, my brain still just kind of ends up locking up when it comes to justifying anything beyond the immediate critical path.


I know I'm the one with the completely wrong impression, here. I've played levels with plenty of stuff that was non-critical or even had lengthy roads to the objectives that didn't need to be and still had a good time. It's just that I don't know what the right impression is; my normal way of thinking seems to be completely antithetical to level design, and yet paradoxically I'm able to break down levels that I have played and explain what worked and what didn't about them. It's probably because in general I have an easier time thinking about things top to bottom rather than bottom to top.

But when it comes time to actually create them (bottom to top), I just get stuck the moment anything comes up that requires something to exist seemingly for its own sake. Hell, the problem is so bad that I haven't even figured out what the point of texturing at all is, since a room that has all its textures or a room with none of them will once again more or less be functionally identical.


I keep saying this but I really want to make clear that I don't think less of levels with superficial qualities or that everyone else is doing it wrong if they want to follow a superficial theme (so long as it doesn't come at the expense of the gameplay, anyway). I have played many levels from the people here and would never dare suggest a thing since given that I like a lot of these, I understand I'm the one with the problem.

I just haven't been able to solve the problem yet, and that's the biggest roadblock to me ever designing a level for any game, not just Duke. My brain automatically breaks things down into their functions alone, and as a result if something does not have an immediate function it gets ignored. It's probably the reason I haven't been able to break down why navigation or even what I talked about earlier with flow. Their functions are probably less obvious and less immediate than in-the-moment appearance of enemy types or armaments.

[jkas789]

Mark, on 20 October 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Maybe I'm missing something. What advantages or features would you be looking for in a different game engine if the goal is to stay true to the original game in Build with low res graphics and 2d sprites?

If you are making a game/remaster in a new engine I would imagine the greatest advantage would be a easier engine to understand with a lower gate of entry into mapping/modding. I believe someone mentioned the unreal engine or the Unity engine in the 25th anniversary thread however I admit I am woefully ignorant when it comes to game design.

In regards to staying true to the original game, I believe it that as long as level design (To a point) and gameplay are maintained and extended it is possible to stay true to the spirit of the game even if the new game was completely 3D.

But again, I'm talking out of my ass here. I'm at the end of the day on the end user side of the equation, not a creative. I would greatly appreciate if people with more knowledge would chime either in favour or against this idea.

[Sanek]

I'd recommend to make "Metropolitan Mayhem 2.0." - make the episode (s?) in the original 3DR style that follows the principles/layout variatons of the original levels, perhaps use 1.3D tileset only instead of Atomic's.
Send every map to The Watchtower to make sure he likes it, change it at his will if needed. We're all working for one cause here.

[ck3D]

@Ninety-Six: Ah I think I get it, but I mean, this type of straightforward and practical approach is not necessarily wrong, if anything that only sounds like something that will dictate your style. (Outside of this project I guess) maps don't especially have to follow specific patterns, and actually as a mapper I think your example with the keys is as tired (OK, extraneous) of a format as you spontaneously seem to think too (which doesn't mean the experience isn't enjoyable per se, we can agree on that), thing is there is no set rule that you should be following this or that model. IIRC Robert Carter's first ever level you could explore in a fashion that was completely non-linear to the point where you could grab a blue key but didn't even need it to be able to make it straight to the Nukebutton, granted that's quite an extreme example but also one that makes you think 'why the fuck not?'.

Side note, the straight line talk is funny as one of the next levels I have in mind for Blast Radius I actually intend to be mostly a straight line.

I think your practical mindset would be best viewed as a strength that would actually fuel the style of your levels once you accept it, embrace it and use it. Like I've said before I'm a big believer of how most (if not ideally downright) everything in a level should be not just looks but also practical, that's also kind of why I was encouraging that bare approach earlier. Mapping actually kind of works in layers, you start super basic then one idea just calls the next, and then that one the next. It's a funny mix of planning yes, but also improvisation when you think about it. For instance I know the shape of my rooms is always completely improvised and it's actually my practical mind that draws it, according to where I think the nooks and crannies should be in order to best be useful in a gunfight. Or when you have one super basic corridor set up, it becomes apparent where it'd be fun to tweak a wall or place a column or crate or whatever obstacle for cover, and which walls should open/be doors, etc. As much as planning in general benefits projects, one can only have such an abstract idea of what they really want their map to look like in the end until they actually draw it.

[jkas789]

Sanek, on 20 October 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

Send every map to The Watchtower to make sure he likes it, change it at his will if needed. We're all working for one cause here.

You joke about it but if something ever comes of this I would seriously recommend The Watchtower as beta tester at the very least. I believe he would stick to the guidelines of a project like a fly sticks to honey and he would critique the shit out of every map he is given.

[ck3D]

Sanek, on 20 October 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

I'd recommend to make "Metropolitan Mayhem 2.0." - make the episode (s?) in the original 3DR style that follows the principles/layout variatons of the original levels, perhaps use 1.3D tileset only instead of Atomic's.
Send every map to The Watchtower to make sure he likes it, change it at his will if needed. We're all working for one cause here.

Duke Nukem 3D: The Watchtower Edition where the entire forum would be ghost mapping for him would be so fucking amazing. I can already imagine the constant feedback: 'the vertices connecting wall 345 to wall 346 are 2048 Build units apart from each other when they should be 4096 like in Sewer, for a grander scale. This toilet paper dispenser isn't the exact same size it once was in E1L2. This wall texture should have repeat values of 8,8 yet you set it at 12,12, what the fuck do you think you're doing?'.

In the end and after years of global intensive labor, an episode of eight iterations of Traffic Jam ensues.

[Sanek]

@ck3D I LMFAO while reading this.

Another suggestion:

Make TC with lots of Lameduke/Beta-like things in it, basically recreate what we saw in the 1995 beta video. It's a little bit more ambitious than just making a pack of maps, as it'll require a programmer and artist (like sebabdukeboss), but there's a 50/50 chance it could be worth it.

On one hand, if it'll be so good that it could be mistaken for the actual betas, become popular in a process, it'll make lots of people interested in it and perhaps it'll make Randy himself to cash-in on this "betas business".


On another hand, Gearbox can shut this TC down if they don't like the fact it existed - like what 3DRealms did when some guy released a Lameduke-inspired mod.
Or if the mircale happens and Gearbox actually release the betas, it'll make our TC obsolete the second it happens. But it also will serve its cause.


I think that making classic maps with weapons from betas will be good enough (once again, if Watchtower approves it).

[Ninety-Six]

I never considered harnessing the powers of improv. Honestly that probably makes a lot more sense, since if nothing else improv gives you a base you can further tweak and refine. It just goes to show how my "straight line" type thinking was anticipating the need to meticulously plan out every last detail before ever opening an editor. Now that I'm saying it out loud I kind of realize how ridiculous it sounds. I'm too used to planning out narratives and stuff, I suppose (though even that can be done with improv).

Still, I think I would probably be better off starting with a much simpler editor, maybe something for like Wolfenstein 3D. I already used one of the editors to remove the Aardwolf Maze and fix E4's secret level. Wolf's ultra-simple tile-based map format would be a good starting point, I think. Because then I spend more time experimenting with the bare-bones basics of level design, and less time wondering how to do the thing I want to experiment with. That'll be valuable in time, absolutely, to see what can and can't be done; what tricks could be pulled to fake doing what can't be done. But when I still need to learn to accept these "left turns", being able to just do the basics quickly will be more valuable. Then I can move on to more complicated engines.

Nonetheless, the improv thing was probably more of a profound tip than you might have been expecting it to have been, so thanks. Truthfully a quaint little dream of mine is to make at least one decent map per every major 90s/mid 2000s FPS, which would include Duke.


But that's still far off from now and we've definitely gone off the rails of this thread.



To bring it back on-topic, as said there are probably a few too many major ongoing projects right now to start a new dedicated 25th anniversary celebration. But those same projects could themselves be considered the ultimate celebration of this game we all love. Alien Armageddon in particular, while hardly an extension of the vanilla experience, is in my mind the Duke-iest thing to come out since Manhattan Project. It feels like the natural extension of what we saw at the end of Duke 3D, with the right sort of indirect humor that feels like the Birth or again Manhattan Project. Even as someone who thinks DNF was alright, AA has the kind of tone that DNF should have had.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 20 October 2020 - 08:24 AM, said:

In the end and after years of global intensive labor, an episode of eight iterations of Traffic Jam ensues.

This would make a great April Fool's episode, not gonna lie.

[Aleks]

ck3D, on 20 October 2020 - 08:24 AM, said:

Duke Nukem 3D: The Watchtower Edition where the entire forum would be ghost mapping for him would be so fucking amazing. I can already imagine the constant feedback: 'the vertices connecting wall 345 to wall 346 are 2048 Build units apart from each other when they should be 4096 like in Sewer, for a grander scale. This toilet paper dispenser isn't the exact same size it once was in E1L2. This wall texture should have repeat values of 8,8 yet you set it at 12,12, what the fuck do you think you're doing?'.

In the end and after years of global intensive labor, an episode of eight iterations of Traffic Jam ensues.

I think "The Watchtower Pleaser" would be a good name for this episode...

[jkas789]

Getting back on topic here is my pitch for a Duke Nukem community episode:

DUKE NUKEM 3D: DUKE'S BIZARRE ARIZONA ROAD TRIP

Basically a road trip map that revolves around famous tourist spots of arizona. Out of the top of my head i could suggest:



1.-Starting the first map at Geronimo's castle, a short introductory map that starts inside the teppe bar and the objective is to get out to Duke over the top Harley Davidson. Bonus points if you make a sprite replacement of the Alien Troopers as indians.
2.-Ok corral. Just a nice old west town were the objective is to get to a teleporter on a crashed ovni on the other side of town (or somewhere else really). It doesn't need to be that but there must be a connection. Pig cops are are replaced by wild west sheriff pigs. you could add to the level design a cemetery that makes an homage to "The Good, the Bad and The Ugly. Seriously, there is a lot of potential here.
3.- Moctezuma's castle. You get the drill. enforcers first appear here guarding the exit retextured as space lizard people. Gotta keep those references.
4.-Sedona. a short stop at the town that ends in the mountains fighting a retextured assault commander as a thunder bird. Exit through a trail too..
5.-Superstition mountain! there is a lot of set pieces you could work here. Duke comes across a murder scene, he follows the trail to the Lost Dutchman's Gold Mine, were he discovers the legends of the hollow earth are true! Also space lizards (enforcers) because of course there are space lizards there.
6.- Duke finds an exit from the center of the earth to the lost grand canyon underworld! essentially a sewer level that combines the Egyptian tiles of World tour with common cave/mountain tiles. Why egyptian? because according to legend, there is a lost tunnel in the grand canyon that has Egyptian tombs inside them. Bollocks probably, but useful to make a level around off. Gotta tie the ancient astronauts around here as well.
7.- And finally the missile museum in sahuarita, were duke basically launches a missile to the alien mothership. That is it.

As a secret level you could add route 666. i have no idea how that would play as but you could try a train level ala Blood except Duke is jumping between trucks after his motorcycle was totalled by the alien scum.

So that's my pitch. What do you guys think?

Edit: I should really be checking the residents thesis but frankly this is way more interesting

[Ninety-Six]

jkas789, on 20 October 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

So that's my pitch. What do you guys think?

As an end user and not a creative like yourself (at least currently) as you put it, I can only weigh in so much.

Nonetheless, Duke nuking aliens in X Location are right about where he belongs. So focusing entirely on Arizona is right up his alley, and the built-in assets do support such a thing. The concept kind of makes me think of Lost Highway meets Duke it Out in DC meets The Abyss.

Alas I am also nowhere near Arizona, so I can't comment on the viability of the locations suggested as levels, nor can I suggest any of my own.

Another idea may be to take a more Alien World Order approach and take Duke on a proper globe-trotting adventure; one that makes better use of the locations. The stock texture set is very robust as evidenced by maps like the Roch series, so it might be conceivable but at the cost of feeling vanilla. That said, I do recall the first two episodes of The Gate did an alright job of creating global locations with a mostly stock texture set despite not being overly detailed, so perhaps it might not need to cost a vanilla feeling.

[jkas789]

I focused on arizona because of the myriad of UFO activity and strage supernatural stuff that can be found on the internet and travel books about the state. Most of the places I mentioned are recognizable and easily found on the internet, so I thought it would be easy for mappers to get inspiration.

Bonus Secret level pitch, Duke has to find his way out of a ranch before the chupacabra get him.

[Ninety-Six]

jkas789, on 20 October 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

I focused on arizona because of the myriad of UFO activity and strage supernatural stuff that can be found on the internet and travel books about the state.

That's a good point, actually.

[pavigna]

jkas789, on 19 October 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

After mulling over the 25th anniversary thread and this other thread by yours truly, I really do think the community would benefit positively from having something Duke Nukem related to look forward to.

If that thing is a new community episode, a new game or a remake in another engine or a ultimate 25th community edition of Duke it does not matter.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think the community is dying. The fact that there are still mappers active and that this forum and others exists is proof of that. But as a whole the community has become (and with good reason) more cynical and hopeless. The Duke's curse has been following the series so long it has actually become an eventuality for us, not an accident. Something will eventually go tits up, in the eyes of the community. Whether that is a new game from Gearbox (which lets be honest thanks to the current socio political climate and Gearbox's laser focus on Borderlands, seems less likely every day) a movie rumored to star John Cena, or a fan project it doesn't make a difference. In the last 10 years, Duke Nukem's best official appearance is a toss up between the 20th Anniversary World Tour and the Bulletstorm DLC. How fucking depressing is that?

Now IMO the best way to get the ball rolling would be for some of the active mappers to get together and work on a new episode/expansion. Something that takes the level design philosophy from the original game and expands on it without going overblown and full open world-esque like many user maps tend to do. Caleb has Death Wish to point at as the "maximum opus" of Blood expansions. Why can't Duke has his own?

Another option could be reviving the Hail to the King edition for the 25th anniversary as a community repack that necessitates either buying the Zoom edition or 20th Anniv. World tour. Maybe make an unofficial version 1.6, ship it with the "enhanced resolution pack" (after it has been finished, of course) that has been getting traction on the Duke HRP thread. I know many of us would kill for the ability to be able to have a definitive version of Duke Nukem.

Heck if people get hyped up enough for it, make a remake/new game on a different engine! Though I don't think this one is particularly wise as I see it being a difficult proposition to start a project as this from zero without the devs being able to get at least a donation or something. If it was possible I would certainly throw a couple of my hard earned bucks to them.

What I'm trying to get at is that I think we need something to get excited about. Something that is intrinsically a genuine Duke Nukem experience that we can point at and say: "Hail to the King, baby!."

Or at the very least that is my opinion. What is yours? Am I right? Am I wrong? Am I complete and utter taco idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about and should I go back to the corn fields in shame?

Discuss.

Also sorry if this post's grammar is spotty. I ran this through Google translate before posting however there may still be some questionable stuff.

Well, i'm now part of the mapping community too. I'm an art school student, and i can definitely help out with artwork, textures, models or cutscenes. I can't help on maps because i'm working on my own project, and there's no way i can finish it in time because of my staff being comprised of only me. If you need any textures or artsy stuff of sorts feel free to ask. I'm not a professional, but i'm on my way to become one. Also worth noting that i'm the moderator for the dukenukem community on Reddit. we post memes and maps and lost of question threads there, but i guess i could ask over there too?

[jkas789]

Oh that would be really nice actually. it would be good I think if both communities could crossover and pollinate. Share ideas, perhaps suggest a better project?

In regards to a date, I would suggest perhaps finishing the episodes before the end of July 2021? As I said before, my experience in Build modding is nonexistent, so I really don't know what is a reasonable deadline for a project of this scale.

On another note it would be cool if we could make maybe themed seasonal speedmapping/regular mapping contests? Obviously this year would be a bust but I think it would fun if we made a halloween themed mapping contest, a christmas one, maybe put in Valentines day? Maybe makes some rules that limit the maps created to shorter ones with some limitations to take of the pressure from mappers? Perhaps Valentine's day DM maps could be a idea.

[pavigna]

jkas789, on 20 October 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

Oh that would be really nice actually. it would be good I think if both communities could crossover and pollinate. Share ideas, perhaps suggest a better project?

In regards to a date, I would suggest perhaps finishing the episodes before the end of July 2021? As I said before, my experience in Build modding is nonexistent, so I really don't know what is a reasonable deadline for a project of this scale.

On another note it would be cool if we could make maybe themed seasonal speedmapping/regular mapping contests? Obviously this year would be a bust but I think it would fun if we made a halloween themed mapping contest, a christmas one, maybe put in Valentines day? Maybe makes some rules that limit the maps created to shorter ones with some limitations to take of the pressure from mappers? Perhaps Valentine's day DM maps could be a idea.

Love the idea! I know how build works really well, and i think that we need to get the community to a doom2 community level, where they have streamers playing the game, fans making maps for fun or for contests. Honestly tho it's tough because duke is now forgotten, while people look for old doom games because of 2016 and Eternal, which are great games btw.

Back in the day i played a shitton of doom2 and duke, and also doom2 was done in less than a year, so maybe this project, using the stock textures from the basegame and the expansions would probably be playable like a year or so from now if you manage to get a team together. at least 2 to 3 mappers, 2 designers for textures and sprites, a coder for new stuff, and fans to betatest.

[jkas789]

Crossposted to r/dukenukem in the hopes of starting a broader community conversation. Also it could be exciting if we got to the level of the Doom community and had our own cacoawards. Except we could call them something else. Maybe babe awards? Model the trophy after the one seen in Duke Nukem Forever?