[jkas789]

As much as I like to shit on Bethesda, I sometimes wish that more companies were as chill as they are in regards to their IPs and modding. There is a sourceport for morrowind, TC games for both Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. And Skywind and the Oblivion remake in the Skyrim engine are a thing.

Imagine a Duke Nukem 3D remake in say, the quake engine?

Anyways it's fun to theorize about ultimate collections and editions and what not. I wonder if now that Voidpoint has proven itself as a studio with Ion Fury, would they be able to approach Gearbox with the Hail to the King Collection as a business proposition? Would they even accept given Voidpoint's ties with 3DRealms?

Not that I think it will happen, but now that we all are theorizing I ask of thee this question. Would thee say nay or yay to the unholy alliance betwixt Voidpoint and Gearbox, if it was for the sake of our Lord and Savior, Duke Nukem?

[Jimmy]

I wasn't directly involved in the business side of things but I can say, because I know TX posted about it publicly, that Gearbox ended the business relationship in regards to HTTK. It's kind of shitty imo because TX was basically a consultant on World Tour. For example, the original Firefly enemy was a Sunstorm-tier shitty sprite paintover until he gave them sprites from a beta. (Further slap in the face that betas are dead in the water because of them.) None of this is to say there couldn't be a future relationship, but it would be fair to speculate that Gearbox just isn't interested. They made their obligatory profits off of Duke when they acquired the IP and I think they are done with it. HTTK was more finished than most games that get released today when it was officially cancelled. Gearbox knew exactly what the product was and could be. It would have competed with World Tour and I think that's the problem.

As for fan games, this is one thing I will give credit to Gearbox. They say that they will not stop any fan projects that are non-commercial and contain original content. Granted something like Serious Duke doesn't contain all original content, but they don't seem to care about that project. I think 3DR was very protective over their IP because they didn't want competition. Gearbox flat out doesn't care because no fan could (or even would) make the kind of game they want to sell.

[jkas789]

Jimmy, on 11 October 2020 - 05:13 PM, said:

I wasn't directly involved in the business side of things but I can say, because I know TX posted about it publicly, that Gearbox ended the business relationship in regards to HTTK. It's kind of shitty imo because TX was basically a consultant on World Tour. For example, the original Firefly enemy was a Sunstorm-tier shitty sprite paintover until he gave them sprites from a beta. (Further slap in the face that betas are dead in the water because of them.) None of this is to say there couldn't be a future relationship, but it would be fair to speculate that Gearbox just isn't interested. They made their obligatory profits off of Duke when they acquired the IP and I think they are done with it. HTTK was more finished than most games that get released today when it was officially cancelled. Gearbox knew exactly what the product was and could be. It would have competed with World Tour and I think that's the problem.

As for fan games, this is one thing I will give credit to Gearbox. They say that they will not stop any fan projects that are non-commercial and contain original content. Granted something like Serious Duke doesn't contain all original content, but they don't seem to care about that project. I think 3DR was very protective over their IP because they didn't want competition. Gearbox flat out doesn't care because no fan could (or even would) make the kind of game they want to sell.

The more I learn about this the more I'm saddened it never panned out. Gearbox really screwed Duke over huh?

[Jimmy]

You don't blame the executioner for killing the criminal. 3DR screwed the pooch royally for 20 years.

[PsychoGoatee]

What we really need is to get John Romero to do an episode. He could call it something like "The Nuclear Mega Ritual", and he could sell t-shirts but not officially sell anything Duke related.

Also, to make it fair, Allen Blum and Levelord can do some Doom levels. Though Levelord's Quake levels were cool.

On what we'll really get, Randy and Gearbox are maniacs asleep at the wheel. But I am hopeful we'll get some new Duke stuff one day. Ideally they just license it out to somebody cool, realizing it's a way to make money with a license they own.

[NNC]

Jimmy, on 11 October 2020 - 02:30 PM, said:

I don't even own a phone anymore.

The heck?

[NNC]

PsychoGoatee, on 11 October 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

What we really need is to get John Romero to do an episode. He could call it something like "The Nuclear Mega Ritual", and he could sell t-shirts but not officially sell anything Duke related.

Also, to make it fair, Allen Blum and Levelord can do some Doom levels. Though Levelord's Quake levels were cool.

On what we'll really get, Randy and Gearbox are maniacs asleep at the wheel. But I am hopeful we'll get some new Duke stuff one day. Ideally they just license it out to somebody cool, realizing it's a way to make money with a license they own.

It's kinda interesting how none of these guys even considered mapping for a similar game. Heck, Blum didn't even map for Shadow Warrior. Romero said he is considering a project for Hexxen, but it didn't happen.

[Tea Monster]

jkas789, on 11 October 2020 - 06:02 PM, said:

The more I learn about this the more I'm saddened it never panned out. Gearbox really screwed Duke over huh?

Everybody screwed Duke over. It's called 'The Curse of Duke' for a reason. From fans with fake C&D orders, abandoned and mis-managed projects, cliques, dismal cash-in mobile and console titles, lazy production on WT and no further interest in the IP at Gearbox. All of it played a part in bringing Duke to where he is today.

[OpenMaw]

Tea Monster, on 12 October 2020 - 04:08 AM, said:

Everybody screwed Duke over. It's called 'The Curse of Duke' for a reason. From fans with fake C&D orders, abandoned and mis-managed projects, cliques, dismal cash-in mobile and console titles, lazy production on WT and no further interest in the IP at Gearbox. All of it played a part in bringing Duke to where he is today.

The biggest failing is that Gearbox did not want to take the reigns and the responsibility. They bought Duke because of DNF, because there was so much fervor and hype surrounding the project that they were guaranteed to make money even if it were absolutely terrible. People were going to buy it, and they did. The unfortunate thing for Gearbox is people got wise to just how terrible the game was. So the obvious thing to do in the wake of DNF was damage control and to make sure whatever goes out the door next is a winner, right? Then we get World Tour which was rushed, and a couple silly cameos that didn't make sense.

[gemeaux333]

PsychoGoatee, on 11 October 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

On what we'll really get, Randy and Gearbox are maniacs asleep at the wheel. But I am hopeful we'll get some new Duke stuff one day. Ideally they just license it out to somebody cool, realizing it's a way to make money with a license they own.

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 07:02 AM, said:

The biggest failing is that Gearbox did not want to take the reigns and the responsibility. They bought Duke because of DNF, because there was so much fervor and hype surrounding the project that they were guaranteed to make money even if it were absolutely terrible. People were going to buy it, and they did. The unfortunate thing for Gearbox is people got wise to just how terrible the game was. So the obvious thing to do in the wake of DNF was damage control and to make sure whatever goes out the door next is a winner, right? Then we get World Tour which was rushed, and a couple silly cameos that didn't make sense.

Actually OpenMaw it isn't, but this is not a problem so simple to handle :
https://www.ign.com/...duke-nukem-game
And Randy Pitchford isn't going to anounce anything (either Duke Nukem or Brothers in Arms related) until there is something solid that would be ready to be talked about (something that wouldn't be a prototype), and it sounds about right after what happened with Duke Nukem Forever and Alien Colonial Marines (among the most overhyped games with Daikatana) !

[NNC]

gemeaux333, on 12 October 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:

Actually OpenMaw it isn't, but this is not a simple problem :
https://www.ign.com/...duke-nukem-game
And Randy Pitchford isn't going to anounce anything (either Duke Nukem or Brothers in Arms related) until there is something solid that would be ready to be talked about (something that wouldn't be a prototype), and it sounds about right after what happened with Duke Nukem Forever and Alien Colonial Marines (among the most overhyped games with Daikatana) !

This is the umpteenth occasion you said this bullshit, do you have any proofs, or did Randy tell this to ya?

[gemeaux333]

The Watchtower, on 12 October 2020 - 08:19 AM, said:

This is the umpteenth occasion you said this bullshit, do you have any proofs, or did Randy tell this to ya?

I think this sounds rather self explainatory :
https://twitter.com/...886758979633152
In other words : when you go on a long trip you know when you leave your home but hardly when you reach your final destination, except that here you have the "hush hush top secret" factor too that elude most of us...

[OpenMaw]

First and second hand experience tells me otherwise. But you go on stroking that shaft. Just make sure you include a magic trick at the end.

[Phredreeke]

Randy doesn't have some sort of Duke master plan, Gearbox doesn't have the money to make an AAA Duke game themselves, and no publisher is going to finance a new Duke game.

[necroslut]

Phredreeke, on 12 October 2020 - 11:03 AM, said:

Randy doesn't have some sort of Duke master plan, Gearbox doesn't have the money to make an AAA Duke game themselves, and no publisher is going to finance a new Duke game.

I'm sure they could afford to put out some free-to-play mobile game or cheap downloadable spin-off though, and I'm confident they will do that eventually if nothing else.

[OpenMaw]

Why not the middle ground?

Retro FPS are all the rage right now. People are making em all the time, there are lots of hungry, talented designers out there. Hire some of them, make a game that is neither the lowest tier mobile thing, or high end triple AAA. That was never Gearbox's realm anyway. The Borderlands games are certainly on the higher end of production, but they are not the huge block bluster franchise machine either. Something modest, but well made, would do Duke just fine.

[Jimmy]

Bubble Gum Chewer, on 12 October 2020 - 01:23 AM, said:

I like some unholy things. But alliance with Randall Pitchford? Meh says nay, because Randallbox will just screw them over. I don't know anyone at Voidpoint and I prefer it that way, since there needs to be some "distance" between developer and customer, but Randy and his box has history of screwing people over. Hell, screw overs and lawsuits is all it is to Duke Nukem's name these days. Dukerino is deadrino so Hail to the Queen, baby.

Trust me, what transpired over HTTK was basically like the WWF Montreal Screwjob. It's already happened.

The Watchtower, on 12 October 2020 - 02:12 AM, said:

The heck?

I broke the one I had right before all this Corona nonsense and I just haven't really needed one since, and because money is tight since losing my job I've just never gotten another one. It's been so long now I kind of prefer not having one. The only thing that sucks is that to put a landline phone into my house is going to be outrageous, like $75 a month. Now that is "What the heck?" worthy.

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 10:18 AM, said:

First and second hand experience tells me otherwise. But you go on stroking that shaft. Just make sure you include a magic trick at the end.

POOF!

necroslut, on 12 October 2020 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm sure they could afford to put out some free-to-play mobile game or cheap downloadable spin-off though, and I'm confident they will do that eventually if nothing else.

I'm surprised they haven't Serious Sam-ulized the series yet.

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 11:19 AM, said:

Why not the middle ground?

Retro FPS are all the rage right now. People are making em all the time, there are lots of hungry, talented designers out there. Hire some of them, make a game that is neither the lowest tier mobile thing, or high end triple AAA. That was never Gearbox's realm anyway. The Borderlands games are certainly on the higher end of production, but they are not the huge block bluster franchise machine either. Something modest, but well made, would do Duke just fine.

There are all these games using old engines now, it's clear the engine that Duke should be on: Unreal 1 or 2

[ck3D]

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 10:18 AM, said:

First and second hand experience tells me otherwise. But you go on stroking that shaft. Just make sure you include a magic trick at the end.

The real magic trick at the end would be if it were a good game that came out.

[Phredreeke]

Jimmy, on 12 October 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

There are all these games using old engines now, it's clear the engine that Duke should be on: Unreal 1 or 2

Unlike the Doom and Quake engines Unreal wasn't open sourced, so if you go with UE you'll have to go with UE4 as previous versions are no longer supported (I recall this being a problem with the A Hat in Time devs as it kept them from doing a Switch port for a long time)

[necroslut]

Jimmy, on 12 October 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

There are all these games using old engines now, it's clear the engine that Duke should be on: Unreal 1 or 2

I've felt for a long time that the 99-01 era FPS style is underused -- simple geometry, semi-high-res textures, possibly photosourced, detail textures, models that aren't too blocky. Stuff like Unreal Tournament, Quake III and Serious Sam looks pretty damn good IMO and seems simple enough to be doable by a small team. And that "clean" look with simple easy-to-read geometry would serve Duke's gameplay very well.

[Jimmy]

Bubble Gum Chewer, on 12 October 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

75 dollars? A month? For landline? SAY WHAT?

It's nuts. I was reading about it, and it's basically the TelComs trying to eradicate the old school telephone system through pricing it out of the market. Theoretically it should cost like $10. I've read about VoIP landlines, but they're not as robust as 'real' landline phones.

Phredreeke, on 12 October 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

Unlike the Doom and Quake engines Unreal wasn't open sourced, so if you go with UE you'll have to go with UE4 as previous versions are no longer supported (I recall this being a problem with the A Hat in Time devs as it kept them from doing a Switch port for a long time)

I didn't know that. That's a bummer. I would reckon you could create a Unreal 1/2 like experience in UE4 just as fine though.

necroslut, on 12 October 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

I've felt for a long time that the 99-01 era FPS style is underused -- simple geometry, semi-high-res textures, possibly photosourced, detail textures, models that aren't too blocky. Stuff like Unreal Tournament, Quake III and Serious Sam looks pretty damn good IMO and seems simple enough to be doable by a small team. And that "clean" look with simple easy-to-read geometry would serve Duke's gameplay very well.

It would also mimmick a little game we all wish had been released in that era.

[jkas789]

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 11:19 AM, said:

Why not the middle ground?

Retro FPS are all the rage right now. People are making em all the time, there are lots of hungry, talented designers out there. Hire some of them, make a game that is neither the lowest tier mobile thing, or high end triple AAA. That was never Gearbox's realm anyway. The Borderlands games are certainly on the higher end of production, but they are not the huge block bluster franchise machine either. Something modest, but well made, would do Duke just fine.

Like say, Voidpoint or NewBlood?

Quote

There are all these games using old engines now, it's clear the engine that Duke should be on: Unreal 1 or 2

I would think the quake engine could be a better option no?

Also getting back on the topic of things I wished gearbox did but they definitely won't because Duke is dead and fuck you give me money, how about a remake of Duke Nukem Advance? And I don't mean a TC or just a emulation, but a full on remake no the build engine added in to Duke Nukem 3D as an extra episode. Not many seem to know this but DNA was not a port of Duke 3D but rather a brand new game on a the Doom II frankenstein engine for the GBA. It has its own original enemies and even a quad shotgun. Heck they did the whole aliens in egypt before World Tour!

I mean, I'm already imagining castles in the clouds so what the heck right?

[Jimmy]

Quake engine is fine, really. But there's quite a few games that either use it or try to replicate it's style already, so it won't be so novel. I don't really think there's any notable Quake type games that have the same feel as Duke, they tend to feel more like Doom. I also can't think of any "modern retro" FPS games that are trying to emulate that 99-01 game style right now.

[OpenMaw]

For that matter, none of the retro shooters that have been made really capture Duke.

Ion Fury has some of the same elements because the engine is shared heritage to how the game is made, but the feel? Not quite the same. That's not a knock against it, don't take me that way, I'm saying it doesn't quite feel the same. Just as Blood and Redneck Rampage don't feel like Duke either, despite using similar formulas.

[necroslut]

jkas789, on 12 October 2020 - 03:17 PM, said:

Also getting back on the topic of things I wished gearbox did but they definitely won't because Duke is dead and fuck you give me money, how about a remake of Duke Nukem Advance? And I don't mean a TC or just a emulation, but a full on remake no the build engine added in to Duke Nukem 3D as an extra episode. Not many seem to know this but DNA was not a port of Duke 3D but rather a brand new game on a the Doom II frankenstein engine for the GBA. It has its own original enemies and even a quad shotgun. Heck they did the whole aliens in egypt before World Tour!

The big problem with the frequent requests for remaking or porting any of the old spin-offs is that A: it would probably take quite a bit of work and B: in the end they aren't all that good. If you're gonna spend a bunch of time on it, might as well make a new (better) game then.

Also, while I wouldn't protest an attempt to "port" the DNA campaign into Duke 3D, there are several gameplay differences, most notably the lack of ducking. Really, DNA is more of a Doom II mod than a Duke 3D episode and many things work slightly differently. Also, all the art is really low res compared to D3D and would need to be reworked to mesh.

OpenMaw, on 12 October 2020 - 03:37 PM, said:

For that matter, none of the retro shooters that have been made really capture Duke.

Ion Fury has some of the same elements because the engine is shared heritage to how the game is made, but the feel? Not quite the same. That's not a knock against it, don't take me that way, I'm saying it doesn't quite feel the same. Just as Blood and Redneck Rampage don't feel like Duke either, despite using similar formulas.

Other than to a limited extent Ion Maiden, none of the retro shooters coming out seems like they tried to capture Duke, except maybe on a very superficial level.

[jkas789]

necroslut, on 12 October 2020 - 05:01 PM, said:

The big problem with the frequent requests for remaking or porting any of the old spin-offs is that A: it would probably take quite a bit of work and B: in the end they aren't all that good. If you're gonna spend a bunch of time on it, might as well make a new (better) game then.

Also, while I wouldn't protest an attempt to "port" the DNA campaign into Duke 3D, there are several gameplay differences, most notably the lack of ducking. Really, DNA is more of a Doom II mod than a Duke 3D episode and many things work slightly differently. Also, all the art is really low res compared to D3D and would need to be reworked to mesh.

Oh I know that it is another different beast. For starters you can't just port the maps one to one and call it worth something to waste your money on. You would have to make them again with build engine design sensibilities in mind.That is why I wrote remake. And given the length of DNA you could get out of it 6 or 7 maps I garner if you get REALLY creative.

Quote

I don't really think there's any notable Quake type games that have the same feel as Duke, they tend to feel more like Doom.

Fair point.

Quote

For that matter, none of the retro shooters that have been made really capture Duke.

Quote

Other than to a limited extent Ion Maiden, none of the retro shooters coming out seems like they tried to capture Duke, except maybe on a very superficial level.

Which is weird if you ask me. You would think that someone would try to do a "modern Duke Nukem 3D" eventually but nobody seems to have taken a go at it.

[necroslut]

jkas789, on 12 October 2020 - 05:27 PM, said:

Which is weird if you ask me. You would think that someone would try to do a "modern Duke Nukem 3D" eventually but nobody seems to have taken a go at it.

Honestly, even a lot of the fans don't "get" Duke -- not the gameplay. Some of those retro shooters probably thought they were making a "Duke 3D style game".

[NNC]

Jimmy, on 12 October 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

I broke the one I had right before all this Corona nonsense and I just haven't really needed one since, and because money is tight since losing my job I've just never gotten another one. It's been so long now I kind of prefer not having one. The only thing that sucks is that to put a landline phone into my house is going to be outrageous, like $75 a month. Now that is "What the heck?" worthy.

I'm not sure if I can live without mine (also it's kinda hard to imagine we lived our lives without it for centuries lol). If nothing else, it was very important to me in my hospitalized time (and even now since I'm still in quarantine) as the only form of contact with my family and friends (and colleagues).