[Zaxtor]

Also finished that steel mill boss I've mentioned before.
Longest to make boss ever.
Insanely long con editing. Making its timing precise.
Also using ifrnd xxx in ifcount xxx for little random effects.

Probably coolest boss I ever made soo far.
Has the most complex function.
Its opening mouth effect was the hardest. When it opens its mouth to spit fire.

This boss alone has ~3200 sprites.

[Plagman]

Tea Monster, on Feb 23 2011, 02:50 PM, said:

Are you sure it's the same model? He may have approached the author of the model.

I'm not; Roma Loom pointed out that it looked like it did have the little green HUD and the posted model did not. It could be the old one, or something else. I don't really care either way, I don't feel like going to go out of my way to give him any shit because he may or may have not used HRP content.

Great news that you're working on rigging the chaingun to use in-game. Roma said he preferred the old one because it had some details that this one doesn't have, so I guess it's up to debate whether this is a strictly better replacement or not.

[Tea Monster]

DeeperThought, on Feb 23 2011, 03:04 PM, said:

I don't think the chaingun model guy understood that by donating his model to the HRP he would be agreeing to a restrictive license that would prohibit the model from being used for other purposes. In fact, the language he used suggests that the chaingun can't be used with the HRP, since that would be inconsistent with his intention of making it available to anyone who wanted to put it to good use.

This brings up another problem. There is no real direction to the HRP. The HRP should be aiming for something that looks like either Black Mesa or even Duke Reloaded. There are a load of people on this forum who want it to look just like it did in 1996. Others want it to look like an EXACT copy of the original game, but in high res. Everyone is pulling in different directions and nothing is getting done. The HRP should be saying "We want Duke to look like __________" and set up some kind of organization and get the f*ck on with it.

At the moment, people are just 'dumping and running' with models. On one hand, it's nice that we are getting this stuff in that we only have two active modellers at the moment. On the other hand, a few years ago I swore blind that I would not touch another guy's model to get it into the HRP. There are several reasons for this. Once you start messing with a model, you can find problems with it that can take ages to fix. Sometimes it is much faster and a lot less hassle to just start your own from scratch. A case in point is the guy who did the Lunar Overlord. He fixed a few UV issues but did not deliver a fixed skin to go with it. Now I can fix that, but it's going to take a lot of time - after a while, you realise that just about ALL your time is going on fixing others problems and no time is spent on getting your own shit done. Recently I broke that rule and now (again) nothing is getting done.

The other problem is what DT said. As far as the modeller is concerned he just posted a link on the website. That was probably the last time he looked it up. He dosen't know or care about the HRP's licence or usage or anything else. Then we get all bent out of shape when it (supposedly) turns up somewhere else.

[Plagman]

I don't think anyone is getting bent out of shape over anything; I was just pointing that out. As I said before I don't really personally care that the guy used the HRP font, it's just that he's not supposed to. The HRP license was written specifically because 3DR said they would only the HRP to exist if such a license existed; I'm worried that if we don't attempt to enforce it, we're just looking at the bitter end of a C&D. I don't think anyone would want that.

There's no direction because there's no director. This is very much a community-driven project; people spend the free time they have contributing. Can we really afford to simply reject 90% of the models because they suck? Making game assets is normally a full-time, paid position in the industry; here, people are just spending a few hours of their free time when they can afford it. People dump unfinished stuff on the forums because of that.

Who should be the art director? Do we then expect that artists that have different views of what the HRP should be to just stay silent and do what he says? Why shouldn't they start their own HRP?

I don't think any of the problems you mentioned have a solution.

[VinsaneOne]

Just a thought, but does 3DRealms still really care what is done with or how the HRP is used at this point in time?
Also, would any future content created fall under the new owners of the IP 2K/GBX?
3dr still might have a say in it, just wanted to know where they, as well as the community stands now.

[Jimmy]

All Duke rights were handed over to Gearbox.

[Hank]

@ VisaneOne, thanks to Plagman I can watch videos now my two cents:
Based on that license, shipped with HRP, anything in it, to do with the Duke Character, is off limits. It can not be incorporated to anything but the Duke 3D platforms/engine. The question then becomes, was the chain gun look invented by 3D Realms? If yes, you may not put it into Quake, irrespective if the new model maker gives the green light or not. Plagman is right to be worried. I personally don't come near Duke or 3D Realms.

B.t.w. You can not use Jon St. John's 'Hail To the King', nor mimic it. But you can use your own voice and say "Hail To the King", with your own stress on the phrase, and redistribute it. Because, 3D Realms did not invent the phrase nor have name rights to it. To simplify matters, fuck Duke and make your own hero. You've got the voice. The Ogre in Quake begs to be ridiculed, so does the stupid wanna-be Knight, the entire Quake character set begs for jokes and sarcasm. Then, you have the copyrights, because then it's your idea. - Just a thought, and all the best

OK Gearbox then, not 3D Realms, it's grandfathered.

[Plagman]

Gearbox only owns the Duke IP for DNF and the future. 3DR still has full rights to Duke3D.

Even if 3DR didn't invent the concept of the chaingun or a random marble floor, you're still remaking the vision that their artist had of it. The HRP is 100% of derivative work based on their original tiles, even the content not directly related to the Duke nukem character and IP. The HRP license doesn't only apply to the characters, it applies to everything in it.

[VinsaneOne]

Plagman, on Feb 23 2011, 09:30 PM, said:

Gearbox only owns the Duke IP for DNF and the future. 3DR still has full rights to Duke3D.

Even if 3DR didn't invent the concept of the chaingun or a random marble floor, you're still remaking the vision that their artist had of it. The HRP is 100% of derivative work based on their original tiles, even the content not directly related to the Duke nukem character and IP. The HRP license doesn't only apply to the characters, it applies to everything in it.

Sorry, but it's still not 100% clear. Why then did Duke Nukem Next Gen, now 'Reloaded', granted permission w/license by 2K and not 3dr? Some say 3dr, others say 2k/GBX.
Reason for confusion!

[Plagman]

It is 100% clear, it's been stated several times in the past. 3DR was also involved in Reloaded, Scott Miller initially was the one that approached the dude in the first place.

[VinsaneOne]

Plagman, on Feb 23 2011, 09:48 PM, said:

It is 100% clear, it's been stated several times in the past. 3DR was also involved in Reloaded, Scott Miller initially was the one that approached the dude in the first place.

Nope! That's not how it went. Here in the very 1st post...
http://gbxforums.gea...ad.php?t=111335
THEN Scott Miller's reply:
http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showp...p;postcount=114

[Plagman]

I didn't actually mean that Scott Miller contacted him before he posted that, I meant that he was in contact with Scott before he was in contact with Gearbox. I seem to remember more 3DR involvement after that point as well. It would make sense for GBX to be part of the discussion as well since this is a new project based on Duke Nukem as well as touching Duke3D material. There are plenty of statements from many involved people pointing out that 3DR still owns Duke3D.

[VinsaneOne]

Hank, on Feb 23 2011, 09:24 PM, said:

@ VisaneOne, thanks to Plagman I can watch videos now my two cents:
B.t.w. You can not use Jon St. John's 'Hail To the King', nor mimic it. But you can use your own voice and say "Hail To the King", with your own stress on the phrase, and redistribute it. Because, 3D Realms did not invent the phrase nor have name rights to it. To simplify matters, fuck Duke and make your own hero. You've got the voice. The Ogre in Quake begs to be ridiculed, so does the stupid wanna-be Knight, the entire Quake character set begs for jokes and sarcasm. Then, you have the copyrights, because then it's your idea. - Just a thought, and all the best

How about another 2 cents and say 'good looking out', Plagman, for the Flash Player link!
The guy doing this mod is only 15, but has enough sense to not use ANY Jon St John at all. That's good for me and I'm doing all the lines. I can come so close to Jon that people do say it's his voice not mine. That's why I do it more in my voice and still get by. Some old lines re-done by me are being used but there will be allot more new stuff we've written added later on.

Plagman, on Feb 23 2011, 10:30 PM, said:

I didn't actually mean that Scott Miller contacted him before he posted that, I meant that he was in contact with Scott before he was in contact with Gearbox. I seem to remember more 3DR involvement after that point as well. It would make sense for GBX to be part of the discussion as well since this is a new project based on Duke Nukem as well as touching Duke3D material. There are plenty of statements from many involved people pointing out that 3DR still owns Duke3D.

Yea, sometimes it's hard telling real facts from hearsay, we really don't know everything.
In any event you should still look into exactly where things stand today. Since so much has changed on the topic of Duke, it's IP, legally and otherwise, would it effect the HRP or not. Just for peace of mind, if you haven't already.

[Zaxtor]

Tested the thing Mentioned.
results.
It is soo damn cool. Probably coolest boss I ever did soo far.
I'll post few screenies of it.
The boss comes out of the lava, after hitting it several times. It will sink into the lava and comes out in a different area.
When it weakens it will start to shoot these plasma fire ball (star-like orbs).
With HRP The rise/sinking is cool the sprites doesn't fuckup such as passing through the other sprites (like old Duke does).
last scene was the hardest ever. boss opens its mouth and spits deadly fireball then closes it mouth (cycle).
When it dies it does a damn spectacular explosion show.

[Stabs]

plagman, regarding that fog and polymer issue, i think those sectors with fog pals have to ignore the vis change the weapons make, i think thats what is doing it.

[Jblade]

Looks nice Zaxtor, glad you're working to outdo yourself on the crazy stuff you managed in Oblivion

[Mikko]

James, on Feb 24 2011, 11:42 AM, said:

Looks nice Zaxtor, glad you're working to outdo yourself on the crazy stuff you managed in Oblivion

I'm betting though that it's not gonna be a fun fight in practice, at least not to anyone besides Zaxtor. Zaxtor's admittedly cool ideas tend not to work well in practice, at least not in terms of fun factor.

[Zaxtor]

The boss works 100% well.
I tested it many, many times and works 100%.

Even with and without its slayer.
Without slayer takes 8-12 times more shots.
Slayer is not a secret thing is just hard to grab.
Slayer can rape the boss faster.

Also is the boss of lv9.

Room is good size and you can easily dodge its shots.
You can even kill it without getting hit once. If you're a pro.
Most of its shot doesn't do much damage.
Only fireball and other weap. But are fair enough to dodge.

PS
The fireball as the one with a long trail.
Those plasma fireball does medium damage.

[Mikko]

I'm sure it works technically but that, like in Oblivion, it just ends up being too time consuming so that the fun factor quickly disappears and the fight turns into a tedious, mechanical work.

[Zaxtor]

Weapon6A, Weapon 6B and last weapon does a tremendous of damage.

Last weapon is mostly made to hit multi enemies at the same time (area damage). Not deadly as the tripbomb in Oblivion.
Is similar to the weapon in SST.

Weapon 6 does very large amount of damage within a small radius.
Probably can kill the miniboss 2 in a few shots


Weapons will have some BoostersPak you can add to do more damage to bosses mostly hard bosses.

Example inside boss code.
Shrinker is the microwave gun. It spawns some nuking effects
Dragon slayer makes it receive more damage and produces a violent flash.

ifhitweapon
cactor GEMEYE1HIT (that makes the boss eye flash when you hit it)
state checkgem01astate
ifwasweapon SHRINKSPARK
{
sound ELECNUKE
spawn NUKING_EFFECTOR
ifvare DRAGONSLAYER 1 { spawn ULTRANUKING }
}

enda



Most major and maybe some mini bosses accept the 2 and 3 will have slayers such as an ifvare BLAHBLAHSLAVER 1 { spawn extradamageeffects }.




Besides bosses in this mod has more diversity. They do more. When they weaken they change behaviors.

[zykov eddy]

VinsaneOne, on Feb 23 2011, 08:37 PM, said:

How about another 2 cents and say 'good looking out', Plagman, for the Flash Player link!
The guy doing this mod is only 15, but has enough sense to not use ANY Jon St John at all. That's good for me and I'm doing all the lines. I can come so close to Jon that people do say it's his voice not mine. That's why I do it more in my voice and still get by. Some old lines re-done by me are being used but there will be allot more new stuff we've written added later on.


Yea, sometimes it's hard telling real facts from hearsay, we really don't know everything.
In any event you should still look into exactly where things stand today. Since so much has changed on the topic of Duke, it's IP, legally and otherwise, would it effect the HRP or not. Just for peace of mind, if you haven't already.

Reminds me Dragon boss from Zelda 2.

[Scott_AW]

zykov eddy, on Feb 25 2011, 12:13 AM, said:

Reminds me Dragon boss from Zelda 2.

That's it, I thought it looked familiar...anyway you can make the neck less boxy?

[Danukem]

Working on getting the gameplay balanced with Jedrik and fixing bugs. Almost there.

[Scott_AW]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=DgNNtss-y_M

Some fun with explosives. Still need to get around recording audio when I do this. But I might need to use my main computer(currently being Sim'd)

[Danukem]

Those cannons look very nice.

[Scott_AW]

The best part is that the shadows cast by voxels work on slanted surfaces. So the shadow from the cannon muzzle over the slant near the edge still cast a shadow.

Higher slants don't work as well though.

Also found out that only sprite shadows can be partially transparent, as you can see in the cannon ball pile, I'm guessing the shadows for voxels are voxels themselves, and they draw and vanish in squares.

[Tea Monster]

Agreed, the canons look brilliant. It's almost spooky, how the nothing turns to face you as you go through the game! This is how 1997 should have been! The only crit I would have is that some of the tiled textures are a bit too tiled. It looks like a really solid effort. Lots of work there!

DT - that looks amazing!

[Ranger366]

Hello guys it's me, RangerC.

I didn't stole the chaingun model, i modelled it by myself in 3DS max.
http://img88.imagesh...dssnapshot.jpg/

It was my first real 3DS max model (still learn to UV) and used the picture as you can see as a reference, it was the best picture I found that showed the detail of the view model object.

Also notice that I am not using HRP content for any version I publish online to the public, I am really busy with school and am concentrating on the code now.
VinsaneOne wants to play a beta of this, so I am finishing everything so far that it is in a playable state.
I know the problems with the HRP content, and I apologise for the troubles i just created.
I hope you can understand me in some way.

[VinsaneOne]

Ranger366, on Mar 1 2011, 01:59 PM, said:

Hello guys it's me, RangerC.

I didn't stole the chaingun model, i modelled it by myself in 3DS max.
http://img88.imagesh...dssnapshot.jpg/

It was my first real 3DS max model (still learn to UV) and used the picture as you can see as a reference, it was the best picture I found that showed the detail of the view model object.

Also notice that I am not using HRP content for any version I publish online to the public, I am really busy with school and am concentrating on the code now.
VinsaneOne wants to play a beta of this, so I am finishing everything so far that it is in a playable state.
I know the problems with the HRP content, and I apologize for the troubles i just created.
I hope you can understand me in some way.

Before anything else, lets welcome RangerC to Duke4 net!
You coming aboard offering this explanation along with an apology is more than anyone here would have expected.
That tells a lot about you, and should go a long way in terms of respect and understanding from the members of these forums. Lets hope everyone agrees.

[Plagman]

Yeah, thanks for the clarification.