[Romulus]

HulkNukem, on 27 December 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

I liked the art and style of Blood Dragon but thought the characters and dialogue were off-putting; plus, I know some folks here don't like the Flying Wild Hog style of arena-based level design.

Tastes differ. The humor, the voice acting was all a parody of the 80's, but they wanted to be as authentic as possible. They hired the guy who played protagonist of the first Terminator movie and the role of Corporal Dwayne Hicks in the Aliens movie, Michael Connell Biehn as the voice behind Rex Power Colt. There are lots of cleverly placed movie and then-pop culture references in that game, starting from but not limited to the AJM 9 Magnum which is a nod to Alex J. Murphy from Robocop and a whole lot more.

The Arena based shooting theme brought DOOM (2016) success. It does get repetitive, but the truth is they managed to keep things interesting with secrets, and the fact that most of the time you're allowed to explore the entire map even after you've dealt with all the enemies. It can get repetitive, and I agree whole heartedly that we wouldn't want that in a Duke game. But something similar in terms of pace when it comes to the shooting, and some trap like areas where it's an arena and the only way to progress through it is to kill every enemy every once in awhile wouldn't be bad.

[spessu_sb]

Romulus, on 27 December 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

As awkward as it may sound, but the dream team to develop the next Duke game would be a combination of Flying Wild Hog and the guys that did Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon: Ubisoft Montreal,

Not sure I fully agree with either firm getting their hands on the Duke license.

Blood Dragon is one of my fav games of 2013, and it really was an game which did it's own thing. (how many fps games we see which are set in 80's awesome neonlit future?) but I don't still think that a BD like game could go as a Duke game. Hard Reset devs I'd never give access to Duke since they clearly haven't "got it" at all. Best game PCF ever made was the original Painkiller and even that only because it was extremely badass and had quite meaty combat but the level design was already in that completely linear and arena based. Stuff has gotten only worse once FWH began it's journey..

In Hard Reset they gimped the movement agility which you had in 2004's Painkiller. They also gimped the firepower which you had in Painkiller and instead now have you start from zero and force you to use upgrade systems. It also gimped actual hard to get to secrets. In 2004 PK you had secrets which required understanding of the bunnyhop mechanic and utilzing some ramp boosts and wallslides (almost goes into the Quake engine territory) and in HR instead they have you moving at snails pace looking for barrels to break walls with

Shadow Warrior reboot and Shadow Warrior 2 also are very much different from a Duke Nukem game since they yet once again focus on horde combat and or arenas instead of clever non-linear level design with individual enemy placement, keycards and stuff.

If I'd had to quickly come up with a firm that I might give access to make a Duke game? It might be Croteam since they have atleast shown some legit improvement on their thing. Imo you can clearly see in SS3 BFE how they atleast tiny bit went into more the direction of the classic 90'fps. They have quite a few sections with keycards and legit backtracking related to those keycards, also individual enemyplacement in the town sections and underground aswell.
Croteam has also imo made Sam more Duke-like badass in it, he doesn't seem so childish and annoying anymore. I legitly think some of the SS3 quotes got kinda near Duke's iconic oneliners because they were said with proper tone of voice and certain amount of seriousity being involved.

[Danukem]

Bulletstorm is currently on sale for $5 on steam, but it will not start on windows 10 unless you add a missing dll. Fucking retarded, right?

You can download the dll from here: http://community.pcg...storm-xlivedll/

Then you put the dll here: Steam\steamapps\common\Bulletstorm\Binaries\Win32

And then the game will actually run.

[HulkNukem]

Romulus, on 27 December 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

Tastes differ. The humor, the voice acting was all a parody of the 80's, but they wanted to be as authentic as possible. They hired the guy who played protagonist of the first Terminator movie and the role of Corporal Dwayne Hicks in the Aliens movie, Michael Connell Biehn as the voice behind Rex Power Colt. There are lots of cleverly placed movie and then-pop culture references in that game, starting from but not limited to the AJM 9 Magnum which is a nod to Alex J. Murphy from Robocop and a whole lot more.

The Arena based shooting theme brought DOOM (2016) success. It does get repetitive, but the truth is they managed to keep things interesting with secrets, and the fact that most of the time you're allowed to explore the entire map even after you've dealt with all the enemies. It can get repetitive, and I agree whole heartedly that we wouldn't want that in a Duke game. But something similar in terms of pace when it comes to the shooting, and some trap like areas where it's an arena and the only way to progress through it is to kill every enemy every once in awhile wouldn't be bad.

Part of the problem in the humor part of DNF was Duke would make fun of current era game mechanics, but would then also fall victim of it. "Power Armor is for pussies" but you have similar regenerating health and a 2-weapon limit; "I hate Valve puzzles" and yet you still have to solve it instead of just blowing it up and moving on (like how the "I don't need no fucking keycard" part went)
Blood Dragon falls victim to this too in the first few seconds with the tutorial popups. The character keeps bitching about how many popups there are and that he just wants to play the game. Yeah, so do I, and yet the developers are still throwing those annoying fucking popups up. Humor in Duke needs to be more subtle, not in your face LOL LOOK HOW FUNNY
Everything else about Blood Dragon was great; the voice acting itself was fine, the art was great, and the music is on another level. But the writing was terrible, and if it's suppose to be because "well lol sci fi B-movie" then it's sad it has to drag on for the entire game.

Duke is also more about environment exploration and interactivity, something that doesn't go too hand in hand with arena-based combat. DNF had these in parts of the levels and it dragged the game down. Doom worked because of how fast paced it was, and even though there was hidden areas to encourage exploration, you don't stop and smell the roses like you would a Duke game.

Obviously this is all IMO. I mean I think between Blood Dragon, any Flying Wild Hog game, and Bulletstorm, Bulletstorm is closest to a Duke game, and even then it's not anywhere near a proper one.

[Kawa]

It had to blood drag on, surely?

[Micky C]

spessu_sb, on 28 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

If I'd had to quickly come up with a firm that I might give access to make a Duke game? It might be Croteam since they have atleast shown some legit improvement on their thing. Imo you can clearly see in SS3 BFE how they atleast tiny bit went into more the direction of the classic 90'fps. They have quite a few sections with keycards and legit backtracking related to those keycards, also individual enemyplacement in the town sections and underground aswell.
Croteam has also imo made Sam more Duke-like badass in it, he doesn't seem so childish and annoying anymore. I legitly think some of the SS3 quotes got kinda near Duke's iconic oneliners because they were said with proper tone of voice and certain amount of seriousity being involved.

I'm not sure if Croteam can pull of the kind of level design and combat you'd need in a Duke game. Their levels in SS3 heavily copy and paste the same assets over and over. Plus it goes without saying that it's an arena shooter relying on its sheer number of enemies. They might be able to do it if they put their mind to it, but they certainly haven't done anything like it in the past.

I'd like to see what Human Head can do with Duke. I'm not sure what kind of state the company is in these days though.

[spessu_sb]

Micky C, on 29 December 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm not sure if Croteam can pull of the kind of level design and combat you'd need in a Duke game. Their levels in SS3 heavily copy and paste the same assets over and over. Plus it goes without saying that it's an arena shooter relying on its sheer number of enemies. They might be able to do it if they put their mind to it, but they certainly haven't done anything like it in the past.

I'd like to see what Human Head can do with Duke. I'm not sure what kind of state the company is in these days though.

As I said, "if I had to quickly come up with a firm.." So obviously I don't see it as an ideal choice either but there really doesn't seem to be that many folks who understand these kinda game designs. So it's kinda hard to pick a company who'd be able to pull the job. I know Croteam haven't done that kinda designs in past but I do think SS3 is sofar their best work, mainly because of it including some 90's fps style design choices. However it is true that the game is still at the core about that same old horde fighting which is Serious Sam and not Old School.

Human Head could be interesting considering I think they made Prey fairly well in the end.

[X-Vector]

HulkNukem, on 29 December 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Duke is also more about environment exploration and interactivity, something that doesn't go too hand in hand with arena-based combat.

I'm glad someone finally mentioned "the i-word"; strange to see that what was once deemed the most vital design aspect of DNF has now taken a backseat to "ye old school feel" and suggestions of developing studios specialising in combat arenas and 'zany' humour.
I wouldn't want Croteam, Flying Wild Hog, Human Head, Ubisoft or id (INO) anywhere close to a new Duke game; the problem is that I don't know of any party that would fit the bill.

In a hypothetical scenario Valve would make an interesting prospect because they've shown in the past that they can do interactivity, level design and humour, but I think their particular style of wit doesn't quite match a Duke title.
Rockstar, again hypothetically, could be another attractive choice as I think they did have the right attitude back in GTA's "3D" era, but they've become too big and now seem only interested in pleasing the lowest common denominator (i.e. the unfiltered 10-16 years olds spamming barely literate throwaway comments on Youtube videos).
As for smaller studios, Obsidian comes to mind (KotOR II, Fallout: New Vegas, South Park: The Stick of Truth), but with Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny they've moved away from being guns for hire and are doing their own projects now.

I'm pinning my hopes on the invention of a working time machine and someone with the guts to take it for a spin and the clout to talk some sense into the George Broussard of the early '00s.

[Sledgehammer]

Obsidian's strongest point in their games was always writing, I doubt they could pull a great Duke game, even KotOR II (their best game in my opinion) level design was quite lacking. And PoE pretty much showed that they lost almost all the talent (I'm pretty sure many people left/were fired after Vegas), the final nail in the coffin was Avellone's leaving, he left because they "toned down" his writing in PoE which is why Tyranny is even worse game.

The most ideal for Duke game wouldn't be just one known company but rather a team of talented people from various companies/freelancers such as level designers, writers, programmers, etc. I wonder if Voidpoint could make a dream team for the new Duke game, because I doubt Gearbox would care to do that (though I was surprised they hired old guys to make new Duke 3D episode).

[Danukem]

Bizarrely, Bulletstorm Full Clip Edition is still being sold at $42.50, even with the base game on sale at $5. And as far as I can tell, there is nothing in Full Clip other than a Duke Nukem skin and voice to justify making it more expensive. After playing it for a few hours, I do like Bulletstorm, but they will have to knock the price down to almost nothing before I would buy Full Clip.

[Kawa]

Consider my jaw dropped.

[MusicallyInspired]

I have to concede that the lack of GFWL is a large boon. But not $37.50 worth of a boon.

[Player Lin]

MusicallyInspired, on 30 December 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

I have to concede that the lack of GFWL is a large boon. But not $37.50 worth of a boon.

It just not worth that high price.

I would like just try Bulletstorm if the price just much lower...even just for the Duke skin...

[X-Vector]

MusicallyInspired, on 30 December 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

I have to concede that the lack of GFWL is a large boon. But not $37.50 worth of a boon.

Here you go: http://community.pcg...storm-xlivedll/

That'll be $35, please.

[Lunick]

X-Vector, on 31 December 2016 - 02:37 AM, said:

Here you go: http://community.pcg...storm-xlivedll/

That'll be $35, please.

Where's the Co-op, achievements and controller support + DLC

(Still not worth the asking price)

[Micky C]

Trooper Dan, on 30 December 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

even with the base game on sale at $5.

Is it fair to compare it to the sale price though? I guess your point is that if people did a search for Bulletstorm right now, they'd see two options where one is almost 10% of the price of the other...

I can almost feel Gearbox trying to be a dick and maneuvering to get the original Bulletstorm taken down a la Megaton and WT


So we can definitely play the original without GFWL then? If so I might pick it up, either at this sale or a later one (assuming my above prophecy doesn't come true. Then again you'd think if they had the power, they would have done it already).

[DavoX]

Isn't 5 dollars the actual price for it and not the sale? I dont remember really. But I think it was.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm just not interested in the game without the Duke skin ironically. Still not worth that price though.

[Danukem]

Micky C, on 31 December 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

So we can definitely play the original without GFWL then? If so I might pick it up, either at this sale or a later one (assuming my above prophecy doesn't come true. .

Yes, just add that dll that I linked above and it will run fine.

[Micky C]

DavoX, on 31 December 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Isn't 5 dollars the actual price for it and not the sale? I dont remember really. But I think it was.

It's normally $20.

Trooper Dan, on 31 December 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Yes, just add that dll that I linked above and it will run fine.

Thanks, I just bought the game. People need to make a stand against developers re-releasing games at high prices with minimal modification. Sure, if the game is really old and hasn't been available to buy anywhere for a while, or if some serious improvement is done then it would be worthwhile. None of this is the case for WT and BS. With Bioshock the improvement was also pretty negligable (and apparently worse in some ways), but it was given to owners of the original for free which is fantastic. Similarly Deus Ex Human Revolution Directors cut was offered at a massive discount. Gearbox is just greedy.

Are the graphics of BS:EE much improved over the original? I'm guessing they put in a few extra shaders, beyond that I'm not too sure. Much like DNF, there seems to be a high level of Depth of Field that masks potential low detail levels.

[TerminX]

Sadly, I think I've been dealing with the behind the scenes business bullshit aspect of game development for long enough that Gearbox's pricing model makes sense to me. If you think you can move copies at $60 per unit, then that's what you charge, because the people who would have bought it for $20 will still buy it for $20 when it's eventually available for that price. Can they move copies at $60 per unit? Who knows. Lowering the price after release is always an option, but raising it never is. Maybe it's a cheap strategy to get people to talk about the game--any thread on any forum that talks about the price of the game is a discussion about the game that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

[Micky C]

I'm sure that their initial investment in the product is so low that they can get away with selling a minimal number of copies and still make a profit. I image re-releases such at this are a relatively cost effective way of making money off games.

Doesn't mean we have to like it or go along with it.

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 31 December 2016 - 10:00 PM, said:

Sadly, I think I've been dealing with the behind the scenes business bullshit aspect of game development for long enough that Gearbox's pricing model makes sense to me. If you think you can move copies at $60 per unit, then that's what you charge, because the people who would have bought it for $20 will still buy it for $20 when it's eventually available for that price. Can they move copies at $60 per unit? Who knows. Lowering the price after release is always an option, but raising it never is. Maybe it's a cheap strategy to get people to talk about the game--any thread on any forum that talks about the price of the game is a discussion about the game that otherwise wouldn't have happened.

Exactly. When you factor in things like dev costs, first party royalties, marketing, etc etc the $60 price point makes sense.

[TerminX]

And then there's ESRB costs, whatever Microsoft and Sony charge to publish on their platforms, etc. Game development, publishing, and marketing is not cheap. Even if you have a completed game from years past as a starting point, it is not cheap. That just means you're paying less content guys and can get the resulting product to market faster... every other cost still applies.

[Danukem]

TerminX, on 31 December 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

And then there's ESRB costs, whatever Microsoft and Sony charge to publish on their platforms, etc. Game development, publishing, and marketing is not cheap. Even if you have a completed game from years past as a starting point, it is not cheap. That just means you're paying less content guys and can get the resulting product to market faster... every other cost still applies.

That sounds like a good argument for not re-releasing old games. You have most of the costs, while lacking the excitement of a new release. The exception would be a game that was a megahit or has become a cult-classic since the initial release -- neither of which applies to Bulletstorm.

[Micky C]

I've just played the first level of the original. Really enjoying it so far. I don't see how it needs a remaster. The graphics hold up quite well, and the gameplay is pretty solid. I've read that the Full Clip edition lets you carry all weapons at once? That'd be a nice touch, but they're dreaming if that justifies rebuying the game. There might be some extra content I haven't come across, but everything I've read implies that the gameplay has run its course when you get to the later stages of the game, and that it doesn't leave you wanting more. At least not more of the same.

[Sledgehammer]

The only thing this game really needs is GFWL removal and playable coop, something what wouldn't work without this shitty DRM and that of course unless you don't care about coop and want singleplayer only. Honestly, I didn't even care about weapon limit because this game has a kick, not many games have kicks and proper/fun physics for it, perhaps Dark Messiah was the best game that used it. Though the game was kinda boring for me close to the end, if only the game also had better level design.

[Kawa]

The best game with kicks has to be Duke3D though.

[Sledgehammer]

I wish it was, but you can't do this in Duke 3D. That's actually the reason why I have a little interest in Bulletstorm re-release, it has proper kick mechanics. Too bad there will never be a Duke game on source engine.

[Micky C]

Finished the second level. So far it's turning out to be a way better DNF than DNF. That's not to say it's a better Duke game, but certainly a better DNF game.

> The story and characters are an improvement on DNF (hard not to be).
> No tedious platforming or puzzles.
> Over the top action.
> Extreme and practical environmental interactivity generalized over the whole game. Not localized pointless stuff like a pinball machine.
> Character sounds like a badass with the right sort of voice. Makes Duke's DNF-onwards voice sound pretty soft by comparison.
> Large, exciting, extended set pieces. The ones in DNF were relatively few and far between, and somewhat forgettable. There's a sort of back-of-truck sequence vaguely reminiscent of the one from the 1998 trailer for example.
> Turret sequences that actually work for a change. They give you a big gun and you let loose. No tedious cooldown mechanic to suck the fun out of it.
> Exotic locations. I'm really struggling to remember scenery from DNF.
> Cutscenes don't drag the game down, and have more personality to them than for example Duke silently taking abuse from the President.

Having said that, I can't quite see Duke fitting into it. The tone of the story is all wrong for the character. I.e I assume it would be Duke's fault that they're stranded on the planet which is un-Duke. It's also a revenge story, where he'd basically be trying to rescue himself off the planet, as opposed to trying to save a planet (the story could develop more in that direction later for all I know though, but it'd still start off wrong for Duke). Having played the bit from the end of the trailer where Duke swears non-stop, that swearing isn't in that particular moment in the game, which means Gearbox chose to add it in specifically for Duke which feels gratuitous and a step in the wrong direction.

If Gearbox made a new Duke game, and kept the points I listed above, made the levels a lot more non-linear and with variety between levels, changed the plot points in the above paragraph, and add in a variety of locations in which the levels take place, then it'd be a pretty damn good Duke game IMO.