[Marphy Black]

SiN 2 was not in Source. I don't believe we had definitive confirmation of what engine they were planning to use for it, but the Doom 3 engine/id Tech 4 does ring a bell based on what I recall from a resume from someone I can't remember.

SiN 1: Source was developed (or rather, what little that was developed) in 2005 by a single guy, Dale Broadbent, who only spent three months at Ritual. I believe it was essentially a sort of intern position, but the point is that this was long after SiN 2, and he himself received little outside help or support from the rest of the team as the project was at that point largely just a proof of concept while the rest of them focused on the Episodes. I'd have to review all of my past logs to get the specific details, but this is the message that Dale sent me in regards to my SiN 1: Source video:

[Marphy Black]

Marphy Black, on 31 January 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

SiN 2 was not in Source. I don't believe we had definitive confirmation of what engine they were planning to use for it, but the Doom 3 engine/id Tech 4 does ring a bell based on what I recall from a resume from someone I can't remember.

As a followup, the resume of Ranjeet Singhal confirms that the SiN 2 prototype was developed on the Doom 3/id Tech 4 engine:

Ranjeet"Rungy" Singhal said:

Sin 2 Ritual/iD
Lead Animator
Led a team of about half a dozen animators for a prototype of Sin 2 using the Doom 3 engine. Created and documented all Art Dept production processes. Handled rigging, animation tasks as well as developed the art pipeline for max with iD Software. Wrote maxscripts to assist iD with their mocap pipeline. Both Max and Maya work here. All work completed before Doom3 shipped, Sin 2 was never picked up by a publisher.

[PikaCommando]

(Thanks to Marphy Black who found and posted this over at the Quake Corner)

Ex-Ritual dev says some stuff about SiN Episode 2 a few years ago on Quake3World.

Here's a screencap in case the website meets the same fate as Doom3World:



This is the ultimate Dopefish secret he was talking about:




Someone on the old 3D Realms forums also found another well-hidden Dopefish secret in the original SiN, but it looks like there's no legitimate way to trigger it without noclip. I tried opening up the .bsp and .scr file in Notepad, but can't find any teleport or alternate player start entity on the map which means there isn't a teleport to it and it isn't somehow activated through the previous map.

There's another area with strong currents that has a message that isn't accessible without noclip too. In the area when you trigger the submarines spawning, the cave the first submarine is spawning from has strong currents that cannot be swum through. However, if you noclip in there and disable noclip again while moving around like in the Dopefish secret too, you'll get a message saying "SUBMARINE STARTED!". It might just be some leftover debugging stuff though.

[jpp]

I've been trying to locate the SinED toolset source code, but all the download links are broken:

http://www.ritualist.../toolsframe.htm
SinEd toolset source code (562 Kb)

http://www.ritualist...ead.php?t=13356
http://home.pacbell....im68/source.zip

I am wondering if anyone one has it? The archive name was sin_tools_source.zip.

I was only able to locate compiled version of the SinED toolset (sintools_full.zip) and game source for SiN 1.10 and WoS 1.04.

Also, in case anyone has access to the source code for the engine part - it would be awesome if it ever gets released.

[OpenMaw]

Civvie11 gave SIN some loving. He also did a review of the mostly forgotten SIN anime movie, and SIN Episodes. I don't exactly agree with his review on the latter, but the SIN review is quite enjoyable, and it's nice to see it getting some more attention.

[PokeThePower]

jpp, on 05 March 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

I've been trying to locate the SinED toolset source code, but all the download links are broken...

I had the exact same results you did when searching... and unfortunately don't know anyone who might have the content you're looking for.

[TerminX]

Which tools did that zip contain the source for?

[Forge]

half the links on this page are dead

http://www.ritualist.../node/tools.htm

Eutectic (eutectic@ritualistic.com) is probably a dead end as well


edit:
don't know if this the the actual source or tool set:

directory:
/other/edtool
is:
sintools_full.zip
SIN TOOLS ( Release Version )- 12/01/98

zip file contains a source folder

http://www8.tok2.com...lexis/sin_file/

[leilei]

TerminX, on 03 April 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

Which tools did that zip contain the source for?

I'd expect just the bsp/rad/model/texture compiler tools source. The editor would be closed still. Anyone chasing these sources with a hope in a source port from it would be sorely mistaken.

[TerminX]

leilei, on 03 April 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

I'd expect just the bsp/rad/model/texture compiler tools source. The editor would be closed still. Anyone chasing these sources with a hope in a source port from it would be sorely mistaken.

Hmm... if I zip up some SiN utility source I have, I can get within 5KB of the size of the previously released archive, but only if I include the source for the editor itself.

[Hendricks266]

Quote

SinEd toolset source code (562 Kb):
This zip archive contains all the source code of the SinEd tool suite: SinEd, the compilation tools, the 3DSmax and 3DSmax2 plug-ins, all the works.

[jpp]

TerminX, on 03 April 2018 - 04:09 PM, said:

Hmm... if I zip up some SiN utility source I have, I can get within 5KB of the size of the previously released archive, but only if I include the source for the editor itself.

Can you release it (all of the source code)? That might be it. Thanks.

[thelastdisciple]

Recently found myself a genuine cd copy of Wages of Sin, no big box though just the jewel case, I always wanted to own this but at the time it came out i was but a wee lad and my parents were really tight with cash.

I know the gold version on GOG has Wages with it, i still wanted to find this physically though.

[NightFright]

I actually have boxed copies of both the original version and the addon. Back then I considered it a total waste of shelf space. Today I am glad to have both boxes. xD

[KareBear]

https://www.flickr.c...s/32565792@N08/

I found a gallery of SiN screenshots uploaded by Tom Mustaine,it includes some interesting stuff such as unreleased levels and a remake of the Operation Bayshield Quake machinima done in SiN.

[PikaCommando]

KareBear, on 09 June 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:

https://www.flickr.c...s/32565792@N08/

I found a gallery of SiN screenshots uploaded by Tom Mustaine,it includes some interesting stuff such as unreleased levels and a remake of the Operation Bayshield Quake machinima done in SiN.

Nice find! I never would've thought to look at these sites.

Looks like these screenshots were from 2005. There's stuff such as the exterior for the Metalworks level which was never seen in pre-release screenshots (only the interior was seen in one Q1 version screenshot from 1997)



The building reminds me of Strogg architecture from Quake 2.

[KareBear]

https://imgur.com/a/QyyHukp

I also found some Sin Episodes concept art from Richard Luong.

[Honza]

Btw what is the current best approach to play this in 1920x1080 on modern hardware with highest possible image quality?

[PikaCommando]

Honza, on 30 June 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Btw what is the current best approach to play this in 1920x1080 on modern hardware with highest possible image quality?

Try the steps labeled in the first post, which is as follows:

Quote

Download the SiNPatcher if you're using the retail 1.11/GOG version, or the SiNSteamPatcher if you're using the 1.12/Steam version. Just type in the resolution you want to run in the program then select 1152x864 in the game. Don't forget to go into the in-game console and type fov 106.27 if you're using 16:9 to get Hor+ aspect ratio. Otherwise it would be Vert- where the top and bottom of the view is cut off (you can check it by seeing if the weapon viewmodel is lower than it usually is). You might also want to set cl_maxfps 125 just in case so it won't stutter/lag/ear rape.

Next, download this unofficial patch that fixed certain bugs, reverting the censored textures back to the originals if you're playing the Steam version, adding Wages of SiN to the Steam version, as well as having fixed music scripts that adds in tracks that were left out (such as the final stage and boss music that were otherwise using the penultimate level's music).

nVidia users might have trouble selecting the widescreen-patched 1152x864 to due 3dfx being a bitch and reverting things to 640x480, so you might have to use nVidia Inspector to turn on an obscure little setting called Extension Limit that enables you to select Default OpenGL in game which lets you select the widescreen-patched 1152x864.

[Forge]

Somebody recently gifted me SiN from gog. I consider it a birthday gift (my precious)

This game is cool as hell. Wish I had bought it back when it came out.

Finished the main game, haven't had time to look at the addon that came with it..

[Micky C]

Apparently it was extremely buggy when it first came out, so it’s probably better you didn’t.

[leilei]

It had a big patch just around release too which was a mandatory download. That had a lot of complaints to go with the size too (it was very much still a dial-up world)

[Jblade]

Forge, on 08 July 2018 - 07:41 PM, said:

Somebody recently gifted me SiN from gog. I consider it a birthday gift (my precious)

This game is cool as hell. Wish I had bought it back when it came out.

Finished the main game, haven't had time to look at the addon that came with it..

Wages of SiN is really really good, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try as well.

[Malgon]

Yeah, I remember it was like a 30-40 MB patch. I ended up getting it off of a CD from some magazine, which was great as before the patch the load times were absolutely horrible, with one load taking 8 minutes on my computer. Trying to get through the Sintek Chemical Plant level was painful with all the reloading.

[Forge]

I had a good download manager / resumer at the time. What I didn't have was much free time for recreational activity.
I barely even got around to playing Quake II or Unreal & I never bought or played Half-Life, or much of anything of significance released afterwards.
This game represents how much I missed out on. Nostalgia volume goes to 11.


As far as SiN goes, it has a few annoyances - like pony-tail man has sticks of butter on the bottom of his boots when standing on slopes, or trying to platform, but the good things about this game far outweigh the bad.

The story isn't pulitzer prize winning stuff, but it's decent.
JC is an annoying little buttnugget, but the protagonist and antagonist are colorful.
The enemies are bullet sponges, but there are headshots and the AI is better than the average run-at-the-player idiot.
Platforming sucks because of mister skid-boots, but it isn't used often & most levels are rich environments with other interactive elements.

[PikaCommando]

I don't find JC annoying, I think his interactions with Blade really makes this game stands out from its contemporaries. I'm a bit disappointed that he's mostly replaced by Jessica Cannon in SiN Episodes, who I'm certain is really Alyx Vance from Half-Life 2 after plastic surgery.

[Forge]

My opinion expanded:
JC allowed for Blade to come across as the i-want-to-punch-you-in-the-face-but-i'll-let-you-live-today tough guy, so he served a purpose, but I found him too smarmy and know-it-all-ish. It felt forced or cliche on several occasions.

[PokeThePower]

https://gamefaqs.gam...-sin/faqs/17101

[Forge]

SilenceSam, on 09 July 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

https://gamefaqs.gam...-sin/faqs/17101

tricky.
I probably would have tried that 20 years ago. These modern point-n-click gui o/s's have made me lazy.

[Player Lin]

Jblade, on 08 July 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

Wages of SiN is really really good, I'd definitely recommend giving it a try as well.

I'm still considering for years about rebuy a copy of SiN from GoG because I already had Steam version of SiN(I don't give a shit about censored/modified textures, I focused on the game itself and that was awesome enough)...and sadly WoS never happened on Steam too, and I don't want have to other copy of SiN just for WoS... :\

Yes, I know there is a way to play WoS with Steam SiN but I still needed a legal copy of WoS...

==

I really hope there will be more SiN games, the episode project was felt so interesting, but never happened after Ritual became a casual game company and most of SiN devs left.