[PsychoGoatee]

MetHy, on 12 March 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

Who would play in skill1 or 2? Too easy.

I would, I'm more of a Duke and Doom guy, and in comparison I personally find some of the damage hitscanners can deal out of nowhere in that game is slightly less enjoyable for me than alternatives. So, ideally, a functional set of difficulty settings would enhance my enjoyment of the game, even just a little less damage like setting 2 is supposed to do.

I've beaten the game, it's not "too" difficult for me, but that doesn't mean skill settings 1 and 2 are "meaningless", would be nice to have that bug fixed. Especially since the atmosphere and flavor of Blood for me is what makes it stand out, more so than combat.

[MetHy]

PsychoGoatee, on 13 March 2016 - 12:11 AM, said:

I've beaten the game, it's not "too" difficult for me, but that doesn't mean skill settings 1 and 2 are "meaningless", would be nice to have that bug fixed. Especially since the atmosphere and flavor of Blood for me is what makes it stand out, more so than combat.

I think combat is as important. Blood has more gameplay depth than any other 2.5D FPS I know, there are a huge variety of enemies, and the AI of cultists is excellent, it was the best until Half-Life grunts. You really have to pick your weapon, and its firing mode, depending on your enemies and on the situation, and imo that depth only starts to really show up on skill3 (and is inexistant in BloodCM).

[Duke of Hazzard]

Blood is pretty hard. Ammo management is paramount. I overused the shotgun and tommy gun so I found myself without being able to kill those damn ghosts because they're almost invulnerable to other guns.

It should be telling that you can't shotgun your way through when the gargoyles take 4 full blasts to go down.

[PikaCommando]

What's your favorite and least favorite enemy in Blood, folks? My favorite is the Phantasm for being such a cool enemy to fight against, and my least favorite is the Bone Eel for being as useless as the Rotfish in Quake.

[deuxsonic]

I hate hellhounds because if you don't kill them practically on sight they'll set you on fire and you can lose a lot of armor and health quickly this way if there's no water to jump into. My favorite would have to be hordes of axe zombies. There's something so satisfying about tossing a bundle of dynamite into the middle of them and the hilarious carnage that results, heads and guts and blood flying everywhere.

[MrFlibble]

MetHy, on 12 March 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

Here are the infos I got

Quote

The zombie will hit you for (the number in brackets is after the load game):
11 hp (36 hp) - Still Kicking
15 hp (27 hp) - Pink On The Inside
18 hp (18 hp) - Lightly Broiled
22 hp (22 hp) - Well Done
26 hp (12 hp) - Extra Crispy

I just checked the shareware v1.11, with the following results:

• skill 1: 11 (36)
  
• skill 2: 15 (27)
  
• skill 3: 18 (18)
  
• skill 4: 22 (15)
  
• skill 5: 26 (12)

So actually there's a quite considerable reduction on skill 4. I loaded each saved game twice to make sure the damage dealt is always the same.

BTW, does anyone know why the game does not show savegame thumbnails in the save/load menus? It's like this feature was planned but at some point they just decided to replace the image with the Monolith logo (or the Blood logo in the earlier versions). Also the menu does not show the skill level of a saved game either.

A while ago I read at TCRF the developers' notes which were found in the alpha. Apparently, the team did not get along well with Ken Silverman, which might explain some of the issues in the engine programming department.

[High Treason]

Least favorite enemy? The continual glitches.

As for the shots in the load menu, I'm sure I have seen them there before and my memory says it was in v1.0. Looking back at that footage though, this appears incorrect. Given how often the menu goes barmy in that version with the dripping blood succumbing to a random HOM effect from time to time, it is small wonder they took it out - it probably never worked reliably. I honestly think that if we ever did see the source code that anyone looking at it would uncover a huge mess, part of me wonders if this is why certain parties appear hell-bent on not letting it get out.

Edit: Now, I can't help wondering if the RoR effect may be the reason the screenshot thing wasn't in the load menu. I don't think those shots are taken from what you actually see on screen (Such as how EDuke32 always uses an 8-Bit image regardless of which renderer you play the game with) and it is entirely possible it would have displayed that wood texture in the shots. Or, perhaps it is related to some of the other trickery they pulled with random sprites and "XSystem" parameters (basically, tags) or maybe even the QAV/smacker textures (SMK, effects like that fire texture).

[leilei]

Let's not forget the brilliant AI.

[MetHy]

Pretty sure that's linked to the room over room. This area doesn't play well because of that, the autoaim will hardly work against enemies under you for instance if you shoot from where the video as taken.

EDuke32, in 2016, isn't doing any better at mixing enemy AI and TROR which should probably give you a hint of the difficulty of the task.

[Daedolon]

leilei, on 16 March 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Let's not forget the brilliant AI.

[Doom64hunter]

MrFlibble, on 16 March 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

A while ago I read at TCRF the developers' notes which were found in the alpha. Apparently, the team did not get along well with Ken Silverman, which might explain some of the issues in the engine programming department.

That's one of the most legitimately interesting things I've seen on TCRF in quite a while, shines a very different image on Ken than most sources do.

[deuxsonic]

Doom64hunter, on 16 March 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

That's one of the most legitimately interesting things I've seen on TCRF in quite a while, shines a very different image on Ken than most sources do.

Wow, what a nightmare it sounds like. It is fascinating to read those notes as I had no idea that there was such... bad Blood...

Daedolon, on 16 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I like how the acolytes still have the gun as part of their sprite, being another recolor of the cultists, yet only ever throw dynamite. Kind of bizzare.

High Treason, on 16 March 2016 - 03:33 AM, said:

Least favorite enemy? The continual glitches.

As for the shots in the load menu, I'm sure I have seen them there before and my memory says it was in v1.0. Looking back at that footage though, this appears incorrect. Given how often the menu goes barmy in that version with the dripping blood succumbing to a random HOM effect from time to time, it is small wonder they took it out - it probably never worked reliably. I honestly think that if we ever did see the source code that anyone looking at it would uncover a huge mess, part of me wonders if this is why certain parties appear hell-bent on not letting it get out.

Edit: Now, I can't help wondering if the RoR effect may be the reason the screenshot thing wasn't in the load menu. I don't think those shots are taken from what you actually see on screen (Such as how EDuke32 always uses an 8-Bit image regardless of which renderer you play the game with) and it is entirely possible it would have displayed that wood texture in the shots. Or, perhaps it is related to some of the other trickery they pulled with random sprites and "XSystem" parameters (basically, tags) or maybe even the QAV/smacker textures (SMK, effects like that fire texture).

Version 1.0 of Blood was an absolute disaster. It was the first game I bought that was basically unplayable out of the box with how unstable and buggy it was. I basically didn't come back to it until v1.11 had already been released, which by that point they had gotten most of the serious problems worked out.

[MusicallyInspired]

Daedolon, on 16 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

Dance! DANCE OR WE ALL DIE!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

[High Treason]

deuxsonic, on 16 March 2016 - 05:29 PM, said:

Version 1.0 of Blood was an absolute disaster. It was the first game I bought that was basically unplayable out of the box with how unstable and buggy it was. I basically didn't come back to it until v1.11 had already been released, which by that point they had gotten most of the serious problems worked out.

V1.21 was a disaster for different reasons. For every thing they fixed they broke something else and thanks to their tweaks to the weaponry the balance was completely busted. The reason I was playing V1.00 there was because I'd already done V1.21 and it went horribly wrong on numerous occasions - actually, V1.00 has always proved more reliable for me outside of occasionally crashing when too many gibs are spawned. V1.21 always made me really lose my temper because instead of outright breaking it would just do retarded crap like that and completely ruin the game and my experience of playing it. Shame.

Doesn't help that every time I play it the hard drive dies within two weeks. No idea why, probably coincidence, but it does make me weary of running it on the bare hardware. The game seems to be more reliable in DOSBox and it somehow feels different, like it literally plays differently.

[PikaCommando]

Have you guys ever seen the infamous Flame Guy during your playthroughs?

[High Treason]

I used to be able to reproduce this bug with innocent's every single time. I always liked chucking dynamite at them and watching them fly through the air and still not die. They usually get stuck on a corner after a while.

[deuxsonic]

Explosives seem to be what kill flame guys for me.

High Treason, on 16 March 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

V1.21 was a disaster for different reasons. For every thing they fixed they broke something else and thanks to their tweaks to the weaponry the balance was completely busted. The reason I was playing V1.00 there was because I'd already done V1.21 and it went horribly wrong on numerous occasions - actually, V1.00 has always proved more reliable for me outside of occasionally crashing when too many gibs are spawned. V1.21 always made me really lose my temper because instead of outright breaking it would just do retarded crap like that and completely ruin the game and my experience of playing it. Shame.

Doesn't help that every time I play it the hard drive dies within two weeks. No idea why, probably coincidence, but it does make me weary of running it on the bare hardware. The game seems to be more reliable in DOSBox and it somehow feels different, like it literally plays differently.

I've encountered that bug too, but there was no innocent stuck in the air; there was just nothing. I've encountered this with different versions of Blood though, along with all the other gameplay bugs. Why did Monolith remove gibbing of Hellhounds (and some other monsters) for the final game?

Interesting that v1.21 was never released as a patch to the original game release but came only with Whole Blood.

What really pissed me off (and this happens in literally every BUILD engine game but most frequently in Blood) was getting instantly killed by a door swinging open. The other games do this as well but with Blood you have to be especially careful to not get crushed by a door. It seems BUILD engine games are renowned for killing the player with parts of the map unintentionally. I've played tons of Duke3D maps where a seemingly innocent wall or corner will crush you instantly for no reason. Even vertical DOOM-style doors can crush you to death on occasion. I can totally believe the things Monolith was saying about Ken Silverman and BUILD.

[High Treason]

The exact same thing with the innocent happened again when I tried live streaming the game once too and I'm not sure I was using 1.21 that time though I seem to think I found things had mysteriously become corrupted. The removal of Hellhound gibbing always irked me, mainly because I used to think it was funny to napalm them and there would just be this foot left that would slide forwards before coming to a stop... Then they nerfed the Napalm Launcher too.

I dunno, I guess V1.21 is like Duke V1.5 (Atomic) compared to V1.3 in that it added new content and needed to be purchased. Duke 1.4 and 1.5 had very few differences, I think it was merely modifications to the CON code, but I am unclear about Blood V1.1x (Can't remember the version number) versus v1.21 differences, I presume they are minimal though.

Pintched by the doors. Indeed, it does seem to happen more in Blood and I remember it happening in that V1.0 playthrough; https://youtu.be/PQo...m5WM4Omc_f&t=59
Then, if you leave it running a minute we get a levitating zombie. Somewhere I had a list of some of the times it had broken in interesting ways and I might try and dig it up for the hell of it. Though there were many smaller things missing like enemies which weren't blocking / hitscan sensitive and bullets went right through them. Heh, just noticed now that parts 11 and 13 are absent from my playlist... Oops.

The worst Kill Wall in Blood comes in E4M3 - https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=147
And while I'm there, it does remind me of an interesting bug the spawns sometimes display - they always use that same tile for some reason - https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=195

Seriously, this game is hilarious.

Edit: Before I call it a day and sleep, here's one of the stranger ones... Where does the second Gill Beast come from? https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=1197 Honestly, I think the game hates me. If you keep watching to when I reload and jump down the bog again I've never seen Gill Beasts move that fast before, I have no idea what was going on. The first thing with the one appearing from thin air actually made me jump but by the time they were seemingly breaking the sound barrier I was past caring.

[Daedolon]

Blood has a tag for swinging doors that you can either set to kill the player or push the player away.

[High Treason]

I remember that, but I can't remember if it was not set correctly or if it was but never worked. Some of those boolean's don't seem to do anything at all, I know the ones for detecting explosions, proximity and sight are damn near useless most - if not all - of the time.

[MrFlibble]

Guys, I don't know how sceptical you are about luciusDXL's project to recreate the game's code by reverse-engineering, but if you have some time to spare, would you mind posting reproducible bugs/glitches in the latest version (I'm assuming luciusDXL works with that version) in the relevant section of the XL Engine forums? I think documenting the bugs in a consistent manner should be beneficial regardless of whether you think the XL Engine project is a positive thing or not.

[MetHy]

Daedolon, on 17 March 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

Blood has a tag for swinging doors that you can either set to kill the player or push the player away.

So does Shadow Warrior, but it's not a 100% accurate science.

However I do believe that, like in DN3D, it all depends on how the door is built. I can not prove it, but I think that in all Build games, there is a "proper" way doors have to be built so they can't kill the player, and there are also ways you shouldn't build a door or it'll kill the player.

It's one of those things that everyone tends to blame on "the engine" that I have a hard time to believe, but I don't know for sure. I mean, do doors share the same code in DN3D/Blood/SW ? They're not hardcoded, are they.

[HulkNukem]

PikaCommando, on 17 March 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Have you guys ever seen the infamous Flame Guy during your playthroughs?

For a second I thought there was some guy on fire running around the Hedge Maze as an easter egg that I never saw. That would be creepy as hell.

[deuxsonic]

High Treason, on 17 March 2016 - 05:25 AM, said:

The exact same thing with the innocent happened again when I tried live streaming the game once too and I'm not sure I was using 1.21 that time though I seem to think I found things had mysteriously become corrupted. The removal of Hellhound gibbing always irked me, mainly because I used to think it was funny to napalm them and there would just be this foot left that would slide forwards before coming to a stop... Then they nerfed the Napalm Launcher too.

I dunno, I guess V1.21 is like Duke V1.5 (Atomic) compared to V1.3 in that it added new content and needed to be purchased. Duke 1.4 and 1.5 had very few differences, I think it was merely modifications to the CON code, but I am unclear about Blood V1.1x (Can't remember the version number) versus v1.21 differences, I presume they are minimal though.

Pintched by the doors. Indeed, it does seem to happen more in Blood and I remember it happening in that V1.0 playthrough; https://youtu.be/PQo...m5WM4Omc_f&t=59
Then, if you leave it running a minute we get a levitating zombie. Somewhere I had a list of some of the times it had broken in interesting ways and I might try and dig it up for the hell of it. Though there were many smaller things missing like enemies which weren't blocking / hitscan sensitive and bullets went right through them. Heh, just noticed now that parts 11 and 13 are absent from my playlist... Oops.

The worst Kill Wall in Blood comes in E4M3 - https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=147
And while I'm there, it does remind me of an interesting bug the spawns sometimes display - they always use that same tile for some reason - https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=195

Seriously, this game is hilarious.

Edit: Before I call it a day and sleep, here's one of the stranger ones... Where does the second Gill Beast come from? https://youtu.be/tC27GKA6_6Q?t=1197 Honestly, I think the game hates me. If you keep watching to when I reload and jump down the bog again I've never seen Gill Beasts move that fast before, I have no idea what was going on. The first thing with the one appearing from thin air actually made me jump but by the time they were seemingly breaking the sound barrier I was past caring.

V1.21 actually has some huge differences from V1.11. It included the 5th episode (actually #6 as #5 is for bloodbath), introduced new enemies, and made a bunch of changes to weapon functionality (alt-fires for the napalm launcher and life leech, akimbo for the tesla gun) as well as more subtle changes.

That is part of the humor I think is from how wonky things act at times -- in particular when something happens to axe zombies like seeing them flying. Doors are pretty deadly in Blood though. I've encountered this kind of nonsense in every game with the engine. Killer doors, killer walls, and you can get it to happen in basically any official map or user map so I doubt it's merely a design problem but rather an engine problem since it is so widespread and the BUILD engine is known for being a mess of hacks. I mean Doom had crushing sectors but that didn't mean that any moving sector could potentially kill you. It's enraging when it happens because you can be the best player ever and "oh the door closed, I'm dead and have to start over." There's one map in particular, I think it E4L3 as well where you have to go underwater towards the end of the level, but trying to go back requires a lot of patience and trying over and over and over because it's as if there's an invisible wall there. The first time I played the game I thought that it was intentional, that you weren't supposed to be able to backtrack.

The flame guy bug I've run into many many times. I've found I can generally kill them with the splash damage of explosives but anything else doesn't kill them. I do distinctly remember the kill wall in your video. The invisible wall bug is actually very close to that in the same map. I'll have to go through again and see if sprites change for me like they're doing for you. Maybe I just don't notice.

[Mark]

MetHy, on 17 March 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

So does Shadow Warrior, but it's not a 100% accurate science.

However I do believe that, like in DN3D, it all depends on how the door is built. I can not prove it, but I think that in all Build games, there is a "proper" way doors have to be built so they can't kill the player, and there are also ways you shouldn't build a door or it'll kill the player.

It's one of those things that everyone tends to blame on "the engine" that I have a hard time to believe, but I don't know for sure. I mean, do doors share the same code in DN3D/Blood/SW ? They're not hardcoded, are they.

I seem to remember that if you slow down the door opening speed they don't crush or kill like when they open at full speed.

[High Treason]

One thing common to Build games - jumping on slopes is unreliable, if you hit forward just before hitting jump the player often won't jump.

As for the spider spawner thing, I have a map I made in the 1990s where it is reproducible via a switch. I might have tagged it wrong or something, not sure, but I know I tried to fix it for ages before I built the "death machine" a few rooms away and then just played with that forever, never completing the map... That machine crashes the damn game.

Anyway, here;  MALL2C.zip (34.4K)
Number of downloads: 40

To cause the bug you need to get in the elevator (Easy to find because the starting layout is a ripoff of Mall of the Dead) and ride it to the upper floor. One of the switches will trigger a spawn outside the door, so if you open the door you can hit the switch and watch the spiders appear. They will magically change to other enemies when you approach them. Mall4.MAP is also included for the lulz, partly because of that broken ROR attempt in the large empty room. It is an older version of the map so the spider bug isn't there yet. (Edit: I should add that this all refers to V1.0, it might not behave the same in V1.21).

The crush tag has to be TURNED ON manually! I checked that door I got pinched (Pintched) by in E3M1 and it is off, so whatever, something is broken and it probably is the engine because Duke does the same thing. Weird that the door is set to "Underwater" though, I wonder what that's about? Perhaps a slip of the space bar or something changed in the map or the XSystem.
 mapedit_001.png (5.55K)
Number of downloads: 92




I have a few of my old Blood maps left, might put some of them in the "Unfinished Crap" thread for a laugh, they're pretty awful.

[MetHy]

deuxsonic, on 17 March 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

the BUILD engine is known for being a mess of hacks. I mean Doom had crushing sectors but that didn't mean that any moving sector could potentially kill you.

If Build had as little features as Doom, I'm sure it would be just as solid.

[MetHy]

So on the reveal that the load-game difficulty glitch also influences skill4, I've decided to play replay the entire game on skill4, every level pitchfork start, since I thought I did but only using loaded games in most levels. Only way to do that then is to use a cheat to warp to every map every time you relaunch the game, but that's fine.

It's pretty hard honestly, cultists being the main issue of course, but I'm having tons of fun. In Blood, if you want to make it out pitchfork that on skill4, you need knowledge of at least some secrets in many levels. I think that is fine though, because the player who'd do pitchfork start skill4 most likely already knows tons of secrets, besides many secrets are super obvious anyway.

E1M5 was the hardest so far, the start of that level is insane on pitchfork start, even on skill3.

If a sourceport is ever made, it should obviously fix this glitch, but imo it should also have a feature so you can turn off the fix. I thought that, skill4 with the glitch, was a nice middle ground, a difficulty that's in between skill 3 and 4, since there ARE more enemies than on skill3.

[MajorTom 2417]

My attempt at Caleb's voice, uploaded last year. I NEED to do another one like this....

....and for anyone wondering, I think Blood is just as awesome as Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior. I even tried to do a Let's Play of Cryptic Passage last year (operative word being "tried"....my camera sucked, the batteries kept dying and the footage was damn near unusable).

[PikaCommando]

Major Tom, on 24 March 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

My attempt at Caleb's voice, uploaded last year. I NEED to do another one like this....

....and for anyone wondering, I think Blood is just as awesome as Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior. I even tried to do a Let's Play of Cryptic Passage last year (operative word being "tried"....my camera sucked, the batteries kept dying and the footage was damn near unusable).

Why not record with Fraps?