[Forge]

NightFright, on 28 January 2019 - 08:32 AM, said:

Is it on 3DR already? It says update 4 and files are from Jan 25.

It only took them 3 days to post the file after they received it?

Yeah. I don't trust it either.

[Hendricks266]

thricecursed, on 28 January 2019 - 07:35 AM, said:

Really good stuff in terms of level design and gameplay, but I gotta say it's a lot less "edgy" than the other Build games. It somehow has less personality and the protagonist's voice doesn't really sell me on her character. Her lines are a bit cringy. I mean, humor was a big part of Blood, Duke, SW, etc, and it worked better in those games. Maybe there's more of a storyline in IM?

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

[DavoX]

It's on 3DR and GOG.

[axl]

Hendricks266, on 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

Some people are also too harsh. You can't compare a "new" character with some classic game characters. That is just unfair. I mean Caleb is a cult classic and Duke is a gaming icon...

So yeah, she's not the most awesome character ever (although I think some of the new lines are quite good, like "gotta keep em seperated"), but who really cares ? The main thing is the gameplay and the levels. And those appear to be rock solid.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Hendricks266, on 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

I think it's because I have no idea who the character is, where she comes from and what kind of issues she deals with. I mean, in NOLF (one of my favorite games) you saw that Cate Archer was fighting against sexism and constantly had to prove her worth in her organization, but she did it without turning into a man. She retained her femininity while still being capable in her own unique way. Shell seems rather void of substance at this point, I don't know how else to put it. Kind of blank and asexual, if that makes sense. There needs to be more conflict in her character, a tragedy in her past maybe? Something to form an emotional connection.

[Forge]

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.
I don't hate it. I don't love it. I ignore it after awhile, but, like scenery, I'd definitely notice if it were missing.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

[Aristotle Gumball]

Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

Yeah, agreed with that. It sounds like she's not really invested in what's going on or sees it like a video game. Just shootin' some bad guys! Woopdedoo.

Ditto on cutscenes, or just anything. Doomguy might not make sense but he's your classic silent protagonist. You can write your own story in your mind. But you can't have something that's half way. I mean, the first time I heard Caleb yell "Show yourself!" after finding Ophelia I nearly crapped my pants. It actually had some emotional weight to it. This feels like it's trying to be half serious, half joking, so it's neither here nor there.

PS. I too care more about the overall design and feel of the gameplay itself, but newer audiences and especially those unacquainted with oldschool shooters will really notice the details.

[DavoX]

Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

I don't mind, but here's the problem with Shelly, as I see it.
All her lines have the same general inflection. After awhile it just becomes a flat, interchangeable, background sound. I listen to it once or twice, then I tune it out.
I don't hate it. I don't love it. I ignore it after awhile, but, like scenery, I'd definitely notice if it were missing.

If you want some depth, or whatever, start and end episodes with short cutscenes (that can be skipped by those that only care about playing the game)

In that sense the line "bowling bomb likes you!" has become my favourite, as its really different from all the others.

[Jblade]

I like her VA and her lines; the context sensitive lines about each weapon and armor gives her a bit of personality...more gameplay related things like that would be neat (maybe even have her cuss if she's reloading whilst taking fire)

Quote

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

It's definitely nostalgia, and I remember seeing the 'suggestions' for DK dialogue as well. They were atrocious. IM has definitely got its own feel now that it doesn't need comparing to the build brothers trilogy.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really like Shelly's voice. I actually found in my initial playthroughs that she didn't talk as much as I was kind of wanting her to. I guess that's good in that it's not overdone, but at the time I was wanting more.

[Forge]

I think her base voice is fine. Most of the sayings and quotes are fine. It's not about liking or disliking her voice - it's about the variety of emphasis in her lines. There are very few that stand out, one from another.
In normy speak - they mostly sound the same. I have pretty bad tinnitus, so that makes it even worse.

It makes me think Shelly is the android, she's actually killing humans, and this is some weird twisted-perspective game.

[TerminX]

thricecursed, on 28 January 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yeah, agreed with that. It sounds like she's not really invested in what's going on or sees it like a video game. Just shootin' some bad guys! Woopdedoo.

I think you can say the same for Duke3D and SW, honestly. I always found not taking things 100% seriously to be a big part of the personalities of those characters. Shelly is modeled after them to an extent.

Quote

Doomguy might not make sense but he's your classic silent protagonist. You can write your own story in your mind.

Yeah, but Doom came out when PC speaker sound effects were still a thing. Silent protagonists were all you got if stopping the game for the player to read things wasn't an option.

Anyway, I do appreciate everyone's feedback, positive and negative, as I tend to end up responsible for writing the lines and directing the VA sessions.

Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

I think her base voice is fine. Most of the sayings and quotes are fine. It's not about liking or disliking her voice - it's about the variety of emphasis in her lines. There are very few that stand out, one from another.
In normy speak - they mostly sound the same. I have pretty bad tinnitus, so that makes it even worse.

It makes me think Shelly is the android, she's actually killing humans, and this is some weird twisted-perspective game.

Hmm... all of the one-off situational lines tend to be spoken differently than the weapon pickup lines, which tend to be spoken differently than the lines said during kills. What more of a difference were you looking for? I'm open to suggestions despite them already sounding different to me.

[Danukem]

Saying that voice acting is "cringe" or "cringey" is kind of useless as a criticism, because it's so nonspecific. I remember being a little annoyed at a youtube comment on a different Shelly that we have in Alien Armageddon, saying that the VA was "cringe". Hard to tell if it's a criticism of the voice itself, the lines, or both. All you can do is go back and try to make it better, I guess. People expect a lot from their video game protagonists these days.

[NNC]

Doomguy has the best personality of all. Sure, he doesn't talk, but his grunts and facial expressions are all timeless, and add lots of personality you can relate yourself to.

If I want to improve Shelly somehow, then I would consider removing the copycat stuff from other games. I mean, we don't need Shelly to mimic the Doomguy's facial expressions (she even has a glaring eye when god mode is on). We don't need her to kick heads like Caleb. We don't need her to say "Fire in a hole asshole", what is a traditional Duke speech.

It's a bit like New Super Mario Bros games, when they wanted to grab everything from the previous classics and threw them in the modern games, including flagpoles of SMB, airships from SMB3, red coins from Yoshi's Island and so on. The original games never copied each other, they all owned their trademark identities.

Shelly's personality and charisma is just fine. But I would like some very Shelly gameplay elements that weren't present in other games. Like Blood has a different set of keys for example, not colour based. SW has that running gags with anime girls. Duke had his own babes. Shelly should run into a totally different stuff in his journey, something that aren't there in the original game. For example using special toilets as checkpoints. Or if that is not PC enough, something else.

Bowling bomb so far is the best Shelly identity. It should be a running gag for example. Many different types of bowling adventures.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Trooper Dan, on 28 January 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

Saying that voice acting is "cringe" or "cringey" is kind of useless as a criticism, because it's so nonspecific.

Mate, I got pretty specific if you read the rest of the post(s). It's just my subjective opinion, but do you honestly want to tell me that Shelly can stand right next to Duke, Caleb or even Lo Wang? I get we're in a different era, but it just doesn't work as well as it could. And there's no reason why it can't. I'd even get a third party (someone really funny and/or good at writing) to take a look at some of the lines. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that shit matters. If so, I guess I'll shut up.

@TerminX - you know I didn't mean that I would've wanted Duke to be 100% serious or something. I get what you're going for, but it sounds like you're pulling punches for fear of upsetting people. Either go all the way or not at all, you know? Just don't keep it so PG-13. I'll of course still play the full game once it comes out. Maybe the plot is more interesting than what I've seen thus far and it'll all make sense in the end.

[Danukem]

thricecursed, on 28 January 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

Mate, I got pretty specific if you read the rest of the post(s). It's just my subjective opinion, but do you honestly want to tell me that Shelly can stand right next to Duke, Caleb or even Lo Wang? I get we're in a different era, but it just doesn't work as well as it could. A

What you said was "It [IM] somehow has less personality and the protagonist's voice doesn't really sell me on her character. Her lines are a bit cringy. I mean, humor was a big part of Blood, Duke, SW, etc, and it worked better in those games."

So yeah, to be fair you didn't just say that her lines are a bit cringy. You also said that her voice doesn't sell you on her character and that the humor didn't work as well as in old Build games. That's still pretty nonspecific, but ok, I'm not trying to get into an argument with you. My post was actually about the term "cringe" in general, and it specifically referred to a youtube comment as an example, not your comment in particular.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Trooper Dan, on 28 January 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

You also said that her voice doesn't sell you on her character and that the humor didn't work as well as in old Build games.

Forge did a good job elaborating on the voice issue. As for the humor, I think partly it may be a problem of not working in the same office. A lot of funny stuff happens when you're with other guys in close proximity for long periods of time (wink wink). Someone already touched on memes which are rather transient and most people won't remember in 10 years time. My advice would be to try and recognize what are the most influential and highly regarded entertainment products of the era and use those for inspiration, and less internet culture. Deadpool (the first film) is good for modern "funny dialog" that isn't overly offensive to any particular group.

"My post was actually about the term "cringe" in general, and it specifically referred to a youtube comment as an example, not your comment in particular."

Fair enough.

[Zaxx]

Hendricks266, on 28 January 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

People on the Steam forums are also criticizing her voice and character but don't provide any useful suggestions of substance, only "make it more like Duke, Lo Wang, Caleb, even Doomguy (??)". I can't help but think it's nostalgia goggles, or bias against a female protagonist, or something else entirely. I'm reminded of when people wanted Tensi from DK to say stuff like "sucky sucky" as a line. Perhaps it is the fact that we have only released vertical slices of gameplay, not our actual campaign and plot.

I think that's part of it but honestly based on the stuff we've heard so far I think Valerie is good but not great at delivering one-liners. The thing is that when Duke or Caleb says something / laughs at stuff you believe that they enjoy the carnage and that they feel the need to express how much they love the job but in the case of Shelly I think there is a slight disconnect there. She sound enthusiastic but it's like she's not feeling it exactly, she should be just a bit more sinister in her delivery. For example "Dance, fuckers, dance!" is great but that last "dance" should be emphasized a bit more so that it feels just a bit sinister, you know, that there is a dark side to Shelly that loves dark humor.

[Forge]

Zaxx, on 28 January 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

For example "Dance, fuckers, dance!" is great but that last "dance" should be emphasized a bit more so that it feels just a bit sinister, you know, that there is a dark side to Shelly that loves dark humor.

^this
a lot of her lines have even inflection on every word. There's little emphasis, (or just an even emphasis), thus it elicits little emotional response, or attention grabbing.
Monotone isn't the right word, but the result is similar.

Shelly picks up a weapon:
"Ha ha. Nice"
Shelly finds an un-bruised tomato at the grocery store:
"Ha ha. Nice"

[MusicallyInspired]

Forge, on 28 January 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

I think her base voice is fine. Most of the sayings and quotes are fine. It's not about liking or disliking her voice - it's about the variety of emphasis in her lines. There are very few that stand out, one from another.
In normy speak - they mostly sound the same. I have pretty bad tinnitus, so that makes it even worse.

It makes me think Shelly is the android, she's actually killing humans, and this is some weird twisted-perspective game.

Funny, I never felt that way at all. I thought she had the perfect amount of inflection and energy.

[MusicallyInspired]

What the...?? I just checked earlier today and Update 4.1 was available on GOG. Now that I'm home I check and it says it only has Update 2. And it's also renamed to "Ion Maiden DEMO" and it's marked as "NEW" in my game library. Changelog says last update was April 2018.

Guess I should have downloaded it when I had the chance.

[Forge]

MusicallyInspired, on 28 January 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

What the...?? I just checked earlier today and Update 4.1 was available on GOG. Now that I'm home I check and it says it only has Update 2. And it's also renamed to "Ion Maiden DEMO" and it's marked as "NEW" in my game library. Changelog says last update was April 2018.

Guess I should have downloaded it when I had the chance.

The update patch 4 is still posted at 3DR.
I don't know why gog would pull it off their shelf.

[TerminX]

Update 4.1 should be available on GOG for customers who have purchased the game... please let me know if it isn't! We've been having a lot of trouble with GOG concerning this update today.

Anyone who was a purchaser of the deluxe edition of Bombshell won't get anything past update 2 as we're way past the obligation of giving access to a beta version at this point.

[Forge]

ya'll just can't catch a break with these third-party distributors.
They'd fuck up a wet dream.

[Hank]

[dumb questions]
The Blast Accelerator chip, except for the bowling alley, how do you effectively use it? Can this item be made to be used only by selecting it?

The Bow. One shot in the head kills a red enemy, but in turn, it takes multiple shots to kill me. Is that the intent?

Last dumb question: I know what a truth table is, but still have not figured out how to use Loverboy with Alt Fire. I see the animation, left arm, and that's it.
[/dumb questions]

[Mark]

All I had to go by was an early version YouTube playthru video. I found most of Shelly's lines OK. There were a few that I would have prefered to have a little emphasis on a word or 2 like Forge mentioned. A minor thing but one example was when she said " I don't think that's covered in the warranty." I think an emphasis should have been put on the word "that's" instead of the flat way the sentence was voiced. "That's" meaning the explosion and hole in the wall she just made. There were 2 more but part of the voice clip was overpowered by gun fire so I couldn't hear the whole thing so I won't point them out as examples. From what little I've heard I'm satisfied with her VA.

[MusicallyInspired]

I must have accidentally gotten access to update 4.1 temporarily when I shouldn't have then. I do have the bonus from the Bombshell Deluxe package. I haven't yet dropped money on Ion Maiden as I've been hoping to wait until a cheaper version of the box without most of the extras became available.

[Forge]

Probably why they pulled it site wide. They didn't differentiate who was allowed to have it & ended up making it available to everyone.

[John Brown]

For the fellow GOG owners, Ion Maiden is now its own game in your library, separate from the preview build (now renamed Ion Maiden - DEMO). The one that does not say "DEMO", that is the one with the 4.1 patch. I saw someone else post on the GOG forum (deserted wasteland it is) that the "DEMO" version has to be uninstalled, for the main version to install properly. I have done that, and 4.1 works fine for me on GOG, I just replayed the existing episode on Maximum Violence difficulty and it was glorious.

Now, to do the new level.

[Zaxx]

TerminX, on 28 January 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:

Anyone who was a purchaser of the deluxe edition of Bombshell won't get anything past update 2 as we're way past the obligation of giving access to a beta version at this point.

I can imagine you guys getting some flak for that decision. Wouldn't it be worth it to include that one map for Bombshell Deluxe buyers just to avoid that?