[TheDragonLiner]

"Spawn in your face", that's what true ninjas do ^_-

I agree with you that the original Duke should've had the same effect, it really helps you see in dark places whereas Duke's acts more like a Heat Vision than a true NIGHT vision. In AMC it also helps you see farther than you normally should without touching the "visibility" setting

[Jblade]

Cheers for the feedback MetHy, there are areas that do need more in-depth tweaking and stuff (Chisland seems to be a mixed bag as well as a later Mars level, me and the guys will brainstorm a bit to see if we can make it a bit more enjoyable overall) The mission screen also throws people off a bit, there is a help topic but I might force that to appear the first time the screen is booted up so people can't miss it.

Glad you liked Life Tower, not sure if you remember Survival but it was taken and recycled from that since I felt it would fit the TC quite well. I'd say it's definitely closer to vanilla SW than the previous maps...also the bike seems to be a mixed blessing for some - I do love it but I'll see if I can add a shorter way for people who prefer to go on foot. The shortcut to the hovercraft bay is intentional btw, I wanted to experiment a bit with non-linearity. It's something I want to try a bit more in the future.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts/criticisms of the rest (just some advice though, Jungle base is a really difficult level fairly similar to Oblivion so if you disliked that, it's an optional mission that you don't need to take to proceed)

[MetHy]

I'm in Zeta base and i'm constantly low on supplies (both ammo/weapons and health) even though i'm playing conservation and using the sword for everything suited for it. I keep dying and it's a pain, especially since i'm reaching a point with several purple cultists.

This level is a mixed bag for me. It mixes things (textures, enemies, etc) from tons of games and I don't feel like everything fits together. That's why I liked the Life Tower better, even if it's using stuff from various games, everything fit together, at a smaller dose it can work.

Edit : no a single bullet left, no armor, tons of enemies, 20hp, more locked doors than every Silent Hill games combined, hanging to the katana while thanking the health-regen that gets me back to 20hp every time... and the game trolling me with an "ARMORY" sign above yet another locked door. Well I guess I should consider myself lucky, last time I found an armory it spawned more enemies than it was worth anyways.

[Rhaisher]

MetHy, on 12 July 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm in Zeta base and i'm constantly low on supplies (both ammo/weapons and health) even though i'm playing conservation and using the sword for everything suited for it. I keep dying and it's a pain, especially since i'm reaching a point with several purple cultists.

This level is a mixed bag for me. It mixes things (textures, enemies, etc) from tons of games and I don't feel like everything fits together. That's why I liked the Life Tower better, even if it's using stuff from various games, everything fit together, at a smaller dose it can work.

Edit : no a single bullet left, no armor, tons of enemies, 20hp, more locked doors than every Silent Hill games combined, hanging to the katana while thanking the health-regen that gets me back to 20hp every time... and the game trolling me with an "ARMORY" sign above yet another locked door. Well I guess I should consider myself lucky, last time I found an armory it spawned more enemies than it was worth anyways.

Spoiler

There are two armories, and both can be opened (they're secret areas).

One of them has a 'fenced-window' that can be shot through. So shoot the switch behind it in order to open the door.

The other one (there should be a broken switch close by) is a little more tricky to open (and you'll need explosives). There is a 'cracked gate' close to it (the crack is hard to find, it's tiny), blow it and you'll reach an area with a toolbox and (surprise) more enemies. Once you get the toolbox, get back to the broken switch, fix it and open the door.

I hope this info will make your playthrough of Zeta Base more pleasant.

[Jblade]

Zeta base is a huge level, I didn't explain this feature which is my bad but there is a indicator for a mission's length difficulty level on the mission select box, the squares to the lower right of the information box. 4 red squares means a long/difficult mission - Zeta base IS optional so if you're getting really frustrated I'd suggest maybe aborting the mission via the PDU and giving it another try later (with some more upgrades perhaps or a different character)

[MetHy]

i've found some supplies now; but now that i'm fine with that, something else is here to take the fun away. Those semi invisble ghosts that fuck up your vision, one of them is free roaming around and no matter where I go he finds me and rapes me within a couple of second without me being even able to splot it; plus nothing seems to work to kill it. How do you get rid of it? Seriously, it's like this level was designed to be unfun.

[Paul B]

MetHy, on 13 July 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

i've found some supplies now; but now that i'm fine with that, something else is here to take the fun away. Those semi invisble ghosts that fuck up your vision, one of them is free roaming around and no matter where I go he finds me and rapes me within a couple of second without me being even able to splot it; plus nothing seems to work to kill it. How do you get rid of it? Seriously, it's like this level was designed to be unfun.

Isn't a shortage of health & ammo and being raped by an onslaught of AI the new game play style? =) These maps are built around keeping up with Mikko 's skill level. There only needs to be one skill level: "Mikko incarnate". To hell with everyone else. =)

[MetHy]

Okay I managed to find the yellow card and ran the fuck out of there to the upper level where the yellow key slot was. There was no way I could have beat the 2 bosses near the yellow key; not with the shortage of health and especially not with an invicible invisible ghost fucking me over out of nowhere every 10 seconds, and this no matter which way I go.

When I say I managed to get the hell out of there I mean after about 30 deaths trying to kill the bosses.

Then I managed to run for the door that yellow key opens; only to be awarded by another big "fuck you" right in my face : pick up the grenade launcher and you're suddenly sourounded by 3 or 4 DN3D-drones, yes the ones that explode right in your face and which at that moment spawn only a couple feet next to you.

If you get lucky enough to go through those drones you're still sourounded by a tons of strong fuckers of all kind. I managed to kill those after about 20 more deaths and finally advance through the tunnel.

I thought the end was near, but nope. At the end of a long slope awaits what look like another boss; throwing non-stop rockets at me, some of which are remote-controlled. At this point I'm armed (at last), so I thought I had a chance to get him, but with nothing to take cover in a long tunnel, and with 40 hp, I may avoid 2 or 3 rockets, but the next one will always have me. He throws so many of them.

After 15 more deaths I lured him down the slope, where I had a bit of cover, and he somehow went through a window and was stuck inside a small adjacent room for a brief moment - this was my chance. I ran as fast as I could to the end of the tunnel while hearing the sound of exploding rockets in my back, hoping for a level end... only to see a giant room with inside more aliens and what seems to be ANOTHER boss.

Jesus christ, does this ever end?! I'm sorry but this level has been an awful experience since the start and it only gets worse and worse every new area. I understand what this level is trying to achieve, and it could have been good, but not with this heavy balancing issue and not with the constant "fuck you" respawns (low on health -> step on a 10hp refill item -> spawns 10 enemies all around you) and unfair enemies like that damn ghost.

[TheDragonLiner]

The only thing I don't like about that map is its abusive length and surely first time I played I got a bad souvenir BUT know that when you'll have a more optimized equipment set a bit of experience on it then it becomes more agreeable but I agree that the length is still too much

[MetHy]

I think I was getting near the end, but I decided to abort and went for another mission instead.

[TheDragonLiner]

After you used the Yellow keycard you indeed get near the end, In the section with the Boss from Doom Disco is an elevator that leads to an area with a lot of doors locked with keycards that don't exist except for one which is the very last ^_-

[Jblade]

To be honest I was expecting feedback like this for the map but most people seemed to like it - of course I see it as an aquired taste and can understand your criticism of the map completely. It's definitly not for everyone but that's why I made it optional rather than forced into the mod's main campaign. I'd say your taste swings towards the more focused experience like Life Tower rather than the open ended stuff (The maps vary between the two styles, hopefully you have a better time with the later maps)

Also I've said it before but since you didn't like Zeta base, I would skip the Jungle base as well. This is kinda weird but I did have a feeling you wouldn't like this episode as much since I think you prefer more polished and tight level design and mechanics whereas we spread ourselves wide and were fairly ambitious with all kinds of stuff in this episode (Some parts to it's detriment, although I'm hoping to fix as much as possible for the next big patch or version) At the least I do appreciate you not holding back on the criticism.

[MetHy]

I just played a mission that started in some snowy mountains with cultists and ended up in an underground lab. i'm sorry I don't remember the name but you see what I mean I'm sure.
I enjoyed that mission quite a lot, rather solid with nice level design, environments and fights.

Although I was kinda low on ammo at the start, you really need to check every path at the start and make sure to grab every supply before going further. I should also probably make sure I get the best gear to start with and perhaps I should try to see if some other characters are better (except from a mission I played as Geoffrey, I played everything else with James)
However i wouldn't really call that small lack of ammo at the start of the map an issue. It's just a different way to go at it, but once you know what to expect it's fine. Ammo conservation and weapon management is a nice aspect of the game (unless it gets really stingy like in zeta base); like how you need to conserve flechete rounds for enemies with armor.
Talking about that, I feel it's a little weird though, how those flechetes do more dmg to those enemies than explosives, and also how flechettes are a very important type of ammo even though they don't feel that strong when you use them. But it does add an extra interest to ammo management that I enjoy.

Talking about enemies that can only get hit by a certain type of ammo; for the boss of that mission (the big magician taken from Hexen I think?) I had JUST enough of "laser" and "plasma" type ammo to kill him and his minions, and that after I made sure I had the "laser-type slot#1 weapon that look like it's from Terminator Future Shock" from the next room that can be missed because that room is not accessible when the bossfight start.
Actually, the boss died because the last hit was a projectile of its own that bounced back on him and I was completely out of ammo types that can hit him. So it was JUST fine and I wonder how it'd go on the hardest difficulty....

I should have probably played on normal difficulty rather than expert; but playing on "hard" is usually fine for me in FPS, whether they're old or new ones.

EDIT :

BTW i have to report another glitch regarding the ammo type change with the shotgun. Near the end of this mission, when i'd open the submenu to change ammo type, sometimes pressing the key told for ammo type 1 would give me ammo type 2 and viceversa. Then the colours of the ammo in the hub would be mixed ("Mag" and "ammo" would show a different colour); and then when i was starting to near the end of the mag i'd get this visual glitch (see pic), which would also prevent me from shooting, so i had to switch ammo type forth and back, reload, and then i could shoot again; only to have to glitch trigger 2 or 3 shots later (as long as i was still nearing the end of the mag)

http://s101.photobuc...sr5axp.png.html

[TheDragonLiner]

The Shotgun glitch I have already reported it TWICE, nice to see I'm not the only one although it never happened to me while changing ammo type but still ...

BTW You seem to have missed the secret level ^_-

[Jblade]

About the boss, you can actually hurt him with ANY weapon when he's charging a magic attack - I'll probably do the same with the normal sorcerers so if you have silver ammo and stuff you can hurt them when they're moving but if not you can still damage them, but at a risk to yourself.

That was Loke's map btw, I'm sure he appreciates the feedback

[Mister Sinister]

MetHy, on 13 July 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

I'm sorry but this level has been an awful experience since the start and it only gets worse and worse every new area. I understand what this level is trying to achieve, and it could have been good, but not with this heavy balancing issue and not with the constant "fuck you" respawns (low on health -> step on a 10hp refill item -> spawns 10 enemies all around you) and unfair enemies like that damn ghost.

Zeta Base is indeed too long and I don't like the out-of-place monster choices, but it's cool. Lot's of interesting stuff to find.
I don't know about any other characters, but it was a cakewalk on expert when I played as Sang. Grab the katana at the beginning and bring some carnage upon monsters: it kills in 2-3 hits most of them; hitscanners hit you 30% of the time, the melee don't stand a chance. Really, I was actually surprised how easy this level was for me. The armor regen spell makes it even easier: there's constant supply of pistol ammo which means almost infinite armor.

[MetHy]

Damn I hadn't realized you could shoot the boss with regular ammo. I saw the shield it triggered and thought it'd be like the ghost from Zeta base.

I have some question before continuing btw :

- How does budget increase? does it depend on what you find on a level or how well you perform?
- How does research level increase?
- How do you equip a specialty weapon? When I go into the "weapon select" screen in the base, I have two in the list, the KSG-12 and the UMP45 but clicking on either doesn't do anything, no matter the character. NVM i seem to understand that you find them in the levels after selecting them.

Edit : I had a budget of 13k, didn't buy anything thinking i'd save up to upgrade a weapon, played a mission (the one that was pretty much a DN3D lvl, with submarine at the end), and back at the base my budget is now 6... is that normal?

[Jblade]

Quote

- How does budget increase? does it depend on what you find on a level or how well you perform?

Basically it increases by finishing a mission; you get 1k budget per 30 enemies killed (but I've changed that to 1k per 15 enemies killed for the next patch) and you can also sometimes find cash located around levels to add to the budget as well (Big Trouble in China has some money in it for example) If you've activated the EDF missions (via the EDF place in the New LA moon base) you can play through a few of them to bolster the money you get.

Quote

- How does research level increase?

via rescuing scientists - there's a couple in a later level Energeia in EP2, otherwise they're located in EP1 (Some in Megabase, some accessed through a time portal in Dis Base so you'd have to play as me, and a few more in The Snow base)

Quote

NVM i seem to understand that you find them in the levels after selecting them

Yeah they're replacements for a character's default weapon, so it replaces it in all instances of the game if you've got it selected

Quote

Edit : I had a budget of 13k, didn't buy anything thinking i'd save up to upgrade a weapon, played a mission (the one that was pretty much a DN3D lvl, with submarine at the end), and back at the base my budget is now 6... is that normal?

It shouldn't do...but due to my inexperience back when I coded it the budget is saved in the Eduke32 config file (so if you save and load frequently it'll keep re-adding or taking from it) - if it happens again you can open up the config file and change the budget in that to what it should be. Hopefully you won't get the same problem again.

[MetHy]

Sorry but I seem to be stuck in the Ghost Ship mission near the start of the map. I'm to the point where cells opened up, a few enemies spawned... but I don't know where to go, everything seems to be locked.

Also, the only ep2 missions available to me at the moment are Ghost Ship, Jungle Base and Zeta base. I just did a small train mission on some other planet. Aren't these 3 levels optional? So how do I trigger the rest of the main missions ? Do I have to replay ep1 missions (like Megabase) ?

[Micky C]

You need to kick-slide under the malfunctioning doors. Either that or use the shrinker temp weapon to shrink yourself.

[Jblade]

Ghost ship isn't optional (optional missions are indicated by a diamond shape on the mission map, mandatory ones are squares)

Also to pre-empt you if you get stuck on the next map, you can find a ladder up to deck two in the engine room (I need to add signage to the map heh heh)

[MetHy]

Honestly I hadn't even realize that one door you have to slide under was slightly open. I also didn't remember sliding could make you "smaller" than crouching, although now I seem to remember something about that in the tutorial map.

Jblade, on 14 July 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

Ghost ship isn't optional (optional missions are indicated by a diamond shape on the mission map, mandatory ones are squares)

Also to pre-empt you if you get stuck on the next map, you can find a ladder up to deck two in the engine room (I need to add signage to the map heh heh)

You mean in the aircraft? http://i101.photobuc...zpsirxvvkov.png
That's where I'm stuck atm. I've checked every room 5 times and didn't see a thing.

edit : finally found where to go. I honestly hadn't notice the broken window in the command room. I must have checked every room 6 or 7 times

[Jblade]

Yeah that's been a common issue, I think I might change it so there's an explosion or something to draw the player's attention to that bit.

[MetHy]

Jblade, on 14 July 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yeah that's been a common issue, I think I might change it so there's an explosion or something to draw the player's attention to that bit.

Maybe a highlight on the automap could help?
Then again at first I was misleaded by the "dynamite" sign on the automap. At the beginning of the map when I could only access the walkway beneath the aircraft and the first deck with the command room, the dynamite sign was already shown on the automap, it's for the upper levels, but at that moment it was there already pointing at a void space near the walkway.


I just beat the level. Overall I'd say it was good, but rough on the edges. The concept and overall level design is amazing and quite unseen in Build, in a sense it's like Red4 except in the air, MUCH bigger, and with TROR.

I admire the ambitious concept behind the map itself and the fact that it was pulled off, but like I said I feel it's rough on the edges and that prevents it from being the masterpiece it could have been. Progression could have been made more clear somehow. Also some areas don't look as good as the others, and I don't think ever texture or sprite use fit with one another, but you do with what you have, what you can, and I understand that; if you were to create yourself your own perfect texture set for each map you might as well make this a commercial game .

Also I had no idea what the hell was going on with the end boss. The concept was great, too, but I was pretty clueless as to what was going on with all the cannons. Was the big cannon connected to all 4 smaller cannons or where those just extra? did I have to do something to be able to trigger another main cannon shot or was I only supposed to wait between 2 shots?
Then at the end 2 Baron of Hell varation spawned but during the fight the level ended for some reasons (small cannons finishing the boss??) while those barons were still alive and making hell of a rukus during the end cutscene.

In any case that was a very memorable map, maybe the most memorable so far.

[Jblade]

The 4 pulse cannons are just extras that deal some minor damage to the boss - in case the player forgets to teleport the main gun back onto the deck, it at least damages the boss a bit. I think a visual indicator for the gun charge is a good idea in general as well.

[TheDragonLiner]

Since you were talking about a "next patch", When would you estimate its release ?

[MetHy]

I'm in Mikkoville. i've got a greenkeycard just after a robot suit fight; except nowhere to use the keycard... i've looked everywhere on the map, even backtracked as far as I could...

I'm honestly a little tired of getting stuck every 2 map or so

[Jblade]

head back across the bridge you entered that area with, there's a river you can travel down (past the parked hover vehicle)

Sorry you're getting stuck - maybe take a break from the mod for a bit after this map since the last Mars section of the game is the longest and is fairly tough (The mars hub's upper section is also quite difficult to navigate for some, which I'll try and amend)

Quote

Since you were talking about a "next patch", When would you estimate its release ?

Not for a long time I'm afraid.

[MetHy]

Heh thanks; I never noticed that river. I remember trying to go in that direction, but on the rocks, which was a dead end, so I didn't bother checking that again and it's the only place I never went back to.

The fact that I found explosives that allow you to backtrack to the start of the level (for no purpose except a secret on the way) also misleaded me in thinknig that's where I was supposed to go back.

[TheDragonLiner]

I see but don't worry no one's impatient for the time being ^_-

BTW may I ask you why not all shotguns can use Magnum shells ?

I can understand that James's Striker cannot since it lacks a butt and therefore the gun would slip under your shoulder but for instance I would have expected Rusty's over-under to be able to, same for James's Auto-5 :/
I'm not an expert in weaponry (not as much as I am in planes) but I expect the "4/0' to be important ^^