[Jokke_r]

gt1750, on May 12 2010, 09:03 PM, said:

I'll look into it, but I'm afraid I'd have to mess with the heightmap because increasing the scale even further makes the texture look distorted.

I've played with zilppuri's trooper a bit: cleaned the def to make the normals work, tweaked the skins and created glow and specular maps. A compilation of ingame shots:

Picture

Any thoughts?

I like it, but i think the normal maps could produce slightly sharper shadows if possible. I haven't looked at the trooper normal maps it might be they just aren't detailed enough for that. Also about the skin, i think the armor looked better when it didn't have that camo pattern, looks too busy now and is a bit distracting. And one final thing, those black lines on the arms/legs always bothered me, they should be nowhere near that dark, they look more like some camo paint instead of natural skin pattern like tigers or something, also their shapes look like someone smudged them in by hand with a one size brush. They should be skin colored but darker imo.

[3D Master]

Jokke_r, on May 12 2010, 11:35 PM, said:

I like it, but i think the normal maps could produce slightly sharper shadows if possible. I haven't looked at the trooper normal maps it might be they just aren't detailed enough for that. Also about the skin, i think the armor looked better when it didn't have that camo pattern, looks too busy now and is a bit distracting. And one final thing, those black lines on the arms/legs always bothered me, they should be nowhere near that dark, they look more like some camo paint instead of natural skin pattern like tigers or something, also their shapes look like someone smudged them in by hand with a one size brush. They should be skin colored but darker imo.

I don't care so much about a pattern, as long as it doesn't go back to the bright green "please shoot me now" cartoony look.

[Hendricks266]

Plagman, on May 12 2010, 10:50 AM, said:

Looking at these E1L1 screens, some of these new replacements seem like a step back from what we had before. Also, please remember not to overwrite old replacements that work better with Polymost due to the lack of lighting. Keep the textures with baked lighting and shadows and add the Polymer-ready diffuse map with the _d suffix.

QFT.

Through the Polymer revisions of Roma Loom, etc., this has not been done.

[Gambini]

ozz, on May 12 2010, 04:27 AM, said:

@Gambini
haha there's ALOT of textures there's no way i could make them all by myself ...though
Roma's doing a awesome job too..I saw the ones for episode 2 it feels like duke again!
The polymer hrp is happing alot faster then I thought... but there's still a long way to go

I didn´t say there are no other good artists. Roma Loom has done a lot of awesome textures and models. What i meant is that there are A LOT of textures that should be redone, and you´re kicking their ass so well.

[Night Wolf]

yeah I didn't mean there's no other good artists either ... and some of the old textures don't need to be reworked ... unless they look cartoony or have fake shadows.. but it seems that its only me and Roma making textures at the moment..
unless someone is just putting them directly into svn..

I was just looking at things in perspective , judging by how long it takes to make just one texture look good

[3D Master]

How about textures that haven't been done at all, first?

[gt1750]

Jokke_r, on May 12 2010, 11:35 PM, said:

I like it, but i think the normal maps could produce slightly sharper shadows if possible. I haven't looked at the trooper normal maps it might be they just aren't detailed enough for that. Also about the skin, i think the armor looked better when it didn't have that camo pattern, looks too busy now and is a bit distracting. And one final thing, those black lines on the arms/legs always bothered me, they should be nowhere near that dark, they look more like some camo paint instead of natural skin pattern like tigers or something, also their shapes look like someone smudged them in by hand with a one size brush. They should be skin colored but darker imo.

My tweaks were mostly hue/saturation adjustments on various parts, I've left the details as they were done by Zilppuri, including camo pattern on metal parts and black stripes on the skin. I guess I could fix that but not too soon. I agree the normals are not detailed enough and sadly they are just jpgs so there can't be any parallaxing effect for now. Sometimes you can even see oddly shaded polys on the model, which I think is caused by the normals being compressed jpegs. New maps in png with alpha channel could improve the appearance, but none other than Zilp can make them. Same goes for the animations and corpse position.

Since I won't have much time to mess with textures in the next six or so weeks, here's what I've done so far - either to be added to the SVN or for further editing.

Ozz's 723, 764, normals+defs:
http://www.mediafire...am0/723+764.rar

Zilppuri's trooper with tweaks, specular maps and glowmap:
http://www.mediafire...z2d/trooper.rar

[Night Wolf]

3D Master, on May 13 2010, 06:53 PM, said:

How about textures that haven't been done at all, first?

I already explained why I wasn't "rushing to do these a while back"
I've never really noticed the one's on the to do list in game yet ... so I'm not going to waste my time
as far as I'm concerned all the textures which were made for polymost are textures that need remaking for polymer.
so in a way I am doing textures that haven't been done IMO

If your so eager to see these done do them yourself

[Night Wolf]

Parkar, on May 13 2010, 01:44 AM, said:

Ozz, for the different paletts just make them like you have as separate files where you feel the tints don't work, like the lights for instance. It would also be awesome if you could post the source files of textures where there are more textures in the same set but you won't be able to finish them. That way someone else can pick it up and do the variations. YOur doing asome work on the textures BTW.

Do you mean like in game screen shots of the tiles so someone can match the colours?

...............................

Concerning the trooper

The trooper looks pretty nice.
though I think the camo pattern should be removed camo seems to human.
the metal parts should like more metallic maybe a fine metal scratch or something.

Also the troopers seem to walk in a zigzag like motion like there moving on a chess board... is the a result of the animation or the original game itself ... and could this be fixed?

[Plagman]

gt1750, on May 13 2010, 06:19 AM, said:

Sometimes you can even see oddly shaded polys on the model, which I think is caused by the normals being compressed jpegs.

I think these are caused by UV mirroring and sharing edges. Basically if a triangle shares an edge with another triangle and if the texture map happens to get mirrored across that edge, that'll throw the tangent basis smoothing algorithm off and you'll end up with normal glitches. I haven't decided whether the engine should handle that case when loading the models or if it should be a requirement that models don't have that, but in the meantime it should be pretty easy to fix it up by duplicating the vertices across that mirror seam.

[3D Master]

ozz, on May 13 2010, 03:36 PM, said:

I already explained why I wasn't "rushing to do these a while back"
I've never really noticed the one's on the to do list in game yet ... so I'm not going to waste my time

I have, for example; go to Shop-n-Bag (E4L3), walk into the store and look left at the dairy section of the store. Totally low-res.

Quote

If your so eager to see these done do them yourself

I'm not a visual artist.

[Night Wolf]

3D Master, on May 14 2010, 06:41 AM, said:

I have, for example; go to Shop-n-Bag (E4L3), walk into the store and look left at the dairy section of the store. Totally low-res.



I'm not a visual artist.

I take it your talking about the milk fridge texture ... which i dont even want to touch... way to complicated ... also its animated
probably why no-one else has attempted it.

That and episode 4 is my least fav episode...

If I see any textures that haven't been done , that I think I can do, ill have a go... but for now I will continue remaking certain textures I dislike.

[Tea Monster]

3D Master, on May 13 2010, 01:41 PM, said:

I have, for example; go to Shop-n-Bag (E4L3), walk into the store and look left at the dairy section of the store. Totally low-res.

Someone actually tried that a while back. The only way to do it properly would be to make models of the milk bottles and such, texture them, and then render them.
They were in the process of doing this, I don't know how far they got. Trying to do this in PS would be a complete waste of time.

EDIT: actually, you could do it in PS, you'd have to either get photo-reference of an open dairy section or create the whole thing in PS from pictures of milk cartons and metal textures. Then you'd have to alter all the labels - then you'd have to dub the glass back on top. The thing would be a major feat of engineering - probably much easier to do in Blender/Max.

[Night Wolf]

It would be good if the person was still working on it ... hopefully they are.
..............

anyway
I've reworked this wall texture since its one of the commonly used textures...

whilst doing this I also noticed how horrid the current detail texture (Paint) is on this texture an other textures that use it...
the detail texture doesn't even seem to tile good.

I think some of the detail textures should be replaced.

[chicken]

Tea Monster, on May 13 2010, 03:07 PM, said:

Someone actually tried that a while back.

That was me. I never really got that far except for a couple of milkcartons and bottles.
But i still have the stuff lying around so eventually i might get back to it. Might take some time though.

[Night Wolf]

Fixed up the skin of the exit signs ... it fits the model properly now and also tweaked the text to match the original tile.

[Jokke_r]

About the detail textures, i almost always leave them disabled, i find since most textures weren't made to accompany the detail texture they tend to look better the way they were originally designed by the artist without slapping some ugly grainy texture on it. Only game i remember seeing detail textures done really well was Halo: Combat Evolved.

[Night Wolf]

Jokke_r, on May 14 2010, 11:41 PM, said:

About the detail textures, i almost always leave them disabled, i find since most textures weren't made to accompany the detail texture they tend to look better the way they were originally designed by the artist without slapping some ugly grainy texture on it. Only game i remember seeing detail textures done really well was Halo: Combat Evolved.

That's true yes, some textures don't need them
they spoil some of the good textures
not all of the detail textures are bad ... I think its just one of the metal ones and the paint that are the worst

but yet some textures look better with them ...
maybe we should take them off a few textures

[Piterplus]

Truly speaking I cannot see the reason to change current one 0783.png to the new which you have done.
Please dont get me wrong, you did a good job, but there is a lot of other textures which need a replacement (for example 0530-0532, 1097, 4302, 5079, 5080, 5099-5104 etc).

[Night Wolf]

Piterplus, on May 15 2010, 01:59 AM, said:

Truly speaking I cannot see the reason to change current one 0783.png to the new which you have done. Maybe I outdated. Sorry.
Please dont get me wrong, you did a good job, but there is a lot of other textures which need a replacement (for example 0530-0532, 1097, 4302, 5079, 5080, 5099-5104 etc).

I can see a reason ... coz the previous one looks like crap

also most of those one's you suggested should be remade by the artist who made #1133 etc.
the involve alot of painting, that artist was quite good at it... if they could be remade for polymer that would be great

[Night Wolf]

If anything I might just need to add a bit of cracks or something to the bottom on the wall of #0783
the detail textures will do the rest

you dont have to use it i just thought id share some of the stuff I previously made also, doesn't mean I'm not working on others

[Night Wolf]

for example
I added cracks etc

The 8bit tile seems more rough as a result of the 8bit not being able to blend in the gradient
if you were to blur the 8 bit tile it would come up with a similar result to what I have created

8BIT NEW PREVIOUS

[Roma Loom]

Hendricks266, on May 13 2010, 01:42 AM, said:

QFT.

Through the Polymer revisions of Roma Loom, etc., this has not been done.

Please explain how does it work. What are the definitions? I put the both XXXX.png and XXXX_d.png into textures folder, put

pal 0 { file "highres/textures/XXXX_d.png" }

into textures.def and I see only XXXX_d.png in polymer and polymost. No switching to XXXX.png at all in polymost.

Also something strange is going on with #0191 since there are two: 0191_d.png and 0191_d.jpg in textures folder but only 0191_d.png is defined.

Also why normal + spec + polymered diffuse for #186 are commented?

[Plagman]

For reference:

<Plagman> the deflines will be : texture tile { tile.png }, diffuse tile { tile_d.png }
<Plagman> and the engine will pick the first when running polymost and the second when running polymer
<Plagman> right now it doesn't cause we can't have diffuse for alt palettes but when it's implemented I'll change all the def files for that
<Plagman> so both files have to be there in the meantime

[Tea Monster]

Ozz I think what is missing from yours is that the cracks (they could actually be just dirt or grime or wear) at the bottom near the moulding needs to be much stronger.

Also, the patterning on the main wall in the previous version was much more true to the original. Now, you could put that onto the normal map, to give it some relief. At the moment, the large expanse of flat colour looks a tad unnatural.

I'd try putting some pattern into the normal map and put the spec map to replace the highlights on the moulding at the bottom and see how she flies, but thats my input.



I've done a paint-over with the bits that I think need altering to more match the original.

[Jokke_r]

I prefer ozz's version, the old one has the wrong color, looks way too rough for a smooth wallpaper, the dithering in the original isn't actual surface properties but gradient lighting that has been dithered due to 8bit limitations. I'm pretty sure that tile is supposed to be almost completely smooth.

[Night Wolf]

Tea Monster, on May 15 2010, 08:57 AM, said:

Ozz I think what is missing from yours is that the cracks (they could actually be just dirt or grime or wear) at the bottom near the moulding needs to be much stronger.

Also, the patterning on the main wall in the previous version was much more true to the original. Now, you could put that onto the normal map, to give it some relief. At the moment, the large expanse of flat colour looks a tad unnatural.

I'd try putting some pattern into the normal map and put the spec map to replace the highlights on the moulding at the bottom and see how she flies, but thats my input.

Its quite an interesting tile to remake ... since it quite hard to make out what its really meant to look like judging for the 8bit art.
I really think its meant to be smoother like a painted wall.

As what Jokke_r and I have specified its most likely limitations to 8 bit art that makes it appear rough ...

So what should I go for cracks , or grime?
as for the moulding I cant really tell what it's 100% meant to look like whether its just sharp n basic or whether its concaved and fancy like..

I think normal and specular maps should give it what it needs in the end if they were created with a little talent.

ill have a go at matching it a little more.

[Night Wolf]

how about this?


Then if someone could cleverly craft the maps for it ... it would probably come out with the desired effect

[LeoD]

ozz, on May 15 2010, 09:56 AM, said:

Then if someone could cleverly craft the maps for it ... it would probably come out with the desired effect

Roma Loom's GRPViewer is clever (see below).
I prefer the previous version because I think it's not a wallpaper but a painted plain (concrete) wall. Plus it is used as floor and ceiling texture as well.


ArtTile 0783 was found in:
E3L1.MAP as a wall texture @ 13952, -31232
E3L2.MAP as a wall texture @ 8576, 19808
E3L2.MAP as a floor texture near wall @ 6656, 28192
E3L4.MAP as a wall texture @ 51968, -59904
E3L7.MAP as a wall texture @ -28736, -8960
E3L8.MAP as a wall texture @ 50944, -51840
E1L1.MAP as a wall texture @ 18944, 58368
E1L1.MAP as a floor texture near wall @ 4864, 53344
E3L11.MAP as a wall texture @ -28096, 13216
E3L11.MAP as a floor texture near wall @ -29888, 16544
E4L1.MAP as a wall texture @ 3840, 33664
E4L1.MAP as a ceiling texture near wall @ 3904, 32512
E4L2.MAP as a wall texture @ 25856, -12800
E4L3.MAP as a wall texture @ -16128, 12800
E4L3.MAP as a floor texture near wall @ -20544, 3520
E4L5.MAP as a wall texture @ 22656, -34816
E4L8.MAP as a wall texture @ 29440, -15104
E4L8.MAP as a ceiling texture near wall @ 31232, -17664
E4L9.MAP as a wall texture @ 52736, 34048
E4L9.MAP as a ceiling texture near wall @ 53760, 34048

[Night Wolf]

LeoD, on May 15 2010, 06:41 PM, said:

I prefer the previous version because I think it's not a wallpaper but a painted plain (concrete) wall. Plus it is used as floor and ceiling texture as well.

You can still get this painted concrete look with maps
I don't really know how to make normal maps but I experimented