[Night Wolf]

 Marphy Black, on 19 July 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

An interesting choice of game to compare to seeing as Brutal Doom quite specifically introduces these mechanics:
- Iron sights
- Reloading
- Head shots
- Weapon recoil
- Quick melee key
- Bloody screens

Not to mention that Brutal Doom adjusts (or breaks, rather) the gameplay balance by making every monster, attack, and projectile nigh-lethal and less able to be dodged, rendering Doom into the modern hide-behind-cover-while-you-reload shooter genre. Of course, there are Call of Duty-based mods for Doom, but those intentionally wish to encompass COD-style gameplay. BD just falls into it due to ineptness and poor design.

It is also not surprising that Brutal Doom has gained much success for emulating CoD since, you know, CoD is still pretty popular. However, the real selling point of BD is not the gameplay (unfortunate as you'd think this is what players would and should care about) but rather the excessive gore and swearing and so forth that adds the edginess factor that appeals to 12 year olds who are trying to look hardcore to other 12 year olds.

Lolwut!?

- Reloading
- Head shots
- Weapon recoil
- Quick melee key

These mechanics were around way before COD.
You don't even have to use iron sights in brutal doom it's optional like most things in the mod.


Brutal Doom is nowhere near Call of Duty in terms of gameplay.
The levels are intact and non linear, as well as most old school gameplay elements such as health and armour pick-ups.
If it was more COD the gameplay would be slow scripted cinematic bullshit closer to Call of Doom

[MusicallyInspired]

If anything, Brutal Doom reminds me of Serious Sam 3.

[Fox]

 Night Wolf, on 19 July 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

- Reloading

Marathon (1994)

 Night Wolf, on 19 July 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

- Head shots

GoldenEye 007 (1997)

 Night Wolf, on 19 July 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

- Weapon recoil

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998)

 Night Wolf, on 19 July 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

- Quick melee key

Duke Nukem 3D (1996)

[Mr.Deviance]

Brutal Doom doesn't remind me of any other game other than doom1 and 2. I don't see how Brutal Doom can remind anybody of other games, when it clearly is just doom with added gameplay features.

As for the suddenly raised pretentions regarding Doom 4, I can't help but feel that I'm surrounded by fussy pigs all of a sudden.
Up until now everybody was eating every piece of shit that they were given and all they could hope for even in their wildest dreams, was that doom4 was going to end up being a cod clone.
Now that Doom4 miraculously isn't appearing to be a cod clone anymore (even though it was until they scrapped it 2 years ago) instead of seeing everybody make interracial peace, end all wars and have world wide religious peace followed by nonstop worldwide parties, everywhere I go all I fucking see is fussy pigs that puff and shake their snouts...

As far as I am concerned, if this new id team manages to create a new doom that is even 80% of what doom3 was, It will be a major hit reported to these times.
I know doom3 can very well be renamed to, Marines and Demons on Mars but if you look past it's Doom3 name and take it for what it is as an independent game, it's a really good game that many including me, have absolutely loved and will never forget.
So when Doom4 is not just aiming to be a doom3 clone but it's apparently actually trying to be better than doom3 and be a game that's much closer to the roots of the series than doom3 was, I am already blown away.
If by any miraculous chance, it actually manages to remind anybody of brutal doom, that would mean they have actually made a HUGE HUGE doom game that might actually end up remembered in history of cool fps games.

[Carl Winslow]

Look at all these babies defending a mod made by a rascist pedophile who's idea of fun is watching long, boring fatalities and swearing like a 13 year old.

[brownfarted]

Brutal Dookie

[Fox]

Add brown water drips on the ceiling.

[Marphy Black]

 Night Wolf, on 19 July 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

These mechanics were around way before COD.

But that's not really the point, is it? None of these features were in Doom, or Doom 2, or even Quake, or even Quake 2, or even Quake 3. No, the conglomeration of all of these features together is the staple of the typical modern shooter, especially the superfluous bloody screens, perfectly exemplified by the CoD franchise which continues to dole itself out on a yearly basis. These days, it's far from uncommon to see requests for these game mechanics when discussions of older FPS titles come about (I can't tell you how many times I've seen people asking for iron sights in Half-Life 2). Why do these asinine requests come up? It's a consequence of the endless series of modern shooters, CoD being the main culprit. Brutal Doom is essentially the manifestation of all of these modern shooter demands shoehorned into a game that doesn't accommodate for it. Although, again, the excessive gore, profanity, and memes are BD's selling point. Completely throwing off the game's balance in the process is just a bonus perk.

And defending detrimental features with "it's optional" or "you don't have to use it" is a poor justification. If you disabled every poor design choice inherent to Brutal Doom, you'd just end up with Doom.

[Night Wolf]

 Marphy Black, on 20 July 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

But that's not really the point, is it?

That's the point you were trying to make... that those mechanics make Brutal Doom similar to COD.

Some of those mechanics as I stated are not "modern", and enhance the gameplay experience imo.

Fuck it's not like you're limited to two weapons and have regenerating health, those are examples of horrible modern features.

I'm convinced you're just shit talking.

[OpenMaw]

 brownfarted, on 20 July 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Brutal Dookie

[cdlink14]

[DustFalcon85]

 brownfarted, on 20 July 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Brutal Dookie

Holy pieces of shit! - Lo Wang

[Hank]

 DustFalcon85, on 20 July 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Holy pieces of shit! - Lo Wang

Huh? More like DNF's shit regen, can't wait to play this shit again, how original

[Daedolon]

 Fox, on 20 July 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (1998)

System Shock had it in 1994.

(Redneck Rampage had it in 1997)

[LkMax]

The overreaction to everything and limited mind of a lot of people here is baffling. The only annoying thing in Brutal Doom is the exaggerated ketchup effect and loud screams, but making the enemies smarter and faster, adding a quick meele attack, optional iron sights and making the world around the player more interactive in general is ruining DooM now? Come-fucking-on, stop being so fucking purist, if you want your unaltered Mona Lisa go play it, you don't need to pay $60 for the identical experience with 3D models.

Guess what, mouse look, jumping and crouching weren't implemented in doom either, that's a shit argument.

[Richard Shead]

 brownfarted, on 20 July 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Brutal Dookie

Still less crappy than DNF(and I'm not just referring to the 1st level).

[MetHy]

 LkMax, on 20 July 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

but making the enemies smarter and faster

This is at least ONE thing I'm willing to defend. It is very important for Doom-era FPS to have 'stupid', or rather 'limited', enemies. The challenge comes from the enemy placement and the mix of enemies (which all have attacks which complete each others).

Give enemies an intelligent AI, and gameplay will inevitably become more cover based and about 'outsmarting' the AI. Like in modern FPS.

So, yes, more intelligent AI will 'ruin' what Doom gameplay is about.

[OpenMaw]

 MetHy, on 20 July 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

This is at least ONE thing I'm willing to defend. It is very important for Doom-era FPS to have 'stupid', or rather 'limited', enemies. The challenge comes from the enemy placement and the mix of enemies (which all have attacks which complete each others).

Give enemies an intelligent AI, and gameplay will inevitably become more cover based and about 'outsmarting' the AI. Like in modern FPS.

So, yes, more intelligent AI will 'ruin' what Doom gameplay is about.

Funny, because I never had any issue with Brutal Doom's AI. Played it just as I would play Doom on UV or NM.

[MetHy]

I was more talking about AI in general.

[Tea Monster]

I love how nobody has seen this thing yet, and yet everyone has a strongly entrenched opinion that they will defend with their interweb lives.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've spoken about BD, but I don't have an opinion on Doom 4 yet. Actually, I don't have an opinion on BD either, having not played it. But I have seen it and I don't see what's to despise so much besides the simple fact that you may not like excessive gore.

[Daedolon]

 LkMax, on 20 July 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Guess what, mouse look, jumping and crouching weren't implemented in doom either, that's a shit argument.

Who uses any of those in Doom?

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 Daedolon, on 20 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Who uses any of those in Doom?

They were implemented in pretty much every source port from Doom Legacy onward (think early 2000).
Not that this is an argument in favor of incorporating it in the game; just something to think about.

[HulkNukem]

 cdlink14, on 20 July 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

I remember my first time playing Doom quite vividly. It was on the SNES, my two older brothers had chose it to rent, and seeing the red cartridge was already blowing my mind.
Then the game loads up, choose episode 1, easiest difficulty, and.... running around the room, up the stairs a few times, not knowing where to go. Still being excited as fuck as to what was happening (only played side scrollers up until this point) but not knowing what the hell was going on. Meh, oh well, start a new game on the other episodes, get killed on the first levels all the time.
The next day, when my brothers were at school and I got home early, I played it, started the first level, and HOLY SHIT IF YOU PRESS A BUTTON ON THAT WHITE WALL IT OPENS UP LIKE A DOOR
I remember running and telling my mom that I 'finally found out how to leave the room' as if it was actually a dilemma
And from that moment on, I promptly got my ass handed to me time and time again. But eventually, I was able to beat the first episode before we had to return the game.


Also, I thought Doom had mouse look originally? Obviously just for left and right. There's footage of Romero playing an early version of Doom and he's using his mouse to look and strafing with the keys. The game wasn't out yet and already he was using mouselook.

[Inspector Lagomorf]

 HulkNukem, on 20 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Also, I thought Doom had mouse look originally? Obviously just for left and right. There's footage of Romero playing an early version of Doom and he's using his mouse to look and strafing with the keys. The game wasn't out yet and already he was using mouselook.

I think "mouselook" generally refers to being able to pivot the player's view on all axes using the mouse; not just the X-axis.

[cdlink14]

 HulkNukem, on 20 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

Also, I thought Doom had mouse look originally? Obviously just for left and right. There's footage of Romero playing an early version of Doom and he's using his mouse to look and strafing with the keys. The game wasn't out yet and already he was using mouselook.

I believe the mouse was supported as a control mechanism from the start, but back then I never messed with the default configuration of games so I just played using the arrow keys.

[Mr. Tibbs]

Bonus Round QuakeCon Doom Reveal.

Quote

After years in development hell, the title that defined the FPS genre is back! Our panel explores what Bethesda has planned for the classic series, and what we can expect from a next-gen DOOM.

[DustFalcon85]

 Colon Semicolon, on 20 July 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

Look at all these babies defending a mod made by a rascist pedophile who's idea of fun is watching long, boring fatalities and swearing like a 13 year old.

[Idiotska]

 brownfarted, on 20 July 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Brutal Dookie

[LkMax]

 Daedolon, on 20 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Who uses any of those in Doom?

So it automatically becomes a bad feature in Doom 4?
Read between the lines.