[Lunick]

64Ghost, on 09 September 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I wish I could of mapped for Duke Nukem Endangered Species. Wonder if this game was out of the question I am guessing it had no hope since no thoughts were on it recently. Anyway it seemed to be a Turok rip off with Duke instead lol.

This game went on to be "Carnivores" which released after Turok and the latest release is "Carnivores: Dinosaur Hunter" ripping Turok off again.

Pretty sure it became Vivisector, not Carnivores.

[Sixty Four]

Ouch hehe yeah your right, sorry it only was using the engine that Carnivores series used. I just checked again, last I checked was probably years ago. But everyone wanted a little bit of the Turok style hehe. Carnivores could of atleast came up with a better name then the Turok 1 title.

I was wondering if this game had no rights or if it was impossible to make for 3DR if they started where they left off with an old engine (before all of this new news obviously). Or was it taken completely out of the picture by the other development team?

[Jimmy]

Vivisector is really good.

[icecoldduke]

MetHy, on 08 September 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

You're naïve if you think Gearbox wouldn't be able to end the project if they wanted to. There is always a way or another to end a contract. At this point who knows if they even took the time to think about that port.

Usually how it works is a publisher/ip owner is only required to pay for each milestone, then the project is over if need be but I don't think that applies to there contract. There really isn't a industry standard for how this would have been setup, but I agree there is probably a provision in there to let the IP owner get out of it at anytime. I would place the odds on that happening pretty low though. They might have to change the branding, i.e. completely remove the 3DRealms logo, but that's probably the extent of what will happen.

MetHy, on 08 September 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

The NDA I signed was valid for 2 years unless renewed. I thought it was a typical case. I guess yours is different.

All the NDA's I've ever signed are lifetime NDA's.

MetHy, on 08 September 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

At this point why would you do anything with the betas other than "looking at the thing and dreaming of what could be in the perfect situation"? Sounds pretty close to what people do when they jerk off

This makes no sense, odds are Richard and Evan haven't even looked at the beta's since they heard the bad news. It probably wasn't a high priority project anyway. Really I doubt we are missing out on much.

[Jimmy]

icecoldduke, on 13 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

Really I doubt we are missing out on much.

Wishful thinking.

[icecoldduke]

Jimmy Gnosis, on 15 September 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Wishful thinking.

Not really, the features that would be unique in these beta builds we can figure out a lot of them based on the content in DNF. Even though the game was awful, the game has to include things George wanted to do during Duke 3D and couldn't implement(either do to time or tech at the time). Even though we won't see these "unique features" in the dev duke builds, odds are there probably isn't that much to see anyway. Either the feature doesn't work right, or it causes the game to crash. If this stuff worked it would be in the final build.

I think the one thing that saved Duke 3D was that George didn't have access to the build engine source, otherwise he probably would have feature peddled Duke3D into the same mess that DNF was, but because of that there wouldn't be any new graphical stuff to see.

Based on what we know of DNF level development, George regularly trashed huge sections of maps, he probably did the same shit during development of Duke3d. Different deviations in levels is probably all there really is to see in these builds. Fact is a lot of level designers on here can knock out way better deviations of the original maps then the original team could do. While it would be interesting in terms of nostalgia, after a couple beta releases people would get bored with playing virtually the same game but with shit in different spots.

There also might be deviations in monsters and such but again most people on here have done way better, and more stable work then what I would have expected to see in the beta builds. There also might be builds in there before they locked down the Duke Nukem concept, these builds could essentially be different games. Who is going to want to play unstable versions of "Duke Nukem 3D" that isn't really Duke Nukem 3D but this half implemented idea that probably isn't that fun to play anyway.

[Fulsy]

With all due respect, Don't think that everyone feels the same way about beta versions as you do.

I can give a shit less about DNF alpha versions (I'm only interested in the Duke3D stuff), but that doesn't mean there isn't a boatload of people who would kill to see 2001-era content, even if it was just mockup content for the trailer, with no actual gameplay. I'm not going to try and speak for them, even though it doesn't interest me.

Also, there's been huge efforts to archive every little scrap, every little magazine clipping, every little VHS tape from the 90's that contains gameplay footage of prerelease versions. People have gone to the lengths of calling up old defunct gaming magazines to see if they still have an old beta copy lying around. Seems to me that quite a few people are going to want to play unstable versions of Duke3D.

Regardless of whether or not you care about level design differences, there's people out there who dedicate their time toward finding and documenting each and every change that a level went through in its development. This shit is like gold to them. There's people who made a big deal about the 0.99 beta, and that's barely even different at all compared to the content that Fresch could've released.

People can make deviations of original maps all they want, but they're never going to replicate an actual earlier copy of a level. People aren't going to replicate EXACTLY how flood zone looked before it got cut in half, or Shop-N-Bag before George "ruined" it.

[icecoldduke]

Fulsy, on 15 September 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

With all due respect, Don't think that everyone feels the same way about beta versions as you do.

I can give a shit less about DNF alpha versions (I'm only interested in the Duke3D stuff), but that doesn't mean there isn't a boatload of people who would kill to see 2001-era content, even if it was just mockup content for the trailer, with no actual gameplay. I'm not going to try and speak for them, even though it doesn't interest me.

Also, there's been huge efforts to archive every little scrap, every little magazine clipping, every little VHS tape from the 90's that contains gameplay footage of prerelease versions. People have gone to the lengths of calling up old defunct gaming magazines to see if they still have an old beta copy lying around. Seems to me that quite a few people are going to want to play unstable versions of Duke3D.

Regardless of whether or not you care about level design differences, there's people out there who dedicate their time toward finding and documenting each and every change that a level went through in its development. This shit is like gold to them. There's people who made a big deal about the 0.99 beta, and that's barely even different at all compared to the content that Fresch could've released.

People can make deviations of original maps all they want, but they're never going to replicate an actual earlier copy of a level. People aren't going to replicate EXACTLY how flood zone looked before it got cut in half, or Shop-N-Bag before George "ruined" it.

If Richard released a couple beta builds right now, I'd download it immediately and play it, so don't get me wrong. I don't think this is worth getting worked over because of all the great Duke content this community has generated over the years. Fact is all the guys making eduke32 content have more talent then the original team. So really anything this community makes is going to be loads better then what is in the dev builds.

[Fulsy]

I totally agree that the community has produced some outstanding content. They've made the build engine do things that the original dev team hadn't even conceived of. There's a VAST library of user content to play made by a lot of very talented people

But the problem is, you can't compare custom content to being able to explore how the episodes we know and love came to be, and how they changed in their development. Both are fun for completely different reasons.

But I agree that we can't treat it like the end of the world. It really sucks to lose this opportunity to get a further look into the development of Duke3D because "Lawyers said no.", but there's nothing we can do but load up some custom levels, and move on.

After all is said and done, access to weird, early beta content is a rare privilege, not a right. I still wish more developers would consider it, though. Non-transparency about a game over a decade old has always rubbed me the wrong way.

[PikaCommando]

Is Bethesda hogging the Prey IP as tightly as Gearbox to the point that they prevent the release of the old builds, even if just images and videos?

[The Kins]

As far as beta stuff goes, I'm less interested in the minor changes from build to build and more in the various assets that changed throughout development - source images, janky alpha sprites, alternate sounds and music, that sort of stuff. It'd act both as a cool piece of historical preservation and as a nice box of assets for usermaps/mods for the final games.

PikaCommando, on 16 September 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

Is Bethesda hogging the Prey IP as tightly as Gearbox to the point that they prevent the release of the old builds, even if just images and videos?

Fred asked Bethesda nicely a while back about the Prey stuff a while back, and they politely requested that he keep it under his hat. I don't think lawyers ever got involved, but either way I don't think we'll see much of it in the future.

[icecoldduke]

The Kins, on 18 September 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

As far as beta stuff goes, I'm less interested in the minor changes from build to build and more in the various assets that changed throughout development - source images, janky alpha sprites, alternate sounds and music, that sort of stuff. It'd act both as a cool piece of historical preservation and as a nice box of assets for usermaps/mods for the final games.

I wonder if TX can get Gearbox to let him knock out a video showing the progression of Duke3d development from start to finish. That should be easi(er) to get through legal, and I think it would give people a lot of what there looking for in the betas anyway.

[Steve]

MusicallyInspired, on 06 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

No. Nothing Duke related belongs to 3DR anymore. It's all under Gearbox now. I don't know about taking the games down. We'll have to wait and see. Yes, all those games are now transferred to Gearbox.

[Kyanos]

MetHy, on 31 August 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

This is the worst news ever. No beta, no mapping contest, and any map we release is basically Gearbox's property now. I feel crushed.

I just got caught up on this news... no comment.

Quote

''any map we release is basically Gearbox's property now''

Is this for real? Who owns usermaps?

[TerminX]

You own your usermaps the same as you always did. People should quit making shit up.

[Fox]

Obviously not. They cannot own something someone else created.

[HulkNukem]

I'm sad I won't get a Zero Hour port/remake for PC

[Tea Monster]

Same here.

OK, so Duke is basically fucked. What about the other 3DR betas and alphas?

[OpenMaw]

It seems like quite a few of their properties are now in the hands of other people. Prey, Max Payne, Shadow Warrior, Duke Nukem.


Do they own Halloween Harry at all? Bio Menace?

[Hendricks266]

Tea Monster, on 22 October 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

What about the other 3DR betas and alphas?

We have plans to move forward with them, but we need permission from the rightsholders in each case. 3DR is completely busy with Bombshell right now.

[TerminX]

Hendricks266, on 23 October 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

We have plans to move forward with them, but we need permission from the rightsholders in each case. 3DR is completely busy with Bombshell right now.

Not to mention you and I are just as busy with the other Bombshell and HTTKC.

[DukeNukem64]

Hello Termin and Hendricks.
Is The other bombshell coming to xbox one aswell?

[TerminX]

Build engine Bombshell game is only on the platforms supported by Steam and GOG as far as I know.

[Micky C]

So it'll be purchasable separately then? I remember someone saying it'll be a bonus with some kind of special addition. Although there's no reason it can't be both.

[TerminX]

It will be available separately.

[DukeNukem64]

Thanks terminx. So basically a pc exclusive.

[MetHy]

TerminX, on 22 October 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

You own your usermaps the same as you always did. People should quit making shit up.

Fox, on 22 October 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

Obviously not. They cannot own something someone else created.

Are you kidding? How does anyone legally own the maps they're making? AFAIK 3DRealms could have made an add-on out of your usermaps and sell it if they wanted, without you getting a cent and whether you care or not. Whoever owns the rights to the game also owns the right to the maps.

[Fox]

Software developers don't own the material created using their tools. Where did you get that idea?

[TerminX]

MetHy, on 24 October 2015 - 05:36 AM, said:

Are you kidding? How does anyone legally own the maps they're making? AFAIK 3DRealms could have made an add-on out of your usermaps and sell it if they wanted, without you getting a cent and whether you care or not. Whoever owns the rights to the game also owns the right to the maps.

That's really ass-backwards, and completely wrong. Nobody owns your maps but yourself any more than Microsoft owns every .doc file ever written.

[Kyanos]

Quote

Microsoft owns every .doc file ever written

Now that google is named alphabet they own all the words ever written or spoken