[Fox]

TerminX, on 24 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Nobody owns your maps but yourself any more than Microsoft owns every .doc file ever written.

I tried to come up with an analogy like that, but I couldn't figure out one that good. Even if Microsoft owned the rights of all .doc files, it would be Ken Silverman who would own any right over maps and not 3DRealms.

[MetHy]

That was different in my mind because a DN3D map is a lot more 'precise'

I swear I had read something about user created content in games somewhere though

[OpenMaw]

TerminX, on 23 October 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

HTTKC.

Is that gonna be under Gearbox's banner now, then?

[TerminX]

The license I have doesn't have any terms or stipulations about branding. I was originally going to put the new 3DR logo on it but that no longer seems like a great idea. Probably just be the Voidpoint logo now.

[The Kins]

TerminX, on 25 October 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

The license I have doesn't have any terms or stipulations about branding. I was originally going to put the new 3DR logo on it but that no longer seems like a great idea. Probably just be the Voidpoint logo now.

There's probably people you can talk to about that, to ensure your butt is sufficiently covered.

[MrFlibble]

Sorry for bumping, hopefully this is the appropriate place to ask. Can you tell if there are any shareware packages of the games that Apogee considered publishing but ultimately didn't (Alien Rampage, Cyril Cyberpunk etc.)? Not necessarily pre-release stuff, just shareware packages with Apogee info, installers etc. that were not used.

[Dr_Proton]

Kept you waiting, huh ? /s

So, I heard there is some shitstorm going on involving mods, so will this inflict on the alpha and beta stuff ?

[MusicallyInspired]

3DR completly lost the rights to Duke so any alpha/beta content they were originally willing to release probably won't be as it all belongs to Gearbox now. At least as far as Duke is concerned. I have no idea if they're still willing to release other Apogee/3DR content. Haven't heard a peep from them about it in ages.

[Fox]

Nobody owns the pre-release material. Assets that have never been released wouldn't be part of the Duke IP. If anyone has any right over it, it would have been the original artists.

TX signed a NDA, which means he's not allowed to reveal the pre-release material. But that doesn't make it anyone's property. Also the NDA wouldn't have been transferred to Gearbox.

[icecoldduke]

Fox, on 26 May 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nobody owns the pre-release material. Assets that have never been released wouldn't be part of the Duke IP. If anyone has any right over it, it would have been the original artists.

TX signed a NDA, which means he's not allowed to reveal the pre-release material. But that doesn't make it anyone's property. Also the NDA wouldn't have been transferred to Gearbox.

Wrong its part of the Duke IP which belonged to 3drealms and now belongs to Gearbox. Those assets are now property of Gearbox.

[MusicallyInspired]

Nobody owns the pre-release material? Is that a joke? It's clearly part of the trademarked Duke Nukem brand. If that was the case there'd be no problem with releasing the beta Prey material, which I remember for sure someone saying was impossible due to license ownership.

Also, why wouldn't the NDA transfer to Gearbox?

[TerminX]

icecoldduke, on 26 May 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Wrong its part of the Duke IP which belonged to 3drealms and now belongs to Gearbox. Those assets are now property of Gearbox.

Well, a lot of it is definitely property of Gearbox, but some of it clearly isn't.

MusicallyInspired, on 26 May 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Also, why wouldn't the NDA transfer to Gearbox?

It doesn't work that way. It's just a general NDA, not something specific to Duke Nukem 3D.

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 26 May 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well, a lot of it is definitely property of Gearbox, but some of it clearly isn't.

I'm sure you can't get into details, but my understand would be if it was content made by 3dr employees for Duke3d, wether or not that content was made at the 3dr offices, it now belongs to Gearbox. That being said, any placeholder assets that infringe on someone's else's IP clearly don't belong to Gearbox.

[Fox]

That would only be the case if the artists signed a contract. But that was over two decades ago, and there weren't tons of clauses like working for a big developer today.

Of course releasing a working prototype of the full game can be considered a form of piracy. Releasing assets that are too close to what's in the final game would be a grey area. But since when is this community is scared of posting texture rips?

[Kristian Joensen]

It is called work for hire, look it up.

[icecoldduke]

Kristian Joensen, on 27 May 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

It is called work for hire, look it up.

I don't think that matters, could you imagine if it did? It would be a legal nightmare to release anything.

[Fox]

We are talking about unreleased textures and maps for a two decade old game. I really doubt their contracts covered that stuff.

[Kristian Joensen]

icecoldduke, on 27 May 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

I don't think that matters, could you imagine if it did? It would be a legal nightmare to release anything.

What? I think maybe you are misunderstanding me. Work for hire is exactly the doctrine/concept that PREVENTS that: http://www.copyright...ircs/circ09.pdf

In other words 3D Realms owned everything created by its employees. Now Gearbox owns that. There is no exception for old stuff or unreleased stuff. Gearbox owns it and it can't be released without their consent.

[MusicallyInspired]

I just figured employees sign contracts stating that whatever they develop for belongs to the company they work for? Regardless of whether it makes it into the game or not. But I have no clue.

[Kristian Joensen]

MusicallyInspired, on 27 May 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

I just figured employees sign contracts stating that whatever they develop for belongs to the company they work for? Regardless of whether it makes it into the game or not. But I have no clue.

Anything created by employees as part of their job belongs to the employer unless the parties agree otherwise.

[Hendricks266]

Kristian Joensen, on 27 May 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

In other words 3D Realms owned everything created by its employees.

For Duke 3D, you are right as far as anyone outside of 3D Realms knows. It is possible that there are individual exceptions. I would not be surprised if Bobby Prince made sure he retained ownership of his music, for example.

Kristian Joensen, on 27 May 2016 - 10:00 AM, said:

Now Gearbox owns that.

We can argue about this aspect. Even if we knew what the terms of the settlement were, it is possible that generic cutting-room-floor materials from 3DR's archives cannot legally be considered part of Duke Nukem 3D. In many cases like this, there is no "correct answer" until it gets tested in court.

[Kristian Joensen]

Hendricks266, on 27 May 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

For Duke 3D, you are right as far as anyone outside of 3D Realms knows. It is possible that there are individual exceptions. I would not be surprised if Bobby Prince made sure he retained ownership of his music, for example.


We can argue about this aspect. Even if we knew what the terms of the settlement were, it is possible that generic cutting-room-floor materials from 3DR's archives cannot legally be considered part of Duke Nukem 3D. In many cases like this, there is no "correct answer" until it gets tested in court.

Yeah, there are plenty of details, exceptions, and nuances in such situations. I was just trying to convey the big picture, in particular that it is unlikely any employees from back then have any rights to the materials.

You are probably right about Bobby Prince though, being a legally trained contracter. Hasn't he stated as much in some interview or something?

But probably the biggest grey area here is what was transfered from 3DR to GBX, coming down to the settlement agreement and how it would be interpreted in a court of law, right?

[Robman]

It's been over 2 years since I was tantalized with the notion of receiving the Shadow Warrior alpha/betas

[Hendricks266]

Robman, on 27 May 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

I

[Fulsy]

Anyone post this yet?

-Snip, Yes, yes they have-

[MusicallyInspired]

I recall an incident with an Indie Music Bundle of some kind where remixes of the complete Duke Nukem II soundtrack were released and Bobby Prince had them taken down in short order.

[Robman]

Yes, I said I.

Nobody else seems to be asking about Sw

[Hendricks266]

Fulsy, on 27 May 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Anyone post this yet?

Yes, it was posted quite a long time ago. The link you provided is a poor-quality mirror made by Beta Bryan. Don't give him undeserved attention.

[MusicallyInspired]

Lol I completely forgot about that kid.

[deuxsonic]

Who is Beta Bryan? You've mentioned this name before.