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Doom corner  "for all Doom related discussion"

User is online   Sanek 

#3511

I'm not saying that I'm against it, I'm saying that the whole jumping mechanics is overused in Doom Ethernal in comprasion to Doom 2016. It's FPS for god's sake, not Prince of Persia or Mario.


1

User is offline   Northrawn 

#3512

Additionally it is cool for sub mediocre people to dislike Doom Eternal, as that makes their subpar lives feel special for a few minutes and for some weird reasons.
-6

User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3513

The skins are just fun. I think the unicorn one is hilarious. I love unlockable skins. Spiderman on PS4 was great.

Also, to disagree with Commando a little bit, I don't think horror was ever the biggest factor for the original Doom. There were creepy looking elements but it was all overshadowed by the "demigod" Doomguy who is brutally destroying all demons in his path with manmade weapons. Just like Doom 2016. Doom 2016 had plenty of horror elements. Just the sight alone of Earth in Eternal is horrific as well. The idea that Earth is basically dead and probably nothing has survived at first glance is pretty horrific to me. Now it's just about vengeance. I'm totally on board. Doom 3 was the only Doom game with heavy forefront horror elements. So much so that it held you back gameplay-wise so that you could be affected by them. Doom 1, 2, and 2016 didn't hold you back. I'd say it's a true return to form in the greatest sense.

And I'm okay with platforming and jumping.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 18 March 2020 - 05:22 PM

3

User is offline   HulkNukem 

#3514

I can understand the complaints about the platforming.
In '16 Doom it seemed natural. The bridge you need to cross has a bunch of holes in it so you use cranes or other platforms that would naturally be there to get across.
From what I've seen in Eternal, you have floating spinning flame sticks straight from Mario and giant 1UP powerups scattered around and it all looks garish and out of place.

That isn't to say its bad or anything but I see why someone would hate it.
3

User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#3515

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 18 March 2020 - 05:22 PM, said:

The skins are just fun. I think the unicorn one is hilarious. I love unlockable skins. Spiderman on PS4 was great.


Yep. My wife is going for the unicorn one because she loves unicorns, and she thinks its funny and badass.

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 18 March 2020 - 05:22 PM, said:

Also, to disagree with Commando a little bit, I don't think horror was ever the biggest factor for the original Doom. There were creepy looking elements but it was all overshadowed by the "demigod" Doomguy who is brutally destroying all demons in his path with manmade weapons. Just like Doom 2016.


It was consciously part of the recipe. Everyone involved with the original Doom will tell you: mood, atmosphere, horror, and suspense were part of it. Doom unsettled me as much as it thrilled me when I played it back in the day. Both John and Adrian Carmack, Romero, Hall, have all gone on record that they wanted to scare the player as much as thrill them. The fear factor of the original games is what inspired Gabe Newell to co-found Valve and make Half-Life. The Playstation, Saturn, and N64 ports of the game all emphasized the horror even more. Doom 3 emphasized the horror. Horror is part of the Doom tapestry, and it has been completely removed from the equation in Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. For those two games, it was the right choice, but with the amount of stuff creatively pulled away in that regard they could make an entire new game out of it.

Doomguy was not a demigod in the original game. He was just some jackass space marine who was in the right place at the right time, primarily due to his strong moral convinctions, and happened to prove himself in the battles that followed. He didn't really even get into the super natural aspects of his being until the end of Episode 1, and didn't really start showing signs of being the demigod until Doom 64 when he decided it was better to remain in Hell.
2

#3516

Moar:

https://www.wired.co...eternal-review/

"like riding a bunch of roller coasters in a row until you can't really tell one apart from another"
1

User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#3517

They wanted to make a shooter/platformer and they did. I respect that they made the game they wanted to instead of doing the safe thing which would have been making a new level pack for Doom 2016 with a few new enemies. I agree that they shouldn't have made Doomguy thicker, especially if he's doing prince of Persia moves now, but that's a pretty minor criticism. For every person who is skeptical of the platforming, I've heard from half a dozen who say it's great. I'm in no hurry to buy it though, I've got other things to do.
2

User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#3518

View PostCommando Nukem, on 18 March 2020 - 05:51 PM, said:

Horror...has been completely removed from the equation in Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal.


This I disagree with, but I respect your opinion.
3

User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3519

Maybe Doom 3 had more horror, but eventually it also got predictable. The game is locking you in a dark area, you take out the flashlight --> zombies appear. Or it's spawning enemies in your back. Eventually it just sucks. Doom 2016 was certainly raising your adrenaline level, but rather because it wanted you to keep moving, which is a good thing. Now they seem to go even one step further by taking away your pistol, so there's no fallback option in case you run out of ammo. If I understood correctly, the game will spawn trash mobs for you to kill easily if your ammo is low. I still need to see this while I am playing it, but the approach seems to be right. In general I am looking forward to Eternal, even though the first official PC release of Doom 64 kinda steals the show.
1

User is offline   Northrawn 

#3520

View PostNightFright, on 19 March 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

Maybe Doom 3 had more horror ...


Yes, the repetitive, tiresome and predictable boredom was horrible.
0

User is offline   Northrawn 

#3521

View PostNightFright, on 19 March 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

Maybe Doom 3 had more horror ...


Yes, the repetitive, tiresome and predictable boredom was horrible.

I hope I can stand Doom Eternal ... it seems to have more vertical action than Wolf 3D ... and that seems too much for all then oldschool gamers. ;)
-2

User is online   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#3522

Maybe I'm biased because he's reviewed some Duke mods, but this is a good review from GmanLives:


1

#3523

View PostSanek, on 18 March 2020 - 12:09 PM, said:

I'm not saying that I'm against it, I'm saying that the whole jumping mechanics is overused in Doom Ethernal in comprasion to Doom 2016. It's FPS for god's sake, not Prince of Persia or Mario.




Hahaha. This is awesome, man. Thanks for sharing.
0

User is offline   Fauch 

#3524

Something funny is it looks like you need to double jump + dash to cross almost every single gap. Like isn't it the point where simply having a longer jump would make more sense?
1

#3525

Looking forward to getting my mitts on this game tonight. Long live classically influenced FPS madness!

This post has been edited by PsychoGoatee: 19 March 2020 - 06:29 PM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#3526

After playing just the first level of this new version of Doom 64, I can already tell differences between Doom 64 EX and the new one isn't as good.

I played and beat EX for the umpteenth time just a couple months ago and the small issues I've found I never came across and I would've noticed. I also wish the new episode was unlocked from the start :/

You also have to sit through FIVE UNSKIPPABLE splash screens whenever you launch it. Luckily the video files are in the install folder and if you delete them, you never have to see them again.

Oh well, onto Eternal!



*edit*

First impressions of Doom Eternal are that its fucking fast and hard. Very fast. Could very well be that I've been mostly playing Hunt: Showdown which is a very slow game, but man this game is fast. They throw quite a bit at you almost immediately and its challenging (playing on Ultra Violence).

They changed the way the chainsaw works which I think is for the better. You no longer equip it and instead its a quick use item. If you run out of gas for it, it will recharge a single usage which can't be used on large enemies but can be used on the smaller fodder.

Things like weapons and items are now floating, spinning, and have bright colored outlines on them. Its a bit much.

As for the first level itself

Spoiler


This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 19 March 2020 - 09:36 PM

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User is offline   Malgon 

#3527

Installing now through the Bethesda.net Launcher and it says less than two hours to download 38.62GB (smaller than the storage requirement they listed), at the normal download speed I usually get. I'm guessing most bought it on Steam instead, which I'm sure would slow down the speed.
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#3528

View PostFauch, on 19 March 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:

Something funny is it looks like you need to double jump + dash to cross almost every single gap. Like isn't it the point where simply having a longer jump would make more sense?


Yeah, I've also argued this before. Why not just make the overall movement speed faster, instead of having these gimmicks to get around the fact that old school Doom was just an overall faster game. Slayer's Testaments is the best of both worlds because you've got the Quake style running/jumping, with all the cool stuff from Doom 2016/Eternal.
0

User is offline   axl 

#3529

View PostHulkNukem, on 19 March 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

After playing just the first level of this new version of Doom 64, I can already tell differences between Doom 64 EX and the new one isn't as good.


Hmmm, I'm afraid I have to agree. Some issues:

- unskippable intros (but you can delete them)
- no vertical mouselook (I understand that they were going for authenticity, but it would be nice if it would have been optional like in Doom 64 EX)
- no ingame stats
- no crosshair

The game however runs very fluently, but then again so does Doom 64 EX. Haven't reached the new chapter yet, so I can't comment on that.

This post has been edited by axl: 20 March 2020 - 12:01 AM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#3530

Doom Eternal's environments are beautiful so far. Also really unique locations, it isn't space base corridor after corridor.

That said, the detailed environments sometimes make it hard to tell where you are allowed to explore or not. I've run into a number of invisible walls and ceilings stopping me from what looked like an explorable area.

Luckily, if you fall into a pit, you teleport back up at the cost of some health (not sure if the higher difficulties outright kill you) The lives are also a great addition IMO. Had a few too many cheap deaths in Doom '16 so its nice if it happens here I don't have to sit through a loading screen and restart an encounter.

The combat encounters have also been varied as well, even with the limited bestiary (referring to early game). Hopefully they keep up the variety.

Oh, and changing your slayer skin changes the model in singleplayer as well, in case you want to play with any unlocked skins.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 20 March 2020 - 01:26 AM

2

User is offline   OpenMaw 

  • Judge Mental

#3531

View PostTrooper Dan, on 19 March 2020 - 01:58 AM, said:

They wanted to make a shooter/platformer and they did. I respect that they made the game they wanted to instead of doing the safe thing which would have been making a new level pack for Doom 2016 with a few new enemies. I agree that they shouldn't have made Doomguy thicker, especially if he's doing prince of Persia moves now, but that's a pretty minor criticism. For every person who is skeptical of the platforming, I've heard from half a dozen who say it's great. I'm in no hurry to buy it though, I've got other things to do.


Honestly for the third game i'd love to see a version of the Slayer that's more patch-worked. Like halfway between the 2016 Slayer and the Playstation artwork, where huge chunks of the Praetor suit are held together in an almost medieval or low-tech way. Almost how they altered Samus' suit in Metroid Fusion.


View PostMusicallyInspired, on 19 March 2020 - 04:29 AM, said:

This I disagree with, but I respect your opinion.



I can certainly understand that we aren't agreeing, but I mean how can you possibly look at Doom 2016 and then compare it to the larger tapestry of Doom and not see the horror is all but gone, now? Just comparing Doom 64 to Doom Eternal is night and day in terms of tone. There is nothing to fear in the new Doom's outside of the gameplay loop of getting your ass creamed after a big fight. That's not the same kind of fear i'm talking about though, that's always been there. I'm talking about the kinda shit that makes your hair stand up, a tingle. Wandering a dark maze, or coming up on a boss encounter, or reading an unsettling PDA log. That shit is literally gone from the tone that is present now.


Character wise you go from playing someone akin to Corporal Hicks, to a Ash from Army of Darkness, to Hercules. You're like The Guy from Disturbed's "The Vengeful One" now.


View PostNightFright, on 19 March 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

Maybe Doom 3 had more horror,


I don't get how anyone can see this as a maybe. Doom 3 is entirely about scaring the piss out of the player constantly. Constantly. Everything is literally spook house horror, jumping out and going AOOOARURGHH!!!

In Doom 3 there was a literal battle for your soul going on. (Everytime your screen turns read or you suffer a vision that's a demon trying to take your soul and possess you.) That shit is so far gone now.


View PostFauch, on 19 March 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:

Something funny is it looks like you need to double jump + dash to cross almost every single gap. Like isn't it the point where simply having a longer jump would make more sense?


On the surface that seems like a good point, but the truth is I can see why they would gimp it this way. Having a really high or long jump naturally would cause issues with the feel of the levels. You'd be able to reach heights where it would feel like you should be able to get to places that you can't. That causes player frustration. They've built this system very carefully.

View PostHulkNukem, on 19 March 2020 - 08:26 PM, said:

After playing just the first level of this new version of Doom 64, I can already tell differences between Doom 64 EX and the new one isn't as good.

I played and beat EX for the umpteenth time just a couple months ago and the small issues I've found I never came across and I would've noticed. I also wish the new episode was unlocked from the start :/


I played the first couple of levels of Doom 64 (Going to beat it before I get into Eternal.)

I'm curious though, what issues did you spot? It's been a year or so since I last gave Doom 64 Ex a proper playthrough.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3532

Regarding Doom 64:
I am pretty sure that after an an official iwad is available now, they will add support for it in GZDoom so you can skip the annoying cutscene parts. However, I doubt it will happen in the near future. Guess if you just played TCs like D64 Retribution, there is little reason to try this.

Oh, and if you want to play Eternal without Denuvo, it's quite easy right now... It's incredible that Denuvo adds 300 MB to the game executable.

This post has been edited by NightFright: 20 March 2020 - 05:00 AM

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User is offline   Malgon 

#3533

Just played a session of DE on Nightmare difficulty and it definitely is pretty intense, with a few fights causing several deaths. The game overall just seems faster, with more stuff going on, and on the higher difficulty you really have to use all the tools at your disposal to survive and not get wrecked in record time. It definitely requires more concentration, that's for sure.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3534

I always do my first playthrough on the lowest difficulty, so I hope I'll not get wiped away too fast. Once I know the levels, I feel OK with ramping up the difficulty - if the game is actually good enough to make me want to play it a second time, that is.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#3535

View PostCommando Nukem, on 20 March 2020 - 02:02 AM, said:

I played the first couple of levels of Doom 64 (Going to beat it before I get into Eternal.)

I'm curious though, what issues did you spot? It's been a year or so since I last gave Doom 64 Ex a proper playthrough.


They are very minor issues but are definitely noticeable. Axl touched on some already.
Unsurprisingly all the health items no longer have red crosses
On doors, there is a seam right in the middle where the texture mirrors
With a controller, 64EX had a row of numbers that would appear when you switched weapons, allowing you to select what you want super fast. That seems to have been taken out.
This one might be exclusive to me, but also with a controller, holding the button to run and also press a button is harder. Theres some sort of input issue going on because switches work fine when the run button isn't held. This issue doesn't exist in 64EX

Like I said, minor issues, but issues 64EX never had.

I did the first Slayer Gate or whatever they're called in Eternal and it throws a ton of demons at you at once. It was well over 10+ at the same time and it was more than any fight in Doom '16 that I can remember. Has me scared for whats in store in the later challenges.
A pretty annoying bug right now is if you play in HDR, the map is extremely dark.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3536

Don't scare me, man. I like to play shooters, but I am not a crack who can dodge every bullet and only do headshots. It still needs to feel casual/fun and not like a chore.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#3537

I haven't played it since I had an N64. I was struck by the atmospheric music and sprite design. Its much more creepy generally than regular Doom. It's almost more like the spiritual prequel to Doom 3 in that it follows a more horror-based design brief. The soundtrack adds so much to the visuals.

I was also surprised by the BUILD-like lighting sector effects.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

#3538

View PostNightFright, on 20 March 2020 - 10:02 AM, said:

Don't scare me, man. I like to play shooters, but I am not a crack who can dodge every bullet and only do headshots. It still needs to feel casual/fun and not like a chore.


Haha, I can say with certainty Eternal is harder than Doom '16 was, however the lives pay a big part in helping alleviate it. Just explore and you'll find plenty of extra lives around.

There's also so many new control and concepts it throws at you so quick it can be overwhelming. Grenades, flamethrower, dash, super punch, enemy weak points, the new way the chainsaw works, all the new upgrades and mods, the very limited ammo count (even more limited than '16 was at the beginning) its a lot to take in all at once but once the game clicks, it clicks and becomes second nature.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 20 March 2020 - 12:15 PM

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User is offline   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#3539

Well, the rule from Doom 2016 still applies: Keep moving or you are dead. The more mobs there are, the faster you gotta be. I jumped around and tried to gain some high ground. Obi Wan taught me well in Revenge of the Sith. ;)
1

User is offline   Malgon 

#3540

Just found a way to abuse the life system and collect a stack of them:

Spoiler

On another note, anyone think the Arachnotrons are way overpowered? I swear, they are like this game's version of the shield guys, and are more frustrating to fight than fun. The visual design of them is great though.

This post has been edited by Malgon: 20 March 2020 - 10:43 PM

1

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