[Micky C]

MetHy, on 15 December 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

In any case, the Megaton workshop is made for Megaton so I doubt its developers are going to leave something that does not work for it a long time there.

I already did CBP 8. I guess I'll stop there for the moment and see what happens. I have a feeling some changes are going to be made to eduke32 to have direct access to the Workshop maps via scanning their folder. Thus all you have to do to play it is download eduke32, put it anywhere on your computer, and run it.

[Jblade]

Micky I think you're exaggerating a bit here with Megaton having a negative effect on Eduke32 - Doom's been up on Steam for a long time (I think it even just runs through Dosbox, so they're not using a port at all) and hasn't caused any kind of problems with it's community. At the end of the day if people play a vanilla map on the workshop, like it and decide to search for more they're more likely than not gonna stumble here. The REAL problem is that there's only 2 review sites going, one run just by Mikko and the other with a very very outdated design, and we don't have a centralized database of Duke mods and maps just various outdated lists spread thinly across the wiki and various other places. Doom has the Cacowards which are a great springboard for finding the best of the best and from there it's fairly simple to branch out and find more stuff. We simply don't produce enough content to justify something like that, but we don't really have a single solid place to point people towards.

[Fox]

James, on 15 December 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

one run just by Mikko and the other with a very very outdated design

Because MSDN with its html frames is not outdated?

[Micky C]

The difference with Doom is because steam runs it in dosbox. People are forced to seek out source ports to have an even remotely modern experience while on the other hand megaton is just modern enough to keep people comfortable. I was probably getting worked up over nothing though since the percentage of people who want to play mods and somehow don't find out about eduke32 (considering how much it's mentioned from standard google searches) is very small.

Is CGS really that outdated? It does the job with reviews, pictures, downloads, many ways to search for things...
I agree the problem is there's no one single source or definitive list of maps and mods that should be played by everybody. Even if we were just going to make one of all the must-play stuff released so far, it's going to be difficult to create such a list due to everyone's differing preferences, tastes and opinions, as well as perceptions of what is "good".

[Jblade]

Plain Simple Garek, on 15 December 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

The difference with Doom is because steam runs it in dosbox. People are forced to seek out source ports to have an even remotely modern experience while on the other hand megaton is just modern enough to keep people comfortable.

Actually many people want to play Doom as close to the original DOS version as possible, so much that there exists a port called Chocolate Doom which is as minimal as possible. The truth is if people even want to check out mods, Megaton won't keep them away from Eduke32. Many others just play the official Duke content for a nostalgia trip.

Quote

Even if we were just going to make one of all the must-play stuff released so far, it's going to be difficult to create such a list due to everyone's differing preferences, tastes and opinions, as well as perceptions of what is "good".

It's not really that hard at all - there's plenty of releases which have near unanimous opinion on their quality. The Roch series is a classic series and nearly everybody here would agree near-essential, due to the effect it's had on many builders. The same can be said of the BOBSP series. Even if you don't enjoy the gameplay, they are important maps simply because they helped shape the building style of many later mappers (who have then gone on to develop their own styles)

Of course it would also be easy just to vote. Starting a topic here, saying most influential Duke maps and mods, would be a start to getting a solid picture of what we as a community consider our best releases.

[Micky C]

Then there starts to be a grey area of whether you should play a map because it's good, or because it was good at the time but there are much better maps now. For example should Parakde be played because it's the first proper TROR map or because of its gameplay? (some people love it but others hate it). Of course with things like the Roch series it's pretty easy to decide. Mods and TCs IMO would be more difficult since they change the core gameplay and players used to vanilla Duke could agree or disagree with the changes. Most people like the AMC TC, but people like Lunick just aren't interested.

Voting and some kind of official thread could work assuming enough people vote and are of a moderately broad cross section of the community.

[Jblade]

It's not a grey area though, I don't think we're on the same train of thought here. This hypothetical list I'm thinking of would list ALL of the highlights of the community's output. Old maps that started concepts but are outdated would still fit in. Bobsp1 has no actual gameplay and is about a minute long, but it's still important. If people just want to play the latest and greatest that's fine, they can use common sense and play mostly newer levels.

Also it's really up to to the person checking out the list if they want to play a project or not. If they're interested they'll check out the older stuff even if they're a bit rough around the edges. If not they can play Dukeplus or WGR2 or whatever. It's the same with Doom - there's tons of excellent mods made with the Vanilla content but if people just want the flashiest stuff than they can go and check out the ZDCMP2, or Brutal Doom, or whatever. It's up to what level of enthusiast the person investigating is.

[Mikko]

Fox, on 15 December 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

Because MSDN with its html frames is not outdated?

Haven't had HTML frames for a while now...

[Fox]

Oh, so it's just an old-school fixed header and menu.

[The Commander]

Fox, on 15 December 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Oh, so it's just an old-school fixed header and menu.

What ever it is, it doesn't work on a smart phone...

[Hank]

Mikko_Sandt, on 15 December 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Haven't had HTML frames for a while now...

You need to declare the character encoding of your web site, then the site should be readable even for (smart) phone.

[added, just in case]
j/k

[Sixty Four]

Fox, on 13 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

You shouldn't upload them just like that since they contain new textures, sounds and a different number of players.

Thinking of it, perhaps I could modify some of the maps.

I fixed all of the textures and made some fixes to the map . Started a duke match on megaton for a test and it seemed to work just fine I dont have it on the workshop though.

Their still might be minor issues but people just want to play the game because of the state the mp is in. People are really happy to get matches when they do, and minor bugs wont be a bother as long as it doesn't crash they're ready to go

[Micky C]

So some news on the CBP 8 map; it's been flagged as incompatible, so I deleted it. Ultimately MetHy was right; the workshop is about convenience, and if people really want to play other maps they're very quick to download and play anyway.

[Mike Norvak]

Plain Simple Garek, on 16 December 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

So some news on the CBP 8 map; it's been flagged as incompatible, so I deleted it. Ultimately MetHy was right; the workshop is about convenience, and if people really want to play other maps they're very quick to download and play anyway.

Well it doesn't have any sense to have a map in the workshop that isn't playable for people using that system...

[Gambini]

I fail to see too the point of promoting something in a medium which is not compatible with it.

But if you really really want to push this anyway, make a square map that, in front of the playerstart, has a huge sign that reads DOWNLOAD EDUKE32 AND ENJOY ALL THE FEATURES THIS GAIME YOU´RE USING DOES NOT SUPPORT. You could put dancers at each side of the sign (and even those spitfire sprites) to make it more visually attractive.

[MetHy]

That is not going to remain public on the workshop for a long time, either. I give it less than a day.

In any case, making and uploading troll maps would be ruining a new convenient and popular system for people to play our maps, while, again, giving bad reputation to eduke32 (which you did not take any part in the making, so you have no rights to give it a bad reputation like that).

It's like taking a crap on the best thing we've had in years for DN3D's usermaps popularity, and patching an eduke32 logo on that crap.

[Gambini]

bah turn on your sarcasm detector

[Forge]

what's the infatuation with pushing a certain port on a site that has its own port?

if people are that interested in playing Duke3D maps they'll branch out on their own looking for them which in turn will lead to discovering eduke32. if they want to play polymer/dukeplus/tror/hrp maps they'll install it of their own accord.

i could understand the push if this was a commercial venture, but the developers aren't making a living off of it

[Fox]

The Commander, on 15 December 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

What ever it is, it doesn't work on a smart phone...

Hmmm, MSDN feels like a site that could use Wordpress... but it has been like that for so long I doubt Mikko would want to change.

[MetHy]

So, Sin Center already got 200 downloads on Steam in 6 days against 156 on moddb in 15 months.

I say this shit is pretty damn great. The workshop is everything I had dreamt of (and asked for in that other thread on this forum) when Megaton was first announced and released, and the dream came true.

It pumps me up to get back to mapping.

There are however two downsides at the moment : apparently it doesn't support midi so you have to make ogg versions of the songs, and you can only upload single maps, not episodes. Oh well. I hope they make it possible to upload episodes in the future but I doubt it...

[Gambini]

I´d be interested on releasing It Lives and Rush2k there but I´m required to buy the game. I´d not transfer the task to someone else since I want to know exactly how they play and look before doing so. They should go well as prior to the release they were tested with Jonof and Proasm, but one never knows.

Quote

I say this shit is pretty damn great. The workshop is everything I had dreamt of (and asked for in that other thread on this forum) when Megaton was first announced and released, and the dream came true.

While that is great, I´d not take that comparision into consideration as Moddb offers 0 exposure to maps. They have to be added as addons which makes them invisible for almost everybody unless you link them somewhere else (which would be the same than just uploading them somewhere else).

[Micky C]

Gambini, on 18 December 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I´d be interested on releasing It Lives and Rush2k there but I´m required to buy the game. I´d not transfer the task to someone else since I want to know exactly how they play and look before doing so. They should go well as prior to the release they were tested with Jonof and Proasm, but one never knows.

You don't think it's worth buying even 75% off? On sale it's cheaper than a cup of coffee.

[Gambini]

While I´d not mind to spend 3 dollars on getting an inferior version of the same game I have been playing -and tinkering- for almost 20 years. I don´t either feel the urge of doing it. If I get the game, it´s probably the only use I´ll give ot it. If I plan to release those maps, then I have to make sure the experience of playing them is the one I expect, which requires time for testing and tracking the users impressions. Everytime I release something to the public, it makes me feel anxious, because I want people to experience what I had in mind and every deviation, for small it is, would get me in a dilema that I don´t have time to suffer.

I´d eventually begin the journey, but I´m good for now with the ten kilometers long todo-list I got.

[Micky C]

What if someone were to buy the game for you?

[Lunick]

MetHy, on 18 December 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

So, Sin Center already got 200 downloads on Steam in 6 days against 156 on moddb in 15 months.I say this shit is pretty damn great.

You're not the only one surprised with the Workshop.

The Slums of L.A. has 1306 downloads on the Duke Nukem Repository here http://dukerepositor...e_Slums_Of_L.A. and Jimmy uploaded the map to the Steam Workshop 13 days ago and has been downloaded a total of 1598 times http://steamcommunit...s/?id=201174643

Gambini, on 18 December 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I´d be interested on releasing It Lives and Rush2k there but I´m required to buy the game. I´d not transfer the task to someone else since I want to know exactly how they play and look before doing so. They should go well as prior to the release they were tested with Jonof and Proasm, but one never knows.While that is great, I´d not take that comparision into consideration as Moddb offers 0 exposure to maps. They have to be added as addons which makes them invisible for almost everybody unless you link them somewhere else (which would be the same than just uploading them somewhere else).

Plain Simple Garek, on 18 December 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

What if someone were to buy the game for you?

I'd ask Termit as I'm sure he wouldn't mind seeing more maps on the workshop otherwise I would buy you a copy when it is on sale again.

[Gambini]

Not sure if any of you meant to buy me the game, but nevermind guys! If i have the game I´ll have to do that stuff I´m avoiding to!

[Forge]

Gambini, on 18 December 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

If I plan to release those maps, then I have to make sure the experience of playing them is the one I expect, which requires time for testing and tracking the users impressions.

why not ask Lunick to test them then post them up if they play satisfactorily?
as highly rated as they are (especially It Lives), they're going to end up there eventually anyway
i'm kinda surprised It Lives is posted up there already

[Gambini]

But the point is that I dont want anybody else to do it. Only I can know, by testing it, if it works as I expect it to work. Call it perfectionism, if you want, and be surprised

[Forge]

i understand your point, but you're indicating that it's not something you're going to do any time soon.
Eventually someone is going to post one of your maps without your knowledge and/or permission
i'm merely suggesting letting someone you know and can trust enough (though it is Lunick) to do right by it now before some knucklehead just slaps it up on the site as is

[Gambini]

The terms of use reads that you have to ask for permission before uploading someone´s else map. If i see my map posted by somebody else I´ll claim my rights to take it down. I´m sure people will not mess that much since Steam is very trigger happy when it comes to banning users.