[X-Vector]

Would you have preferred it if he had used the phrase "they have been economical with the truth" in stead of "they have lied"?

[crunchysuperman]

Well, I don't think they've ever purposely misled anyone, merely made public statements in the past that didn't work out as planned, hence the WID policy. However, if they're going to now come out and say things like "the next time we see DNF, it'll be in a substantial form" and then just piddle out wallpaper, hints & Twitter comments, I can certainly agree with being frustrated.

[Kristian Joensen]

X-Vector, on Mar 4 2009, 03:07 PM, said:

Would you have preferred it if he had used the phrase "they have been economical with the truth" in stead of "they have lied"?

Not without evidence no. That is just a euphemism for "lying".

Quote

However, if they're going to now come out and say things like "the next time we see DNF, it'll be in a substantial form" and then just piddle out wallpaper, hints & Twitter comments, I can certainly agree with being frustrated.

Well I certainly agree with this. Obviously I too am sick and tired of the length of the long development time and I don't like media with no follow up.

Let me clarify, I don't mind the media at ALL. In fact after so long with a media blackout(Which you guys HAVE to admit they where virtually 100% consistent with for almost 6 years and like 95% consistent until the release of the teaser, the thumbnails hardly count as exceptions) finally getting to see how the modern incarnation of the game looks like is VERY VERY refreshing for me. However what I do mind is the lack of follow up.

[X-Vector]

crunchysuperman, on Mar 4 2009, 04:16 PM, said:

Well, I don't think they've ever purposely misled anyone

Not even with the "2001" date in the E3 trailer, suggesting a release year (the other dates shown were release years of previous Duke games) when they knew that DNF could never be finished in the remaining six to seven months?
If I'm not mistaken, then years later it was mentioned that said trailer was only proof-of-concept, which certainly wasn't suggested in 2001.

[Kristian Joensen]

"when they knew that DNF could never be finished in the remaining six to seven months?" With all the mistakes that 3D Realms has done in the course of development of this game I don't think it is a safe assumption to say they knew it at the time. There is a HUUUUUGE difference between not being able to ship in the remaining months and KNOWING that that is the case. Is it so hard for you to believe that 3DR where naive with regards to the 2001 version ?

Also I don't really see the 1991, 1996, 2001 sequence of years as having anything do with hinting at a DNF release NECESSARILY but more as a sort of "Here is what Duke looked like in 1991, here is what Duke looked like in 1996 and here is what Duke looks like now in 2001".

Besides that missing a release date is breaking a promise at best a far cry from either "lying" or "intentionally misleading". It only becomes the latter by ASSUMING that "they knew that DNF could never be finished in the remaining six to seven months?" an assumption that is hardly warranted.

Edit:

I should also add that something can be misleading without being intentionally misleading.

[X-Vector]

I don't think that's unwarranted, since in my recollection 3DR admitted* a couple of years back that the state of the game in 2001 was nowhere near conducive to a release in that timeframe.
Hence the "it was only a proof-of-concept demo" excuse.

*I don't have a quote, but it could be Charlie Wiederhold that mentioned this.

Of course, this is just the E3 trailer, more recently there have been the hokey stories that accompanied the 'media releases'.
The '07 teaser, for example, in no way resembles anything like a demo intended to show off the fruits of 3DR's hard work to a "for your eyes only" family crowd.

[Kristian Joensen]

Quote

I don't think that's unwarranted, since in my recollection 3DR admitted* a couple of years back that the state of the game in 2001 was nowhere near conducive to a release in that timeframe.
Hence the "it was only a proof-of-concept demo" excuse.

Well the question is DID THEY KNOW THAT IN 2001? If they where naive in 2001 they might have thought that the state of the game was "nowhere near conductive" to release that year.

Quote

Of course, this is just the E3 trailer, more recently there have been the hokey stories that accompanied the 'media releases'.
The '07 teaser, for example, in no way resembles anything like a demo intended to show off the fruits of 3DR's hard work to a "for your eyes only" family crowd.

Says who? Your notion of what such a demo would/should be like doesn't mean squat. What you are doing is making unwarranted inferences about the intention of the team behind the teaser based purely on your preconceived notion of what such a demonstration would be like. That is NOT evidence of ANY way, shape or form.

[X-Vector]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 4 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Well the question is DID THEY KNOW THAT IN 2001?

Why would I have mentioned it otherwise?
The idea was that assets were created, but that there was no fully working game structure and that significant technical problems barred things from truly coming together.
Again, this is all from recollection as I don't have a direct quote, but this is simply a state of development that doesn't require hindsight to gauge the chances of an imminent release.

Quote

Says who? Your notion of what such a demo would/should be like doesn't mean squat. What you are doing is making unwarranted inferences about the intention of the team behind the teaser based purely on your preconceived notion of what such a demonstration would be like. That is NOT evidence of ANY way, shape or form.

Not evidence in the sense of being usable in a court of law or the like, no.
Common sense, yes.

If you're in a situation where the risk of a media leak is basically nil (since you're only showing things on a monitor or projector in-house and doing this in company you can trust), then it would make sense to give your audience an actual look at the game.
You know, show off those cool things that you've been slavering away on all those years.

In stead, what was actually produced was a camera pan around a Duke model, with some blink-and-you've-missed-it gameplay scenes (if you can call them that) spliced in.
That's something obviously geared towards gaining maximum exposure through minimal disclosure, i.e. it's clearly aimed for public consumption (and dissection by the diehard fans).

I don't know why the very term "teaser" doesn't give the game away, to be honest.

[Kathy]

crunchysuperman, on Mar 4 2009, 12:56 AM, said:

^ Most of us "old timers" came to that conclusion eons ago.

Well, I can't see much activity here also. Well, then the next conclusion must be that there is nothing really to talk about regarding DNF anywhere.

So... well, that was pretty pointless. At least my message count increased.

Kristian said:

Well I certainly agree with this. Obviously I too am sick and tired of the length of the long development time and I don't like media with no follow up.

Let me clarify, I don't mind the media at ALL. In fact after so long with a media blackout(Which you guys HAVE to admit they where virtually 100% consistent with for almost 6 years and like 95% consistent until the release of the teaser, the thumbnails hardly count as exceptions) finally getting to see how the modern incarnation of the game looks like is VERY VERY refreshing for me. However what I do mind is the lack of follow up.

At last! I thought you were the one partying all the time about every bit of information. Because with your knowledge of all DNF stuff being so enthusiastic was a real mystery to me.

X-Vector said:

In stead, what was actually produced was a camera pan around a Duke model, with some blink-and-you've-missed-it gameplay scenes (if you can call them that) spliced in.
That's something obviously geared towards gaining maximum exposure through minimal disclosure, i.e. it's clearly aimed for public consumption (and dissection by the diehard fans).

That's an interesting point. Plus the video was professionaly made. They recorded the score and voice just for this video. It wasn't Joe saying "I'm back", you know.

Well, let's see what 3dr originaly told us.

"Last Saturday we had our annual company Christmas party. It was a lot of fun as usual but it featured one special surprise. It turns out that several people had been secretly working late nights and into the wee hours of the morning preparing a special video for those at the party. They created a short teaser for Duke Nukem Forever.

After seeing the teaser we thought it was something we should share with all of you and while it's just a teaser, rest assured more is coming.

Tomorrow, Wednesday the 19th, around noon CST, we will release the first teaser trailer from Duke Nukem Forever. "

So... people were secretly doing this teaser and contacting Soule brothers and Jon St. John without George knowing? And I don't think that in 3 days they added something(like score and voiceover) to the video.

It's been more than a year, but I'm curious, what was the explanation at the time about this inconsistency? And why the hell make a teaser for a Christmas party? Why not do a mind-blowing trailer since it's not for the public? Can someone explain that to me?

[crunchysuperman]

I don't think it's out of line to say that they were pretty much incompetent with this game in the past - especially in the PR department. But I still don't think they ever hatched an evil scheme like "mwuah-ha-ha-ha . . . we can fool them all with this for years!" to mislead fans on purpose - that would be silly.

[Kathy]

In the past, you say?

[crunchysuperman]

Time will tell.

[kaisersoze]

Crunchy hit it spot on with 3dr needing to roll out the hype train in the next couple of months. I can't see them doing anything less then a 6 month hype for the game and it's March already. They'd have to have something going by June for the game to make a late 09 release.

I thought by now we'd at least see some more developer interviews(and yes, I know there was a brief T-Ray interview last year) and screenshots.

I'm also curious that George never commented on how Take 2 responded to them finally seeing DNF when he demoed it to them. Not even a "they were blown away by what they saw!" or "It was a real positive showing". Just nothing. It set off a few red flags with me. If he mentioned the fact he was going to show off the game to them, I wonder why he never followed up with what they thought of the game? If it's all "secret hush hush off the record stuff" he probably should have never mentioned it on Twitter to begin with.

This game is pretty damn frustrating to follow.

Oh and STAY TUNED™

[X-Vector]

kaisersoze, on Mar 4 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

This game is pretty damn frustrating to follow.

Would you say it's gotten more frustrating since late '07 or in the six media blackout years before that?

[kaisersoze]

X-Vector, on Mar 4 2009, 03:14 PM, said:

Would you say it's gotten more frustrating since late '07 or in the six media blackout years before that?

More since late 07.

They should have remained in "blackout" mode until the hype start. All the teaser and screenshots have done is get everyone's hopes up and when a few
weeks go by without updates now, people start griping(which is for the most part warranted imo.) It's not unreasonable to think that once George started talking or using Twitter that fans would expect regular updates(in and out burgers and emails don't count.) And I don't believe George is that naive to think otherwise.

[peoplessi]

100% agree what kaisersoze said, since that's what I think too.

[Kathy]

kaisersoze, on Mar 4 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

More since late 07.

They should have remained in "blackout" mode until the hype start. All the teaser and screenshots have done is get everyone's hopes up and when a few
weeks go by without updates now, people start griping(which is for the most part warranted imo.)

Yes, the whole point of media blackout was not to screw up with hyping and promises like they did before 2002. I always prefered 3dr's blackout than GSC's Stalker constant media releases.

Quote

It's not unreasonable to think that once George started talking or using Twitter that fans would expect regular updates(in and out burgers and emails don't count.) And I don't believe George is that naive to think otherwise.

And he posted the whole thing about Twitter in the DNF forum.

[Psyrgery]

George's Twitter post has been nuked from the forums.

I guess there's nothing else to discuss about DNF. Don't Know WTF does the DNF Forums are for.

Man this is nonsense.

Hooray Geroge and people by 3DR, it just gets better everyday!

[Kathy]

I don't understand this. All those Hitler jokes were deleted by the moderator before that. What was the purpose of deleting the whole thread then? Without starting another as Joe sometimes doing when the thread goes too big.

And actually, the whole Twitter thread on 3dr was a really good in terms of reducing new threads. I can't remember many new threads being started out there. Sometimes, it was mutating into a rant thread, but I don't know what 3dr was expecting from DNF forums in the first place without any information except some teasing which makes things even worse.

[Jobi-Wan Kenobi]

WTF, why NUKE the Thread? This is really wired! Any explanation for this?

[peoplessi]

Didn't see that one coming I think it had some valid discussion time to time. I've been bit stunned by the mood that's over at 3D Realms forums overall. Everyone is so damn tense, and nobody is polite anymore or friendly. This goes for all, as much the users as the admins. Admins being that way I can't understand, users are more varied crowd.

[X-Vector]

Second Twitter thread seems to be gone as well; using the search function, I can only find the original: http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.p...ghlight=twitter

At least, I remember there being three of them, but I might be wrong.

[kaisersoze]

As I posted over on the boards there, I believe it was nuked because of it going off topic and possibly being offensive to some. I found the pic humorous but also
realize it could be considered very offensive to some who visit the forum or to George himself.

Irregardless, it looks as if this whole Twitter deal George is doing has blown up in the fan's faces. Don't know how they plan on handling any future twitter updates from him as the threads seem to get deleted anyways.

Really what George needs to do is come out with a nice update/post on the status of the game and sticky it at the top of the forums and then lock it. He can then update that thread along with his twitter postings.

Otherwise, I see no reason for his Twitter account if they aren't going to allow discussion of it over there.

[Kathy]

I think that posting about his Twitter in DNF forums was a mistake. If he never did that then his twitter would have been like his Shack posts. But no, he publicly announced about the twitter in DNf forums.

Jeez, he's not even using twitter like most people do. Posting once a week isn't actually what the twitter for.

Imagine George posting in DNF forums about his account on shacknews. This Twitter thing is the same.

[Psyrgery]

3DR have ruined the forums once again.

Curious enough to see you can't talk about DNF in the official DNF Forums, because everything related to Duke Nukem Forever is or have been irrelevant.

Poor guys, they sure are realizing what have they done and what could be done in order to fix all the mess they are currently doing

Good job there!

They should make Duke4.net forums to be the official one. At least there's much more freedom to do, and the moderators take good care of it, instead of nuking everything they don't like

[MrAdidaKing]

i think its a little ridiculous that george enjoys fucking with his fans. what is that?

[Lead]

Anyone see the movie "Office Space"?

Sometimes GBs antics reminds me of Lumberg. Like he gets bugged by something at work and will just mill around the office to find someone to mess with to make his day. I don't think George is mean spirited, but maybe just doesn't realize how much of an adverse effect it has on fans to keep having these moments where he is leading us on to something and the stops cold.

I think DNF is a big ruse for GB to get into the Guiness Book of World Records for the longest cock tease for simultaneous mass amount of people.

[Kathy]

Lead, on Mar 7 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

Anyone see the movie "Office Space"?

Sometimes GBs antics reminds me of Lumberg. Like he gets bugged by something at work and will just mill around the office to find someone to mess with to make his day.

Aren't most of the bosses like to do that?

Well, at least most of them aren't doing that with their clients...

[crunchysuperman]

I guess we're all having a case of the "Mondays" then.

[Betelgeuse]

9 more months of '09' to go, the silence is frustrating me a lot, but there's still a lot of time left, although chances are, i'll be here in '10, saying something similar.

This hype is like, a roller coaster, G.B G.B, i wanna ride. (of the substantial kind)