[Yatta]

 DavoX, on Jan 1 2009, 08:43 PM, said:

Nope, he didn't learn.

Also wrong thread.

And if you say the same thing every year, eventually you'll be right, and jeez you're going to be annoying when that happens.

From now on, positive posts in this thread will be moved to the enthusiasm thread.

[stumppy84]

Damnit I wish the trailer was out!!!

I guess porn will have to do for now...

[zchri9]

I wish the game was out =D

[Nihilanth]

Ok, so according to this the last restart took place in late 2002. 2003, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08; right now it's over 6 years of development, right? And we're into the seventh year and they still have nothing substantial to show us. It's still gonna be standard lenght FPS, not a huge RPG with hundreds of possible ways to get through. So what the hell? I mean, what kind of FPS takes so long to create?

Ok, Half-Life 2 was 6 years. But as far as I remember there was a year-long delay because of the code theft or something.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl. It's been slightly over 5 years from announcement to release. I'm not sure but I think they started the work on the engine around 2000, or late 2000. So count from that and you get around 7 years. But still, it was far from a standard FPS. The open world, A-Life, numerous problems along the way, engine upgrade to dx9, inexperienced team with overambitious design, the list goes on.
BioShock was 5 or 6 years (gotta check that) from the very beginning. But there were no resources involved that early, just conceptualism, there was a long period with no work at all, at least few working prototypes, and the final push took 14 or so months. And it's also not really a standard FPS, it has a lot of subsystems, lenghtly gameplay it was very well polished.

At the end of the day I'm definetely not the guy who complains about the lenght of development. I only judge the final product regardless of what was promised or how long it took. But since this is a rant thread I thought it would be fun to mock the development time a little bit more.

[crunchysuperman]

 Nihilanth, on Jan 5 2009, 04:47 AM, said:

the last restart took place in late 2002. 2003, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08; right now it's over 6 years of development, right?

IMO, they restarted again in 2005. If not a complete restart then changes large enough to warrant several more years of development and a ton of talent leaving the company.

[peoplessi]

Who says that they restarted back then? I've not heard of any restarts post 2002.

[crunchysuperman]

No one has officially said, hence the "IMO"

[The Dukenator]

IMO, who gives a fuck?

[peoplessi]

 crunchysuperman, on Jan 5 2009, 04:05 PM, said:

No one has officially said, hence the "IMO"

If the departures is your only reasoning behind that scheme, it's not even probable.

[trackit]

i think he meant not only departures, but the fact, that George said in 2005 that DNF comes along nicely and they could ship with what they have and it would be a decent game, and now, 3,5 years later we have still nothing. So restart later in 2005 sounds quite reasonable.

[Montykoro]

2005 mass departure=GB screw content and restart...

Charly...why not tell the truth...

[Yatta]

 Montykoro, on Jan 5 2009, 11:05 AM, said:

2005 mass departure=GB screw content and restart...

Charly...why not tell the truth...

Charlie and any employee of any company are bound by nondisclosure agreements and I respect them for respecting their contracts.

But as you said yourself, it's quite obvious that mass departures led to a restart. When half or more of your team leaves, you'll have wasted so much time replacing them that you'll have to catch up with modern tech as well as show them the strings. It'll essentially be handled like a restart as a result of this all.

No one really had an opportunity to point this out due to the damage control being heavily practiced on the 3D Realms forums.

[Nim]

Looks like DNF and 3drealms is in some sort of government-funded program to support business if they provide jobs for the local community. 3d keeps itself existing by never releasing anything but providing job for people, thus making sure the government keeps the company in its support program. That would also explain the loss of employees, they will they have gained enough to put on a resume to get a job at a company actually producing anything.

/conspiracytheory

[stumppy84]

How many people left? Do we know?

[Yatta]

 stumppy84, on Jan 5 2009, 08:51 PM, said:

How many people left? Do we know?

http://www.duke4.net/page.php?8

[Kathy]

 Nihilanth, on Jan 5 2009, 12:47 PM, said:

Ok, Half-Life 2 was 6 years. But as far as I remember there was a year-long delay because of the code theft or something.

Yes, but didn't HF2 team consist of like 80+ people?

Still, if 3dr continue restarting the damn thing then better to have 80+ team. Wage budget will be bigger, but at least the team probably will get the things done faster. Probably.

I was amazed by the Miller's words in 2006 about how they screwed up with managing. George was the one overseeing everything, but when it didn't go well(duh...), they realized that having sub-George directors overseeing some parts isn't a bad thing. I couldn't believe this.

[Sinisterambo]

 Yatta, on Jan 5 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

It'll essentially be handled like a restart as a result of this all.

No one really had an opportunity to point this out due to the damage control being heavily practiced on the 3D Realms forums.

I speculated that there had been a restart in 2005 on the 3DR forums and Joe told me I was wrong.

I also said when Joe mentioned that the game was nowhere near beta testing stage that perhaps the reason for the then new delay was because it was being released for consoles. I was told this was wrong too by Joe.

I also posted a topic stating sack George and had a huge rant about the restart in 2005, this was deleted. Of course I don't want George to be sacked I was just hugely frustrated at his business strategy. Now I'm not bothered as much as to when it is released because of Black Mesa Source. Now that looks like the best game ever, sorry.

[Yatta]

Joe probably didn't know any better, or he was doing damage control.

It's pretty obvious that there a a restart during the departures and that they're trying to make a 360 port of the game given their job postings for 360 programmers, the 360 screenshots released on XBLA, and George saying that they released Duke3D on XBLA so they could familiarize themselves with the Live interface for future games.

[peoplessi]

Well that makes more sense now, if about 50% workforce left. I don't think it was similar restart that they had before, as in scrap everything and start from scratch. But of course they have had to rework some things and it needs time to get going again fullspeed.

[crunchysuperman]

 peoplessi, on Jan 6 2009, 03:47 PM, said:

I don't think it was similar restart that they had before, as in scrap everything and start from scratch.

Nor do I. I just think this is when they decided to back up and shift the brunt of their focus to the 360, or at the very least rework the game to tailor to it's capabilities. While not a complete restart, it may very well have been the last straw for many, and thus the departures and subsequent further delays.

[Montykoro]

 Yatta, on Jan 5 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

Charlie and any employee of any company are bound by nondisclosure agreements and I respect them for respecting their contracts.

Agree but... I want the truth

/X-file music=1

 Yatta, on Jan 5 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

But as you said yourself, it's quite obvious that mass departures led to a restart. When half or more of your team leaves, you'll have wasted so much time replacing them that you'll have to catch up with modern tech as well as show them the strings. It'll essentially be handled like a restart as a result of this all.

It's the consolitis virus... it's like the T virus... mmm maybe the "C" Virus... XD...

I imagine saying GB: Well let's get to the Xbox 360 the cursed game, but we need to change some of the physical systems, scripts, and some graphic scenes because the "Xenos" and the small ATI are not as powerful...

Charly and others say: ... Well it's done for me... and leave the building...

XD

 Yatta, on Jan 5 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

No one really had an opportunity to point this out due to the damage control being heavily practiced on the 3D Realms forums.

Word

[Kathy]

Well, all those departures were not in one day. Still, losing 50% of the stuff in 6 months is huge. Plus, it was not a mere coincidence that they just happen to found new jobs.

[crunchysuperman]

Even less of a coincidence that it happened right around the time the 360 came out & got popular.

[Kathy]

Well, I don't know. That may be stretching it. Do you really need to change direction of the game that much for a 360 version?

Besides, why even do that? PC and 360 version can't coexist? There is even no pressure to do 360 version graphically dumbed down comparing to PC. It really doesn't matter.

[Montykoro]

 Lotan, on Jan 7 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

Well, I don't know. That may be stretching it. Do you really need to change direction of the game that much for a 360 version?

Think... GTA IV..bad port...poor perfomance...in todays hardware...in 6 months new Vga and Cpu can handle the stupid and bug port like a champ...

Now DNF in 360 runs ALWAYS the same...no upgrade...no performance gain...so it's so so so so Cpu intense the game runs like a 22fps and halo fanboys said "DNF SUXXX 14 year of developement and halo 1 is better" XD...

 Lotan, on Jan 7 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

Besides, why even do that? PC and 360 version can't coexist? There is even no pressure to do 360 version graphically dumbed down comparing to PC. It really doesn't matter.

Pc better and beat up a GAME MACHINE of MICROSOFT? hell no... bum!! no more 3DR in Microsoft...

PC and 360 are the same Consolitis and "standart gameplay target for a controller pad" Hell yes! the POWERFULL 360 come to victory is equal to a gaming pc...

HATE the stupid port to 360 and consoles...NO HALO IN PC....NO GOW IN PC...and NO DNF in Consoles...

And the money thing... never 3dr make profit of a 12 year development game... 12 year of cost like hardware...software...empleoyes salaries...and etc etc...

Sorry 3dr...like Maiden said: "Be quick or be death"...last year...last chance...

/steam=75% and droping... XD

[Kathy]

I think you're pretty biased against consoles.

Isn't Fallout 3 better looking on PC? Yes, it is. Bioshock(more appropriate for comparison) also was better, I think.

Plus, I didn't understand your point about GTA4 port and Halo fans.

P.S. Even Prey was better on PC. At least because of the anti-aliasing.

[kaisersoze]

So should we be expecting anything this first quarter from 3drealms? The DBJ Miller quote saying he thinks they'd miss the end of 08 by a "few months" would give us a rough 1st quarter 09 completion for the game. So we have between now and March/April for the game to be finished based on Scott's estimate.

[Psyrgery]

 kaisersoze, on Jan 8 2009, 07:17 PM, said:

So should we be expecting anything this first quarter from 3drealms? The DBJ Miller quote saying he thinks they'd miss the end of 08 by a "few months" would give us a rough 1st quarter 09 completion for the game. So we have between now and March/April for the game to be finished based on Scott's estimate.

Well, I wouldn't bet on that, but maybe a trailer within this term.

Anyway, is there any way to check whether George or Joe are still alive? Don't know if Joe is currently managing the forums (I suppose the last nuked threads were his job, but anyother like Kalkki, Firefly or Taco could have done it) but George is completely M.I.A. since 3DR Christmas closure.

There's no track on him on the forums (which is not strange), nor on his twitter nor on Shacknews (VERY strange).

Could it be that the whole 3DR staff have closed themselves in a dark room to rush the game or the trailer? I could imagine George whipping his employees and yelling "Come on you slackers!"

Or maybe not, but that last picture imagination of mine made me laugh!

[Nihilanth]

All we can hope for is that one day they'll get into the "ok let's release something random without a reason" mood again and throw a wallpaper or something.

[crunchysuperman]

 kaisersoze, on Jan 8 2009, 01:17 PM, said:

Miller quote saying he thinks they'd miss the end of 08 by a "few months"

Yeah, well I guess we need to think in 3DR time, since"stay tuned" to them means over 13 months.

Quote

So we have between now and March/April for the game to be finished based on Scott's estimate.

I still say that unless we start seeing trailers/previews/articles this quarter, there will be no game this year. If that happens, I think they'll have missed their window yet again. It needs to be this year.