[crunchysuperman]

Well, at least there's one thing he does fast.

[yossa]

Cry, crybaby

EDIT:
I guess that's relevant:

[Kristian Joensen]

First people complain about lacking Twitter updates then they complain about the Twitter updates they get. We are a hard crowd to please.

/me hereby complains about those two Twitters.

[trackit]

haha, is that this "hitler" thing that got twitter thread deleted?

[yossa]

trackit, on Mar 13 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

haha, is that this "hitler" thing that got twitter thread deleted?

Yeah, I call it Twittler.

[Kathy]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 13 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

First people complain about lacking Twitter updates then they complain about the Twitter updates they get. We are a hard crowd to please.

/me hereby complains about those two Twitters.

But, Kristian, that's a legitimate complain since George posted his Twat in DNF subforum.

[zchri9]

George's whole life isnt centered around Duke Nukem Forever you know..
We have some DNF updates and some personal updates, deal with it.

[Kristian Joensen]

Lotan, on Mar 13 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

But, Kristian, that's a legitimate complain since George posted his Twat in DNF subforum.

Since he said he might do some DNF development updates and guess what ? He DID do that. Several actually, probably more than he has done in a similar period of time.

But like I said I SHARE in that complaint.

[trackit]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 13 2009, 11:40 PM, said:

Since he said he might do some DNF development updates and guess what ? He DID do that. Several actually, probably more than he has done in a similar period of time.

But like I said I SHARE in that complaint.

its just we hoped that "development updates" will be just a liiiiiitle more substantial

I remember only one worthy twitter update, the one where he revealed some todo list or something and you could gess from that about some features being in the game.

On the other hand im not following his twitter page though, so i may be mistaken

My point was that when he announced his twitter page on DNF forum and said that he will be updating it with DNF development updates from time to time, then of course everybody thought that they will be getting some worthy information from his twitter page.

[trackit]

Lotan, on Mar 11 2009, 06:13 AM, said:

Considering that this build's development began in 2002, things are looking even worse. And I don't understand why don't 3dr hire more people to do this damn game. "We're small company with 30+ people". And you can't even develop the game in 10 years. Why not add another 30+ people then? Because, as I see now, this build is in the deep shit. Again.

Maybe because there is not much people left who are willing to damage their reputation with working on that "industry joke" game that never ships.

And i dont want to "just offend" anyone, im being serious here. I think the more time passes without anything shipping the less people are willing to work on it. I mean who wants an industry joke on their resume that everyone will laugh at "ha, ha, ha, ha... so you are one of those who didnt manage to ship a game that was in development for 13 years" So i guess if another mass exodus happens then they can have hard time finding replacement.

[Kathy]

Well, they sure would need to offer more money than, say, Blizzard to interest people. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think people would go to Infinity Ward or Epic than 3dRealms if the wage is the same. And DNF surely won't be the last reason why they decided that.

[Kristian Joensen]

If you look at those who have left 3DR previously, that has in NO way impacted their future career in a negative way. They have found jobs quite easily. On the other hand 3DR has also replaced people relatively easily.

[trackit]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 14 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

If you look at those who have left 3DR previously, that has in NO way impacted their future career in a negative way. They have found jobs quite easily. On the other hand 3DR has also replaced people relatively easily.

yap, but that was in the past... when there was hope that DNF will ship and kick ass. Last mass exodus was 4 years ago if i remember correctly. Right now the development time is getting plain rediculous and there is still no light in the end of the tunnel.

[Lead]

People get hired based on the quality of the work that they are capable of. Employers aren't going to hold single people individually responsible for a game not being released. That is just completely stupid.

Also in the case of DNF it's been fairly obvious over time that any delays are due to management\director calls, and their quality\taste requirements and such. Nobody can seriously suggest that the reason for the delay is simply because they happened to have some misfortune of hiring a bunch of people who work insanely slow.

[Kathy]

Lead, on Mar 15 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

People get hired based on the quality of the work that they are capable of. Employers aren't going to hold single people individually responsible for a game not being released. That is just completely stupid.

Yes. But still, I would rather wprk at the company that releases games that I helped develop.

Quote

Also in the case of DNF it's been fairly obvious over time that any delays are due to management\director calls, and their quality\taste requirements and such. Nobody can seriously suggest that the reason for the delay is simply because they happened to have some misfortune of hiring a bunch of people who work insanely slow.

Of course it's management.

Although, Scott Miller two years ago said that hiring unexperienced workers was one of the reasons DNF is still in development. People weren't happy by that. And I agree with them.

[Kristian Joensen]

Although, Scott a bit later clarified that A)He was NOT saying all the people working on the games where where noobs and B)It was THEIR fault for hiring those that where noobs, not the fault of those they hired that happened to lack experience.

[Jobi-Wan Kenobi]

why the heck there is no new media yet? For what are they waiting for? Christmas?

maybe they aren't as advanced with the game as we think, maybe they have to reach a certain milestone to get the word out there?

[Kathy]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 15 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

Although, Scott a bit later clarified that A)He was NOT saying all the people working on the games where where noobs and B)It was THEIR fault for hiring those that where noobs, not the fault of those they hired that happened to lack experience.

Yes. But the first thing he said was about workers. While he did say that in a manner "we were wrong", but it wasn't really heartwarming to the crew.

Jeez. I recall my thoughts two years ago about this matter. I was like "he said it was their fault, not workers', why are they so mad?". And now I'm moving towards the point of view of workers. I'm SO biased...

[crunchysuperman]

I still say they started over again in '05.

[Kathy]

What's the meaning of starting over? They started from point zero or what? Or they started doing new content, but the engine stayed intact? I find it hard to believe actually. Restarts in 1998 and in 2002 are understandable - they've completely changed the engine. What was in 2005? Massive lay-off? Well, the engine and content weren't destroyed.

[Kristian Joensen]

crunchysuperman, on Mar 15 2009, 02:55 PM, said:

I still say they started over again in '05.

You still haven't got any evidence at all

But seriously we do know that ofcourse there have been changes since then.

[trackit]

well, something did trigger another mass exodus in 2005. We were all like whaaat? when we heard that Charlie is leaving. We were hoping to see Duke very soon, all positive and all, and then out of the blue Charlie and other guys are leaving. I remember speculating that this means DNF is nothing near to be completed cause there is no way people will leave on the verge of DNF being done, but other "positive" guys argued that some guys leaving doesnt mean shit, that its personal decision and people just want to do other things blah blah blah... Well guess what, its 4 years later and still nohting. Total restart or not, but im more than sure that in 2005 something happened that set back the release for years to come.

[Kathy]

Restart isn't the only reason that could have triggered mass exodus. Maybe George was a dick, maybe there was some freaky love affair with several people involved, maybe there was actually nothing. So called, mass exodus occurred in the 6 months period. It's not like 3dr lost half of its team in 1-2 days.

Anyway, we already discussed it in this very thread months ago. If there is some connection of mass exodus with possible restart then it's more like "exodus, thus restart", not the other way around. And most likely, that's not the case either.

[trackit]

Lotan, on Mar 15 2009, 06:58 PM, said:

Anyway, we already discussed it in this very thread months ago. If there is some connection of mass exodus with possible restart then it's more like "exodus, thus restart", not the other way around. And most likely, that's not the case either.

What makes you think that? for me it seems more logical that after another stupid decision people got fed up and desperate that this game will never ship and just left. Its not logical for people to leave when everything is finally going smoothly and the game is going to ship soon. Besides, 3DR pays bonuses to employees from profit that game makes (that they where involved in).

[Kristian Joensen]

Can there not be other stupid decisions than restarts? Also why ignore the ONLY stated reason from BOTH parties?

[rockmx8]

What evidence do you guys(the ones that keep saying they restarted the game) have that suggest that they restarted the game?

I'm telling you they didn't, the game they are finishing up right now is great enough and George and the Co. are very confident with the current build of the game.

They aren't stupid to throw away such a great amount of epic progress away for nothing. Just wait a little dudes, you're going to get all the info and media you ask for this year...

[trackit]

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 15 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

Can there not be other stupid decisions than restarts?

i didnt say that it was restart 100%, i said that if not restart then it was something else that clearly set back the release for several years.

Kristian Joensen, on Mar 15 2009, 08:12 PM, said:

Also why ignore the ONLY stated reason from BOTH parties?

You mean people who have signed Non Disclousure Agreements? Of course they cant tell anything what happened internally at 3DR.

[Kathy]

trackit, on Mar 15 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

What makes you think that? for me it seems more logical that after another stupid decision people got fed up and desperate that this game will never ship and just left.

They left within several months. If there was some critical decision that led to the exodus, then it wouldn't have been in several months. Although, Shack said about some departures had occured in several days.

Either way, I recommend reading http://www.shacknews...n.x?story=43655. With comments of course.

[Kristian Joensen]

trackit, on Mar 15 2009, 07:19 PM, said:

i didnt say that it was restart 100%, i said that if not restart then it was something else that clearly set back the release for several years.




You mean people who have signed Non Disclousure Agreements? Of course they cant tell anything what happened internally at 3DR.

What I was referring to their was the fact that BOTH Scott Miller AND Charlie Wiederhold mention noobs slowing them down. That is all that has ever been publicly stated by anyone as a reason, but it is something that has been stated by BOTH sides and hence can't be dissmissed as bias(Which isn't logical fallacy anyway).

[Kathy]

Well, that was quite a read. Fanboys defending 3dRealms because they respect them and everything. I wonder, what if that story broke up today.

Btw, thread about that was nuked on 3dr forums.

rockmx8, on Mar 15 2009, 10:04 PM, said:

I'm telling you they didn't, the game they are finishing up right now is great enough and George and the Co. are very confident with the current build of the game.

Yeah, and fuck you too.