[The Commander]

Yeah, I am pretty sure they are made for coop.



I think they are meant to work like Killing Floor, start off easy then get harder as you go.
At least I believe the inspiration comes from Killing Floor as I have played a few games with him back in the day and I see a lot of similarities between it.

[RichardStorm]

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- I think fascists' laser was already avaialble to soldiers before i researched it

No, sorry, it works fine... before soldiers emitted an orange laser, now it's blue.

[Jblade]

Yeah they're co-op maps They can be played alone but I'd recommend cheating for all weapons since you'll need the extra firepower.

[Jblade]

Batipede, the IW fan who made a trailer/tribute for Imagination World, has made one for the AMC TC:



He's done a great job, so make sure to check it out and give it a 'like' if you enjoyed it

[The Commander]

It's pretty well done for a trailer, you should upload that to the moddb.com page.

[Lt.Havoc]

Okay after playing this TC for days now, I have to point out one thing that bugs the hell out of me: the Pigcops sniping with shotguns. Really, I dont have a problem that they wear armor and that they are deadly up close (even if I found it ridicules that they beat you with their rifles and you explode into tiny bits) but it goes to my nerves that these fuckers can still kill you with a few shots at rangers over at least 200 meters and more. They carry short barreled shotguns and they should be deadly up to 50 meters at most, but they kill you even if you are half across the map with these things. I do think that needs nerfing. I mean even with auto aim on your shotguns dont hit jack at that range but these pigs still kill you with a few shots.

BTW: did you guys add it in that enemies take damage when they walk onto acid, or surfaces that are electric and so on? I had enemies suddenly burst into flames and die as well as having them killed by acid that way (its just sad there is no real infighting, but they still kill each other regularly).

Also why is there no achievement for mass killing and headshots? I already killed over 6000 (!!) enemies (at least thats what my statistics computer says) and a lot of them where killed by shooting them in the head. Just saying that something like that would be neat.

[Jblade]

Lt.Havoc, on 13 January 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

Okay after playing this TC for days now, I have to point out one thing that bugs the hell out of me: the Pigcops sniping with shotguns. Really, I dont have a problem that they wear armor and that they are deadly up close (even if I found it ridicules that they beat you with their rifles and you explode into tiny bits) but it goes to my nerves that these fuckers can still kill you with a few shots at rangers over at least 200 meters and more. They carry short barreled shotguns and they should be deadly up to 50 meters at most, but they kill you even if you are half across the map with these things. I do think that needs nerfing. I mean even with auto aim on your shotguns dont hit jack at that range but these pigs still kill you with a few shots.

Enemy accuracy can't be changed unfortunately, short of hacky solutions like making them miss deliberately. In the next version body armour is MUCH better at stopping shotgun pellets though (They do 1/4 damage instead of 1/2 damage) so you'll be able to close the distance quite easily.

Having said that, I just realised I could easily code them to fire a weaker projectile against the player if the player's far enough away. Bullets are hitscan so it's not possible (as far as I know) to dynamically change the damage done depending on distance but there is ways around it.

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BTW: did you guys add it in that enemies take damage when they walk onto acid, or surfaces that are electric and so on? I had enemies suddenly burst into flames and die as well as having them killed by acid that way (its just sad there is no real infighting, but they still kill each other regularly).

Yeah - infighting is something I'd like but difficult to do as the code for finding targets is pretty CPU intensive.

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Also why is there no achievement for mass killing and headshots? I already killed over 6000 (!!) enemies (at least thats what my statistics computer says) and a lot of them where killed by shooting them in the head. Just saying that something like that would be neat.

I never really thought about it, but you've got a good point - I'll add some more achievements and stuff to the next version So far there's many bug fixes as well as at least one new weapon for Mikko (most likely more coming, as well as hopefully artifacts and equipment)

Has anybody played on expert? Difficult enough, or would you guys want it even harder (to really warrant using research and equipment?) Also do you guys prefer more weaker enemies or tougher versions of standard enemies?

EDIT: Also I wonder if anybody's found the secret temp weapon yet? Think of the Toxic Avenger, there's a hint

[Lt.Havoc]

No I did not found the secret weapon yet let me guess its a

Spoiler

Broom

right? anyway, no I have not played on expert yet, medium is hard enough for me as it is and I have to say that the enemies sure are a lot stronger or maybe thats because I have not played any old school shooters in awhile. The Battlelords sure pack a punch and I did encounter Liztroopers that fire freeze rays, high energy lasers and other stuff as well as PigCops using explosive shells against me. I also think these mini tanks the PigCop use also use different weapons aside from the MG and grenades they also seem to fire lasers and other stuff at you now as well. At least thats from my observation.

Maybe some more variants of the standard enemies would be nice, not just in color but also look and function but I think that should go in the suggestion thread instead of the main discussion.

[Jblade]

Unfortunately there's a tile limit in Duke (60 art tiles) and enemies take up a decent amount of space - I'd love to have alternate graphics for one enemy types but since tile space is limited I'd rather use other art tiles for new and different enemies. Originally the Pig cop vests were a seperate enemy type to the original pig-cop but I merged them into one for a number of reasons. If the art tile limit can ever be increased than I'd definitly reconsider my stance (There WAS also alternate graphics for characters wearing heavy armour. James, Sang and Highwire had heavy armour frames but these were cut to make way for more gameplay-related stuff such as weapons)

[Mister Sinister]

For the first time i played on Hard and it wasn't so hard for me except for few levels: DIS Base,Abyss and Revolution. Those are just really hard.
Now I've started to play on expert as Geoffry and I don't have any problems with difficulty at Megabase,though i must say that Geoffry's shotgun is pretty weak but his AMC machinegun is really powerful!

[Jblade]

You really think his shotgun's weak? Apart from accuracy it actually fires more pellets and does more damage per shot than any other shotgun

[Mister Sinister]

Hm,i don't know,his damage is great,but his accuracy and rate of fire makes it weaker than,for example,Rusty's shotgun.
Oh yeah,and i've just finished DIS Base on Expert - it wasn't hard at all! I think it's because of my character choice.

[Lt.Havoc]

James, on 14 January 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Unfortunately there's a tile limit in Duke (60 art tiles) and enemies take up a decent amount of space - I'd love to have alternate graphics for one enemy types but since tile space is limited I'd rather use other art tiles for new and different enemies. Originally the Pig cop vests were a seperate enemy type to the original pig-cop but I merged them into one for a number of reasons. If the art tile limit can ever be increased than I'd definitly reconsider my stance (There WAS also alternate graphics for characters wearing heavy armour. James, Sang and Highwire had heavy armour frames but these were cut to make way for more gameplay-related stuff such as weapons)

That sucks, I thought you could work around that now due the changes done to the source code of the game.

anyway as for the shotguns: what I noticed is that shotguns are crap underwater. Hitting octabrains or even Sharks with them is impossible even if you are up close. Yet, pistols, SMGs and ARs all seem to work perfectly fine underwater and hitting enemies. Its really odd. Yes Goffreys shotgun has a insane spread, but I love his SMG I think its one of the few SMGs that actually work against Pigcops wearing armor.

[Jblade]

Lt.Havoc, on 14 January 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

That sucks, I thought you could work around that now due the changes done to the source code of the game.

anyway as for the shotguns: what I noticed is that shotguns are crap underwater. Hitting octabrains or even Sharks with them is impossible even if you are up close. Yet, pistols, SMGs and ARs all seem to work perfectly fine underwater and hitting enemies. Its really odd. Yes Goffreys shotgun has a insane spread, but I love his SMG I think its one of the few SMGs that actually work against Pigcops wearing armor.

All bullet weapons suffer an accuracy penalty when underwater, this just wasn't shown via the crosshair due to an oversight with coding. Originally I was going to make many weapons unable to fire at all underwater, but this would of made many usermaps unbeatable so a comprimise was reached (and also opens up potential for aquatic weapons that fire better underwater and stuff)

[Mister Sinister]

So i've been playing on expert difficulty today and i think you can make it a bit harder or maybe add new unlockable difficulty level. Most levels aren't that hard even on expert,except for Revolution and Abyss. Revolution is a damn hard level even on medium and i think you should make it easier a little bit,lower tank health,for example,or make their rockets fly slower. As for Abyss it's ok,hard enough,but it's not too hard,though boss fight is a bit harder than it should be.
Is it ok that bosses lifebars didn't show up when player fighting them on expert difficulty?

[Jblade]

Mister Sinister, on 15 January 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

So i've been playing on expert difficulty today and i think you can make it a bit harder or maybe add new unlockable difficulty level. Most levels aren't that hard even on expert,except for Revolution and Abyss. Revolution is a damn hard level even on medium and i think you should make it easier a little bit,lower tank health,for example,or make their rockets fly slower. As for Abyss it's ok,hard enough,but nit's not too hard,though boss fight is a bit harder than it should be.
Is it ok that bosses lifebars didn't show up when player fighting them on expert difficulty?

Yeah, that's intended. Tanks shouldn't be a problem on expert but I'll look into it - I also agree that maybe a bit more health or body armour wouldn't be out of place in Revolution, although the equipment crates do help a great deal

EDIT: also adding new skill levels to the menu isn't possible at this minute sadly. They're supported in engine, but I don't want to make a really convulted way of selecting new difficulties. Being able to add new skills to the menu would be fantastic though!

[MetHy]

I've been enjoying it so far (fav maps being Rusty's so far) until Highwire's map.

Don't get me wrong, the map looks good, I like the weapons as well, but the problem comes from the 4 soldiers hired for the mission. Out of the 4 of them, 2 chickened out and hid behind a crate for half of the map until I got back there to tell them to "wait" and then to "follow me" again so that they'd move again. The 3rd guy found himself in a more advanced part of the map that he wasn't supposed to be yet (after the door that you have to explode with C4), and the fourth guy decided it was a good idea to take a bath in the river while his comrades are fighting; and since I need him and that's an unreachable area, I have to restart the mao over now.




The 4 of them should be shot for disobeying to my orders.

I tried.

With no success.

[Jimmy]

I've gotten all four of them out the river before. There is one part in the river that has a ramp coming out the water and you can entice them to jump out there.

[Loke]

Yeah, check the right side while under the bridge. There should be a small crack (?) on the ledge which the soldiers can use to get back up.

[Raritysretainer]

I like the abyss map best so far. "Bleak" "stark" "lifeless" "empty" are all good traits for a hellish map. Feels like a minimalistic art piece.

[Jblade]

I've changed Highwire's map a while back so that you don't need any allies to proceed at the end - I will get around to making the vital NPCs silently teleport to you if you're too far away though as well. Sorry you got stuck on that bit! I also still need to get voice acting for Vladmir - TX said he'd do it but I imagine he's busy with stuff so I don't bug him about it. Any russians or good russian sounding guys send me a message if you're interested in voicing him

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I like the abyss map best so far. "Bleak" "stark" "lifeless" "empty" are all good traits for a hellish map. Feels like a minimalistic art piece.

Thanks - that's what I was going for. Although Dis Base was doom-inspired I didn't want to do the same kind of hell map as Doom has. That's why you don't see any bodies or tortured souls or anything like that there. I'm glad it achieved that goal to some people

Spoiler

There's also the possibility that it's not actually Hell you're in, and is instead being created by the creature you fight at the end using what you'd imagine hell to be like (but missing life and things like that) A few spirits in Dis base support this theory

EDIT: On a personel note I really like seeing people using different upgrades in screenshots; little personel things like who picks what to upgrade first as well as player character choice (and even colour!) are cool to see people enjoy about the game.

[Raritysretainer]

James, on 17 January 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

EDIT: On a personel note I really like seeing people using different upgrades in screenshots; little personel things like who picks what to upgrade first as well as player character choice (and even colour!) are cool to see people enjoy about the game.

Well I usually get the grenade launcher for highwire first whenever I play him. I usually don't get bother with any of weapon replacements either as his defaults are powerful enough. Especially the AK, it hits like the angry fist of Stalin and the poor accuracy isn't really a major downside with an automatic.

I don't like the knight at all though. If I wanted to hit things with blunt objects I'd buy skryrim.

Your spoiler intrigues me a great deal. I'm hoping we'll see a greater variation in demons and monsters in later episodes. It would also be cool to learn what the aliens are doing about the manifestations. Maybe they have their own plan to stop the demons. Maybe their plan might have the unpleasant side effect of wiping out all life on earth.

[jake_cobb]

after what feels like months.. (ok, almost 3 weeks) I think I've nearly completely completed everything (according to the short wiki) however I'm still missing Mikko's 3rd weapon replacement I have both the Silver Talon and the MDF Plasma Gun, but am missing the MS-Corp Silenced SMG.. I've played through his section 3 times now (and scanned all the walls I could find with the PDA) and still can't find it. I've rescued the Russian soldier from Highwire's Bunker level and he's stood in the weapons shop (so I could buy all the shiny), I have no idea where it could be.

other than that i've started to notice some frame rate slowdown, partly on Rusty's level (but only near the massive lake), Highwire's (first part and James' section on the roof on-wards) and on Providence, I *think* it has something to with the weather conditions throwing the frame-rate out.. I've since dropped down to the default pixel size on 8bit. (not used polymer at all) and it's smoother, but not great. other than that this is the most epically awesome tc I've played since the Half-Life Poke646 Vendetta.

[Jblade]

Raritysretainer, on 17 January 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Well I usually get the grenade launcher for highwire first whenever I play him. I usually don't get bother with any of weapon replacements either as his defaults are powerful enough. Especially the AK, it hits like the angry fist of Stalin and the poor accuracy isn't really a major downside with an automatic.

I'm a big fan of the Saiga-12 compared to the Remington; not being able to use alternate ammo is a downside but a gun that can use them normally isn't far away

Quote

Your spoiler intrigues me a great deal. I'm hoping we'll see a greater variation in demons and monsters in later episodes. It would also be cool to learn what the aliens are doing about the manifestations. Maybe they have their own plan to stop the demons. Maybe their plan might have the unpleasant side effect of wiping out all life on earth.

The aliens pretty much left Earth; but it's possible that the paranormal wave will reach much farther than Sol system A mission to X64-2, the planet you visit in Maarten's map with the same name and in Imperium as well, may be on the cards in the future. It won't be just the Cycloids who are interested in the paranormal activity though.

Quote

after what feels like months.. (ok, almost 3 weeks) I think I've nearly completely completed everything (according to the short wiki) however I'm still missing Mikko's 3rd weapon replacement I have both the Silver Talon and the MDF Plasma Gun, but am missing the MS-Corp Silenced SMG.. I've played through his section 3 times now (and scanned all the walls I could find with the PDA) and still can't find it. I've rescued the Russian soldier from Highwire's Bunker level and he's stood in the weapons shop (so I could buy all the shiny), I have no idea where it could be.

That gun should be on Mikko's level but was accidentally left out; the next patch will be a big one with some new content as well. The gun will appear in that level as well as a brand new one Sorry about that, I did add it to the teleporter room but I must of forgot to copy the updated map over.

I've also added more detail to Dis Base and Abyss, in response to a few detail criticisms; to be honest although I was happy with the levels I could understand them as many areas were shockingly bare in Dis base (Abyss will still remain sparse and lifeless, I've only detailed out rock formations and stuff so it looks more normal and less 'video gamey')

Glad you're enjoying the TC - I did make a code adjustment to the snow/rain using new code by helix a while back so it was better than it was, but I should/will include an option to disable the weather for those who experience slow-down.

[Lt.Havoc]

I found a bug with Zaxtor Znort speical weapon, the Quad Barreled Shotgun: apparently, because you fire 4 shells at the same time, the ammo counter multiplies the amount of ammo 4x, which results in your ammo counter saying you have 100 shells even if you only have 25 because 4x25 are 100. Its really annoying because the counter says one thing and the weapon select something else and you run out of ammo even if you still have ammo left in the counter. That needs fixing.

Oh I also noticed that when you play Josh Manson you are unable to pick up missile ammo for the missile launcher. I dont know why that is but I had this problem in a user map. BTW: I also noticed that some user levels are un-beatable with certain characters because it requires you to use remote detonated explosives or for whatever reason you cant push the exist button. I would suggest that James grenades get an alt fire where they explode with a timer or something like that (or add remote detonated C4). Not to mention that a lot of usermaps are filled with one Battlelord after another so you kinda run into problems there too.

That said, there should be ammo pickups for your temporary weapons. I love the FAL and the Minigun but always run out of ammo for them and that at the worst times. The weapon upgrades are not usable for usermaps, what I mean is that even if you bought all of them, they are not saved for usermaps so they are pointless there (I find that sad really). I wish that upgrades would be saved like everything else .

So yeah, thats just some things I noticed.

[Jblade]

Lt.Havoc, on 18 January 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

I found a bug with Zaxtor Znort speical weapon, the Quad Barreled Shotgun: apparently, because you fire 4 shells at the same time, the ammo counter multiplies the amount of ammo 4x, which results in your ammo counter saying you have 100 shells even if you only have 25 because 4x25 are 100. Its really annoying because the counter says one thing and the weapon select something else and you run out of ammo even if you still have ammo left in the counter. That needs fixing.

I'm a bit confused - you're saying you think the ammo count should show how many shots you have exactly rather than what is now, which is actual ammo countx4?

Quote

Oh I also noticed that when you play Josh Manson you are unable to pick up missile ammo for the missile launcher. I dont know why that is but I had this problem in a user map. BTW: I also noticed that some user levels are un-beatable with certain characters because it requires you to use remote detonated explosives or for whatever reason you cant push the exist button. I would suggest that James grenades get an alt fire where they explode with a timer or something like that (or add remote detonated C4). Not to mention that a lot of usermaps are filled with one Battlelord after another so you kinda run into problems there too.

I did know this would break some usermaps, but apart from making everybody's explosives remote controlled it's just a problem that will occur from having a huge selection of usermaps.

Quote

That said, there should be ammo pickups for your temporary weapons. I love the FAL and the Minigun but always run out of ammo for them and that at the worst times. The weapon upgrades are not usable for usermaps, what I mean is that even if you bought all of them, they are not saved for usermaps so they are pointless there (I find that sad really). I wish that upgrades would be saved like everything else .

So yeah, thats just some things I noticed.

While a nice idea, the problem with this is that there's no variable for each weapon's ammo - they're counted seperately. In other words, there's no variable for 'FN FAL' ammo so you wouldn't be able to pick up ammo for it unless you already had it. The idea behind temp weapons originally was more like action movies where they pick up a dude's gun and fire it until empty and then chuck it.

What I think I'll do though is code a generic ammo item that'll add a balanced amount of ammo to your temporary weapon so you can carry on using it throughout the level

[TheAdamantArchvile]

Found a little level skip in Millhaven.

[Forge]

James, on 18 January 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

The idea behind temp weapons originally was more like action movies where they pick up a dude's gun and fire it until empty and then chuck it.

What I think I'll do though is code a generic ammo item that'll add a balanced amount of ammo to your temporary weapon so you can carry on using it throughout the level

I liked the use and chuck aspect. That's what makes the temporary weapons temporary. Pick it up, use it up, toss it until you find another one. Saves on ammo for the permanent weapons and adds variety when you're constantly picking up and dropping different guns.

[Jblade]

Archvile: well spotted, I'll fix it thanks

Forge, on 18 January 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

I liked the use and chuck aspect. That's what makes the temporary weapons temporary. Pick it up, use it up, toss it until you find another one. Saves on ammo for the permanent weapons and adds variety when you're constantly picking up and dropping different guns.

That and it also gave a chance to use different weapon styles with different characters just for the fun of it - and I also thought it helped tie an environment in together a bit better if there were some more appropriate weapons to that area featured (Like in Abyss how only the Hell weapons featured, how there were realistic guns in Revolution and Blood-style guns in Providence)

[Lt.Havoc]

Quote

In the weapons select, the amount of shells is 25, however, the ammo counter in the HUD shows 100, but you do not have 100 rounds, even if you fire 4 shots at the same time, 100 round should not be depleted so fast, considering you only pick up plus 5 shells per shotgun ammo pickup, the whole thing makes no sense. If you have 25 shells, it should only show 25 shells, not 100 shells.

also, something I forgot to mention: dual weapons are only picked up and shown akmibo when you have them selected, otherwise it wont work for some reason. IE you pick up James pistol and dont have the pistol selected, you dont get dual pistols. I find that a bit odd.