[Kyanos]

Thanks guys!
@Marked, Skins are my bane (I can't draw shit. Everything is cut and paste, then photoshop does the rest) Feel free to improve on anything I make.
@DT, The stacking problem was in my head, I kinda just hoped it would line up properly. I can make a seam in the middle and do a mirror on the texture there. Say Bottom rungs are left side of skin, middle rungs are right side, then reversed so that the top flows back to where the bottom started.

[Mark]

Drek: The ladder is basically OK. I'm just offering some tips for the future. I noticed the 704 poly count is high for a simple ladder. For a modern ladder that extra smoothness of 32 faces for each of the steps and legs is fine. But for an older more rugged medieval looking ladder you would need only about 6-10 faces. And when making a skin you have to remember that not everyone will be playing under Polymer with lighting to give shading to the model's skin. So when making the skin texture be sure to darken and lighten some strips of it so you can apply the darker texture to areas that need it and lighter to the others. It adds a lot of realism to the model.

Keep up the good work. I'll probably start a few models myself this weekend.

[Danukem]

Marked, on 02 September 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

Drek: The ladder is basically OK. I'm just offering some tips for the future. I noticed the 704 poly count is high for a simple ladder. For a modern ladder that extra smoothness of 32 faces for each of the steps and legs is fine. But for an older more rugged medieval looking ladder you would need only about 6-10 faces.

For what it's worth, if you do a google image search for "medieval ladder" the support beams in the pictured ladders are squared off, they are not rounded like in the model. In the sprites, it could go either way -- it's hard to tell if they are squared or rounded.

[Kyanos]

Well, I've come across some issues taking a closer look at the next "broken" ladder. Pieced together with skulls. Ha, poly count jumps a bit now. I am not sure how I plan on making a "8-bit-ish" model version of this one. I may be taking a few more liberties. For example, from the back do you see eye sockets again?
I will change the ladder I made, keeping both of your suggestions in mind, and base the next one off of the final version.
PS. I wanted to make it square, it looked round to me at the time. It will be square next post. Tomorrow.

[Kyanos]

That's what I came up with for a medieval ladder. What do you think? It's not the sprite, it looks different from front to back. The rungs are tied to the front of the stringers.

[Danukem]

Drek, on 03 September 2011 - 02:59 PM, said:

3560-ladder.jpg
That's what I came up with for a medieval ladder. What do you think? It's not the sprite, it looks different from front to back. The rungs are tied to the front of the stringers.

I like it, except for the strings...the strings don't look good. Maybe it's just an issue with the skin, but they look someone drew white Xs on it.

[Kyanos]

DeeperThought, on 03 September 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

I like it, except for the strings...the strings don't look good. Maybe it's just an issue with the skin, but they look someone drew white Xs on it.

They look better in proper perspective, but yeah I am improving the skin now.
I could "nail" the rungs on. Let's see what I get with some work on the texture and a better unwrap. If it comes out good it may be usable.

[Mark]

I'm almost done with barrel 491 and bars 7091. I'll post them with the defs when I'm done scaling and tweaking the skins. The original barrel sprite was too low rez to use as a skin on the model so I made a new one. I like the idea for the ladder.

[Danukem]

Marked, I think you should increase the number of faces on those barrels so they look more rounded.

Drek, after playing WG's maps, I have noticed that your chest model is slightly off center. It is set back a bit from the sprite, so that the back of the chest clips into walls if the sprite was close (but not touching) the wall. Also, it is off slightly to one side.

[Kyanos]

I think it might be good as is, with no strings. Here it is.
 ladders(2).zip (348.14K)
Number of downloads: 924

model "misc/ladders/3560-ladder.md3 " {
scale 15 shade 0 // approx.
skin { pal 0 file "misc/ladders/3560-ladderskin.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3560 flags 0 }
}

[Kyanos]

DeeperThought, on 03 September 2011 - 03:46 PM, said:

Drek, after playing WG's maps, I have noticed that your chest model is slightly off center. It is set back a bit from the sprite, so that the back of the chest clips into walls if the sprite was close (but not touching) the wall. Also, it is off slightly to one side.

If I compare between 8-bit and polymost will I be able to see the difference, or should I turn models off in game? I need to know exactly where you want it, then I can fit it there. I think I will have to reanimate it again.
edit: I wish there was a xadd, and yadd for def code.

[Danukem]

Drek, on 03 September 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

If I compare between 8-bit and polymost will I be able to see the difference, or should I turn models off in game? I need to know exactly where you want it, then I can fit it there. I think I will have to reanimate it again.
edit: I wish there was a xadd, and yadd for def code.

I usually check by turning models off/on in game. Try this: put the voxel right on a visible sector boundary where there is an edge or texture change. Then that border is a landmark and you can see exactly how it has moved when you switch back and forth. To make it appear as a voxel in mapster, either run mapster in 8-bit mode or comment out the model definition.

I really like the new ladder. The correct scale for it is 14.77 (I had to fire up mapster about 15 times and make little adjustments to get that, lol)

[Danukem]

Oops, the chest model is perfectly centered. The problem is that the proportions aren't the same, and that is why it clips through walls sometimes. Check the attached map. I put the chest on a sector that is the exact size of the voxel. Try it with the voxel (model commented out) and with the model. The model is less wide and more deep than the voxel. I actually like the proportions of the model just fine, but there's a consistency issue.

Attached File(s)

•  chesttest.zip (314bytes)
  Number of downloads: 849

[Mark]

I added more faces to the barrel. But now its time to watch a few hours of Benny Hill and Three Stooges on TV. See you tomorrow.

[Kyanos]

DeeperThought, on 03 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

I really like the new ladder. The correct scale for it is 14.77 (I had to fire up mapster about 15 times and make little adjustments to get that, lol)

How did you go about getting an exact scale? I got it close at least this time.

Quote

The model is less wide and more deep than the voxel.

I will change the chest. I wanted to work on the skin for it too, just a few small tweaks on the side of the lid. That's what I get for working off of a picture.

[Kyanos]

That was surprisingly easy. Blender let me change each frame simultaneously, so it was trial and error a few times. Changed the scale too, smaller.

// CHEST MODEL BY DREK
model "misc/chest/chest.md3" {
scale 16.5 shade 0 zadd -0.1
skin { pal 0 surface 0 file "misc/chest/Chest.png" }
skin { pal 0 surface 1 file "misc/chest/Chest.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 337 flags 0 }
frame { name "FRAME2" tile0 342 tile1 346 }
anim  { frame0 "FRAME2" frame1 "FRAME14" fps 12 flags 1 }
}

 chest.zip (11.43K)
Number of downloads: 928

[Danukem]

Great! Now I need to make a code adjustment. It's strange how you get the item from the chest when it is only starting to open, so I will add a delay to allow for the animation.

[Plagman]

DeeperThought, on 03 September 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

The correct scale for it is 14.77 (I had to fire up mapster about 15 times and make little adjustments to get that, lol)

Someone hasn't heard of r_pr_overridemodelscale

[Plagman]

That makes me realize it should probably all documented somewhere. I was kind of expecting people to put it up on the Wiki as it would get added, but that's probably wishful thinking. Sorry you had to deal with that crap, I implemented all these helper cvars specifically so that one would never have to exit the game to mess with DEF values, since it's so painful.

[Kyanos]

I made my version of the broken ladder.

Micky, I borrowed your map for some testing. I hope you don't mind me posting this pic.
 3561-ladder.zip (1.36MB)
Number of downloads: 900

// LADDER MODEL BY DREK
model "misc/ladders/3561-ladder.md3 " {
scale 14.77 shade 0 //
skin { pal 0 file "misc/ladders/3561-ladderskin.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3561 flags 0 }
}

[Danukem]

I really like it, but I'm not sure if it will work as a replacement for the sprite. The bones are huge, for one thing. I guess I'll have to try it and see.

[Mark]

I should have checked the forums earlier. I was hoping to offer my changes to Drek's ladder skin before he made the broken one. I actually had this done about 3 or 4 hours ago but didn't get a chance to post until now because I was busy fixing my brother's computer.

I don't know if its actually better or not but since I already finished it I'll post a pic.

I also noticed his skin was a large 1024 x 1024 This one is 256 x 256 I never looked at the broken ladder sprite. Bones and leather to fix it. Cool.

[Kyanos]

Marked, on 04 September 2011 - 03:41 PM, said:

I should have checked the forums earlier. I was hoping to offer my changes to Drek's ladder skin before he made the broken one. I actually had this done about 3 or 4 hours ago but didn't get a chance to post until now because I was busy fixing my brother's computer.

I don't know if its actually better or not but since I already finished it I'll post a pic.

I also noticed his skin was a large 1024 x 1024 This one is 256 x 256 I never looked at the broken ladder sprite. Bones and leather to fix it. Cool.

Did you do a new UV map for that skin, or does it work for my md3? If so we can try to work it into the broken ladder. I made the first skin that size knowing I needed more space for the next one, I wanted to be able to easily change things after the fact between both. I like yours better, post it and I will work it into the other ladder, or just try it yourself, it should be just cut and paste.

DeeperThought, on 04 September 2011 - 03:21 PM, said:

I really like it, but I'm not sure if it will work as a replacement for the sprite. The bones are huge, for one thing. I guess I'll have to try it and see.

Can you find a spot where anyone has previously used the broken ladder sprite. I looked but didn't come across it.

[Kyanos]

I am starting tiles 3821 and 3825 stick fences.

[Danukem]

Drek, on 04 September 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Can you find a spot where anyone has previously used the broken ladder sprite. I looked but didn't come across it.

I saw it in a screenshot that Norvak posted for that map he was working on with the boulder chase. That's the only place I have seen it used.

[Mark]

Drek: For the ladder I had to re-do the UV map to get the new skin on. So if we use it I'll include the model and skin.

The barrels are close to being finished. My program doesn't do a real good job of wrapping a texture around circular objects. Lots of minor tweaking and alignment were needed.

ADDED: I also finished the gold chair. It has the blue cushions for palette changes.

[Kyanos]

DeeperThought, on 04 September 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

I saw it in a screenshot that Norvak posted for that map he was working on with the boulder chase. That's the only place I have seen it used.

Well, take a look at it in game and let me know if it will replace the sprite. I can do something different, or make some tweaks. I would rather leave that one as is and start from scratch on replacing the sprite, if you want something closer to the original.

@Marked, the barrels are looking good.

[Mark]

This weekend I should also have goblets 1027-1029 made. Whatever models I have ready by Monday evening I will put together in a zip file and upload it. I'm guessing it will be at least 6 items.

[Danukem]

Marked, on 04 September 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

This weekend I should also have goblets 1027-1029 made. Whatever models I have ready by Monday evening I will put together in a zip file and upload it. I'm guessing it will be at least 6 items.

IMHO goblets belong in the category of small sprites that don't need to be models unless we are making an HRP. In other words I have no objection to them but I consider them a very low priority right now. An example of a high priority model would be the POWERPOD (tile 105) which I would like to see remade as a power gem or power crystal, and another model as a housing for it. Those are used a lot and the art for them doesn't go very well with the medieval theme, so a model that fits better would be much appreciated.

[Mark]

A single processed crystal with smooth facets or ....

With a glowing animation?

I guess I chose the goblets because they have a lot of use in my map.

ADDED: I was looking around for tile 105 in the maps and in the first one I see it being used a lot as a flat sprite over another flat sprite and in some cases mounted on another flat sprite. Making it a model could cause problems.