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Models thread

User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#1

It's not an accident that I put this thread in the public forum. I see no reason to make it a secret.

We can use models, as long as they look good alongside the 8-bit assets and we maintain 8-bit compatibility by having equivalent sprites or voxels on the same tile numbers. I know how to use poly2vox to make voxels from models now, so that shouldn't be a problem.

So far we have models for the boulder and a chair, thanks to Marked.

Here I will begin to list other tiles for which models would be good. This is a long term project, of course. In the very long run, if there is an HRP, then just about any sprite will need a model.

-337, treasure chest. I like the way the voxel looks, but voxels don't work in Polymer, so we need a model for it. I wonder if Cage has the model.
-105, POWERPOD Let's remake this into a magical power GEM
-491, explosive barrel. Maybe I should check the HRP and see what's in there...
-3341, rising platform
-Statues
-Lights without flames (cuz modeled flames look bad)
-Fences and planks of wood, because they will look better with some depth
-Any prop that seems important, and does not look very good as a sprite.
-New stuff (like pews) that we have no sprites for and that needs to be 3 dimensional.

All the complex organic type stuff, like monsters and trees, should not be attempted yet imo. That would be for an HRP. Also keep in mind that groups of similar tiles need to be released together. The pickup items, for example, are an all-or-nothing proposition. Either we have models for all of them, or none of them. It wouldn't look right to have half of them be models and half sprites. Of course they can't all be made simultaneously, what I mean is that they would not be included in an official release until all of them were done.

I am aware that there is a (at least one) Doom HRP and a Hexen HRP, and that WGR2 uses a lot of stuff from those games. I'm not enthusiastic about ripping stuff from those HRPs at this point. Legal issues aside, there might be a clash of styles. Also, from what I have seen of the monster models in the Hexen HRP, they look horrible (the 8-bit sprites look much better). And we aren't trying to get models for monsters yet anyway. A better strategy would be to make new models that redesign the monsters and other stuff enough so that it doesn't look ripped from those games. But frankly that's a pretty tall order and I doubt it will ever happen.
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User is offline   Tetsuo 

#2

The models for the Doom HRP look terrible too and I'd rather run the 8-bit sprites there as well which says something because I don't mind the models in the Duke3D HRP. That is unless they've released a new set that I don't know about. The last set I saw where practically the same ones from that old Doom TC for Quake back in the day. BTW I know it may just be me but I dislike chunky voxel models. But don't take that personal you can do whatever you like.. carry on. :lol:

This post has been edited by Tetsuo: 26 August 2011 - 10:27 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#3

I'm posting here now instead of the other thread.

Here is a floor torch and a wooden bench that can also be used for Norvak's church pew request.

I have a lot more already made but I have to decide which ones to release and which ones to keep for my "to be released someday I hope" Graveyard TC.

I'll churn out a few more this weekend.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: bench.jpg

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by Marked: 26 August 2011 - 06:03 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#4

Great, I will be sure to get those processed soon.

In other news, Drek made a model for the chest, complete with an opening animation. He just needs to make an adjustment to the model and then I can include it.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#5

Well share and share alike.
I made the treasure chest today.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6033/chestrender.th.jpg


It is has 13 frames of opening animation.
[attachment=nevermind just read DT's post. :lol:

This post has been edited by Drek: 26 August 2011 - 06:16 PM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#6

View PostMarked, on 26 August 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'm posting here now instead of the other thread.

Here is a floor torch and a wooden bench that can also be used for Norvak's church pew request.

I have a lot more already made but I have to decide which ones to release and which ones to keep for my "to be released someday I hope" Graveyard TC.

I'll churn out a few more this weekend.

Hey, it looks really good, thanks Marked!
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#7

We are going to need a clipshape map, at least for the pew. Anyone know how to make those? I can figure it out if no one else has done it before.
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#8

No idea how. When needed,not too often, I just placed blocking sprites or made a sector around the model and just blocked it's walls. Lazy I know. :lol:

Since there is more than one modeler, maybe we'll have to co-ordinate so we don't duplicate each other;s stuff.

This post has been edited by Marked: 26 August 2011 - 06:51 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#9

View PostMarked, on 26 August 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

Since there is more than one modeler, maybe we'll have to co-ordinate so we don't duplicate each other;s stuff.


Indeed. I didn't know that Drek was going to make anything for WGR2 until he sent me the chest. If he plans on making more stuff, I'm sure he'll let us know. :lol: Then I will admit him to the secret area, lol.
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#10

Be sure he has the latest decoder ring and knows the secret handshake.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#11

View PostDeeperThought, on 26 August 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

Indeed. I didn't know that Drek was going to make anything for WGR2 until he sent me the chest. If he plans on making more stuff, I'm sure he'll let us know. :lol: Then I will admit him to the secret area, lol.

Ya I would like to do some more models for this. I was going to openly offer to do some modelling on the forum. At least here I know people will get to see my work in game.

Here is the chest.
Attached File  chest.zip (213.49K)
Number of downloads: 427
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User is offline   Photonic 

#12

View PostMarked, on 26 August 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

Be sure he has the latest decoder ring and knows the secret handshake.

:lol:
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#13

That torch model looks like it could be used for pillars as well as torches. I noticed a small flaw: when you look at it from the top, some of the faces in the cup part are missing, making a see-through portion.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#14

Here is an update that puts the pew and floor torch models in game. Note that for this to work, you have to have the latest unofficial update first, which is only available in the private forum. I am mainly posting this for Marked so he can see his models in game. I made voxels for them as well, which are already included (you won't see them unless using software mode).

I took the liberty of adjusting the skins a bit. Feel free to re-adjust them or use the original ones. The pew skin was very rich and saturated, which I felt was a bit much and made it not work with different pals very well. So I de-saturated it somewhat. The torch skin was very monochrome, so I made part of it look kind of whitish.

Tile numbers:

Pew - 7424
Torch - 7425


^So the plan is to put new models in that tile range. If it's for an existing sprite, then of course it goes on whatever tile the sprite is on. I consider the torch model to be new, and not a replacement for the similar looking sprite, because the sprite has a flame built into it. With the model, if you want a fire on it you will have to put a separate fire sprite on top of it.


Apparently, the fires are hardcoded to fall, so I'll have to make new fire actors that will stay on top of the torch.

Attached File(s)


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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#15

The top of the torch was covered with the flame sprite so I never really noticed the empty spot much. I can try to cover it if you want.

This post has been edited by Marked: 27 August 2011 - 04:20 AM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#16

View PostMarked, on 27 August 2011 - 04:19 AM, said:

The top of the torch was covered with the flame sprite so I never really noticed the empty spot much. I can try to cover it if you want.


Nah, it doesn't matter.
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#17

Here is a simple pillar model. They are handy to have around the castle. :lol:

EDIT: After uploading I see i included the 512 x 512 skin instead of something smaller.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: pillar.jpg

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by Marked: 27 August 2011 - 02:03 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#18

I'm going by memory. I think I saw this one in the game. If not, oh well. Maybe its still useful to somebody.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: lanternmodel.jpg

Attached File(s)


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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#19

View PostMarked, on 27 August 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'm going by memory. I think I saw this one in the game. If not, oh well. Maybe its still useful to somebody.


Yes, it is tile 3863. If the model is going to replace that, it needs to have a light inside. The sprite has a blue flame in there. It's not practical to put flame sprites inside of the model.

In this case I think you can get by without a flame animation. If you just put a bluish glass in the middle with a glowmap, that might be good enough, although I'm not sure. If you could make it look like something is flickering behind the glass, that would be even better.
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#20

Yes and it also had many pal variants in the different levels that would need to be added.
Looks great BTW! :lol:
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User is offline   Photonic 

#21

Marked, as a suggestion this could be done fairly easily if you add the "light/glass" as a second surface with its own skin. Then make as many small skins as needed for different color glass. DT can code the pal to each skin with the rest staying as is.

This post has been edited by Drek: 27 August 2011 - 05:24 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#22

View PostDrek, on 27 August 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Marked, as a suggestion this could be done fairly easily if you add the "light/glass" as a second surface with its own skin. Then make as many small skins as needed for different color glass. DT can code the pal to each skin with the rest staying as is.


That's a good suggestion, but we have a problem that I need to sort out. The problem is that I have tints defined on a lot of the pals, so that the font take various colors. But those tints also go on models and skies. We really don't want entire models to be tinted (e.g. when you use pal 10) because that's not the way the 8-bit art works. EDIT: I think I can just move tints 10-23 to some unused pal slots and then adjust the hud code to use the new pals, so they won't be seen on models.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#23

The more work done on models, the more obstacles like this are likely to crop up. Map hacks for existing levels might just be the simpler alternative. I thought it best to put this out early before too many fixes are attempted.
EDIT: some things you want models for, like statues, are view aligned. This alone will create some issues.

This post has been edited by Drek: 27 August 2011 - 06:07 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#24

View PostDrek, on 27 August 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

The more work done on models, the more obstacles like this are likely to crop up. Map hacks for existing levels might just be the simpler alternative. I thought it best to put this out early before too many fixes are attempted.
EDIT: some things you want models for, like statues, are view aligned. This alone will create some issues.


Nah, it won't be a big problem. As I said in the edit, I can just move those tints to unused pal slots and adjust some code.
And it makes no sense to do maphacks when the maps can simply be edited directly. If a statue is facing the wrong way, I'll just turn it. There really aren't that many statues anyway (the monster statues don't count, since they are actually monsters and models aren't being made for those).
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#25

I just tested out the lantern model with an animated flame placed inside the cage portion. It works fine with no clipping in Polymost or Polymer. Is there another reason you mentioned not wanting to do this?

And I see my memory was not perfect. I went into Mapster to see what the sprite looked like. I'll have to tweak the model body a little for a better look.

This post has been edited by Marked: 27 August 2011 - 06:47 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#26

View PostMarked, on 27 August 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

I just tested out the lantern model with an animated flame placed inside the cage portion. It works fine with no clipping in Polymost or Polymer. Is there another reason you mentioned not wanting to do this?


Yes. There is a sprite that the model could replace, but only if the model has its own light. The sprite is used in the maps, and we aren't going to put fire sprites in the lamp sprites in the existing maps because then it would mess up 8-bit mode, and it would also not look right because the lamps can be of various pals (which don't work well on fire). But if the model is not going to replace the sprite, then it doesn't matter.

There's nothing wrong with having two versions of the model, one with a light inside of it and one without. The one without can be used as you are using it now, by placing a separate fire inside. If you don't want to do the other version, that's fine, we just won't use the model to replace the sprite.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#27

I am going to go ahead and start on fences and planks. Also, if you don't object Marked, I can try to add the lights and stuff to your lamp.
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#28

Marked also made an attempt of the rising sprite platform in my map thread, and it looks like you missed it: http://forums.duke4....post__p__105065
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#29

View PostMicky C, on 27 August 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

Marked also made an attempt of the rising sprite platform in my map thread, and it looks like you missed it: http://forums.duke4....post__p__105065


Yeah I did miss that, but, looking at it now I see that it has no skin. I'll just wait until there is a finished version, I guess.
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#30

DT: There is no skin attached to the md3 file because I used the original platform tile 3894 as it's skin.

Drek: Go ahead and see what you can do with the lantern. Here is a second version I was working on. It uses the same skin as the first. Use either one or start from scratch. Whatever will work out best.

Attached File(s)



This post has been edited by Marked: 27 August 2011 - 09:40 PM

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