[Danukem]

Marked, on 27 August 2011 - 09:34 PM, said:

DT: There is no skin attached to the md3 file because I used the original platform tile 3894 as it's skin.

Now I'm really confused

1. I didn't know that 8-bit art tiles could be specified as skins. What would the def look like in this case?
2. The rising platform is tile 3341, which is a 64x64 tile that looks like a skull against a reddish round stained glassish backdrop.

[Kyanos]

Marked, I will try that someday soon. I've never added light to a model so we will see what happens.

I have started on the chainlink fences tiles 3652 to 3656. All WIP but it's a cool concept I wanted to share.

It's skin is based off the original sprite (I doubled the size) I just had to make my UV unwrap fit the picture. I also made the chainlink section from a flat surface and added true transparency to the skin. This one model should be able to replace all 4 sprites.
Edit: It's late here and I can't count, good night.

[Mark]

DT: It's my fault. I loaded up Micky's map and looked around for a rising platform. I wrongly assumed the tile he used on the platform sector itself was what was being used as the lift. It happened to be 3894 so thats what I used. DUH.

I'll look into it tomorrow.

DREK: I haven't tried it yet but the only way I know how to light it up is to put a flat verticle plane, either 1or 2, inside the model. Then in the modeling program load each flame frame and save it. Then through the def's have that plane display the flame animation tiles. Or as mentioned before create a few frames of colored glass animation instead of a flame.

[Danukem]

Marked, on 27 August 2011 - 10:38 PM, said:

I'll look into it tomorrow.

When you do, place a PLATUPSPAWNER (tile 3345) in your map and check in game to see what it does. Seeing the platforms rise might give you some inspiration. The skull tile being used for the platforms now is nothing special; it was just the best I could find at the time.

[Kyanos]

Hey guys, the fence model is coming along nicely. I managed to scale it properly and used zadd to set the height. The problem I am having now is that it appears too far in front of the sprite. You can walk through it then hit the blocking wall. Is there a yadd or xadd, I couldn't get it. Or is there something I can do while exporting to fix this. I'm at a loss on this now. I figured it out.
Here is the model and first skin.

model "misc/fences/fences.md3 " {
scale 17.8 shade 0 zadd 9
skin { pal 0 file "misc/fences/fence1.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3652 flags 0 }
}

[Danukem]

Here's another couple of shots for comparison.

You have made a lot of progress on it, but I would say it still needs work, both in the model and skin. I hope you aren't annoyed if I list the things that seem to need changing; you may be aware of them already. Making the wood color and texture similar to the original sprite is important, I think. Notice how in the sprite, the grain runs vertically on the vertical part of the wood, and changes to horizontal on the horizontal part of the wood, and of course it is brown not yellow. As for the model, I think it is too thick right now, I would say about half that thickness would be good. Also, the points on the spikes seem to stick out too far on the sides, especially those square parts in the middle of the spikes; the squares seem too prominent. This next may seem like a nitpick, but notice how the wires in the mesh cross each other differently in the original sprite. In your version they are wrapped around each other like in a modern fence, while in the sprite they seem to be just laying on top of each other.

Well I hope that wasn't too much feedback for what was only a wip screen. Keep up the good work.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Kyanos]

Early feedback is why I posted. Thank you.

[Kyanos]

OK so I took your suggestions very literally and made the frame/links of my skin out of the original sprite. I think it will fit in very well with WGR as it sits now, and the UVmap is simple enough to make it more high res later if needed. I also changed the spikes to be less prominent, and thinned the whole thing down. I am happy with it except maybe the coloring on the spikes. Let me know what you think when you get a chance.

Oh, and I deleted the zadd line from the def. I figured out how to make my md3s come out where I want them. This blender to duke relationship is tricky at best, but I am learning much by making models for WGR. Thanks again for the opportunity.

[Danukem]

Wow, that is really a lot better, and it looks nice in game, too.

There is only one remaining problem and that is the discrepancy between the look of the modeled spikes and the look of the simple criss-cross wire texture. The wires are obviously just a low-res texture that is pasted on the side of the model. I understand why you can't model them, because that part of the sprite has a different design with every variation, plus it would be too many polygons. So I suggest just making a better skin where the wires are higher definition and the wires and spikes look like they are of the same type of metal. Also if the model had a normal map, it could make the wires look more 3D, right? But I think the model itself is fine, now.

[Danukem]

I noticed from the regular forum that you are working on a normal map!

[Kyanos]

I had to stop working on the chainlink texture it was driving me nuts I made a skin, normal, and detail, for the third fence, tile 3654. I made another small adjustment on the model itself, the plane that gets the different fence texture defined to it was off slightly. Normals and details are the key to very good low poly models, I am glad you suggested I do it.

model "misc/fences/fences.md3 " {
scale 17.8 shade 0 
skin { pal 0 file "misc/fences/fence3.png" }
normal {file "misc/fences/fence3_n.png" }
detail {file "misc/fences/fence3_d.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3654 flags 0 }
}

I will easily be able to make the rest of the skins now. I have a texture with the frame empty that I can just paste over whatever I want inside.
Edit: Now I have to make a normal for the chest too.

[Danukem]

Some problems:

-Detail textures are supposed to be repeating patterns that add extra detail, such as little scratches on wood or little thread lines on fabric or something like that. Take a look in the HRP and see how they are used. To make a long story short, we do not need detail textures for these models.

-The normal map is broken (you know that already). Also, I don't know how feasible this is, but I was hoping that the normal map would be for the wire part of the fences (the criss crossing pattern) to make them look 3D.

-All textures on the interior of the fence shimmer as the player is moving, then they settle down after a moment. Apparently it's because you can see the texture from the other side (you are seeing both sides of the fence) and it isn't matching up, and the two are clashing with each other. It's not as noticeable with the first skin because it has such a regular pattern.

-The pure white pixels in the spike part of the skin should be eliminated.

-When using the second skin (the vines without the devil head) the spikes are pink and you can see little spikes on them. It's like the scale on the spike part of the skin got thrown off.

[Kyanos]

Ya obviously I need to figure out all this normals shit. I will get it, I need to make my own in blender, not cheat and use a program. Also I never liked the white on the spikes either, I will change the white pixels to shades of grey.

DeeperThought, on 31 August 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

-When using the second skin (the vines without the devil head) the spikes are pink and you can see little spikes on them. It's like the scale on the spike part of the skin got thrown off.

About this, I didn't include this skin with the latest download. If it's a skin that came from one of my earlier versions just delete it, it's outdated. If you just extracted the tile yourself that won't work, I use the tile as a base in photoshop then make adjustments. Try this skin for that tile. And be sure you are using the md3 from my last post here.

Quote

-All textures on the interior of the fence shimmer as the player is moving, then they settle down after a moment. Apparently it's because you can see the texture from the other side (you are seeing both sides of the fence) and it isn't matching up, and the two are clashing with each other. It's not as noticeable with the first skin because it has such a regular pattern.

I hope it's my faulty normal map causing this, both sides are "EXACTLY" the same.

[Danukem]

Drek, on 01 September 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

I hope it's my faulty normal map causing this, both sides are "EXACTLY" the same.

It happens on all of them and the normal map is only defined for the third skin.

[Danukem]

I did some more testing. The shimmering bug only happens in Polymer. It happens regardless of whether the normal is being used, so the normal is not causing it. Apparently it is a Polymer glitch.

[Mark]

It was clipping ( shimmering ) in my model program. It was an easy fix. I highlighted the flat front plane in the box and moved it a very small amount forward until the clipping stopped. I did not try it in game but I assume this solved the problem.

[Kyanos]

Marked, on 01 September 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

It was clipping ( shimmering ) in my model program. It was an easy fix. I highlighted the flat front plane in the box and moved it a very small amount forward until the clipping stopped. I did not try it in game but I assume this solved the problem.

You know something, that's what I thought it was too. Turns out there really is a glitch with polymer. Look at these screens closely. Polymer shows both planes of the model, even though they face opposite directions.

Here is the 1sided version of the md3, in polymost it looks empty from 1 side with texture from the other. With polymer I can see texture through both sides.
 fences1sided.zip (338.34K)
Number of downloads: 953

[Mark]

I see what you mean now. The model I was referring to was the one with the demon face on it. There was no transparency on it, just the clipping.

I guess you will have to make a single panel for fences with transparencies.

[Kyanos]

Marked, on 01 September 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

I see what you mean now. The model I was referring to was the one with the demon face on it. There was no transparency on it, just the clipping.

I never noticed it too much until I made this skin. The other two are pretty close to symmetrical so they didn't stand out as bad. And I don't think the transparency will show up in your model program. It doesn't in blender, only Eduke.

Edit: Polymost only one way mirrors??? Could be pretty cool in the right map.

[Danukem]

DeeperThought, on 31 August 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

-All textures on the interior of the fence shimmer as the player is moving, then they settle down after a moment. Apparently it's because you can see the texture from the other side (you are seeing both sides of the fence) and it isn't matching up, and the two are clashing with each other. It's not as noticeable with the first skin because it has such a regular pattern.

That's what I was saying yesterday, guys.

I hope it's not too hard to fix.

[Kyanos]

Here is a zip with all five skins. Still WIP, I am going to throw this on the backburner for now. Wait and see what happens with polymer, if it won't work I will have to make a model for each sprite.
 skins.zip (610.69K)
Number of downloads: 967
Any suggestions on a sprite that is very common, I'm looking for something more complex than this fence, with less technical coding, just make a model. I am leaning toward the chandelier in mickys map.

[Danukem]

Drek, on 02 September 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

Any suggestions on a sprite that is very common, I'm looking for something more complex than this fence, with less technical coding, just make a model. I am leaning toward the chandelier in mickys map.

And how are you going to do the flames on the candles? That sounds very difficult to me. Give me some time and I will make some suggestions for easier models that will have a big impact.

[Danukem]

I just checked the new fence skins in game and they are very nice. Unfortunately, they still warp in Polymer and then settle down when the player is not moving. Since they look perfectly fine in Polymost, and since there are no normal maps or anything like that to screw them up, I suspect it is a problem with Polymer. We can keep using these for now, and hopefully the glitch will be fixed before the next release.

As for model suggestions, how about about the POWERPOD? (tile 105)

I suggest making it into a power gem, then we can have a separate model for the gem socket. I think that would fit the theme of WGR2 better than what we are currently using. Maps that use it would require some minor adjustment, but that won't be difficult.

Another good thing to have models for is ladders. There are several ladder sprites, but the one used most is 3560. Also 3561 is a damage version of it.

[Kyanos]

Sounds good to me. I can make a gem with one basic object. It will look like a big diamond. Does that sound like what you are looking for? Or should I encase it in something? The ladder is something I am more in the mood for today, I will try it next.

[Mark]

possible models

pickup items---- I know, an all or nothing thing

fence 7091 doorway 3650 window 3765 flagpole 3757 chain 3673 gravestones 3643,44,45

blacksmith sign 1051 bank sign 1050 store sign 1049 tavern sign 1052 pail 1026 broom 1025 sack 1044

goblets 1027-29 frying pan 1030 book 1064, 3768 swords and shields 2457,2502,3900 ladder 3507,3560,61

barrel 491 bars 1174 grates 7005,4042,4139 wood fence 3925,3659 banners 4012 skeleton 4028 gold coin piles

The forum changed the layout of how I typed it in so everything runs together instead of spaced apart properly.

[Kyanos]

Nice list, I will commit to tiles 3560 and 3561 for now.

[Kyanos]

Here is the easier ladder.  ladders.zip (1.18MB)
Number of downloads: 900

model "misc/ladders/3560-ladder.md3 " {
scale 9 shade 0
skin { pal 0 file "misc/ladders/3560-ladderskin.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3560 flags 0 }
}

I am making a model collection

[Danukem]

Nice job!

The correct model scale is actually 5.58

Ladder sprites are usually placed end to end, so the scale is especially important in this case (if it's wrong, then the models will either be overlapping, or they won't touch). There's only one small flaw with the model skin, and that is that it doesn't tile. I mean the end of the texture at the bottom of the ladder does not match up with the beginning of the texture at the top of the ladder, so when they are put end to end, you can see where one ends and the other begins. That's pretty minor, though.

[Mark]

The scale for the ladder needs to be reduced to about 5.6-5.7 to match the sprite. I also added some dark smudges to the texture on my copy. It looked a little too clean.

[Danukem]

Marked, on 02 September 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

The scale for the ladder needs to be reduced to about 5.6-5.7 to match the sprite. I also added some dark smudges to the texture on my copy. It looked a little too clean.

5.58 matches exactly -- see my post above

Also if you can fix the texture so that it tiles (again, see my post) that would be good