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Models thread

User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#121

I smacked my head when I first heard we could add models. At the time I was under the impression that only existing WGR resources were going to be used.There were a bunch of them originally in my map that got removed and replaced with sprites and sector based versions when I was converting it over. Columns, fences, statues,gates, arches, table,pillows, gravestones, skeletons, trees, plants, grass, the floor torches and one of the fences we used. Lots of other custom artwork. There are 2 main reasons I didn't mention all of them. Some I'm keeping to myself until I eventually finish my Graveyard TC and they are all textured high res to fit in with the HRP stuff.

I didn't mention my fence first because it did not have the looks of the sprite version.BTW, my old buddy Chicken actually made the fence and pillows. It was before I got into modeling stuff myself. I have lots of other models laying around but nothing that would fit in WGR or they are way too high poly count or need textures, etc..

This post has been edited by Marked: 09 September 2011 - 12:30 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#122

View PostMarked, on 09 September 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

I smacked my head when I first heard we could add models. At the time I was under the impression that only existing WGR resources were going to be used.There were a bunch of them originally in my map that got removed and replaced with sprites and sector based versions when I was converting it over.


Don't feel badly about that, because you would have had to remove almost all of them anyway. As you pointed out, most would not fit well in WGR2. Plus, we are not trying to use models for everything, not even close.

Perhaps the best solution for the fence would be if Drek could optimize his model down to about half as many polys. I don't know how hard that would be, though.
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User is offline   Mark 

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#123

Optimizing would be good. I broke the model while doing it, but a quick 5 minute messing around with it brought it down to about 960. The other fences with the panels on the bottom were 2852 polys. Again on the high side if used a lot in a map. The brownish rail fence that I made for the game is a good substitute for the spiked fences in some places in my map. At only 128 polys it will take some of the load off. :lol:
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User is offline   Photonic 

#124

Hey guys, I've just got home and checked the forums. My new job is keeping me very busy :lol:
I realize my modelling really needs improvement. I've barely scratched the surface of what I can do with models, yet my unique form of self education (these forums) has given me quite a head start on learning. I now understand why my models come out with high polys, and realize that I need to put more time into uv layouts and skins. I've not modeled anything in days, but have instead been reading through Blender forums and watching tuts and tweaking things I've already made. I have every intention on going backwards and editing/improving all my models for wgr soon. I will have some stuff to share here by the end of the weekend.

View PostMarked, on 09 September 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Optimizing would be good. I broke the model while doing it, but a quick 5 minute messing around with it brought it down to about 960. The other fences with the panels on the bottom were 2852 polys. Again on the high side if used a lot in a map.

It's those spikes on top. They never should have been in the finished model. It was the first time I tried something like it and it seamed to work, but I knew they had way to many faces. Lots are even hidden, or just plan unnecessary. One of many changes to come to that particular model.

This post has been edited by Drek: 09 September 2011 - 02:01 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#125

I made those same overbuilding mistakes when I started modeling earlier this year. Luckily Teamonster pointed out a few things to me. With proper skins those round poles could look good and round enough with as few as 16 faces.

This post has been edited by Marked: 09 September 2011 - 02:20 PM

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User is offline   Photonic 

#126

View PostMarked, on 09 September 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

I made those same overbuilding mistakes when I started modeling earlier this year. Luckily Teamonster pointed out a few things to me. With proper skins those round poles could look good and round enough with as few as 16 faces.

"overbuilding" That's exactly the word for it. Thanks for passing on Teamonsters kind deed to you, and helping me out here. I truly appreciate it.
32 faces = Blender default value :lol:
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User is offline   Photonic 

#127

I've made a much better version of the spiked fence. Added proper shading to a completely new skin and remade the spikes from scratch. It's cut down to around 600 faces now. I am going to make the interior parts a separate surface that I can then apply a normal to. Here is a pic of just the frame next to the old one.

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#128

Posted Image
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User is offline   Photonic 

#129

LMFAO :lol:
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User is offline   Photonic 

#130

Here is my updated version of the fence set. Tiles 3652 - 3656. I suggest replacing the entire fences folder with this zip. I will be fixing the other two models there next.

New Def Code
Spoiler

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#131

Great! I hope this means we have a new spike model coming as well.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#132

I have a concern about the textures used for the models that I'd like to voice sooner rather than later. I had a look at the ladder model in my map, and it looked like a filter had been applied to the texture to smooth out the pixels. Personally I don't think low res filtered textures look very good, and I always play WGRealms with one of the nearest filtering settings. If people want textures smoothed out they can always use trilinear filtering which is an in-game option.

So is it possible to have textures without filters applied? (Does anyone else feel the same way?) Of course I might be confused, and there's actually no filtering, in which case I don't know what to think. Other than that the model seems pretty good http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dukeaffirmative.gif

This post has been edited by Micky C: 12 September 2011 - 01:30 AM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#133

I agree. The textures should not be blurry. If people want blurry textures they are free to use on of the blurring filters. So if the texture source is low-res, then just leave it looking pixelated. The blurriness does not make it look better, anyway.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#134

View PostMicky C, on 12 September 2011 - 01:30 AM, said:

I have a concern about the textures used for the models that I'd like to voice sooner rather than later. I had a look at the ladder model in my map, and it looked like a filter had been applied to the texture to smooth out the pixels. Personally I don't think low res filtered textures look very good, and I always play WGRealms with one of the nearest filtering settings. If people want textures smoothed out they can always use trilinear filtering which is an in-game option.

So is it possible to have textures without filters applied? (Does anyone else feel the same way?) Of course I might be confused, and there's actually no filtering, in which case I don't know what to think. Other than that the model seems pretty good http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dukeaffirmative.gif

I have the original ladder model. I will make another version of the skin.
Is it just this one model you have concerns with? I appreciate all constructive criticism.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#135

It's mainly the fences, actually. I mean the ones with the spikes on top and the various skins for the different tiles. It looks like they use blurred versions of the 8-bit art for the skins (with the exception of the devil head that you worked on).
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User is offline   Photonic 

#136

View PostDeeperThought, on 12 September 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

It's mainly the fences, actually. I mean the ones with the spikes on top and the various skins for the different tiles. It looks like they use blurred versions of the 8-bit art for the skins (with the exception of the devil head that you worked on).

I made those by cutting the image from the sprite, increased size %300, added a sharpen filter or two. The way the model is set up now we can "fill" the fence with any image we want, as long as the x-y ratio is the same or close. Assign the new image to surface 0.
I tried using the original image cut from the sprite with no changes (except transparency change). It don't look too good.
See for yourself.Attached Image: fence3652.png
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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#137

I think the ladder is an issue of personal preference. After I modded Drek's original skin I think I shrunk it down to 256 x 256 and thought it looked too pixelated so I re-did it a second time with a smoothing shrink function.

I took 4 screenshots of the model in my map under near and trilinear filtering and without that skin's softening it stands out too much for my taste. It may look fine under different circumstances against different backrounds though. In my map it's in front of a blurry bookcase and blends in well. See pic, near linear filtering on.

I guess I still haven't gotten totally used to lower res skinning after doing so much in HRP resolutions. We'll see what Drek comes up with.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: duke0002.jpg


This post has been edited by Marked: 12 September 2011 - 03:29 PM

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#138

View PostDrek, on 12 September 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

I made those by cutting the image from the sprite, increased size %300, added a sharpen filter or two. The way the model is set up now we can "fill" the fence with any image we want, as long as the x-y ratio is the same or close. Assign the new image to surface 0.
I tried using the original image cut from the sprite with no changes (except transparency change). It don't look too good.
See for yourself.Attachment fence3652.png


The idea is not to use the original texture but to use something higher definition that is similar to and would look good in place of the original texture. It's good to know we can put any texture we want on surface 0.
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User is offline   Micky C 

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#139

View PostMarked, on 12 September 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

I think the ladder is an issue of personal preference. After I modded Drek's original skin I think I shrunk it down to 256 x 256 and thought it looked too pixelated so I re-did it a second time with a smoothing shrink function.

I took 4 screenshots of the model in my map under near and trilinear filtering and without that skin's softening it stands out too much for my taste. It may look fine under different circumstances against different backrounds though. In my map it's in front of a blurry bookcase and blends in well. See pic, near linear filtering on.

I guess I still haven't gotten totally used to lower res skinning after doing so much in HRP resolutions. We'll see what Drek comes up with.


I was referring to the other ladder model (which seems very out of place in my map now), I haven't seen the one you posted in-game yet (perhaps it would suit better), but IMO generally speaking the models should not have filters applied in an 8-bit TC. Your chair model is a good example of a nice skin with no filters.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#140

View PostMicky C, on 13 September 2011 - 04:08 AM, said:

I was referring to the other ladder model (which seems very out of place in my map now)


That one was replaced by the new one a while ago...
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User is offline   Photonic 

#141

Here is my best on the ladder model.
Attached File  3560-ladder.zip (202.27K)
Number of downloads: 242
// LADDER MODEL BY DREK
model "misc/ladders/3560-ladder.md3 " {
scale 14.77 shade 0 
skin { pal 0 file "misc/ladders/3560-ladderskin.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3560 flags 0 }
}

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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#142

Any progress on the power gem model?
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User is offline   Photonic 

#143

View PostDeeperThought, on 15 September 2011 - 02:39 PM, said:

Any progress on the power gem model?

No, I hit a creative block with modelling. I'm taking a few days away from it and practicing code. I will make something soon though. I don't think I can stay away from modelling for long, I'm hooked :woot:
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#144

It's great to see diablo is getting used :woot: I use it for my mod too ( sounds ).
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User is offline   Stabs 

#145

Any chance of getting the quake 3 models in, skulls and stuff with glowmaps for eyes and stuff i can use as credible lightsources?
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User is offline   Photonic 

#146

@DanM : I can see what I can make with a glow map in it for you. I have a question though about the fence model I've made, tile 3652. I saw the sprite used in you screenshot on the other thread. I like the way the shadows come through it and was wondering if the same happens when using my model. That center portion is made from a plane with the transparency coming from the skin, I don't know if it will cast a shadow, which may ruin the sweetness of your map. The reason I ask is because I am making some better skins (higher res) and it may be a waste of time. I may need to actually model the inside of that fence to cast shadows.

Added : I may have missed something, but I don't think I can make a model that emits light in Eduke. I think you may need to add SE lights for things that aren't hardcoded like fire. I may be wrong though :woot:

Here is a pic of the new skins, I also redid the frame. It didn't seam right before when I came across it in one of WGs maps. It's now a bit darker and less detailed.
Attached Image: duke0000.png
Attached Image: fence3653.png
@DT : I know you don't want the modern interlinked fence. I used it, well because I had it and it was easy to tweak, I will make one that fits the game. What do you think of the new vines?

This post has been edited by Drek: 18 September 2011 - 10:20 AM

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User is offline   Plagman 

  • Former VP of Media Operations

#147

Can you try my latest change and confirm that the problem you had with the shimmering fence model is now resolved?
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User is offline   Photonic 

#148

Yes, it's fixed. Thanks Plagman!!
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User is offline   Photonic 

#149

A quick update here. I have a new chest model with the shading fixed inside. I don't know if anyone else noticed but some shadows were flipped.
Uses same def code : Attached File  chest.zip (238.18K)
Number of downloads: 212
I have also completed a new model for the spikes, tile 3905.
// SPIKES MODEL BY DREK
model "misc/fences/3905-spikes.md3 " {
scale 6.14 shade 0 zadd 0
skin { pal 0 file "misc/fences/3905-spikes.png" }
frame { name "FRAME1" tile 3905 flags 0 }
}

Attached File  spikes.zip (342.26K)
Number of downloads: 216

I have something of a powergem on the go. What do you all think of it?
Attached Image: duke0001.pngAttached Image: duke0003.png
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#150

I don't have WGR2 on the computer I am using now, so I can only comment based on the screenshots.

I love your chest model, and I'm glad to see it is even better now. I'm looking forward to seeing the improved spikes, but you didn't include a screen of it.

The power gem model doesn't look too bad in the far away shot, but the closer shot looks pretty bad. It's hard for me to evaluate it properly because I hate the skin (and I know the skin is just temporary). Would it be possible to make the skin just plain bluish white, with thin black lines along the faces defining the edges?
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