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360 Demo Leaked? Do not support piracy!

User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#511

View PostFox, on 24 May 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:


As I said before, piracy is very different from stealing. What if instead of I giving the defintiion of the words, I give a pratical example? Let's see... what was this thread about? Oh yeah, leaked demo.

For all matter, this leaked demo IS piracy, since it perfectly match the term of piracy (not to be confused with "sea piracy") which is copyright infringement. How exactly downloading a demo that would be free anyway compares to taking grosseries without paying?


The discussion was about piracy in general, even if the demo is what got the topic going.

Quote

Does that matter, if they are legally/morally reprehensible?


Laws ought to respect individual liberties. Things shouldn't be outlawed merely because some people find them objectionable.

This post has been edited by Mikko_Sandt: 25 May 2011 - 06:13 AM

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#512

View PostFox, on 24 May 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

Does that matter, if they are legally/morally reprehensible?


Considering this is partially a 1996 game modding-focused community, I wonder, how many over there care if a mod uses Doom-ripped sprites?

I have no idea how many copyright laws some of the mods I have worked have already broken...


I think i know what you mean.

Stealing is taking something away from someone, it's like i am stealing your Xbox 360 and never giving it back.
You have to buy a new one, but i don't, i have yours.

But pirating a game, is downloading a copy of that game.
Only thing is, the owner still has his game, but you also have his game.
Both still happy.

That's how i see it.
Don't get me wrong, piracy is illegal and bad.

This post has been edited by themaniacboy: 25 May 2011 - 02:21 PM

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User is offline   Martin 

#513

This topic has broadened wildly! That's OK, but I'd like to reiterate my point which nobody responded to; Are we really that bothered that a demo was leaked? Especially when the only reason it's "bad" is because Gearbox is attempting to squeeze DNF fans for all they can by selling them a demo that we all should have got for free (you know, like all other demos ever)? I know DNF isn't your average game, but that's the point. Gearbox know this, and know that many of you will pay a premium to have exclusive access to the demo.

I find Gearbox's behaviour on this issue has led me to completely support the piracy of this demo. The whole FAC thing is a total farce.

Also... I HAVE PLAYED DNF! Thank you, piracy! The aforementioned friend with the JTAG 360 (in my last post) downloaded it for me and let me play. According to him, it's actually an early version of the demo that will be coming out. It had some bugs and would crash randomly. Was still cool actually playing DNF, though. I'm not sure why a demo for a game that's been in development for so long should be so buggy, even if it's not the 'final demo'. But whatever, I'm not a programmer. There may be a perfectly-good reason for this. I'll reserve judgement on how the game looks/plays when I get my hands on the retail copy. Still, going by the lack of PS3 media, the shitty 360 beta demo probably still looks better than the final game on PS3 :P
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#514

If a Shopping Center (whith collaboration of government laws) now is charging a fee for breathing inside the establishment, does people who refuse to pay are doing "bad" by "stealing" from the Shopping?

This post has been edited by Fox: 25 May 2011 - 10:50 PM

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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#515

View PostMartin, on 25 May 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

This topic has broadened wildly! That's OK, but I'd like to reiterate my point which nobody responded to; Are we really that bothered that a demo was leaked? Especially when the only reason it's "bad" is because Gearbox is attempting to squeeze DNF fans for all they can by selling them a demo that we all should have got for free (you know, like all other demos ever)? I know DNF isn't your average game, but that's the point. Gearbox know this, and know that many of you will pay a premium to have exclusive access to the demo.

I find Gearbox's behaviour on this issue has led me to completely support the piracy of this demo. The whole FAC thing is a total farce.

Also... I HAVE PLAYED DNF! Thank you, piracy! The aforementioned friend with the JTAG 360 (in my last post) downloaded it for me and let me play. According to him, it's actually an early version of the demo that will be coming out. It had some bugs and would crash randomly. Was still cool actually playing DNF, though. I'm not sure why a demo for a game that's been in development for so long should be so buggy, even if it's not the 'final demo'. But whatever, I'm not a programmer. There may be a perfectly-good reason for this. I'll reserve judgement on how the game looks/plays when I get my hands on the retail copy. Still, going by the lack of PS3 media, the shitty 360 beta demo probably still looks better than the final game on PS3 :P

1. The demo is free....and people can join the FAC to get it a bit sooner is all. Also, any DNF preorder got you a FAC code, not just buying Borderlands GOTY....so you don't have to pay a cent for the FAC demo if you don't want to. If you bought a game you don't like or will ever play(Borderlands) just for the code, then don't expect me to feel pity for you because there are other ways for free to get a code.
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User is offline   Mikko 

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#516

View PostFox, on 25 May 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

If a Shopping Center (whith collaboration of government laws) now is charging a fee for breathing inside the establishment, does people who refuse to pay are doing "bad" by "stealing" from the Shopping?


It takes money to recycle air in the shopping center. People already pay for it, albeit indirectly.
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User is offline   muskydragon 

  • Yatta is a dictator! :)

#517

View PostDN4EVR, on 25 May 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

1. The demo is free....and people can join the FAC to get it a bit sooner is all. Also, any DNF preorder got you a FAC code, not just buying Borderlands GOTY....so you don't have to pay a cent for the FAC demo if you don't want to. If you bought a game you don't like or will ever play(Borderlands) just for the code, then don't expect me to feel pity for you because there are other ways for free to get a code.


LOL! you do fucking realise in order to get a FAC you have to spend money? Seriously wtf are you smoking.. sure you could ask on the internet doesn't mean you will get it.
Also if you like being fucked by companies go ahead and enjoy it.. many people thought they would have got the demo by now by buying the Borderlands game.
Also from the looks of things the demo shows nothing new. (frankly I don't know why gearbox and yatta are acting like China and censoring a fucking demo we have seen 100000 times over already). There plenty of videos of people playing the Pax Demo on youtube you idiots! Plus you don't see much of any new video Gameplay video.

This should fucking worry you. Hell seriously if I was a critic.. go watch some old halo combat evolved videos on youtube.
The gameplay if anything looks just like duke nukem forever but even lacking more then Halo Combat Evolved (Bungie) ever did! I am looking forward to gamespot.com review of this game and showing you actual gameplay video. Maybe Gearbox is hoping people are idiots.. I am just hoping the game doesn't suck.. but with the lack of support and the dictatorship of Gearbox. This will be a hard one to call... So with that.. I am not gonna bash the game...
If you are smart shopper you will probably want to be watching a review of the game on gamespot.com.

Also for future reference. I don't want to hear you bitching on this forum or any other internet place... about getting screwed some day. Karma is a bitch!

This post has been edited by muskydragon: 26 May 2011 - 02:54 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#518

If you're a smart shopper you'll wait another 6 months for the inevitable patches to finish a game. By then you can get it on a discount and know whether or not a game is a good investment if there's a sustainable community with mod tools and a decent multiplayer. Let the impulse buyers test it for you ahead of time.
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#519

View Postmuskydragon, on 26 May 2011 - 02:45 PM, said:

If you are smart shopper you will probably want to be watching a review of the game on gamespot.com.

You totally ruined the post with this last line...
First of all, if you are a smart "shopper", you don't base your shopping decisions on reviews done by big sites such as gamespot, ign, gametrailers and the usual.
If you are a smart person, you will look at all the reviews for a game, including at low profile ones and because you are smart you will also be able to judge the game from trailers, gameplay videos and screenshots.
Almost all of the high profile game reviewers are somebody's kid that got promoted into a high up place just because he's got connections.
Almost none of the reviewers that I've seen on big name sites, have the first fucking clue about gaming and if they do, they certainly don't know shit about old school gaming, they just know modern shitty fps games like cod and lots rpg games like wow...
On top of all this, how could you fucking pick the worst review site out of the worst review sites? Gamespot??? Seriously???
Gamespot has stopped being a decent gaming site since it totally got bough over like 3-5 years ago and all of their gamer reviewers left and either formed their own review sites or changed their profile.

Also calm the fuck down, I've already explained to you why Yatta has to keep leaks censored. You also don't seem want to read the official notice on this forum where Yatta explains exactly why censorship is put in place...

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 26 May 2011 - 03:36 PM

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User is offline   Honza 

#520

View PostMr.Deviance, on 26 May 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

You totally ruined the post with this last line...
First of all, if you are a smart "shopper", you don't base your shopping decisions on reviews done by big sites such as gamespot, ign, gametrailers and the usual.
If you are a smart person, you will look at all the reviews for a game, including at low profile ones and because you are smart you will also be able to judge the game from trailers, gameplay videos and screenshots.
Almost all of the high profile game reviewers are somebody's kid that got promoted into a high up place just because he's got connections.
Almost none of the reviewers that I've seen on big name sites, have the first fucking clue about gaming and if they do, they certainly don't know shit about old school gaming, they just know modern shitty fps games like cod and lots rpg games like wow...
On top of all this, how could you fucking pick the worst review site out of the worst review sites? Gamespot??? Seriously???
Gamespot has stopped being a decent gaming site since it totally got bough over like 3-5 years ago and all of their gamer reviewers left and either formed their own review sites or changed their profile.

Also calm the fuck down, I've already explained to you why Yatta has to keep leaks censored. You also don't seem want to read the official notice on this forum where Yatta explains exactly why censorship is put in place...


I can't agree more. All has been said.
1

User is offline   Martin 

#521

I prefer Eurogamer for my reviews. Lulz at Deviance's rant about 'smart gamers'. Trailers are constructed to make something seem way more awesome than it actually is. Always. Trying to judge a game via a trailer seems pretty stupid to me. The only real way to 'conclude' the value of Game X or Y to you personally is to actually play it. The purpose of a review is to give an account of the reviewer's experience playing the game, and how this compares to other games. You can never truly conclude whether a game is for you with any review. You can only have a better idea whether it is or not. Stop being so 'mightier than thou' all the time, you elitist prick. Otherwise people might start to think that you're compensating.. :P
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User is offline   Camelot 

#522

View Postthemaniacboy, on 25 May 2011 - 02:19 PM, said:

I think i know what you mean.

Stealing is taking something away from someone, it's like i am stealing your Xbox 360 and never giving it back.
You have to buy a new one, but i don't, i have yours.

But pirating a game, is downloading a copy of that game.
Only thing is, the owner still has his game, but you also have his game.
Both still happy.

That's how i see it.
Don't get me wrong, piracy is illegal and bad.



0

#523

View PostMr.Deviance, on 26 May 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

You totally ruined the post with this last line...
First of all, if you are a smart "shopper", you don't base your shopping decisions on reviews done by big sites such as gamespot, ign, gametrailers and the usual.
If you are a smart person, you will look at all the reviews for a game, including at low profile ones and because you are smart you will also be able to judge the game from trailers, gameplay videos and screenshots.
Almost all of the high profile game reviewers are somebody's kid that got promoted into a high up place just because he's got connections.
Almost none of the reviewers that I've seen on big name sites, have the first fucking clue about gaming and if they do, they certainly don't know shit about old school gaming, they just know modern shitty fps games like cod and lots rpg games like wow...
On top of all this, how could you fucking pick the worst review site out of the worst review sites? Gamespot??? Seriously???
Gamespot has stopped being a decent gaming site since it totally got bough over like 3-5 years ago and all of their gamer reviewers left and either formed their own review sites or changed their profile.

Also calm the fuck down, I've already explained to you why Yatta has to keep leaks censored. You also don't seem want to read the official notice on this forum where Yatta explains exactly why censorship is put in place...


Amen.
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User is offline   Raziel 

#524

View PostDN4EVR, on 25 May 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

1. The demo is free....and people can join the FAC to get it a bit sooner is all.

Actually, I think Randy said in his last videos that the demo would be exclusive to FAC members. Most likely cause they fucked up and didn't get the demo out earlier like they should have. Instead, they waited so long the demo ended up leaking online and FAC members only get the demo a week before the game's release. I also suspect the publisher may not want non-Duke fans playing the demo since it may have a bad effect on game sales (yes, I know a whole bunch of people are going the give me shit about this one, but that's how I see it).
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User is offline   zwieback 

#525

i don't give you a -1 for that, but i beg to differ.
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#526

View Postzwieback, on 29 May 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

i don't give you a -1 for that, but i beg to differ.

I won't give him a -1 either but he needs to realize that the demo is going to be seen by everybody no matter if they get it or not.

View PostRaziel, on 28 May 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Actually, I think Randy said in his last videos that the demo would be exclusive to FAC members. Most likely cause they fucked up and didn't get the demo out earlier like they should have. Instead, they waited so long the demo ended up leaking online and FAC members only get the demo a week before the game's release. I also suspect the publisher may not want non-Duke fans playing the demo since it may have a bad effect on game sales (yes, I know a whole bunch of people are going the give me shit about this one, but that's how I see it).

You know that lots of people are going to record their playthrough of the demos in 1080p and put the videos in parts on youtube right?
If other people wouldn't get the demo, they would certainly see it being played on youtube in very high quality.
That will happen and if by a miracle it wouldn't happen I would do it myself and It will still happen.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 29 May 2011 - 11:23 AM

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User is offline   zwieback 

#527

but i got -1 for my comment - mad people here :angry:

i hereby declare to record a 1080p demo walk-through too, if nobody else will do it. the whole "the demo is FAC only, because it sucks" theory is deeply flawed.
4

#528

View Postzwieback, on 29 May 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

but i got -1 for my comment - mad people here :blink:

i hereby declare to record a 1080p demo walk-through too, if nobody else will do it. the whole "the demo is FAC only, because it sucks" theory is deeply flawed.

I am against censorship and I will do it too so there, already 2 people confirmed to do it :angry:
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#529

View PostCamelot, on 27 May 2011 - 06:11 AM, said:




Best reply i could have.

This post has been edited by themaniacboy: 29 May 2011 - 12:24 PM

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User is offline   Hank 

#530

View Postzwieback, on 29 May 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

i hereby declare to record a 1080p demo walk-through too, if nobody else will do it. the whole "the demo is FAC only, because it sucks" theory is deeply flawed.

You are now officially on record. (you can't delete a quoted post) And I'll will watch it. 'cause I ain't no member, so no demo for me. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#531

View Postzwieback, on 29 May 2011 - 12:02 PM, said:

the whole "the demo is FAC only, because it sucks" theory is deeply flawed.

I don't think it's implausible. It's a common strategy to release the game for a small group in order to avoid backfire from the public. However it's usually used in BETA tests (for example disponible only in a specific country).
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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#532

View PostMr.Deviance, on 29 May 2011 - 11:19 AM, said:

I won't give him a -1 either but he needs to realize that the demo is going to be seen by everybody no matter if they get it or not.




I feel a bit bad that the Duke Reloaded team is going to show off LIVE a walkthrough of the demo on June 3rd... So much for First access huh? Well it was to be expected that videos would start pouring on that same day.

This post has been edited by DavoX: 30 May 2011 - 02:06 PM

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#533

View PostDavoX, on 30 May 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

I feel a bit bad that the Duke Reloaded team is going to show off LIVE a walkthrough of the demo on June 3rd... So much for First access huh? Well it was to be expected that videos would start pouring on that same day.

I don't feel bad at all. I am not the kind of person that loves to have exclusive access to everything while teasing everybody else.
I come from a scene where I work with huge teams since many years towards the goal of releasing private stuff for the public free of charge and as fast as possible.
I've always seen the FAC as a place that's supposedly going to allow people that bought borderlands or preordered dnf, to play it's demo earlier, not as a place that allows some people to be cooler than others.
The day this demo gets released I will also see to it that it becomes usable and available for the entire public ASAP.
I've said this before and now I say it again, I am against censorship and I fight it with the heaviest of weapons and with a well structured organization.
I am also against the copyright concept and I fight against it on all fronts.
So don't worry, the playthrough videos of the demo will be the least of things that will come out when the demo gets released.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 30 May 2011 - 02:31 PM

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User is offline   DavoX 

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#534

While I'm sure you could be right about the copyright concept, you also have to think about the people that are allowed to work via this system and the families that need to be fed from all that work :angry:
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#535

View PostDavoX, on 30 May 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

While I'm sure you could be right about the copyright concept, you also have to think about the people that are allowed to work via this system and the families that need to be fed from all that work :angry:

There's an increasing number of governments world wide that are debating the abolishment of copyright laws entirely.
When I say that I am fighting against copyright laws, I am not just a random crazy guy with a stupid idea.
There are many academic papers written on this matter and even social and economical books.

I am not sure how well prepared or interested you are to debate this here, nor how much have you read and researched on this matter but I have realized from my studies that among other things, the abolishment of copyright laws can also promotes social justice.
There have been many political debates over this and without a doubt there will continue to be many more on this hot subject until everybody is going to give in and accept that copyright laws are mostly bad and they almost never bring something good to the table.
But maybe we can talk about this some other time without derailing this topic.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 30 May 2011 - 04:45 PM

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User is offline   DavoX 

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#536

I'm sure something like that would requere massive modifying on a lot of stuff. What I'm saying is that Copyright and such are to be respected TODAY while those changes haven't been made yet.
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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#537

You mean like how China copies foreign products and resells them at extremely low prices worldwide, undermining the rest of our economies? If you get rid of copyright laws you also get rid of the ability of a person to own their invention and make money off it. A world like that will only stagnate when you have no incentive to create.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#538

View PostMad Max RW, on 30 May 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

You mean like how China copies foreign products and resells them at extremely low prices worldwide, undermining the rest of our economies? If you get rid of copyright laws you also get rid of the ability of a person to own their invention and make money off it. A world like that will only stagnate when you have no incentive to create.
As rare as the occasion is, I agree with you completely... a concept proven over and over.

Financial or not, without reward, creativity in the forms we see today would cease to exist. One who creates, understands reward, financial or not. The idealistic artist starves and dies each day.
If someone wishes to create something and give it to the masses, they are completely free to do so today, and some do. Just look at the High Resolution project work on this site! Awesome and "free". ...but for someone to decide that they can give away, copy, or experience my creation for free makes you just another criminal to be stamped out.

Copyright laws have some problems and gray areas... but to think they are not needed is very unwise. I am comfortably versed in this area. Most of the followers of this complex concept of abolishment are NOT mainstream as suggested. I don't care what entity or group is "talking about it" these are very fanatical groups in my opinion.

DNF could not exist under the concept of no copyright laws... screwed up or not, I would rather things be as they as they are and have games and music than not.

Create and give away your creations all you want, but leave my choice to profit from my own creations up to me.

MrBlackCat
-2

User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#539

View PostDavoX, on 30 May 2011 - 03:29 PM, said:

you also have to think about the people that are allowed to work via this system and the families that need to be fed from all that work :angry:

That happens with all kind of change in society

View PostMad Max RW, on 30 May 2011 - 05:46 PM, said:

You mean like how China copies foreign products and resells them at extremely low prices worldwide, undermining the rest of our economies? If you get rid of copyright laws you also get rid of the ability of a person to own their invention and make money off it. A world like that will only stagnate when you have no incentive to create.

Quite extremist conservative capitalism. I guess Mr.Deviance is being a little radical in his oppinion, but that's not being very different in these terms...
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#540

I think it sucks that it got leaked, but 15 fuckin years is a long time to wait, so I understand why some would download it.
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