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360 Demo Leaked? Do not support piracy!

User is offline   ReaperMan 

#451

View PostTX, on 21 May 2011 - 10:31 AM, said:

Downloading some files is definitely nowhere near as bad as grand theft auto. :)


I find it kinda sad that you need to explain this to people. You would of figured that they could had figured this out on there own. :)
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#452

View PostReaperMan, on 22 May 2011 - 08:02 AM, said:

I find it kinda sad that you need to explain this to people. You would of figured that they could had figured this out on there own. :)
I have always stated my view as my view... you stating yours as absolute is pretty ignorant.
I feel the same about your view... I hope you figure it you are incorrect also. :)

View PostDN4EVR, on 21 May 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:

No, in the end we should realize that we don't need to add yet more people into the overburdened prison system over stupid shite like pirating the latest Lady Gaga CD.
EXACTLY!
There is no such thing as prison over-crowding... only prison under-building by the way.

If the punishment for pirating that latest CD was a beating rather than a fine or prison sentence, it would STOP! See how easy that is?

I have to say though... with Lady Gaga as the example I am not so sure a beating might be in order for people who bought it legally. (hehehe Just kidding)

If we have punishments that STOP crimes, prison crowding goes away on its on. The REASON the prisons are full is because the people don't fear going basically. If the accommodations are of the right type, the VAST majority of people will not be back... ever. It is a shame to even say that it should be fear based, but without some kind of moral or ethical base, fear is what is left as motivation for not breaking laws.

There will always be a few hard-heads and that is why we even have prisons... for them. The other 90% of inmates would never come back if the prisons were set up right.

MrBlackCat

This post has been edited by MrBlackCat: 22 May 2011 - 09:23 AM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#453

View PostMrBlackCat, on 22 May 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:


There is no such thing as prison over-crowding... only prison under-building by the way.



What country do you live in? Here in the US we have a problem with SEVERAL HUNDRED totally empty brand new multi-million dollar maximum security prisons. The problem isn't overcrowding or under-building. The problem is Congress doesn't want to pay to operate these things. Two words: budget cuts.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 22 May 2011 - 09:40 AM

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User is offline   Hank 

#454

View PostMrBlackCat, on 22 May 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

If the punishment for pirating that latest CD was a beating rather than a fine or prison sentence, it would STOP! See how easy that is?

I have to say though... with Lady Gaga as the example I am not so sure a beating might be in order for people who bought it legally. (hehehe Just kidding)

No way. If there is a market, there is one filling it, no matter what the risks.

deleted; since this is now a sticky http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif

This post has been edited by Hank: 22 May 2011 - 12:49 PM

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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#455

View PostTea Monster, on 22 May 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

Anyone who is telling themselves that it isn't really stealling is just fooling themselves.

Piracy is not stealing simply because it doesn't fall under the definition of "stealing". I suppose it's rather closer to bootlegging.

Besides, I think you are providing a simplistic answer for a complex problem.

Downloading a pirate copy don't necessairly result in lost in profits, since the pirate might not buy a media if it is not available for free. For example a 10 years old kid who downloaded a 1,900 bucks Photoshop copy. It's far-fetched to say that Adobe "lost" that amount of money.

This post has been edited by Fox: 22 May 2011 - 01:59 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#456

It's my view that if someone downloaded a lot of pirated movies and games, if they lost of the option to do so, they'd get really bored or something and end up buying/renting a lot of those things anyway.
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User is offline   Tsuruke 

#457

Just curious, When is the confirmed demo date?
1

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental

#458

View PostTsuruke, on 22 May 2011 - 02:33 PM, said:

Just curious, When is the confirmed demo date?


June 3rd for FAC members. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
1

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#459

And most likely when the game ships for everyone else.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#460

View PostMrBlackCat, on 22 May 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

I have always stated my view as my view... you stating yours as absolute is pretty ignorant.


Using common sense to decide that stealing a car is not as bad a pirating games is not ignorant. Although i guess you could say i was ignorant because i believed that "common sense" meant that everyone has it, i guess that isn't true. :)

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 22 May 2011 - 06:25 PM

3

User is offline   Fox Mulder 

#461

View PostMicky C, on 22 May 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

And most likely when the game ships for everyone else.


I hope so, but after Randy posted this;

" You know - it turns out that this is the kind of game that doesn't really need a demo Day 1, forecasts are already off the charts, which BTW is what your pre-order is really all about. I can already imagine the probability that a lot of people aren't going to be able to get their hands on a retail copy on launch day with this one...

But what I wanted to call out was that the guys have been killing themselves to ship and to get the demo ahead of the game for the FAC members. The commitment has been there not just from the studio and the publisher, but all the way through to every one on the team. The commitment to do cool stuff for the FAC will continue, BTW. There are ideas and plans there. But I hope everyone has sane expectations. FAC people may have committed earlier than others and there is value to that, but they're not really spending any more than anyone else is on launch day and so we have to look for opportunities that offer value to FAC, but don't add cost to the process. I don't think ANYONE who cares about Duke would want us to end up like 3D Realms did. It still kills me that it got to that point with those guys...

Anyway - It turns out that June 3 is the earliest possible time that everything necessary for the demo to be launched can be in place so that's the date that our publishing partner has locked in for the demo's launch.

The fact that it launches *exclusively* for FAC is a pretty cool decision for the publisher, IMO. I think they should get high-fives for that call, not the other way around...

BUT - if a three week gap would make you happy, the only options we can consider are to either delay the game another two weeks in order to artificially create your three week gap OR we can just do the best we can and trust that you guys know that the thing that is most important to us in the universe is our customers - especially our most loyal and nice customers http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

What call would you make if it were your call? Would you delay the game another two weeks just to add a gap between demo and release date or would you prioritize the shipping of the retail game and trust that the FAC members are the most awesome and loyal fans in the world and remember them the next opportunity you have to provide a nice surprise that's exclusive to the club? "


I'm not sure what to think...

This post has been edited by Fox Mulder: 22 May 2011 - 06:42 PM

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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#462

View PostMr.Deviance, on 22 May 2011 - 02:56 AM, said:

Lady Gaga looks like a pirated person to me :)

But anyway, I agree with what has been said that software piracy is not depriving somebody of his software and I also partly agree with the idea that by pirating you are not depriving somebody of a sale.
I believe that people who pirate software in general can also find themselves in need of an app/game that would actually force them to buy it if it's not pirated anywhere.


Nope.avi...not everyone who pirates would buy the game/etc if it wasn't available on torrents. They'd just find other methods to do so....getting a friend's copy/etc.


View PostMartin, on 22 May 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

The whole 'First Access Club' fiasco was a pure money-making exercise and nothing more. What do you get for your purchase of Borderlands GOTY? Some crappy jpegs and a demo, which by rights you should have just gotten without having to pay for it. Due to this, I am totally in favour of piracy with regards to the DNF demo. We all know how long the wait has been, and to make us fans pay extra for the demo to this mythical game is really just Gearbox taking advantage of us, because they know many of us will pay that extra fee. The FAC pictures all got leaked pretty instantly, and now the demo is out there. Bravo to whoever leaked it. My friend has a jtagged 360, might get him to download DNF.

I'm still on the fence as to what format to get. I'd like to get it for PS3, but it scares me whenever a company shows zero PS3 media. Kinda suggests that it sucks. Not even sure if I'm going to bother getting the game at launch. The more I see of it, the more it doesn't look like a full-price game. May wait until Christmas and get it cheap.
Lol, he PAID for a demo that he could've gotten FREE with DNF preorders.....gigglesnort.

Also the leaked demo is buggy and isn't the actual FAC demo.....enjoy your crappy bugged demo pal.

View PostTea Monster, on 22 May 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

If you are producing something, and you are selling 20 copies of it and you find out that there are 2000 copies in circulation due to pirates, then you are going to be royally pissed off.

After a short while, you are going to be asking yourself why you are doing what you are doing if there is no money coming in.

As zwieback said, you are not just paying for the disk itself, you are paying a portion of the salaries of those who worked to make it and distribute it. If they don't make any money due to piracy, they won't be able to make any more of what you like as nobody has actually given them the money to do it. Studios and factories will close if it gets really out of hand.

Anyone who is telling themselves that it isn't really stealling is just fooling themselves.
1. There are hardly NO games that have such bad piracy ratios. Also, imo, as long as the company makes enough money to make a good profit then pirating a copy isn't hurting anyone but the execs. Fact is, most game devs get paid after the work is finished, and only a set amount. That means that in most cases piracy won't affect their salaries period.

Also, let some studios close if they make shitty games, which is another reason for low sales btw...not just piracy. That's natural selection pal, and it can be a bitch sometimes.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#463

View PostDN4EVR, on 22 May 2011 - 07:08 PM, said:

Also the leaked demo is buggy and isn't the actual FAC demo.....enjoy your crappy bugged demo pal.


I still would play it none the less, although i don't have a dev xbox. :)
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#464

View PostMrBlackCat, on 22 May 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:


EXACTLY!
There is no such thing as prison over-crowding... only prison under-building by the way.

If the punishment for pirating that latest CD was a beating rather than a fine or prison sentence, it would STOP! See how easy that is?

I have to say though... with Lady Gaga as the example I am not so sure a beating might be in order for people who bought it legally. (hehehe Just kidding)

If we have punishments that STOP crimes, prison crowding goes away on its on. The REASON the prisons are full is because the people don't fear going basically. If the accommodations are of the right type, the VAST majority of people will not be back... ever. It is a shame to even say that it should be fear based, but without some kind of moral or ethical base, fear is what is left as motivation for not breaking laws.

There will always be a few hard-heads and that is why we even have prisons... for them. The other 90% of inmates would never come back if the prisons were set up right.

MrBlackCat
1. No, it wouldn't....regardless of punishment people will still commit crimes, either because they don't care for some reason, they are insane(literally), or for some other reason.

2. Prisons are full because of, as others said, budget cuts to maximize profits for prison owners & because alot of victimless crime criminals are sent there to run the industrial complex for the prisons and make more money for all the people involved in the chain. Also, no.....FEAR based prisons will just create public outcry and loathing for the system and it wouldn't be long before the system was put back to the way it was.

View PostMad Max RW, on 22 May 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

What country do you live in? Here in the US we have a problem with SEVERAL HUNDRED totally empty brand new multi-million dollar maximum security prisons. The problem isn't overcrowding or under-building. The problem is Congress doesn't want to pay to operate these things. Two words: budget cuts.
Nope, it's mostly overcrowding. Closed older prisons abandoned for various reasons(like health codes/etc) don't count in the figures, as well as unfinished ones. And there's nowhere near that many empty prisons, btw.

This post has been edited by DN4EVR: 22 May 2011 - 07:14 PM

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User is offline   randir14 

#465

View PostFox Mulder, on 22 May 2011 - 06:39 PM, said:

I hope so, but after Randy posted this;

-snip-

I'm not sure what to think...


Randy makes it sound like they went out of their way to make sure FAC got an early demo and that we should be grateful. Well gee Randy, isn't that what was promised back in October? Congratulations on keeping your word...?
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#466

View PostMad Max RW, on 22 May 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

What country do you live in? Here in the US we have a problem with SEVERAL HUNDRED totally empty brand new multi-million dollar maximum security prisons. The problem isn't overcrowding or under-building. The problem is Congress doesn't want to pay to operate these things. Two words: budget cuts.
I live in the US. I know what you mean... a company I work for has built many prisons around the US.
I agree completely... can't change that though. Its still all about money. I would rather taxes be used to protect law abiding citizens than many other things our taxes are abused for.

This is boiling down from moral and legal issues of piracy into an "inefficient government" discussion making it even more idealistic than my own point of view. They are related of course.

View PostHank, on 22 May 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:

No way. If there is a market, there is one filling it, no matter what the risks.

deleted; since this is now a sticky http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif
But that would suggest that crime can't be stopped, then why do we have laws in the first place?
With monetary crimes like Drug Dealing I would agree. With stealing music MP3's if people knew the odds were even 1 in 5 they would go to jail for a time, stealing music would then only be done by the crazy. Especially if prison was enough of a deterrent, which is a separate issue.
Violence is also a deterrent for crime. Screw prisons then, give beatings. :( (hehe, hey it works on me!)
Because you stated the above...
I can honestly say... if you believe what you just stated above, what I just quoted, my understanding of your view is dramatically altered. If I believe that risk was not a factor, then yes I would definitely agree with you on most of your points relative to this subject. A beating would keep me from pirating a game if I believed I would get caught... (if that were my motivation not to pirate). Maybe our views on how many people are crazy vs sane is dramatically different. Not sure.
I see why our views are quite different.

View PostReaperMan, on 22 May 2011 - 06:25 PM, said:

Using common sense to decide that stealing a car is not as bad a pirating games is not ignorant. Although i guess you could say i was ignorant because i believed that "common sense" meant that everyone has it, i guess that isn't true. :)
Hehehe. Sorry ReaperMan for using that word... I really wasn't trying to be a jerk though. I didn't mean it in a disparaging way.
What I am trying to say that I believe the principles are what should be enforced, not just "this crime deserves this punishment" kind of thinking. Stealing is stealing... today gum, tomorrow the car. Proven, but I digress as this is another issue. (repeat offenders crime progression)

Like the Toe licking guy (look it up) Because there is no "top end" to his crime, he still runs amok licking womens toes on beaches. (yeah, makes me vomit to imagine) Though he has been arrested multiple times and fined, that is ok with him... so he is never stopped. I think he should be stopped... and I could stop him. That is what I mean really. Because there is no "top end" on stealing music, it doesn't stop. I think the focus should be on stopping it with disregard to "seriousness". Stealing is stealing, in my mind.

So again... my point isn't that the crimes are the same, just that they should be stopped with whatever it takes to stop them. I agree with many crimes... lets say, "Starting points" (e.g. Grand Theft Auto) but if the behavior is too frequent, increase the punishment until it stops or is reduced to only the "crazy" people. The "rational" people will stop when it becomes undesirable to commit the crime.
So, a bit more evolved now... What do you think of that as an idealistic concept?

View PostDN4EVR, on 22 May 2011 - 07:12 PM, said:

1. No, it wouldn't....regardless of punishment people will still commit crimes, either because they don't care for some reason, they are insane(literally), or for some other reason.
Why do so few people jump off cliffs then? Because they know the consequences. They learned that impact is not very fun no matter how much fun falling actually is. (ask a skydiver)
If they are unreasonable. Then we have jails for just them.

I agree that SOME people will still commit crimes.
If a speeding ticket was $5000 or a tazing, would you still speed? Of COURSE anyone reasonable would not... and prisons are made for the rest of them... the unreasonable.

DN4EVR said:

2. Prisons are full because of, as others said, budget cuts to maximize profits for prison owners & because alot of victimless crime criminals are sent there to run the industrial complex for the prisons and make more money for all the people involved in the chain. Also, no.....FEAR based prisons will just create public outcry and loathing for the system and it wouldn't be long before the system was put back to the way it was.
Nope, it's mostly overcrowding. Closed older prisons abandoned for various reasons(like health codes/etc) don't count in the figures, as well as unfinished ones. And there's nowhere near that many empty prisons, btw.
Getting too far into poorly run governments here really. I was talking about the ethics of stealing the hard work of others... but I agree with most of what you stated here.

It is interesting you point out the realistic side (because I know I am discussing it more idealistically) in saying that this "public outcry". This is a problem... sheeple want behaviors stopped, but want to be nice about it... that is why the system is failing. Anyone who has fought in close combat can explain this actual reality which lies under the sugar coated society of today. So again, I completely agree with this realistic side to trying to make the world a better place, so to speak. Sheeple will never allow that to happen.

I am a proud supported of Tent City by the way. It works as best you can ask of a prison. Yep... I personally know someone in it, right now. As stated above, even this prison can't change everyone, but the ones that can be changed, get changed in this hell hole. Few prisons work this well. (and yes, I do actually know this)
===============
I realize we have ended up typing about multiple issues at this point. In closing I just want to say the the point of stopping crimes, I believe punishments should be great enough to deter the "sane" people. I think that is common sense. The all those others are actually "crazy" then operated more prisons. I will gladly pay for that with my taxes if it protects "us"
Is that not a reasonable expectation?

So the other main focal point would be what is a crime and maybe how to put a price on it. I will always see piracy, from an MP3 to a video game, as wrong... regardless definition or the punishment our society and government choose for it. There are many legal things that are wrong in my opinion. There are many illegal things that are not wrong in most any of our opinions.
I accept that my wishing that our governments would ever choose to view it that way, is unrealistic.

MrBlackCat
-1

User is offline   Guess Who 

#467

Isnīt the demo for free? So it wouldnīt be piracy would it?
It may not be the official demo but still... a demo is a demo.
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#468

View PostGuess Who, on 23 May 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

Isnīt the demo for free? So it wouldnīt be piracy would it?
It may not be the official demo but still... a demo is a demo.

A demo released for free by other people than the owners of that demo, is against the copyright rules of the owners and allows them to even sue you for it.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#469

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

Hehehe. Sorry ReaperMan for using that word... I really wasn't trying to be a jerk though. I didn't mean it in a disparaging way.
What I am trying to say that I believe the principles are what should be enforced, not just "this crime deserves this punishment" kind of thinking. Stealing is stealing... today gum, tomorrow the car. Proven, but I digress as this is another issue. (repeat offenders crime progression)


Of course it is a crime and you deserve punishment if you commit it, but what i getting at is the punishment should fit the crime.
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User is offline   Guess Who 

#470

View PostMr.Deviance, on 23 May 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

A demo released for free by other people than the owners of that demo, is against the copyright rules of the owners and allows them to even sue you for it.


Really? I didnīt know that. It makes sense... But as the game is being advertised, i donīt think they care much about it. You know, theres no bad media! Lol
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#471

View PostGuess Who, on 23 May 2011 - 11:33 AM, said:

You know, theres no bad media! Lol

You mean, the proverb "There's no such thing as bad publicity" ?
I think that's what you mean and I believe bad publicity does exist and can be caused by fuckups mostly.
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User is offline   Guess Who 

#472

View PostMr.Deviance, on 23 May 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

You mean, the proverb "There's no such thing as bad publicity" ?
I think that's what you mean and I believe bad publicity does exist and can be caused by fuckups mostly.


In this case Randy doesnīt think that way. Iīve seen an interview where he stands up for that sentence.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#473

[quote name='"MrBlackCat "]Stealing is stealing... today gum' date=' tomorrow the car. Proven, but I digress as this is another issue. (repeat offenders crime progression)[/quote']
Today you commit a grammatical error, tomorrow you became a serial killer

Do you really believe that there is the risk of people downloading torrents going to steal cars? That sounds catastrophobic to me

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2011 - 11:52 AM

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User is offline   Assblaster 

#474

Any one that has taken a law class knows why Copyright infringement is not the same as theft and why its a bad idea to group them. Dowling v. United States was a big one in the 80s. Stolen can get you into a world of hurt on what you are stealing and how. This one guy I saw was trying to steal a bike and almost got his ass slap with a felony because of how much the bike was cost. Most state laws set a minimum value level of the property stolen in order to distinguish between felony and misdemeanor.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#475

Phew, what's the point with the "piracy = stealing" thing? Piracy is not stealing, the words have distinct meanings.

Is it to cause impact? Why them don't say piracy is murder, perhaps even rape?

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2011 - 12:00 PM

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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#476

View PostFox, on 23 May 2011 - 11:59 AM, said:

Phew, what's the point with the "piracy = stealing" thing? Piracy is not stealing, the words have distinct meanings.



In both cases the perp assumes that he/she has some right to enjoy someone else's work for free. This is like your boss assuming you work for him for free.
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User is offline   Hank 

#477

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 10:44 AM, said:

But that would suggest that crime can't be stopped, then why do we have laws in the first place?
With monetary crimes like Drug Dealing I would agree. With stealing music MP3's if people knew the odds were even 1 in 5 they would go to jail for a time, stealing music would then only be done by the crazy. Especially if prison was enough of a deterrent, which is a separate issue.
Violence is also a deterrent for crime. Screw prisons then, give beatings. :( (hehe, hey it works on me!)
Because you stated the above...
I can honestly say... if you believe what you just stated above, what I just quoted, my understanding of your view is dramatically altered. If I believe that risk was not a factor, then yes I would definitely agree with you on most of your points relative to this subject. A beating would keep me from pirating a game if I believed I would get caught... (if that were my motivation not to pirate). Maybe our views on how many people are crazy vs sane is dramatically different. Not sure.
I see why our views are quite different.
You've the gist of my post and also over analyzing a bit. I think laws are in place to outline the general acceptable behaviour within a given society. Since, we have criminals, it is safe to assert that laws and enforcement will not deter a given criminal, that follows that there is not and never will be an effective deterrent.
I hope you are kidding, with beatings/jail for downloading an mp3! Here, we are dealing with a demo reserved for the In The Club members. Out of respect to those that waited for the demo, we should comply and most probably will.
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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#478

View PostReaperMan, on 23 May 2011 - 11:20 AM, said:

Of course it is a crime and you deserve punishment if you commit it, but what i getting at is the punishment should fit the crime.
I mostly agree with this... at least for first offenses. At the individual level I mean. But if I keep doing it over and over and just pay the fine, then that should tell lawmakers the punishment doesn't really fit the crime... if it isn't stopping the behavior. As long as people have MP3's they didn't pay for then the punishment doesn't fit, is my belief.

View PostFox, on 23 May 2011 - 11:50 AM, said:

Today you commit a grammatical error, tomorrow you became a serial killer

Do you really believe that there is the risk of people downloading torrents going to steal cars? That sounds catastrophobic to me
Hehehe... well there is no evidence to indicate a link between grammatical errors and killers, that I am aware of.

Downloading though...Yes... and while it is a bit dramatic, it would stem from not having the principles of a sense of what is right or wrong. People who grew up with the concepts of "whats mine is mine" understand this. Penny or not, stealing is stealing and the idea that it is ok because it is "small" isn't relevant to me. If stealing pennies is ok because it is small, do it every day at a bank and see how that works out. :(
Piracy is called piracy, but it is my opinion that it is just a more accurate term for a particular type of crime... I don't care how the "law" defines it or chooses to punish it, I think it is wrong and should be stopped.

View PostAssblaster, on 23 May 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Any one that has taken a law class knows why Copyright infringement is not the same as theft and why its a bad idea to group them. Dowling v. United States was a big one in the 80s. Stolen can get you into a world of hurt on what you are stealing and how. This one guy I saw was trying to steal a bike and almost got his ass slap with a felony because of how much the bike was cost. Most state laws set a minimum value level of the property stolen in order to distinguish between felony and misdemeanor.
Exactly... that is part of what is wrong in my opinion. World of hurt works. I believe that too many laws are based on monetary value, not principle. I am fine with your friend having a felony for stealing... even a game. If your friend or some pirate honestly didn't know, then treat the situation very differently... if they don't care, that is very different. Everyone makes mistakes, but I am NOT talking about people who make mistakes at really any point in my posts in this thread. (probably should have made that distinction earlier)
But see how that stuck in your mind? FELONY bike theft... word travels fast. Once word got out, most of it would just go away. Unless you don't view a year in jail as a deterrent for crime like some people do.

View PostHank, on 23 May 2011 - 01:15 PM, said:

You've the gist of my post and also over analyzing a bit. I think laws are in place to outline the general acceptable behaviour within a given society. Since, we have criminals, it is safe to assert that laws and enforcement will not deter a given criminal, that follows that there is not and never will be an effective deterrent.
I hope you are kidding, with beatings/jail for downloading an mp3! Here, we are dealing with a demo reserved for the In The Club members. Out of respect to those that waited for the demo, we should comply and most probably will.
Maybe so... as far as general acceptable behavior, but it isn't working at all where I live. All that protects you here is that a LOT of people are armed... and criminals most certainly don't want to be shot. I have worked with a lot of criminals... this is first hand knowledge.

In a way I am not kidding about beatings and jail for downloading mp3s. Maybe a bit dramatic, but it is really just an example. So I can't help but ask... what keeps you from doing anything illegal you want to do? If you are told not to pirate, don't pirate or you will be stopped... is how I think it should be.

You might remember a Bugs Bunny cartoon and the 2 cent bounty on hunting rabbits out of season or something like that. What is the point? (of course it was a political statement)

This illuminates a whole other problem I see, which is the failure to enforce the existing laws. I drove to the nearest city and out of irritation counted traffic violations. In sparse traffic driving less than 60 miles I witnessed over 180 traffic violations excluding speeding... two were by police. The US national debt could be paid off with revenue from traffic violations of that magnitude.

I agree Hank that we are getting far from the subject, but as usual I feel it is important to more deeply explore the roots of why we (most of us in this thread) have our different views. I do appreciate everyone who is patient enough to not only to think out their views, but take the time and expend the energy to express them the best they can.

But you are right (Hank) this thread is about...

View PostHank, on 23 May 2011 - 01:15 PM, said:

Here, we are dealing with a demo reserved for the In The Club members. Out of respect to those that waited for the demo, we should comply and most probably will.
Yes... I know this will not be the popular view, but I don't suffer in any way from not having the Duke Nukem Forever game or the Demo to the point of trying to justify bothering with any leaked or pirated material. The inspirations I experience from Duke Dukem strengthen me in a positive way, if anything, reinforcing patience with all things Duke Nukem, rather than producing any desire to pirate and or obtain even unofficial versions etc.
I accept that is not the experience held by the majority.

MrBlackCat
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#479

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 23 May 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

In both cases the perp assumes that he/she has some right to enjoy someone else's work for free. This is like your boss assuming you work for him for free.

With torrents leading to no real loss of materials the only real moral opposition is jealousy, imo....that someone gets something for free that one had to pay for. IMO, that's a load of bollocks to be jealous over someone's looser morality.
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User is offline   Hank 

#480

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

In a way I am not kidding about beatings and jail for downloading mp3s. Maybe a bit dramatic, but it is really just an example. So I can't help but ask... what keeps you from doing anything illegal you want to do? If you are told not to pirate, don't pirate or you will be stopped... is how I think it should be.

Me personally? Nothing. Yatta requested to shut it, done, no questions asked. (And I will not say either way what I think in this matter) Sample: In Canada I can legally obtain products that are illegal in other countries. Everytime I link to songs, I have to make sure they are legal for Europe, especially France. Here it's called the honour system. You can download any song and listen to it. You promise to buy it if you like it and delete it if you do not. It works.

If you want to have an in depth, lengthy debate with super long posts about crime, laws, justice and so on, why not make a new thread in the General forum? Just a thought.http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
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