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360 Demo Leaked? Do not support piracy!

User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#481

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 04:22 PM, said:

Hehehe... well there is no evidence to indicate a link between grammatical errors and killers, that I am aware of.

Downloading though...Yes... and while it is a bit dramatic, it would stem from not having the principles of a sense of what is right or wrong. People who grew up with the concepts of "whats mine is mine" understand this. Penny or not, stealing is stealing and the idea that it is ok because it is "small" isn't relevant to me. If stealing pennies is ok because it is small, do it every day at a bank and see how that works out. :(
Piracy is called piracy, but it is my opinion that it is just a more accurate term for a particular type of crime... I don't care how the "law" defines it or chooses to punish it, I think it is wrong and should be stopped.

Is there real evidence that indicates a link beetween piracy and stealing?

It's not a question of personal views, but of nomenclature. The dictionary will tell you that piracy is "unauthorized reproduction", and that steal[ing] is "to take [the property of another] without permission or right, especially secretly or by force" or something on that line.

I am sorry, but I think that the comparsion of piracy with stealing don't have much weight as a real argument. Reminds me of a religious dispute with the assumption "atheists are imorals"...

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2011 - 06:04 PM

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User is offline   MrBlackCat 

#482

View PostFox, on 23 May 2011 - 05:50 PM, said:

Is there real evidence that indicates a link beetween piracy and stealing?

It's not a question of personal views, but of nomenclature. The dictionary will tell you that piracy is "unauthorized reproduction", and that steal[ing] is "to take [the property of another] without permission or right, especially secretly or by force" or something on that line.

I am sorry, but I think that the comparsion of piracy with stealing don't have much weight as a real argument. Reminds me of a religious dispute with the assumption "atheists are imorals"...
Intellectual Property is still property... especially with something so specific as a song or a game.
As far as the atheists are immoral concept... that is based in the assumption that morals are of theist source exclusively, which is not the case. But piracy and stealing are both crimes, so I believe these two are a reasonably related.

Call it whatever you like and play with the semantics of definition all you want... I don't have time for a lawyer to write my posts really.
When you buy something you pay for an experience... some experiences have physical materials, some do not. Both have cost and effort to create however... and if you can experience what someone created for profit as a business, and you didn't pay for it, it is my point of view that the act is wrong. I see piracy as a manifestation of Self-entitlement.

And again, my view regardless of legal definition is that we have no "right" to experience the hard work of others without compensating them for it, when we know they created it to make money.

I guess the concept of "because it doesn't hurt anyone" is scary to me. Tomorrow it might be "It doesn't hurt anyone to use their land for my hunting because it doesn't hurt them... and they have more than they need. I already get that crap IRL... and no legal support for it. I have to deal with it myself.

I do remember when some software was free to try, and you were asked to pay for it if you used it, or delete it after 30 days or so. Nice concept, but I do notice that business model has died out. Wonder why?

@hank. Yes... sometimes honor systems work well with stuff like that. I love to see that work. It doesn't work for the most part in the US in my opinion though.

I still think if any of us here made something for years of hard work, we would not be too happy to know hundreds of people who didn't pay for the right to play it are doing just that. Especially if we need income for our families and more profit, so we can have less debt, so there is less money used to cover loan interest, so we can afford to put more effort and money into our next thing we make. So the whole "they have enough money" thing doesn't work for me just because it happens to be digital reproduction.

MrBlackCat
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#483

Just because we have no right(legal or due to someone's morals) to do something doesn't mean we can't do it, though.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#484

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

Intellectual Property is still property...

Is "website architecture" still architecture, considering the last one supposedly applies to buildings?

However you can't compare these two in the subject piracy x stealing, since by definition you can't "steal" something that is intangible. You can only copy intellectual property.

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

But piracy and stealing are both crimes, so I believe these two are a reasonably related.

Apparently masturbation is a crime in Indonesia and the penalty is decapitation. But I don't think indonesians who masturbate are comparable to burglars.

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

Call it whatever you like and play with the semantics of definition all you want... I don't have time for a lawyer to write my posts really.

Well, it's just that I don't like to hear that piracy is stealing, as much I wouldn't like to hear that a dog is a feline

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

I guess the concept of "because it doesn't hurt anyone" is scary to me. Tomorrow it might be "It doesn't hurt anyone to use their land for my hunting because it doesn't hurt them... and they have more than they need. I already get that crap IRL... and no legal support for it. I have to deal with it myself.

That's a little exaggerated, isn't it? Downloading torrents might not necessarily draw meteors towards the Earth

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2011 - 09:40 PM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#485

View PostFox, on 23 May 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

Well, it's just that I don't like to hear that piracy is stealing,,,

You've done a good job up until now, just continue to cover your eyes and ears and tell yourself whatever you want.

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 23 May 2011 - 09:40 PM

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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#486

If I am covering my eyes it is with a dictionary :(

This post has been edited by Fox: 23 May 2011 - 09:54 PM

2

User is offline   Hank 

#487

View PostMrBlackCat, on 23 May 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

I do remember when some software was free to try, and you were asked to pay for it if you used it, or delete it after 30 days or so. Nice concept, but I do notice that business model has died out. Wonder why?

I did not know that concept died out. I tested six different video editors on a time limit, ehmm like last week. With games it's different because of the integrated art work, so you'll get demos instead. Both systems are an advertisement concept in full use. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#488

Ooooh, this is going to get good. Quick someone get a bag of popcorn before the action is over. :(
3

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#489

View PostFox, on 23 May 2011 - 09:54 PM, said:

If I am covering my eyes it is with a dictionary :(

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but when you brought that book up to cover your eyes, you might have had trouble stopping in time and hit yourself on the head.
-1

User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental

#490

View PostReaperMan, on 23 May 2011 - 10:34 PM, said:

Ooooh, this is going to get good. Quick someone get a bag of popcorn before the action is over. :(


Extra butter?
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#491

Anythign new on the leak debacel? Did gbx unban people yet? Or is the dram still happening?
1

User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#492

View PostTea Monster, on 23 May 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but when you brought that book up to cover your eyes, you might have had trouble stopping in time and hit yourself on the head.

Can't you use any real argument other than offenses?

And I wasn't even talking to you before, are you all upset just because I refute your ideals?

This post has been edited by Fox: 24 May 2011 - 06:40 AM

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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#493

View PostDN4EVR, on 23 May 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

With torrents leading to no real loss of materials the only real moral opposition is jealousy, imo....that someone gets something for free that one had to pay for. IMO, that's a load of bollocks to be jealous over someone's looser morality.


The people who choose to pay rather than download rarely lack the ability to download (at least in the 1st world). So, if anything those who choose to pay are likely to feel moral superiority over people who download.

Moreover, even if piracy is a fact of life, maintaining negative stance toward it is vital. Piracy would explode if it became acceptable, leading to catastrophic losses.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#494

Quote

So, if anything those who choose to pay are likely to feel moral superiority over people who download.

So it works like some kind of indulgence?
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#495

View PostFox, on 24 May 2011 - 06:46 AM, said:

So it works like some kind of indulgence?


No more than paying for groceries is considered an indulgence.
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#496

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 24 May 2011 - 06:35 AM, said:

The people who choose to pay rather than download rarely lack the ability to download (at least in the 1st world). So, if anything those who choose to pay are likely to feel moral superiority over people who download.

Moreover, even if piracy is a fact of life, maintaining negative stance toward it is vital. Piracy would explode if it became acceptable, leading to catastrophic losses.

I agree it shouldn't be accepted by the mainstream or become acceptable to them......just stating my observations.
0

User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer

#497

View PostFox, on 24 May 2011 - 06:28 AM, said:

Can't you use any real argument other than offenses?

And I wasn't even talking to you before, are you all upset just because I refute your ideals?

You held up the dictionary and said that there was no link between the word 'Pirate' and the word 'Steal' - which immediately gives the completely fall-off-your-chair-laughing image of Blackbeard and his crew taking to the sea so that they can sing sea shantys and live a care-free bohemian life-style on the carribean seas. If you are going to stand up and defend your point of view, please do it responsibly! I've got to mark your post up by one just because it made me smile all day.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#498

View PostCommando Nukem, on 24 May 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

Extra butter?

Yes, with two cokes and some M&M's.
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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#499

What you guys don't understand is that you're buying a permission to use the software when you buy the disc or through steam. If you play the game without paying for the permission, you're doing something illegal, period.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#500

View PostDavoX, on 24 May 2011 - 08:09 AM, said:

What you guys don't understand is that you're buying a permission to use the software when you buy the disc or through steam. If you play the game without paying for the permission, you're doing something illegal, period.


Lets see, lets say way back in 1996 someone leaked the Duke Nukem 3D shareware. Now in you opinion would that of been bad? Even though they were going to release it for free?

This post has been edited by ReaperMan: 24 May 2011 - 08:21 AM

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User is offline   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #501

View PostReaperMan, on 24 May 2011 - 08:16 AM, said:

Lets see, lets say way back in 1996 someone leaked the Duke Nukem 3D shareware. Now in you opinion would that of been bad? Even though they were going to release it for free?

That actually happened. Duke Nukem 3D v0.99 beta, from about a month before the 1.0 shareware release, leaked by a journalist who received a beta as an early review copy I believe.
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User is offline   ryche 

#502

I can wait. Sad to hear this happen though.
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#503

View PostTX, on 24 May 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:

That actually happened. Duke Nukem 3D v0.99 beta, from about a month before the 1.0 shareware release, leaked by a journalist who received a beta as an early review copy I believe.


Wow, your right i can't believe i forgot about that. Alright lets just say it is in the history of Duke to have the demo leaked. There problem solved.
1

User is offline   DN4EVR 

#504

View PostDavoX, on 24 May 2011 - 08:09 AM, said:

What you guys don't understand is that you're buying a permission to use the software when you buy the disc or through steam. If you play the game without paying for the permission, you're doing something illegal, period.

Lots of other things are illegal as well, like smoking weed & prostitution.
1

User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#505

View PostTea Monster, on 24 May 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

You held up the dictionary and said that there was no link between the word 'Pirate' and the word 'Steal' - which immediately gives the completely fall-off-your-chair-laughing image of Blackbeard and his crew taking to the sea so that they can sing sea shantys and live a care-free bohemian life-style on the carribean seas. If you are going to stand up and defend your point of view, please do it responsibly! I've got to mark your post up by one just because it made me smile all day.

You was all the time talking about sea war-acts? Wow, we have been talking about different subject, didn't we?

By the way, if I am not wrong, historically the term "pirate" is used for copyright infringement because of illegal radio transmissions in sea vessels (read more here).

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 24 May 2011 - 06:57 AM, said:

No more than paying for groceries is considered an indulgence.

As I said before, piracy is very different from stealing. What if instead of I giving the defintiion of the words, I give a pratical example? Let's see... what was this thread about? Oh yeah, leaked demo.

For all matter, this leaked demo IS piracy, since it perfectly match the term of piracy (not to be confused with "sea piracy") which is copyright infringement. How exactly downloading a demo that would be free anyway compares to taking grosseries without paying?

This post has been edited by Fox: 24 May 2011 - 10:24 AM

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User is offline   Martin 

#506

You gotta laugh at people who spurn those who illegally download games when those same people have several gigabytes of illegally-downloaded music and films on their HDDs. Hypocrites.
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#507

View PostDN4EVR, on 24 May 2011 - 10:00 AM, said:

Lots of other things are illegal as well, like smoking weed & prostitution.


And neither should be, but at least you're paying for those, despite the fact that they're illegal.
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User is offline   DN4EVR 

#508

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 24 May 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

And neither should be, but at least you're paying for those, despite the fact that they're illegal.

Not if your buddy leaves some marijuana seeds out, you snatch a couple, and grow your own instead of paying him.
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User is offline   Guess Who 

#509

View PostMartin, on 24 May 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

You gotta laugh at people who spurn those who illegally download games when those same people have several gigabytes of illegally-downloaded music and films on their HDDs. Hypocrites.


Agreed.
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User is offline   Fox 

  • Fraka kaka kaka kaka-kow!

#510

View PostMikko_Sandt, on 24 May 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

And neither should be, but at least you're paying for those, despite the fact that they're illegal.

Does that matter, if they are legally/morally reprehensible?

View PostMartin, on 24 May 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

You gotta laugh at people who spurn those who illegally download games when those same people have several gigabytes of illegally-downloaded music and films on their HDDs. Hypocrites.

Considering this is partially a 1996 game modding-focused community, I wonder, how many over there care if a mod uses Doom-ripped sprites?

I have no idea how many copyright laws some of the mods I have worked have already broken...
2

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