[Mr.Deviance]

Jhect, on Jan 22 2011, 07:19 AM, said:

Yes this is basicly just a mod.

It's not a mod! You are very wrong!
It's a full blown game made with the unreal development kit.
It's not even a TC mod since it's not built over unreal tournament 3 or some other unreal engine 3 based game.
It's not a mod. It's a full blown game made by an independent dev team.
There is absolutely no argument to support the idea that this is a mod.
And if this isn't clear enough for you and you need further proof, then I can't think of any better example of a real game blessing than Jon st. John's collaboration.
If you haven't read it on their site yet, Jon st. John is going to record one liners for this project!
Imo, anything that Jon st. John touches, automatically becomes an official Duke Nukem game!

[Hank]

Mr.Deviance, on Jan 23 2011, 05:17 AM, said:

It's not a mod! You are very wrong!
It's a full blown game made with the unreal development kit.
It's not even a TC mod since it's not built over unreal tournament 3 or some other unreal engine 3 based game.
It's not a mod. It's a full blown game made by an independent dev team.
There is absolutely no argument to support the idea that this is a mod.
And if this isn't clear enough for you and you need further proof, then I can't think of any better example of a real game blessing than Jon st. John's collaboration.
If you haven't read it on their site yet, Jon st. John is going to record one liners for this project!
Imo, anything that Jon st. John touches, automatically becomes an official Duke Nukem game!

I know you addressed Jhect, but I disagree with some of your statements.

The license Frederik Schreiber has is the ability to use Duke Nukem and put it into the Unreal Engine. The license itself guaranties this project to be a modification and not a new game; otherwise he would not need the blessings from 3D Realms/Gearbox in the first place. There is a lot of work involved in this modification and Jon st John will give a little authenticity to it.

[sardonic]
But, I can't resist: Donate, my good man! Otherwise, pretty soon, you too will be out of the loop. Don't forget that guys like Khaled Ibrahimi, the producer of this modification, have far more say in what will end up in your computer than Jon. Unless, you are actually able to download the final modification, I think no one can say if it is a real cool modification or just an unholy mix of Duke's voice, brown foreground with Killzone style sets in the background.[/sardonic]

[MusicallyInspired]

The good thing about this is if JSJ rerecords all the original lines in high quality we can add them to the EDuke32 HRP!

[Tea Monster]

It is a game, not a mod or TC.

A mod is an alteration of an existing game.
A TC is the complete replacement of all visible game assets.

If all you start with is an engine, then it's a fully fledged game in it's own right.

[Frederik Schreiber]

Mr.Deviance, on Jan 23 2011, 03:17 AM, said:

It's not a mod! You are very wrong!
It's a full blown game made with the unreal development kit.
It's not even a TC mod since it's not built over unreal tournament 3 or some other unreal engine 3 based game.
It's not a mod. It's a full blown game made by an independent dev team.
There is absolutely no argument to support the idea that this is a mod.
And if this isn't clear enough for you and you need further proof, then I can't think of any better example of a real game blessing than Jon st. John's collaboration.
If you haven't read it on their site yet, Jon st. John is going to record one liners for this project!
Imo, anything that Jon st. John touches, automatically becomes an official Duke Nukem game!

Hank, on Jan 23 2011, 05:58 AM, said:

I know you addressed Jhect, but I disagree with some of your statements.

The license Frederik Schreiber has is the ability to use Duke Nukem and put it into the Unreal Engine. The license itself guaranties this project to be a modification and not a new game; otherwise he would not need the blessings from 3D Realms/Gearbox in the first place. There is a lot of work involved in this modification and Jon st John will give a little authenticity to it.

[sardonic]
But, I can't resist: Donate, my good man! Otherwise, pretty soon, you too will be out of the loop. Don't forget that guys like Khaled Ibrahimi, the producer of this modification, have far more say in what will end up in your computer than Jon. Unless, you are actually able to download the final modification, I think no one can say if it is a real cool modification or just an unholy mix of Duke's voice, brown foreground with Killzone style sets in the background.[/sardonic]

Luckily, you dont know anything about the license, nor the game or the cooperation with gearbox.

[Shawneth]

Did any of the original sprites or textures get used in the remake? That would awesome, like some kind of easter eggs or something.

[Danukem]

By the way, in case people have forgotten, John St John has been offering to record lines for cheap for years. The only limitation he put on it before this was that he would not say "Duke Nukem". I almost took him up on it myself, for some of my mods, but I decided it wasn't necessary.

[Hank]

fresch, on Jan 23 2011, 01:45 PM, said:

Luckily, you dont know anything about the license, nor the game and cooperation with gearbox.
You will be surprised, once we get closer to revealing whats really going on.

Until then, enjoy your own little world of crazy speculation.

Thanks. I'll take that as a compliment. All the best to you, and your world.

[ReaperMan]

Tea Monster, on Jan 23 2011, 02:39 PM, said:

It is a game, not a mod or TC.

A mod is an alteration of an existing game.
A TC is the complete replacement of all visible game assets.

If all you start with is an engine, then it's a fully fledged game in it's own right.

This^

[bullerbullerseven]

There are going to be points of the game where you can see that this game/mod/tc is based on duke nukem 3d. That was the reason why i called it a mod. It is going to be Dukem nukem 3d as it would have been if it was made today.
I understand why you don't agree with me. But i just don't call it a new game because it is made with a new engine.

[Danukem]

Jhect, on Jan 23 2011, 02:35 PM, said:

There are going to be points of the game where you can see that this game/mod/tc is based on duke nukem 3d. That was the reason why i called it a mod. It is going to be Dukem nukem 3d as it would have been if it was made today.
I understand why you don't agree with me. But i just don't call it a new game because it is made with a new engine.

That's like saying you understand why people call The Empire State Building a building, but you prefer to call it a house.

By your implied definition of "mod", pretty much any sequel or game inspired by an earlier game would be considered a mod. So HL2 is a mod of HL, Street Fighter 4 is a mod of Street Fighter 3, Starcraft 2 is a mod of Starcraft, etc.

[Scott_AW]

If its using Unreal's engine, despite all original graphics, models and what not, then it is a TC.

For it to be an original original, it would require it's own engine, or an engine that was not designed specificly for a game. Like Unreal's engine was made for Unreal games, using it to make a Duke3d game would be a TC, likewise converting Doom to Duke3d, or the otherway around.

Even if you were to do something original like I am, its still a TC because I'm using an engine that was designed for a specific game, and not one that's open for any type of game. If you used Unity then it wouldn't be a TC, it would be a fanmake/remake.

I could of used Build's base engine for the sake of creating a game that would not be a TC, but that would be a waste of time. Now if they use Unreal's base engine to make a new engine that would be different too, but still it would be a TC.

[Danukem]

Scott_AW, on Jan 23 2011, 03:07 PM, said:

If its using Unreal's engine, despite all original graphics, models and what not, then it is a TC.

For it to be an original original, it would require it's own engine, or an engine that was not designed specificly for a game. Like Unreal's engine was made for Unreal games, using it to make a Duke3d game would be a TC, likewise converting Doom to Duke3d, or the otherway around.

If that's true then it would be a TC of some Unreal game, not a TC of Duke 3D, so Jhect would still be wrong.

But I don't think it's true anyway. The Unreal Development Kit is used to make a lot of different games now, including commercial games. And of course, older versions of the engine have been licensed for use in making commercial games for many years. Here's a list:

http://en.wikipedia....al_Engine_games

Are you saying that all of these which aren't part of the Unreal franchise are TCs? That would come as a big surprise to the video game industry.

Scott_AW, on Jan 23 2011, 03:07 PM, said:

I could of used Build's base engine for the sake of creating a game that would not be a TC, but that would be a waste of time. Now if they use Unreal's base engine to make a new engine that would be different too, but still it would be a TC.

Also your position seems inconsistent. If starting from Build's base engine could yield something that is not a TC, then why could you not make something starting from Unreal's base engine that is not a TC?

[Scott_AW]

DeeperThought, on Jan 23 2011, 03:18 PM, said:

If that's true then it would be a TC of some Unreal game, not a TC of Duke 3D, so Jhect would still be wrong.

But I don't think it's true anyway. The Unreal Development Kit is used to make a lot of different games now, including commercial games. And of course, older versions of the engine have been licensed for use in making commercial games for many years. Here's a list:

http://en.wikipedia....al_Engine_games

Are you saying that all of these which aren't part of the Unreal franchise are TCs? That would come as a big surprise to the video game industry.

Actually if they use the Dev kit then that would be different, didn't take that into consideration. I guess that would make it a port, port to the modern era.

DeeperThought, on Jan 23 2011, 03:18 PM, said:

Also your position seems inconsistent. If starting from Build's base engine could yield something that is not a TC, then why could you not make something starting from Unreal's base engine that is not a TC?

My logic behind that is that with the base build engine you are left to create all the special stuff that duke3d already added, like pretty much everything. So you would have to convert duke3d. However the build engine itself is just a big template waiting for a game and additional coding, so you'd just be creating a game. Either way a TC is pretty much a new game, at least more so than a mod.

[Tea Monster]

Scott_AW, on Jan 23 2011, 04:07 PM, said:

If its using Unreal's engine, despite all original graphics, models and what not, then it is a TC.

You don't know what you are talking about.

[MusicallyInspired]

Jhect, your logic is seriously flawed lol.

A TC (total conversion) requires an actual total conversion of a game's resources into a brand new game. A MOD is a modification of a game but not a total overhaul. Duke Nukem Reloaded is neither of these things.

[Hank]

MusicallyInspired, on Jan 23 2011, 07:28 PM, said:

Duke Nukem Reloaded is neither of these things.

Lol - so unless we donate we have no clue. OK! A game then. Murharharharharharhar. I love this forum! All Hail Eduke and HRP and Duke Plus and my good ol' faithfull, yep, time to play and smoke some bad guys w00000t

[Jimmy]

The Commander, on Jan 22 2011, 01:05 AM, said:

It's only "fan art" to me so far.

/thread

[bullerbullerseven]

uhh. This is so weird xD all i mean is that this is based on another game. You guys really WANT to disagree or what? Mod is a word. Words can be used in many ways. Don't take them so serious. Especially on forum where not everyone speaks perfect english.
The word mod is the least important word of that post lol. Do you guys really not see that?

[Spirrwell]

Well I hope the licensing is something special... I thought that you couldn't legally get donations unless you gave 25% to Epic, I asked a question about donations a while ago before Duke Nukem 3D Reloaded existed: http://forums.epicga...ad.php?t=742351 Post #7 is key in that thread. Of course I may just be an idiot.

Edit: I re-read it, I was asking about UDK, and if you pay for a real Unreal Engine license, you don't have to give 25% away.

[----]

Jhect, on Jan 24 2011, 05:26 AM, said:

Mod is a word. Words can be used in many ways.

Yes, but if words are used correctly people can understand you better.

[MusicallyInspired]

Jhect, on Jan 24 2011, 06:26 AM, said:

uhh. This is so weird xD all i mean is that this is based on another game. You guys really WANT to disagree or what? Mod is a word. Words can be used in many ways. Don't take them so serious. Especially on forum where not everyone speaks perfect english.
The word mod is the least important word of that post lol. Do you guys really not see that?

No, it's not based on another game. It's based on a blank slate. Engine only. All the game art and logic is made from scratch. So it's not a mod (modification) because it's not modifying anything.

[----]

MusicallyInspired, on Jan 25 2011, 08:35 PM, said:

No, it's not based on another game. It's based on a blank slate. Engine only. All the game art and logic is made from scratch. So it's not a mod (modification) because it's not modifying anything.

I think we must accept that words and their meanings aren't used in their correct meaning anymore. They are used in whatever way people like (This morning someone asked if the game will be DLC or on CDs. DLC is defined as downloadable content for an existing game and is offered seperately from the original).

It is a bit like insulting someone with harsh words and then saying that it was meant in a totally different way and the he used the insulting words in a positive meaning. Or saying that the sky is green and later saying that green was of course used in the meaning of blue.

[MusicallyInspired]

If people bothered to respect the English language they would be used for what they're supposed to. It's not ok to just use words out of context. Have some respect for yourself and others who speak the language!

[Hank]

I'll quote this again, I love his post

fresch, on Jan 23 2011, 01:45 PM, said:

Luckily, you dont know anything about the license, nor the game and cooperation with gearbox.
You will be surprised, once we get closer to revealing whats really going on.

Until then, enjoy your own little world of crazy speculation.

We know nothing. Ergo we know nothing, or to put it another way we know nothing. 0+0+0=0

Since fresch says it's whatever, it's whatever - whatever

@ Spirrwell - Very good! Keep on going.

[Mr.Deviance]

Jhect, on Jan 23 2011, 03:35 PM, said:

There are going to be points of the game where you can see that this game/mod/tc is based on duke nukem 3d. That was the reason why i called it a mod. It is going to be Dukem nukem 3d as it would have been if it was made today.
I understand why you don't agree with me. But i just don't call it a new game because it is made with a new engine.

No, you are to use the right terminology where it's due if you want to be taken seriously.
If you want to be taken for a fool or a noob or a joker, then you can feel free to call anything you want with what ever words you want.
It is a game and just because it feels like a mod to you, doesn't give you the luxury of calling it a mod without mentioning why you are doing so.
The correct way is to call it a game that feels like a mod to you, if you expect to have a decent an intelligible conversation here and not some retarded pool of words and dizziness...

The post that I've made on the top of this page should have been the end of this debate as it's obviously the correct and obvious answer.
The only person that could have brought new facts to the debate and contradict my facts, was Fresch! But instead of doing so, he just decided to make a dumb arrogant post that tells nothing.
But after you've seen his face in pictures, it's no wonder why he would chose to post in such a matter.

To Fresch!
I hope you taste failure to the nth degree, because your attitude is shit and just because gearbox gives a shit about your project, that doesn't give you 3 balls or something.
The reason why I hope you taste failure is because I hope failure will help you to refine your attitude and force you to take things more seriously in the future.
You claim that your project is fan driven and donation driven, yet you come amongst the biggest concentration of duke fanboys and act like a dork, pissing at least part of them.
I guess you either love to make things hard for yourself by pissing off people that should donate, or you are just stupid and you don't know your own interest.

I started as a supporter of your project but right now, I don't care about it for shit after seeing who is in charge of it.
If you ever decided to sell this I would pirate definitely it! Good thing you are giving out for free though.
But you should know I that if it ever comes out, I will play it and if I happen to like it, I am not going to feel appreciative towards you but just towards your team that keep their pork traps shut the fuck up when they have a community interest.

[Tea Monster]

Jhect, on Jan 24 2011, 04:26 AM, said:

uhh. This is so weird xD all i mean is that this is based on another game. You guys really WANT to disagree or what? Mod is a word. Words can be used in many ways. Don't take them so serious. Especially on forum where not everyone speaks perfect english.
The word mod is the least important word of that post lol. Do you guys really not see that?

No, 'mod' is the most important word as you are using it to describe the thing we are talking about. Words can be used many ways, but they have to used the RIGHT way, with the correct definition, which you are NOT doing. If I point to a watermellon and say "I don't like this as it's an apple. I don't like apples as they have white fruit and a red skin, therefore I'm going to not like this (still pointing at watermellon) " I'll get a similar response.

[MusicallyInspired]

I guess every game that's used the Unreal engine ever must be technically a "mod" according to Jhect. Shadow Complex, Batman Arkham Asylum, Red Steel, Bioshock, Gears of War, DC Universe Online, Mass Effect, Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, and Turok. All Mods.

[ReaperMan]

MusicallyInspired, on Jan 30 2011, 03:15 PM, said:

I guess every game that's used the Unreal engine ever must be technically a "mod" according to Jhect. Shadow Complex, Batman Arkham Asylum, Red Steel, Bioshock, Gears of War, DC Universe Online, Mass Effect, Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, and Turok. All Mods.

My god DNF is a mod then! It uses a heavily modified Unreal Engine 2.5!

[bullerbullerseven]

You can't really debate it. The engine is made so that people could make games of it. I guess that when you think of a mod, you think of something that is free and easy to make. I'd say it doesn't have to be free and it can be as big as you want it.