[Jimmy]

Fox, on 27 October 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

Note that the Doom community release a lot of projects, but too much of it seems like experimental or joke WADs.

Or just outright trash.

[wnderer]

You don't seem to understand me. I'm not talking about creating a new map, mod or total conversion. The Top 100 Doom Wads is a list of favorites. I'm talking about creating a list of favorite maps, mods and TCs. I registered on this forum because I wrote a Python script to sort through the dukezone text files and find the single player games and make episodes out of them. My first problem was the mappers didn't understand the words 'Yes' and 'No'. "Single Player: Yes but it's gonna suck because it's a Dukematch game." My second problem was some of them didn't have exits. I was looking for a work around for the exit but there wasn't one. Well dukezone was a shovelware hole but then so is the Dukeworld repository. I guess my mistake was thinking that people with thousands of posts on this site wouldn't have trouble thinking of a dozen maps, mods and TCs they liked.

[Mark]

Then you want to search for the multiple threads where someone asked "what are your favorite maps". Or "I'm new, what maps would you recommend"

[Sanek]

@wnderer

If you want to get a good list of great maps, go here: https://msdn.duke4.net/hot.php
Basically every map that's scored 90 or more is worth playing.

Mikko Sandt is just one person who reviews maps though and as we know, every opinion is subjective. However, I don't think that we disagree with his opinions very often and considering that he writes reviews for over 20 years, he really proved himself to be the expert as far as evalutation of user maps is concerned.

Also check Come Get Some, with reviews by multiple people: http://www.scent-88....maplistings.php
Forge wrote the majority of reviews, and he have a good scoring system, he rates design, layout, gameplay etc..

You can download the maps, exclude the ones that require mods/TCs to run it, and upload it somewhere. You can ask a board's admins to make a "Top 100 maps" folder in DukeWorld and giving'em the respective maps (it's just a recommendation Oasiz, not a call to action!!!). Then make a post on reddit or wherever you want.

[wnderer]

@Sanek Great resources. Thanks

[oasiz]

I'm only a moderator here. (I don't control anything in duke4)

[NNC]

But I guess wanderer's point wasn't your monthly thread of map recommendation. It actually seems to be a nice idea to have a list of top25 greatest Duke 3D maps by community voting and it can be published on the main website. Of course a survey like this needs lots of voters. It's still not an objective list, like the cacowards have some shit in them every year, but people here just voted.

[oasiz]

I do agree it would be nice to have a central spotlight for these.
More "Voice of the community" style stuff.

[Ninety-Six]

Just 25? Man that's gonna be hard...


I realize maybe it's a tall order but I wonder if we couldn't do a top 10 or even a top 5 organized by year, like the cacowards/top 100 (except put it to community vote so it's not just one guy or an "elite" group making the decisions).

[wnderer]

Here are 300 nominees for The Duke Nukem 25th Anniversary 25 Top Whatevers. If there is interest, someone else can set up something so people can vote on them. Otherwise, I'll just leave it here.

2121 A.D.
25th Century Duke
A.dream trilogy
ACB Studios
Acupa Dylana
Adg Episode
Afterglow:-Series: The Scent Twin Creeks New World Rising
Age of Evil
Agony
Alex City 1: Bank Heist
Alien Armageddon
Alien Invasion
Alien Planet
Alien Planet X64-2
Alien Resurrection
Alien sanctuary
Alien Space Station
Alien Trilogy
Aliens versus Duke
Alpha Core
AlphaCity
Anarchy City 3: Zero Tolerance
Anarxiticalcity
Anorak City
Another Attack: Woudrichem War
Another Big Base Attacked
Another Timeless Night
Aquatic Hive
Area 27
Area 69
Aremade1
Armageddon Gang Wars
Asylum
Back Alley
Ballroom
Battle It Out In Birmingham
Bedrone
BEERZITY
Before the Storm
Beta Two: Blood Moon
Big Orbit
Bioshock
Bizarre
Blackened
Blown Fuses
Bobafett
BobSP-Series 2 3 4 X
Border Town
Borg Nukem
Brainwash Facility
Brave New World
Brooklyn Bridge
Bummed Out ! Anarchy City X
Castle of the Damned
Cathedral
CBP 4
Cerberus
Cherenkov Station
Christmas 2001
Christmas 2002
City Full of Alien Scum!
City Invasion (Part II)
City of Screams
Clear the Coast
Clearwater
Command & Conquer TC levels
Confession
Cosik
Crazy Dookie Fun
Crucial Conflict Series:1:2:3
Daemonus
DaikariN
Dark Place Series 4 5
Day after forever
Deadfall
Decay
Demolition
Demolition Plant
Desert Base 2
Desert Complex
Desert Storm
Die Scraper
Discarded Stronghold
DM_Ducts
DNF (Bottles to the Ground)
Docking Doom
Dogville 2012
Done & Dusted
Dookie Nukem 3D
Doomcity
DPCBP
Dukai
Duke 12:12
Duke 1999/2000
Duke 23:4
Duke 6:8
Duke Craft
Duke Forces
DUKE HARD v1.2
Duke in Zero Hour
Duke Lost Episodes
Duke Nukem 2013
Duke Nukem 64 Mod
Duke Nukem 64: Resurgence
Duke Nukem Army
Duke Nukem Eternity
Duke Nukem For3ver *PART 2*
Duke Nukem Forever 1.0
Duke Nukem Forever 2013
Duke Nukem Forever DLC Pack
Duke Nukem Forever: Bottles to the Ground
Duke Nukem in Russia
Duke Nukem Xmas 2014
Duke Nukem: Attrition
Duke Nukem: New Encounter
Duke Nukem: Total Meltdown TC
Dukecide
E1L10
Earth Base
EDF Overtaken
EDF Secret Base
Entrapped
Extermination
Eye of the Storm
Eye-Witness
FactoryX
Fantasy Hotel
FBSP Series 2 3
Fernocity
Filler
Forever and one more day
ForeverDoom
FOS Station
Freedom
Fruit Loops
Fusion
Galbadia
GJHoyer
God of War
Godzilla 98
Gotham's Industrial District
Hamilton Pool
Happy Hangover
Haunted Castle
Haunted Nukem
Have Fun Storming The Castle!
Hell Awaits
Hell Station
Hell-Station
Hiveduke
Hogwash : Seige on Triton 3
Hydro Station
Icestation Colossus
Icy Hot
Imagination World Tc
IMF Base Vengeance
Imperium
In Duke We Trust
Infestation in Time TC
Into the Storm
Invaders
It lives
Jailbird 2.
JFCBP Series
KaiseR Land Series 2 3
KickAss Duke
Kill City
Killing Time
Knee Deep
Kut World
LA Duke 2002
Last Reaction & Water Bases
Layre
Legends 2
Lem Series 3 4
Lighthouse
Lorch - Abducted
LOST
Lost World
Lunar Crossroads
Maia
Majik Duke
Manson
mapE1L1A
Mars!4
Metropolitan Mayhem
Military Madness
Mill Town Rampage
Mincer City
MiNd sTOrM
Moonbase
Mortal Shock
Mothership
MPResort
Naferias Reign - Invasion of The Dark Mistress
Nasty Flavour
Near Life Experience
Needle Time
Nightshade Army
Nitroglycerin
Nostromo
Nuclear Showdown
Nuke Plant
Oblivion
O'Boy
Of Pigs and Men
OHTLD 01
Operation Devil's Dance
Operation: Get Bike Back
Outpost X
Overkill
Overtime
Painkiller
Parkade
Pjsloth1
Platoon
Powerstation 64
Predators
Project Zero
QMC Puritan
Red Rock
Red Series 2 3 4 5
Red Sun
Restaurant Conspiracy
Retrospective
Return to Fury 161
Roch Series 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Rural Nightmare
Rush Back V2.01
Russian Community Build Project 2
Saturne
Seaquest
Sewage
Sewerside
Shade
Shaky Grounds Series:
Shrapnel City
Shuttle Service
Simple Minded
SkyCity Series 2
Starlite Project
STARSHIP TROOPERS TC
Streets of Gotham City
Subsuelo
Suburban Hive Series 2
Suburbia
Sun Burn
Sunshine Complex
Supa 3
Suspicious Storage
Taamalus
Taygeta
Terran Moonshaft
Terrorist Terror
The Adventures of Poseidon
The AMC TC
The Blue Planet
The Chronic: Bad Night
The Dream
The Gate
The GbaR
The Last Pissed Time
The Last Train to Marsville
The Lost Moonbase
The Newbeast Research Facility
The restless resort
The Rock
The Secret Base (007)
The Slums of LA
The Space Mission
The Sub Shop
The System: Opposing Facility
The Wall
Toxi City
Traffic Jam
Transport 2
Trequonia
Tribute to Action II
Tropical Alien Massacre
Turok
TWA
Unaided Mission
Undesirable Elements
V5
Voices of Authority
Voyager Ultimo: Frontiers on Europa
Warz
Waterworld
We Store Your Crap Remix
Welcome Home
West Alien Train
WGAlien
WGCity
WGRealms
WGSpace Series 2 3
Wonderful Christmas Time
WSYC remix
YMF500G
Zykov Eddy's Aliens TC (demo)

[jkas789]

I also nominate Downtown Journey. Some really great work by Preto Murara.

Also I think the CBP9-Halloween 2020 Release deserves a consideration.

[Ninety-Six]

I submit the Red 1 remake and Roch Island.

[wnderer]

Ninety-Six, on 31 October 2020 - 04:22 PM, said:

I submit the Red 1 remake and Roch Island.

Red 1 remake is there. It's part of the Red Series. There are 5 links on that line. I did the same thing with the Roch Series and some of the other series. Maybe that is not the best way. I think the idea is to cast a spotlight on some of the better work done and having a series competing with itself is not the best way to do that. Roch Island is not there, since it is not part of the Roch series, so it can be added.

[Ninety-Six]

I didn't realize the "Red Series" text actually referred to the remake. My mistake.

In that case I also submit The Unknown Planet.

[ck3D]

Damn you put in the work, nice selection, I really like how you included maps from every era, even Supa 3 is in there. Would love to be able to vote, if this gets put together I will. Skimming through it reminded me of some great times in lots of those maps, for instance Kevin Cools' Freedom, so many half-forgotten classics in there. Thank you for including so much of my stuff, too; not to plug even more, but I'm not sure if omitting Poison Heart was a conscious choice or an overlook, I think it bests some of my other levels you included.

[Ninety-Six]

I'll nominate it myself since it is a high-quality map.

[Aleks]

If we're going by the eras, I think we should also include some more of the older maps that did shine among all the rubbish released back then. Some more mods and maps, which I think are worth mentioning on the list:
Pray Your Prayers 2000
Secrets of the Acropolis
Azneer Building
Beam Me Up Scotty
BOBSP 1 (why it's not included in the BOBSP series? While it had no enemies and waas pretty short, I think it was quite groundbreaking back in the day and inspired quite a branch of mapping styles. And honestly I think it was a lot better than BOBSPX for example)
Dukem Memorial Hospital
Escape from Alcatraz
Escape from Area 54
Legends 1 and LEM 2 (again you included the series, but without these maps - I think LEM 2 was the best from the series)
The Flaming Shipwreck
Valves

[wnderer]

It was a mistake in the way I formatted the list that the first link in the series is the title and the sequels are numbers. So when it says Rocky 2 3 4 5, Rocky is a link to Rocky 1. I cropped this list to 300 somewhat arbitrarily, usually because as I scrolled through the hot lists I didn't find a link for it. I don't know how to make this into a vote for 25 poll, so I'll pass it on to someone else to make the complete list of nominees. Any volunteers?

[Ninety-Six]

I still think the best option is to vote for the best X maps of a certain year. That way so many of these worthy creations don't slip through the cracks.

[wnderer]

Ninety-Six, on 01 November 2020 - 06:36 AM, said:

I still think the best option is to vote for the best X maps of a certain year. That way so many of these worthy creations don't slip through the cracks.

How many nominees do you need for something like that? I limited it to 300 because there are only 365 days in the year. I figure we take nominees and get it set up by Christmas 2020 and end the vote Christmas 2021. The poll can say something like "Choose your top 25 Duke Nukem maps, mods and TCs. What you waitin for? Christmas?" People can celebrate the 25th anniversary by playing games. It a showcase not a time capsule. The games not chosen won't be lost and it's an honor just to be nominated. There's only so much room in the store front window. Only one swimsuit model gets the cover.

[Ninety-Six]

Perhaps. But even so.. It's 25 years not just of Duke 3D but of Duke #D mapping. A quarter of a century has passed of Duke mapping. Two and a half decades worth of creative outpouring.

I dunno, it just feels kind of wrong to limit it to a mere 25 out of the massive pool. Even if we group works together by series (Red, Roch etc) there'll still be a lot of slots taken by the usual suspects.

I realize I'm spitting into the wind, but I think it would be a disservice to all the lesser-known but still fantastic maps and mapsets. Things like Lost Highway and such, the ones that tend to slip through the cracks... I just don't want to rob them of a chance to be recognized in something like this. Maybe a top 50 instead of a top 25 to give some of them more of a fighting chance? I don't know I'm just sorta spinning my wheels here. 25 years and there's so much to play, and so many distinct eras of design and schools of thought. What we consider prime material now may shift to be something entirely different in another ten as yet another new age of design comes along. Which is not a bad thing at all, it's just...

I guess just ignore me. Not even I am entirely sure what I'm trying to say, here.

[Sanek]

Thank you for all the hard work with links, wnderer!

However, it's obvious that your list is based on your personal preferences, perhaps you included only the maps that you played.

A couple of real classics is not included, and there's also mods that's good for what they are but certainly not contenders for "25 best" list - mods like Zero Hour and Aliens TC demo. Also the joke mods like Dookie Nukem and Crazy Dookie Fun shouldn't be allowed IMO.

Also I'd replace Lunar Crossroads with FMX series (which this map is a part of). It really should be on the list since it offers the most vanilla-like expierence ever made by a user.

[wnderer]

Sanek, on 01 November 2020 - 09:03 AM, said:

Thank you for all the hard work with links, wnderer!

However, it's obvious that your list is based on your personal preferences, perhaps you included only the maps that you played.

A couple of real classics is not included, and there's also mods that's good for what they are but certainly not contenders for "25 best" list - mods like Zero Hour and Aliens TC demo. Also the joke mods like Dookie Nukem and Crazy Dookie Fun shouldn't be allowed IMO.

Also I'd replace Lunar Crossroads with FMX series (which this map is a part of). It really should be on the list since it offers the most vanilla-like expierence ever made by a user.

My list should be seconded. If you hit reply on my list and remove the html quote stuff you can edit my list and create a new list of seconded nominees and appended new nominees.

[ck3D]

I like where this is going. Maybe we could do it per year and then include the top 5 or 10 (or whatever number) of each year in one final poll, or in between (or just for fun) we could even make intermediary polls that would correspond to distinct 'eras' of mapping (maybe based on how MSDN has its archives organized, or whichever 'objective' factor works as to determine this easily). Lots of potential things to do.

Ninety-Six thank you, didn't mean to be an attention whore but even though I've kind of overgrown it already I didn't understand if omitting my latest/biggest release was a choice or not (which would have been completely fine, but had it been the case, as an author open to feedback, I would have been genuinely interested in the possible reasoning). You (and everyone) should keep providing input, you're doing great.

[NNC]

Damn, a large post of mine was lost by my shitty internet.... I'm so furious and don't start over. Fuck everyone of you.

[Mark]

It happened to me once and since then I copy long posts or emails to the clipboard before sending.

[ck3D]

The Watchtower, on 01 November 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

Damn, a large post of mine was lost by my shitty internet.... I'm so furious and don't start over. Fuck everyone of you.

Don't hate the player, hate the game - preferably the one that took fifteen years to disappoint. Advised duration of the hate session is two minutes.

[Outtagum]

The Watchtower, on 01 November 2020 - 05:36 PM, said:

Fuck everyone of you.

Is that the tl;dr?

[ck3D]

Mark, on 01 November 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

It happened to me once and since then I copy long posts or emails to the clipboard before sending.

Same here, and then there's those times where it happens so you're happy to have seen it coming, you feel smart and then you hit Ctrl C again instead of Ctrl V.

[Jimmy]

I would split up releases by decades, because gameplay and architecture/sprite styles have greatly evolved over the years.