By Preto Murara: "Downtown Journey" episode on Mod DB
#1 Posted 23 October 2020 - 07:35 AM
I have yet to play it myself, but the screenshots look so good and the atmosphere so cohesive (with a pretty unique style too), I'm thinking it's definitely worthy of more attention than just a random mention.
There's a batch of images on the author's Mod DB: https://www.moddb.com/mods/pretomurara
Will share my own impressions later once I've actually played it, but everyone else feel free to have at it already. Also I just emailed the link to Mikko at MSDN.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 23 October 2020 - 07:49 AM
#2 Posted 23 October 2020 - 09:30 AM
ck3D, on 23 October 2020 - 07:35 AM, said:
I have yet to play it myself, but the screenshots look so good and the atmosphere so cohesive (with a pretty unique style too), I'm thinking it's definitely worthy of more attention than just a random mention.
There's a batch of images on the author's Mod DB: https://www.moddb.com/mods/pretomurara
Will share my own impressions later once I've actually played it, but everyone else feel free to have at it already. Also I just emailed the link to Mikko at MSDN.
Found it yesterday, too and wanted to create a thread by myself today.
Played the first six levels and I can say the level design is really great. Especially when you keep in mind, that the episode is made with vanilla 1.4 Build and using the old limits. The levels are very detailed (sometimes a little bit cramped and hard to navigate through) but a little bit too short IMO.
#3 Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:02 AM
I just strated the fourth map which looks cleary better. Overall, the episode looks very promising, going to beat it a following days.
#4 Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:25 AM
I also messaged Preto on Discord to come here on the boards, so the "What are you working on" topic isn't just me and ck3D spamming
#5 Posted 23 October 2020 - 10:53 AM
Thank you for invite me to this forum (my first!) and thank you guys for playing.
This episode was my very first "public" Duke3D thing in 22 years of modding. I've never shared my build stuff with others
(the Pentium with win98 is a good reason indeed).
so let me know if you have any doubt / issue / question or just share opinions and ideas
PS. yes, the pentium story is true! haha.
#6 Posted 24 October 2020 - 02:34 AM
I agree some rooms tend to be cramped (something to keep in mind for future projects!) but I'm enjoying it so far. I'll leave a detailled review once I've played the whole episode.
PS: there's a sector at the end of map 2 that can squish you (screenshot in spoiler tags):
This post has been edited by Merlijn: 24 October 2020 - 02:36 AM
#7 Posted 24 October 2020 - 07:34 AM
Are you playing on eduke ot similar?
I created on a classic build (ms-dos thing) and sometimes some sectors that works on the ms-dos version glitches on eduke or steam version.
(for example - I found a place that duke can't go inside on ms-dos version and I can enter on eduke. This screw up one of the puzzles )
Anyway, I'll check it out! haha. Thanks
--------------------------------
UPDATE
--------------------------------
I found the problem: a hidden sector inside another sector. That is the glitch. You was right.
I will make a 1.1 version of this episode when I have more bugs to solve.
Thanks Merlijn!
This post has been edited by Preto Murara: 24 October 2020 - 07:55 AM
#8 Posted 24 October 2020 - 10:16 AM
Maybe contact him once you've made 1.1 so that he gets to update the file he's hosting too. Will let you know if I see more reviews pop up. Cool to see you join and thanks for sharing your work, looking forward to playing!
Also really curious about your earlier Build works if you ever feel comfortable showing more. Cheers!
This post has been edited by ck3D: 24 October 2020 - 10:17 AM
#9 Posted 25 October 2020 - 02:48 AM
The maps are mostly small/medium sized, fun to play and not too hard to navigate (with 1 annoying exception, see breakdown per level below).
I love the way all the maps are connected and weave trough each other, that's a very nice touch.
I agree with Mikko about the cramped nature of some indoor areas. Perhaps you could play around with unblocking certain sprites to give the player more room to move (especially in the train map).
PS: I played on Eduke and didn't have any engine related issues.
Short review of each map:
Apartment 02.
Bus depot
Metro line
12 Floor
Office rush
Haunted Asylum
Mess mall
New Stadium
Thanks for creating the episode, I had a couple of issues but overall it was fun to play!
This post has been edited by Merlijn: 25 October 2020 - 02:49 AM
#11 Posted 25 October 2020 - 05:54 AM
i've never thought that so many people would play my episode..
even write a review about it. Im really surprise
Thank you guys for the feedbacks. I'll use all of your reviews to
improve my next levels and release a version 1.1 for Downtown Journey
in the future (when I finish my home / job tasks haha)
#12 Posted 26 October 2020 - 09:17 PM
#13 Posted 28 October 2020 - 08:36 PM
I did find one bug while playing and not sure if it's eduke specific or not but when if you jump instead of use the jetpack to get out of the sewer in the beginning of the mall level, you get stuck in a spot where you can't get out of without "dnclip"-ing .
#14 Posted 29 October 2020 - 01:52 AM
In general, I loved the episode! The design was brilliant, very classic-inspired (length of the maps, general style of texturing), but with much more details and some very creative use of textures and sprites. It was really cool how the maps were interconnected, I was positively surprised to realise while in map 6 that I'm inside one of the buildings I saw back in map 4 and thought it would be inaccessible. It's also very elegant, the 2D plans of the levels look quite simple with occasional SOS coming quite naturally, but in game it seems much more intricate. Also I think Preto managed to capture the original episodes style of secret places distribution, there's been a lot of them, but none required some heavy random wall pushing or stuff like that, just a thorough exploration.
As for the crampedness, it was also mostly an issue in 1st map for me, other than that I can understand the idea with trying to get more accurate scale and it wasn't much of a gameplay issue for me, but I can understand how it may be against the taste of some people. If that was the author's intention, then I have no problem with it. Maybe some of the swing doors would require some concern as it was difficult to open some places (room with blue keycard in Haunted Asylum for example) due to how they bounce from actors now.
My favourite levels were Bus Depot (brilliant design, I'd like to see the real life place this was based on if this is the case, as it certainly looked very realistic), Office Rush (since you mentioned it was your former office, I'd also like to see some pics for comparison) and Mess Mall! (great depth with very simple verticality tricks, also nice variety of shops + the design on the drums was really clever and eye-candy). Metro level was pretty much everything you can expect for such level, you can't really go too far in terms of creativity with pseudo-realistic train map, but the design made it worth the while. There's been some nice SOS in 12 Floor (also nicely masked in the vent shaft and windows), it made nice use of verticality, but was a bit unpractical to navigate. Also I really liked Haunted Asylum, although some of the corridors did get a bit repetitive in this one. There was again some eye-candy and creative use of textures, and the ambience was really spooky in this one (I almost shit myself when an octabrain spawned a bit in front of me in a dark room and silently started biting me before I saw it!). The final stadium level was a nice touch and certainly looked more like a stadium than the original one.
Gameplay was well balanced for me. I was only a bit short of ammo in the 1st level which usually happens at the beginning of maps. I liked the sense of progression, both in terms of getting further into the locations familiar for the player from previous levels and also how the weapons were gradually awarded to the played, shrinker being the last I think.
BTW Merlijn,
Here's two screens I took from a couple of cooler details I really dig:
#15 Posted 29 October 2020 - 09:20 AM
Aleks, on 29 October 2020 - 01:52 AM, said:
BTW Merlijn,
Here's two screens I took from a couple of cooler details I really dig:
duke0037.png duke0039.png
I checked in mapster, and you're right! However
This is a great episode though, so I can easily forgive it.
This post has been edited by Merlijn: 29 October 2020 - 09:22 AM
#16 Posted 29 October 2020 - 09:32 AM
Its interesting to see different perspectives / perceptions about the gameplay / design.
In my next maps I would like to ask you guys to be the beta testers haha!
#17 Posted 29 October 2020 - 09:51 AM
I'm finally going to play the whole thing tonight, I just want to pay tribute to Brazil while doing it as the best weed I've ever smoked in my whole life was in Rio, so I'm getting in that state right now and as soon as I'm good I will go through it all and post my impressions! Honestly I really wish I had açaà to go with it! I've been missing that food ever since I came back. I actually really want to make a Rio map sometime, I know exactly which areas I would recreate there.
I also submitted your episode to Come Get Some: http://www.scent-88....51.html#msg9951 Puritan should have the file up on his website soon, I might send him my review if he ever needs one when I'm done playing. If you ever update the episode, maybe make sure to contact him too, his email should be somewhere.
Cheers!
This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 October 2020 - 09:55 AM
#18 Posted 29 October 2020 - 10:38 AM
#19 Posted 29 October 2020 - 04:06 PM
Bus Depot: now this one was great, all the issues I was mentioning regarding the cramped scale are gone, there was a great liberty of movement in open spaces, a great floor plan for the bus depot itself with those extra floors and X-shaped type of layout. Had a couple of issues with dark places again but it wasn't as oppressive as in the opening map at all, it was mostly the ventilation shafts here and not entire rooms. I think there might be an invisible wall leftover near the beginning as hugging the wall on the left side of the door of the first building just as I left it blocked me against nothing (didn't check in Mapster though so maybe it was a game bug). Liked the large parking lot with the buses and the fights there too, tanks were a nice touch even though I wasn't expecting them that early. Last metro station also looked really nice. So far there's been quite the amount of doors in those maps which has been kind of messing with my head, but I'm enjoying the exploration, I just tend to get lost a bit as the layouts can be a bit labyrinthine. Found 3 secrets, missed 4.
So far there are two things I would recommend as gameplay improvements, 1/ would be to stay away from decorative doors in levels that are especially door heavy (but I've noticed you don't necessarily abuse them) and 2/ this one is pretty important, I think fire extinguishers should never be just decorative and always generate some kind of destruction in the wall because it's tempting for a player who gets stuck to shoot them all to try and unlock a path, only to waste ammo and maybe even health for nothing if the sprite is just a prop. Also I've noticed a lot of them clip into the nearby walls (and so do certain enemies through certain doors) because they're placed so close to them but maybe that's an eDuke thing.
Now I'll keep playing and will edit this post later with my impressions on the other levels. So far the episode feels rather canonic (especially Bus Depot with a strong central theme and nice clean aesthetics) and was built with taste and coherence, it's quite the instant classic.
EDIT -
Metro Line: Damn I was expecting to really like this one but honestly the sprites getting in the way made the whole experience so claustrophobic and unrealistic (having to jump over the seats, avoid the bars etc.) I'm sorry to say it really annoyed me. Plus the location of the blue keycard made no sense to me, I spent fifteen minutes trying to find it using logic and going back and forth from one end to the train to the other only to have to cheat in Mapster and realize it was waiting behind a random door in a pitch black place. Concept is cool but this is an even better example than the first map of one that could have really benefitted from a bigger scale or a different construction, decorative clutter should never get in the way like this, I would have preferred if none of it had collision. Also opening every door to find myself nose to nose with a Pigcop is starting to grow old real quick, lol. Design-wise it was cool with some creative use of the textures but built on a scale 25% larger would have been a lot more practical in my opinion.
12 Floor: Now this one was exciting, I really liked the focus on vertical exploration, and although the hallways in the hotel were simplistic with that texture (and redundant with those fake doors) I thought they looked all the more realistic, it really conveyed the feel of some motel chain. Vents were again too dark and then I realized the fresh eDuke install I'm using to play this had the wrong renderer set up by default, which explains a lot of my former frustration regarding the darkness. Unfortunately I did run out of jetpack super quick trying to explore the heights of the map to find more windows, unlike Merlijn finding my way around the level and which places could be explored (the higher sections of some vents and elevators but not some others, building windows that were transparent or not etc.) took me a lot of time and trial and error, so that one jetpack in the trashcan on the street wasn't enough. I would recommend hiding an extra jetpack on each floor, really as the rest of the map rewards exploration. It also took me forever to realize the rooftop I was supposed to access wasn't the one of the hotel, but I should have been paying more attention to the view screen. General observation but I think it's weird that aliens can shoot through certain windows everywhere in your maps, you should definitely make those blockable and/or change the monster set-up, I think monsters should only be able to shoot through fences or breakable glass but not plain glass textures.
Office Rush: I thought this one was nothing short of the perfect office map, design looked really unique and the floor plan and navigation was a lot better and more intuitive to me here. Pipebomb puzzle was really nice and a good remember of how the previous map had ended, I'm not sure I would have found that vent easily without the security camera too so it's good that you put it (I explored that shelf early in the map but missed the vent the first time around and kept going assuming there was nothing there, until I saw the hint).
Haunted Asylum: Had to bump the gamma up and turn my lights off to play this one or I wouldn't have been able to see anything, maybe that's why I turned out to really like it, the spooky theme with the Octabrains and transparent enemies is carried out really well (although some of the Commanders encounters and behind-your-back respawns are pretty cheap) and the design and texture set is very simple but elegant, I really like the hallways and that broken floorboard was really sweet, I think I noticed a secret there but couldn't open it. I spotted two or three doors you forgot to fix the panning of, unless that was intentional (the textures on the corridor side, maybe there are more on the other side in some the rooms). Maybe that's also why I spotted the red key right away unlike Merlijn and Mikko, I could tell there was something behind that wall from two different locations and in terms of progression, here it made sense not to go back to the area before the blue key door and there were only so many rooms past that point. Found it by pressing that one portrait by the way, usually when you hide a switch behind decoration like this I'd recommend to make the decorative item look a bit off or out of place, for instance here you could have used just one portrait on that wall and/or maybe hung it upside down. Also here the fake doors bothered me a little less since a lot more of the doors in the level could be opened and the layout was rather straightforward, so there was more reward for the effort and less confusion. Map took me 16 minutes and the last twist was a nice touch. Maybe my favorite of the pack so far (and one of the most memorable for sure).
Mess Mall!: Oh holy shit, now this one is by far my favorite. Fantastic design, gameplay flew like (flying) butter, perfect use of the respawns and general monster placement. Loved the unusual texturing choice for a mall coupled with the few neons and creative shop windows, and also the layout with top and bottom floor. I kept the gamma up from the last level to play this one though, so I can understand why people would complain about it being too dark, it's actually quite a shame the beauty of this map is so hidden in the darkness, it's OK to make dark maps but in my opinion then you should adjust the visibility of the whole map accordingly (bump it up, maybe to the max) so that it never becomes playable despite its qualities. Loved the mood, progression, action, everything in this level, nothing bad to say about it besides the visibility thing; could easily see it fit as a bonus level in LA Meltdown in my opinion, sandwiched in between E1L1 and E1L2, like the equivalent of Freeway in Shrapnel City, that's how much it impressed me.
New Stadium: sweet way of wrapping it up and a nice tribute to the original game, honestly this pristine stadium with all the nice blue seats and sweet colors looked so sweet it's all my eyes could catch during the firefight, too bad the boss is so easy. I was disappointed that you kept it stuck in place when you could have had it walk across the arena though, here it was a bit anticlimactic getting ready for a tough fight only to end up shooting a still target.
Thank you for your work and I hope to see more of your levels in the future, that was a great experience! And congrats again on the release! Cheers.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 October 2020 - 08:04 PM
#20 Posted 29 October 2020 - 08:55 PM
Quote
As the title implies, your whole journey as Duke will be of the urban kind, with a feel somewhat reminiscent of popular community add-on Metropolitan Mayhem. Spoiling every level individually and thus the sense of progression would be a shame, but it can still be said that every single one of them bears a strong sense of location (some more than others) and successfully pulls off specific themes or concepts that have only rarely been tackled in Duke, all the while never really falling into the gimmicky.
Some of that experimentation turned out for the best and some for the worst, though; for instance there is one train level that looks magnificent, yet is completely unpractical to navigate due to the amount of decorative sprites cluttering the player space. Or, also, a hotel map in which extensive use of the jetpack is required, but what's always an interesting concept falls flat here due to the scarcity of the item, making for a good chance that Duke's ride might softlock. A few of the levels also use too many decorative doors, in-your-back respawns and at least a pair is way too dark (especially if you don't play in Classic mode as intended). A handful of keys and puzzles might feel a bit mean, too.
What's good is really good, though. The entire adventure feels almost canonic due to how much respect was given to the traditional style with each map, be it in terms of clean looks, straightforward and coherent storywriting, and science in the layouts and transitions from level to level. The author really only took liberties when it comes to picking new themes (for instance, a bus station or a mall), experimenting with concepts (that jetpack level) or enhancing visuals - not counting that train level, sprite work has been put to excellent use everywhere to simulate both small objects and entire floors depending on the settings, and it always looks really clean all the while usually consisting in uncommon tile picks. A lot of the maps are littered with singular instances of smart constructions, small or big, and the result only complements the classic tone instead of clashing with it. The mall level is an especially great representation of that, in addition to being a fantastic map altogether.
In the end, Downtown Journey is an instant classic, and another sweet reminder that sometimes simple is best. It has its own quirks and flaws, but also its strengths and then some more when you count those directly inherited from the greatness of the original game design, which it certainly doesn't shun. The quality of its attempt at looking and feeling professional all the while comprising some nice bouts of creativity definitely justifies its place in your Duke 3D directory.
Rating: 92
This post has been edited by ck3D: 29 October 2020 - 09:29 PM
#22 Posted 31 October 2020 - 11:16 AM
#23 Posted 31 October 2020 - 11:30 AM
This post has been edited by ck3D: 31 October 2020 - 11:30 AM
#24 Posted 09 November 2020 - 03:11 AM
What could still be improved IMO:
1) There are not many shotgun shells in general. Even on POC I rarely had more than 20-25 shells available. That made things needlessly hard in some spots, especially at the beginning of the first map. Occasional fallbacks to pistol in tight quarters aren't nice.
2) I was missing some light switches, especially in "Haunted Asylum" and "Mess Hall". These two levels would be much more playable with more light (you could deactivate light by default until you flip the switch, still).
3) On "12th Floor", there should be one jetpack on each floor (even the rooftop if you want to go down again) to make absolutely sure you can't run out of jetpack fuel.
4) In "Mess Hall", you have to use a jetpack to fly up a small shaft to reach street level. This passage is a bit glitched. If you jump inside the shaft, you see the grill on the ceiling above you. If you do it again, the grill disappears and the ceiling is lower. You can also get stuck in the middle of that shaft if you drop back down. My guess is some sector effector or whatever is used in this case to do the teleporter effect is not placed 100% correctly. Maybe check that.
5) The boss map was kind of a (small) letdown compared to the rest. It fell short due to its simplicity and lack of detail. I understand that it's a straight-forward thing and shouldn't be much more than what it is, but I just felt like it could have used a bit more polishing. The Emperor also didn't move around inside of the stadium (at least for me), which made the fight quite easy.
And a fair advice, also mentioned by Mikko in his review: Avoid placing essential items like keycards in secret areas. IMO the following three keycards are quite hard to find and maybe you should consider relocating them or add visual hints to make it more obvious where they are:
- Blue keycard in "Metro Line" (no secret, but still hard to find - I suggest lighting up at least the compartment with the keycard in that section)
- Red keycard in "Haunted Asylum" (this one is inside of a secret area - you need to make that handprint switch more obvious to see)
- Blue keycard in "Mess Hall" (here you should also at least place some hint for opening the storage containing the card)
With these adjustments you could easily push your episode from Mikko's 7.5 rating to a 9 or even higher.
This post has been edited by NightFright: 09 November 2020 - 06:56 AM
#25 Posted 18 November 2020 - 01:39 PM
https://forums.duke4.../page__st__1050
Especially the keycards in levels 3, 6 and 7 are easier to find now, improving gameflow considerably.
#26 Posted 29 November 2020 - 07:35 AM
#27 Posted 20 January 2021 - 08:55 PM
#28 Posted 28 January 2021 - 08:16 PM
#29 Posted 28 January 2021 - 11:12 PM
This post has been edited by NightFright: 28 January 2021 - 11:14 PM