[t800]

To High Treason:
Problem is that his attitude also started to affect his professional work. I mean, just listen to his work in Forever and especially World Tour (bleh).

[High Treason]

 t800, on 09 June 2020 - 02:57 AM, said:

To High Treason:
Problem is that his attitude also started to affect his professional work. I mean, just listen to his work in Forever and especially World Tour (bleh).

Haha, now that one is a controversial point, however I do think JSJ's work has been rather poor since DNF. I don't know if it's age or if he just wasn't feeling the character any more, but if there ever were a new Duke game, I do think it would be worth them at least trying someone else before settling on Jon again. Some people contest that it was the recording quality, that the grain of Duke 3D's lines is what made his older work different, but it was still fine in DNMP with clearer recordings, something was just "off" about DNF and WT's lines.

People will disagree, they're free to do that, but I do also remember them disagreeing when they were jonesing for LL & Co. to come back and do more levels. A few people seemingly had trouble with my suggestion that their levels would be mediocre at best when compared to the standards of the time, due to them having 20 years away from designing for Duke3D versus the community who had spent those same 20 years constantly building things for it, that we probably knew a lot of things they didn't, perhaps the could catch up but it would require time that no publisher would give them. The Jon argument reminds me of this. I suppose all we can do is wait and see...
And wait...
And wait...
Actually, that seems like a huge waste of time, there's probably something better to do. I think I'll go and make a start on putting that crappy 286 together.

[OpenMaw]

 Tea Monster, on 05 June 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

So wait, you are ditching your appreciation of Duke Nukem, not because of 25 years of mismanagement and heartbreak, but because "Liberals"?

This is the craziest shit I've seen on here ever. And there has been some crazy shit here, I shouldn't have to tell you that.

I didn't see how this 'political discussion' went, but if it's anything like the usual standard of 'debate' on Duke4.net, then I'd withhold judgement on JSJ till we know more. Just saying.

Please read what I wrote. It doesn't matter that Jon St John is a staunch liberal. I don't care. Plenty of liberal friends in my 200 friends on FB. My sister and brother are staunch liberals.

What matters is the way he has abused his fans over the last three years. Not just over political disagreements.

Erin Starry, again, a long time Duke fan and someone who has met Jon at cons, has even said he even acts like a dickhead at cons. You know what she did to get blocked?

She asked why I was blocked. Both she and another member asked Jon for pictures of this conversation of personal attacks that he claimed went back and forth. He then deleted the whole post.

Oh I totally admit my post on my page was personal in nature, but I also call a spade a spade. Jon st John is a pussy who can't handle opinions different to his own. I stand by those words 100%. They happen to be factually goddamn accurate. But that post was also after he blocked me, not before. He didn't block me in response to that post, I made that post in response to him and his shit-talking.

This is a man who just a few days before all this was ripping into Joe Siegler for liking the Sonic Movie.



By the way, he doesn't even like Big The Cat. He has upset some of his fans at cons by being a real douche to them about Big The Cat merch. He has publicly made an ass of himself about that. Blocked people over jokes regarding it.

Now he cares, because it was paycheck he didn't get. Sega doesn't tend to like it when people bash their IPs like that.

I literally told you exactly what I said before it was deleted. I have shown you everything else that has been said, warts and all.

The only reason I can't screen grab it is because Jon blocked me, and if he did what he always does he deleted the posts, too. I've had people try and go look for me to see if t hey could find my comments. Poof. Gone. He does that every time.

• He says something.
• Someone replies with disagreements.
• He screams them down. Calls them an asshole/troll/douche.
• Blocks them.
• Changes the narrative to be that he was the victim of an personal attack/trolling.

 Defiant Ron, on 05 June 2020 - 12:06 PM, said:

Here's some free advice for those viewing this thread.
If you are a fan of JSJ and you want to be friends with him, Do not, I repeat, DO NOT DISCUSS POLITICS WITH HIM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. AND IF HE EVER TRIES TO START A POLITICAL CONVERSATION, TELL HIM THAT YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED AND THAT HE SHOULD KEEP POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS OUT OF THE FRIENDSHIP AT ALL TIMES.

Thank you.

I wish it was that simple. Jon's antics are NOT LIMITED TO POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS.

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Remember a while back on this very forum during shortly before the reveal of that awful Bombshell trailer?
You and I started to notice some bullshit on Frederik Schreiber's side about still owning the Duke IP and I called him out on it, he responded by blocking me on FB and then coming here to this forum and claiming that he blocked me because I harassed him, which you and I both knew that was bullshit.

I hated his guts for a long time and I still do, fast forward to today, my hatred for him only grew when he virtue signaled about the past Bombshell designs and handled the Ion Fury controversy very very poorly with more virtue signaling and donating MY money to an organization that I didn't agree with.

Oh I remember. "That's not some shit you just forget."

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Despite that all, I still ended up buying Ion Fury and even got the Switch version.
Because as much as I hate that son of a bitch, I respect the members of this forum who put their heart and soul into making the game more, even though I didn't really like the game.
I still won't purchase anything else from Fred's 3D Realms going forward, even if Voidpoint ends up making another game under them, new 3D Realms is too tainted in my mind.

I bought it to support VoidPoint and Eduke32,

Unfortunately going forward I will have to strongly consider the choice before I make a purchase, given that it seems like there are a great number of these shady scum in the pot. If Jon is involved in any considerable way I may have to stay away.

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Yet I still love Brutal Legend, because that was made back when he wasn't a pathetic piece of trash.

See, but that's just the thing. Was he always this way, and we just didn't know, or was this something that occurred over time? I don't know. In the case of Jon St John I have three years of this behavior to look back on and realize just how uncomfortable it has been to watch it, and have to struggle between supporting him, and supporting fellow community members.

It's one thing to say "Fuck Donald Trump."

It's another to say "If you're a fan of mine and you support Donald Trump FUCK YOU."

That's not an exaggeration. He has said that and things to that effect. Both on Twitter and Facebook.

So who is the bigger person in that equation? See, personally I think if you look at a situation like that and you ignore it, you're not being the bigger person. You're letting the cancer fester and grow.

I could at least hope that maybe that would go away with time. People get fired up and hostile when it comes to politics sometimes. And then it goes away. It didn't go away. It was just continual behavior. So, here we are.

Of course some people are just refusing to actually read what is going on and instead want to take this to be about the politics.

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

yet I still love the original trilogy.

George Lucas never made it a secret what his political stance was, but he kept that stance firmly away from his film work for the most part, and he never attacked his fans for having dissenting opinions. Even when he did go hyper political with the release of Red Tails (And said some pretty stupid things) He still wasn't attacking his fans or making up shit about individual members of his followers to make himself look better.

Jon was the only reason I would have considered buying a Gearbox release, because I know he's hurting and whether the idiot knows it or not I actually cared about him. Not as voice actor, not as childhood icon, but as fellow human being. You probably saw it yourself, he'd post some really worrying shit sometimes about being depressed, borderline to the point of hinting at wanting to off himself on one or two occasions. I even talked with him at one point about the community hiring him to work on a new level pack for Duke. You know what he said? "Talk to my agent." Which is not the way he used to do that.I guess in that sense he has changed, and gotten meaner.

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

What I don't agree with is you throwing away your Duke Legacy, your fan made media, your merch, you're just hurting yourself further by throwing away something that has been a part of your life since you were 8 years old.
Also what are you gonna do about Ion Fury, Rad Rodgers or Ion Fury's possible sequels? Jon is likely gonna be involved in those, are you gonna support them?

That's the thing, though. I'm not. Duke has become an albatross around my neck as it is anyway. Imagine what the handful of us could do if we took our passion and put it into something unique?

Ion Fury is something I support because of the guys here. Future products will be dependent on just how much involvement Jon has. If he has a big role I just won't be able to buy it.

It's the same with Postal. I will support RWS, and I doubt Jon St John will stick around for another one if they can help it.

 xMobilemux, on 05 June 2020 - 08:13 PM, said:

Duke Nukem has no official future in the game's industry, I made my peace with that a while ago, even if a new Duke game does get made, it won't be the Duke we know and love, the only way we're gonna get more of the Duke we know and love is from the modders on this forum, they are the ones to put faith in now.

And I have for a long time. People like Trooper Dan, or the AMC guys. That's what I have been doing. And I would never stop supporting them.

For me,, it's more painful to hang onto the memory of something that really hasn't existed for the last twenty years. It hasn't. The character hasn't been in good shape since Manhattan Project. That was 2002. Everything since then has been fires that were already lit, slowly burning out.

Like I said above, Jon was the only reason i'd consider buying a Gearbox product, to support him. But his behavior with the fans has been abysmal.

I'm sorry brother, I just can't. That's not in me. I'll be posting all of the Duke The Series content, my mock up trailer, and all of that onto The Duke Cave, but I will not be a steward for it anymore. I will not keep or hold onto it anymore.

Because all I can think now is that these people took their entire empire for granted, they built it on arrogance and ego and a holier-than-thou attitude, and when the chips were down they were spitting in the faces of the people that not only put cash in their hands, but were also there to support and maintain a community around their products. I can't abide that.

Anyone who has actually looked at the images of my facebook post and seen the names of the people commenting should recognize a number of those people as having been members of this community going way back. They're good people. They did not deserve to be treated the way they were.

[OpenMaw]

 Tea Monster, on 06 June 2020 - 04:52 AM, said:

But what Commando Nukem is saying is that someone that a voice actor, who played a role in his favourite game isn't actually like the character that you see on screen. That's the same thing selling all your Warcraft stuff because one of the cast members doesn't like who you voted for president.

That is not what I have been saying. At all. This is about how he treats his fans. Not about who he does or doesn't like politically.

I already knew that Jon was not Duke Nukem from the many many rants he would go on about guns, Republicans, and misogyny. His approach was always the same "FUCK YOU" approach.

My mother is a MAGA-hat wearing Trump supporter. I don't agree with that. I don't say "Fuck you, you evil piece of shit don't talk to me!" Even that wouldn't be a close enough analogy. It would be more like, not only do I say that, but then I kick her out of the house, lock the door and start calling everyone telling them that she was attacking me and attacking the pets and attacking my wife.

That's what Jon does. All the time.

Now imagine that going on for years with dozens of community members. That's how Jon acted. Has nothing to do with what you said or how nicely or meanly you said it. It has to do with the fact that it wasn't an ass-kissing agreement.

 OccludeOlga, on 06 June 2020 - 09:55 PM, said:

If it helps, it's probably been a decade since I owned anything Duke related except my copies on Steam.

The couple of opportunities to be anywhere near that orbit since then reached the tentative maybe stage but I withdrew. Some of the folks at work who know I sometimes post here have asked if it's cause I'm still dreaming of making a Duke game (it's even come up as something the company could consider trying for) but I generally assure them no... please no... I come back for the fine folks on both sides...

Spoiler

...and the scum and villainy.

I can understand why you wouldn't, given the experiences you had. Good or bad, It's a lot.

The community is all that matters at this point.

 High Treason, on 08 June 2020 - 01:16 PM, said:

When I hire a plumber to repair the toilet, I'm not really interested in the plumber's personal life or opinions so much as I am in their ability to competently repair the toilet. If somebody else is employing the plumber, then I really don't care, so long as water doesn't run all over my boots when I pull the chain.

When the plumber decides to raid your fridge and take a shit in your bathtub, does it start to matter then? It's not about the plumber having an opinion.

Please. Read what I wrote. It's not about his opinion of Trump. It's about his treatment of the fans. I wish I could say it was even limited to just the fans, he burns bridges in professional circles too. His meltdown not that long ago on Twitter towards Randy and Gearbox was proof of that.

I've had plenty of disagreements about politics on many occasions. Debates that raged for days and days. I'm still good friends with those people.

[High Treason]

I'd consider this more akin to you deciding to hang out with the plumber after he finished work. This was on Jon's page after all.

I'm not saying that what he did was good, or right, but it does seem to be par for the course with what I hear about social media.

[gemeaux333]

That's what TRUE Duke Nukem fans TRULLY expect from him :



Come to your home, rip of your head, shit down your neck and put the head back on the neck !

[OpenMaw]

 High Treason, on 09 June 2020 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'd consider this more akin to you deciding to hang out with the plumber after he finished work. This was on Jon's page after all.

I'm not saying that what he did was good, or right, but it does seem to be par for the course with what I hear about social media.

You're not saying it was good or right on one hand, but you're making very weak excuses for it on the other. It may have been his page, and sure, he has every right to block and remove whoever he wants to. I'm not debating that. Again, his political opinion is not the issue here. The issue is him literally lying to/about and trash talking his fans.

I don't expect Jon to be Duke Nukem. I expect him to be the professional voice actor that he lists himself as on his resume. His behavior is not professional in any context.

I tell you what, he ain't a plumber i'd want doing work in my house, especially given how much he phones it in as of late.

His behavior extends beyond just social media. Like I said before he's treated fans poorly at cons, and acted like a total jerk to people who up until that moment absolutely loved his work.

[Fox]

 t800, on 09 June 2020 - 02:57 AM, said:

To High Treason:
Problem is that his attitude also started to affect his professional work. I mean, just listen to his work in Forever and especially World Tour (bleh).

Nah.

From what I recall, they told him he has been doing Duke for a while, and he knows better how to do the character.

But it's not true, he needs some direction.

[gemeaux333]

I think its for the best that Duke Nukem renew its audiance, not rely on its assets, especially fanatics (there is fan in fanatics) who think they can tell Jon St John what to do while he have all the dispensable and especially indispensable talent to do the work and have been working not only on Duke Nukem for decades but also Big the Cat and many others... honestly... "grid your teeth"... it sounded bad/vintage in Duke 3D because hardware quality was below the base of the earth back then, Jon was and is always equal to himself like Duke is, and Duke will always be Duke no matter on what !
So yes I expect Jon St John to be the Duke, BALLS OF STEEL !

But I guess/think Jon wouldn't be mad that someone direct him (for a change)...

[Forge]

it's easy to say, 'separate the art from the artist' when you do it from a distance.
when you have a running relationship with the artist and they shit on you, it's going to be a bit more personal and difficult to keep their art around as a reminder.


that's all fine, but this is starting to drag with these huge walls of text.
here's my perception of it

by your own admission you knew for at least three years that JSJ had a certain behavior pattern.
You didn't have a major issue with it until it happened to you.

I feel for you, but you got bit by your own dog that you knew bit people, now euthanize it and move on.

[Radar]

D-list actors are some of the most pretentious people anyway. Waaah, so what if you can't make it as an aspiring actor? You and a billion other people. Time to get a 9-5 job.

[UltravoxSapphire]

 OpenMaw The Whiny Bit- I Mean Commando Nukem, on 09 June 2020 - 04:51 AM, said:

I wish it was that simple. Jon's antics are NOT LIMITED TO POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS.

Well here's a better idea:
If he says something you disagree with, DON'T SAY ANYTHING TO HIM ABOUT IT!

[Jimmy]

You're missing the larger point that JSJ is a cunt about everything, same behaviour patterns as Bruce Campbell.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Hey faggot. What's wrong with Bruce Campbell?

[Radar]

Lmao you're such a hypocrite dude. You'd get banned for saying that on any other forum.

[Jimmy]

Bruce is a fine actor but he's a notorious fuckin jerk to fans, especially when quite a few years ago he was only working shit jobs like being a flashlight security guard.


In other news one of the mods changed my username to "FAGGOT" and I will never change it now.

[gemeaux333]

That is why we love Bruce Campbell, asside from Evil Dead tetralogy

[Jimmy]

I don't know what you mean by "we", I actually dislike the fact that he's a hot shot asshole quite a bit. He'd be nowhere without fans of his work, but he's always first to shit on them.

JSJ has the same problem. They both seek sycophants.

[gemeaux333]

Yes, "we" , first plurial person !

Sincerely, fans in the right mind don't care about foolish details, love and life are about what you give, not what you get !

[Jimmy]

You still don't understand at all. Nobody likes an egotistical jerk.

Bruce and JSJ are quite comparable.

When Ash VS Evil Dead was cancelled by Starz, BC blamed the fans who actually supported the product, instead of the fact that Starz was an outdated and unpopular platform that was largely unavailable outside the US. Yes, people pirated the series, but only because Starz provided no real value to consumers. Starz is mostly trash and softcore porno. It's not Disney+ which has dozens of classic films, cartoons, + new series like the Mandolorian.

Much the same, JSJ blames the fans for DNF's failure when nothing could be further from the truth.

In both cases major mistakes were made way before the fans ever touched it.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Thanks, faggot, for responding. And I actually agree with that assessment. This kind of shit is why I'd never add any of my "heroes" on Facebook or in any way seek interaction with them. No need to ruin it for myself. I make the distinction between the artist and the work, but it's still painful when someone turns out to be a cunt.

 R A D A Я, on 09 June 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

Lmao you're such a hypocrite dude. You'd get banned for saying that on any other forum.

Literally his name, isn't it? I support the rights of sexual minorities to self designate however they choose. God bless you.

[DustFalcon85]

 FAGGOT, on 09 June 2020 - 09:53 PM, said:

Much the same, JSJ blames the fans for DNF's failure when nothing could be further from the truth.

Hmm. How come JSJ didn't blame George Broussard for DNF's failure?

Hypothetically if DNF was released in 1998/1999. Game review sites like GameSpot and IGN would shit on it because they view the Build engine or id Tech 2 a/k/a Quake 2 engine that runs on it for being "outdated". Back then the game industry was hellbent for seeking graphical innovation. The newer the game engine the more time, money and effort to work on it. In hindsight graphical and gameplay innovation and evolution needs to slow down a bit.

Moral of the story: Pick out a game engine to use for DNF and stick with it.




"So either we're absolutely either stupid and clueless, or we believe in on what we are working on.."
-George Broussard


Ultimately, the blame falls on George.

[Kristian Joensen]

That video is pretty misleading. For instance he claims that they got $ 12 million from Take Two for the publishing rights. That is NOT correct. Very badly researched.

[Phredreeke]

DNF was never going to use Build engine to my knowledge.

[gemeaux333]

Jon St John doesn't blame either Georges Broussard or Randy Pitchford, the first created the character and the second brought him back from the abyss

And he doesn't blame the fans, he highly respect them, he just ditch those who have seemingly gone a bit too far (I have no reason to doubt this assessment)

[Phredreeke]

 gemeaux333, on 10 June 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:

Jon St John doesn't blame either Georges Broussard or Randy Pitchford, the first created the character and the second brought him back from the abyss

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Didn't realise we had a Randy fanboy here

[TerminX]

Fuck social media. Political viewpoints have invaded, infested, and completely fucking ruined everything. It's a dumpster fire and the flames are just getting higher because all anyone wants to do anymore is attack people for their viewpoints with this black-and-white, us-vs-them bullshit.

[gemeaux333]

That is why I prefer republic to democracy

[Darkus]

 TerminX, on 10 June 2020 - 08:43 AM, said:

Fuck social media. Political viewpoints have invaded, infested, and completely fucking ruined everything. It's a dumpster fire and the flames are just getting higher because all anyone wants to do anymore is attack people for their viewpoints with this black-and-white, us-vs-them bullshit.

I'll blame politicians, corporates or whatever gave internet access to "anyone and anywhere" to that.

Anyway, to explain what happens to my old favorite franchises, the analogy with the Teddy Bear at the beginning of this video clearly shows how I feel (no, I never watched Dr Who, but I still feel the same for it's viewers):

[Never Forgotten]

 Phredreeke, on 10 June 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

DNF was never going to use Build engine to my knowledge.

A brief period between 1996 and 1997, but the only things made were a couple of voxel based items, and a pigcop, but it was more or less them dicking around.