[Micky C]

Man, it's a great time to be a part of the eduke community!

[Ninety-Six]

Micky C, on 06 March 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

Man, it's a great time to be a part of the eduke community!

damn straight. Alien Armageddon, AMC E3, the resurrection of WGR2...

[Micky C]

Ion Maiden of course, and the countless, countless eduke32 improvements that are directly or indirectly related to Ion Maiden.

Not to mention the all-new eduke32 ports for Redneck Rampage and Blood, of which the developer has been improving TROR in polymost.

[Perro Seco]

Micky C, on 06 March 2019 - 04:50 PM, said:

the developer has been improving TROR in polymost.

I hope they don't forget about classic renderer, otherwise I'll not be able to enjoy those TROR improvements.

[Micky C]

TROR already works relatively well in classic if you have half a clue what you’re doing. I’ve pulled off some REALLY complex in the classic renderer in the AMC TC. Keep in mind that TROR was originally devised as a polymer-only feature, and that we’re quite lucky it came to classic in the first place, and that it’s as stable as it is.

If polymost TROR is at least as stable as classic, this is absolutely huge news.
Once the new version is available, I’ll stress test it to see how good it really is. The picture oasiz posted looks promising.

[High Treason]

TROR is for pussies!

Spoiler

I don't really like posting WIP stuff early on, but then this was built in 2014 and everyone will have forgotten if it ever comes to fruition. If all goes to plan, this would be the least of my concern regarding technical tomfoolery in the map.
But don't ask me, ask my boss.

[Perro Seco]

Micky C, on 06 March 2019 - 05:39 PM, said:

I’ve pulled off some REALLY complex in the classic renderer

Me too. In fact, current TROR is enough for me. I meant enjoying the new improvements as a player.

High Treason, on 06 March 2019 - 07:02 PM, said:

TROR is for pussies!

Can I know how you did it? I'll understand if you prefer to keep it as a secret until the map is released, but I ask because I'm curious to know how can be that possible without EDuke32. Very impressive!

[Tea Monster]

Blocking sprites?

The new ZBrush is out and it has a few render filters built in. One is actually a 'retro game' filter.

[Perro Seco]

Tea Monster, on 07 March 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blocking sprites?

I'm asking about the sloped roof.

[MusicallyInspired]

n/m

[Ninety-Six]

Damn, that filter actually looks kinda legit.

[Micky C]

 oasiz, on 06 March 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

Big thanks to Nuke.YKT for some new additional fixes (that should go live soon)
From what I can see after some testing, polymost has surpassed classic in terms of TROR rendering stability as it seemed to handle a few corner cases better than classic did.

Apparently mirrors aren't in, but this alone should allow SO much more to be done without going classic-only or polymer.
Still needs more testing but these patches will be a game changer for polymost TROR.

Compared to the current "v1 patch" from the other day, sprites render much better and everything overall is much more stable.

This is taking forever to come out. The AMC TC Episode 4 will probably be released first

[oasiz]

Should be getting it soon I believe. Nuke has been a machine and worked on some other stuff also meanwhile.
I expect there to be a patch/merge and builds soon enough on synthesis. I guess we want to catch any possible side-effects as It's not just plain TROR related bugs that these patches address.

Need to add that island sectors still behave the same as they do with classic so there are still the limitations otherwise.

[oasiz]

Can't say how excited I am about the next patch, tons of cool stuff lined up!

Things like,
VBOs for voxels
Approximate software renderer's relative aligned textures (very close to classic now in poly)
More accurate shading steps for polymost
Very good TROR support for polymost
Masked texture support on slopes (TROR in classic)
One controversial change, bound to be very welcome by mappers

In one (rather heavy) test case I managed to get 60fps to 300fps with voxels.. crazy stuff.
We've been testing a lot of this stuff in IM and it's crazy.

Been bugging TX constantly to push these changes
It's very close to release though and we've managed to fix a few annoyances meanwhile.

Huge props to Nuke.YKT for unfucking polymost.
Can see his changelogs here btw: Github nblood

That one big change is still pending but other than that, I think things are mostly done.

[Trooper Dan]

oasiz, on 18 March 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

VBOs for voxels

Took a look at those changelogs and you weren't kidding. So does VBO on voxels mean we can change their pitch and roll just like models now?

[oasiz]

Mostly just perf related for now. Huge improvements on that front.

[Micky C]

Funnily enough, I was just about to ask about the eduke update. Now I'm really looking forward to it.

oasiz, on 18 March 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:

One controversial change, bound to be very welcome by mappers

Let me guess, you can see blocked walls again in 2D mode

[oasiz]

2D mode walls are taken from the basepal, you could probably edit your own basepal.raw that applies to 2D mode only. It's based on the closest pal entry it can find, you won't find strong magentas in Duke.
I think original build was hardcoded to EGA 16 colour palette instead, where it was quite bright.
For IM they look rather bright since we have some nice purple/pink hues in the palette.

...And this change is way more than that

[oasiz]

changelog1
changelog2
https://dukeworld.co...nthesis/latest/

Controversial change

Spoiler

Huge changes in collision code. i.e. SOS teleportation largely fixed, sprite clipping fixed (you don't climb tall sprites anymore like you used to)
Still a bit wonky but it's being worked on

[TerminX]

Yes, these changes will likely break maps and random CON mods related to jumping, etc. Let us all work together toward a brave new world in which you cannot pass through solid walls and metal grates in sewers do not cause you to explode.

[Trooper Dan]

oasiz, on 19 March 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

Controversial change

Huge changes in collision code. i.e. SOS teleportation largely fixed, sprite clipping fixed (you don't climb tall sprites anymore like you used to)
Still a bit wonky but it's being worked on

Interesting. I'll reserve judgement, but improvements to collision are of course very welcome. On the whole, the EDuke32 team has been extremely conservative about making changes to gameplay that would affect the unmodded game. This has the potential to do just that, depending on how it is implemented. There are maps that depend upon, for example, "ladders" which consist of tall sprites that make the player climb. EDIT: I hadn't seen TX's post when writing that; so it's confirmed that some breakages are expected. Very interesting.

[Ninety-Six]

At least when it comes to the SOS warping I am looking forward to that being fixed. That has been a particular pain in vanilla runthroughs of levels like Tier Drops and Lunatic Fringe, where either you or enemies will just not be there anymore.

[Darkus]

I tested the new version with a fresh install:

- Apparently, SOS warp bug is gone! Now maps like Lunatic Fringe and Tier Drops are playable without problems

- You can now shoot enemies with RPG / Shrinker or freezer, the projectiles now hit them more often, rather that passing thru them.

Other things I noticed (not really problems):

- When you crouch down over a ledge, you fall (unless you're on a slope.)

- When you're shrinking/growing, now the point of view gradually move up/down instead of being instantaneous. (you can even use the third person mode)

- The texture filter option and the console command 'r_usetileshades' are gone (maybe temporary?)

Now the problems:

- In E1L2, I was bumping invisible walls (probably the upper floor) in the dark corridor near the lift.

- Still in sector over sector effect, you can still bump enemies when they are in the other sector of the one you are.

- When coming out from the underwater with a sector that uses TROR effect, the view stick temporary to the ceiling.

- Crash when starting E2L1 Edit: fixed in 7440

[HellFire]

It would be optimal to have a new screen on eduke32 that lets you turn on/off various options (like in ZDOOM) and then put an option on there to keep the original clipping behaviour, otherwise the oldschool dukematch community will simple see Eduke32 as unusable, even when it eventually gets a client/server implementation. I understand the warping/teleporting effect is just a bug, but it's already part of dukematch gameplay and there are multiple maps that deppend on it to be ballanced (e.g. Hollywood holocaust 1v1 is particularly very balanced only because of warps).

Not making this toggleable is a mistake.

[Zaxtor]

turned a texture I've made myself for Oblivion over a decade ago into HRP
Will be in Oblivion HRP.

[Hendricks266]

HellFire, on 19 March 2019 - 02:43 PM, said:

It would be optimal to have a new screen on eduke32 that lets you turn on/off various options (like in ZDOOM) and then put an option on there to keep the original clipping behaviour, otherwise the oldschool dukematch community will simple see Eduke32 as unusable, even when it eventually gets a client/server implementation. I understand the warping/teleporting effect is just a bug, but it's already part of dukematch gameplay and there are multiple maps that deppend on it to be ballanced (e.g. Hollywood holocaust 1v1 is particularly very balanced only because of warps).

Anyone who this actually matters to can stick with Meltdown and hDuke instead of polluting the general community. EDIT:

EDIT2: See later in thread.

[HellFire]

The fuck you're talking about? Wanting to have faithful gameplay just like we have been playing it for 20+ years is "poluting the community"?

Thats a very stubborn way of seeing things hendricks, but OK, if thats how eduke team thinks, then so be it.

[Forge]

Hendricks266, on 19 March 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

Anyone who this actually matters to can stick with Meltdown and hDuke instead of polluting the general community.

The winning of hearts and minds through a scorched earth policy

[Lunick]

I can understand wanting to keep the game how it was for authenticity but warping was never intended in the first place and is made worse by some ports such as Megaton (albeit a fork) which is the choice port for speedrunning now. As for multiplayer, That's not a huge concern right now But the majority of casual players won't care, it's not like other multiplayer Duke source ports are gonna go anywhere.

[TerminX]

I wouldn't personally use words like polluting, but my general opinion is that players who rely on bugs and glitches to win need to "git gud."

Reminds me of how players didn't want to use Atomic Edition when it came out because they couldn't use the "K cheat" anymore.