[Sobek]

I actually did something like that a while back. I took a fairly detailed cityscape construct out of the Google 3D Warehouse, imported it into Blender & retextured it with highres textures, imported it into Duke in split sections, and proceeded to lay down some invisible blocking sprites from DukePlus along with various lowres detail objects (benches, lightpoles, that sort of crap) which worked great. With enough time, I could have setup blocking on the whole city and created something that could be easily moved about within by the player, but it was timewasting and I just dumped it a while back.

However, with Polymer's normal mapping & sexy lighting, I now wish I had kept it At the very least, it could make for a bit of cool on-rails shooting action, a la Matrix Reloaded.

[Geoffrey]

 Tea Monster, on Jul 23 2009, 05:48 AM, said:

If we had some form of blocking for imported models, it would transform map-making pretty much over night.

Suddenly, maps could start looking like stuff out of Unreal III. Instead of tiresomely building your basic level shapes out of sectors, you could whip up something completely in a 3D app that (gasp of shock and surprise) ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE and not like it was made of Duplo.

I don't want to fall back on such an easy argument especially since it's been used to death, but wouldn't it be easier to just, like, map for unreal, if that's what you want? Provided it's mapping we're talking about - not modding (pre-emptive counterargument since con is still easier than coding stuff for other engines -or so I've heard-).

EDIT: not that it wouldn't be insanely cool to see things like that in Duke.

[Roma Loom]

[Sangman]

 Tea Monster, on Jul 23 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

Instead of tiresomely building your basic level shapes out of sectors, you could whip up something completely in a 3D app that (gasp of shock and surprise) ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE and not like it was made of Duplo.

I don't think building as we do now is very tiresome, I'd experience a lot more difficulties with trying to make huge models.

[Jimmy]

I think things like that would really damage creativity.

[quakis]

Captain Awesome, on Jul 23 2009, 09:00 PM, said:

I think things like that would really damage creativity.

I have to agree, there's a thing with creating stuff with sectors and sprites primarily, compared to a simple model. Anyone can go download and slap in a model from the blackrayne website, and everything will just end up looking the same in terms of design. Even today you see people making use of textures/sprites from Duke to create new things that look fresh and original. Otherwise, people would just be using the same old model, because I just know a lot of people won't even bother to make their own assets and just rip them from game X or download from site Y. It's like with HL2 user maps that use the same old model assets from the game over and over, compared to some neat bsp constructions people made back in HL1; but that's also a different subject.

[Stabs]

if you wanted to use 3d models for levels your could use tileset system like oblivion but those levels wouldn't have much freedom in design, but yeh simple prop models like girders to make ceilings more intricate.

we really need to know now if polymer lighting will have shadow maps because its intensive enough without throwing in heaps of high poly models.

we still need the sectors for stuff, it gives it that BUILD charm

[Jblade]

At the end of the day you're just making cars, with 3D cars yeah they might all look the same but it frees you up to make your stuff more innovative in other ways like gameplay, story or whatever.

EDIT: Also Roma Loom that looks awesome and I can't imagine what that door's gonna look like with bump-mapping and parallex

[Sangman]

 James, on Jul 24 2009, 12:03 AM, said:

At the end of the day you're just making cars, with 3D cars yeah they might all look the same

Well how many maps have cars that are just a rectangular sector with those van textures slapped on 'em? I know mine do

Quote

I just know a lot of people won't even bother to make their own assets and just rip them from game X or download from site Y

I doubt this. A model of an entire "map" is quite different than a model of a certain prop or tree or whatever. If Build would only work by inserting big 3D models and the likes instead of using sectors and sprites, those not patient enough to make their own models are just going to say "oh well, fuck Build" rather than "let's rip off level models by others".

[quakis]

I think you've misread my post, as I was specifically refering to prop models.

[Gambini]

I´m along with Quakis and Geoffrey (if i understood them ).

Making things out of sectors and sprites is what kept alive duke all these years. There is no car in a map that looks like another car in another map (unless some fucker rips it). Build has no molds and that´s what makes every new map having its own identity. I wonder how ¨fun¨ would be having those models and usiing them in the same way than thousand of times were them already used...

Every tile, sprite or whatever in duke can look a thousand different ways. Custom content is just there... like cheating...

[Sobek]

I couldn't agree more that building as much as possible in the traditional manner is the very lifeblood of mapping with Duke.

I personally think that models are best used to enhance the gameplay you create with your levels. I love to be able to walk along through a Mapster-built, Polymer lighting-enhanced, uniquely-textured level, and occasionally take a peek out a window or over a fence to see a glorious model doing it's thing in whatever manner was intended. It's almost like breaking a 4th wall... Only not. It's hard to explain. I have one level where, as you're moving through the stage along the ground through some areas thick with trees in the middle of the night, you get a brief moment to stop and look through a gap over a cliff... What you see is a path heading down a mountainside in front of you, out into the distance to a brilliantly realised, detailed city far off, complete with all sorts of buildings, and all the little lights of the vehicles and people moving about amongst it all. It's something that I simply couldn't have achieved to such effect without the support of models, at least not in any way as atmospherically as I managed... But the best part is it just blends seamlessly into the whole 'mythos' of the environment - I'm not sitting there going "Wow, this MODEL looks great!", I'm just enjoying the sight.

Achieving that perfect fusion between hand crafted levels and modelled enhancements is critical, in my opinion. Sprites and sectors alone can only get you so far these days, especially when what you dream to achieve far outstrips what the stock engine can provide. I hate the idea of crafting almost everything out of models though, that would essentially defeat the purpose of using this engine in the first place. But using such things to merely improve the work you've already done is fantastic - especially when used with a little creativity and not just slapped in left right & centre, for shits and giggles.

Creativity is key, and while it may not be apparent (at least from me), I sure as hell like to try my best.

God damn I rant on a bit sometimes. It's just that I never feel like I've made my point convincingly enough

[Gambini]

I like what you do, certainly your work seems (-seems- because i never had the chance to play it ) to have that touch you´re describing. I´m a hot head and just reacted to the those comments about how tiresome is building things out of original resources. Creativity can show up in many shapes, for example i never could figure myself liking a map designed purposely for the HRP, but there is this guy Damn, and really like what he is doing.

[Sobek]

Hey, we're all passionate about our individual styles I guess

Nobody's played any of my stuff (bar close friends) for no reason other than I'm anally retentive and everything has to be PERFECT before I let anyone else touch it. I hate myself for that sometimes

Do you mean DanM? Because I would have to agree there. He's got this old-school style to mapping that I just love.

[Sangman]

quakis, on Jul 24 2009, 01:44 AM, said:

I think you've misread my post, as I was specifically refering to prop models.

Ah yes, I think I misunderstood Tea Monster's original post as well.

Yeah I have no problems with people reusing prop models. As long as they make sense and look good in the maps that use them it's all fine and dandy with me.

It does become a bit problematic when a builder has a very basic map but fills it with models just to make it look good.

[Sebastian]

Sangman, on Jul 24 2009, 03:55 AM, said:

It does become a bit problematic when a builder has a very basic map but fills it with models just to make it look good.

You mean pretty much like every map in Half-Life and Half-Life 2?

[Sangman]

Dunno, haven't played many custom HL (2) maps and the ones I did looked good/great.

[Geoffrey]

Roma Loom, on Jul 23 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

Very cool! You don't have to post ingame shots of it if you don't want to by the way.

[Roma Loom]

The diffuse texture for 1102 isn't ready yet but I've tested it ingame. Still need to tweak the heighmap to avoid the artifacts and keep the depth... Plagman is giving me advices how to make things right atm in #EDuke32 channel...

few pics just for the sake of it:

[zchri9]

Roma Loom, on Jul 24 2009, 12:15 PM, said:

The diffuse texture for 1102 isn't ready yet but I've tested it ingame. Still need to tweak the heighmap to avoid the artifacts and keep the depth... Plagman is giving me advices how to make things right atm in #EDuke32 channel...

few pics just for the sake of it:

Looking very nice!

[Stabs]

heh my old school style

iam an old school gamer, system shock 2 is still the best FPS ever as far as iam concerned, i get alot of my style by doing alot of lighting & a "how would chuck norris solve this problem?" approach. another thing that always inspired me in my approach to map making was the old beta one and two moon station maps, they were just epic with great design

how do i get a texture like that? i work very well with transparency and layer blending, is it a hue / saturation thing?

[Geoffrey]

Awesome Roma Loom!

[Roma Loom]

It's possible to get the heightmap by hand-drawing - but it's total braindamage for complex stuff like this door to keep all the stuff in your head, what's lower and what's higher... Better to model the needed details or better to model all the stuff and than make a render of ZDepth component and then tweak the contrast and brightness.

[Gambini]

Giving the last touchs with Mikko Sandt to the Dukeplus Community Build Project. Gonna be released in a matter of minutes

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Sebastian]

My first try with a tablet to do custom armor graphics.



I'd love to do it more hi-res and from scratch, but I don't know if I have the patience. At least not yet.

edit: Link's not working for me. Might just need to give it some more time...

[Sangman]

Cool start Rusty Nails

[Sebastian]

Thanks! I like it, but I'm not sure if I'm really up for making the rest of all the frames. It's much harder to do than what you really think from the start.

[Gambini]

I always wondered about how artists do those sprites with eight angles...

Would not be usefull to make a dummy model, take screenshots of it in every angle and then drawing the sprite over it?

[Sobek]

Gambini, on Jul 30 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

I always wondered about how artists do those sprites with eight angles...

Would not be usefull to make a dummy model, take screenshots of it in every angle and then drawing the sprite over it?

What did they used to do back in the Doom days or whatever... Make a little model of your character, take photographs against a greenscreen, and just cut out your model from the pitcture to turn it into a sprite? Just got to be half decent at making little models

[Jimmy]

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Models
As an "8bit artist", and an aspiring sculptor, I'd love to try this sometime.