[Hendricks266]

 Forge, on 21 August 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

the only correct answer (using human logic, not love) would have been to kill eve, adam, and the serpent as soon as eve bit the apple

why shouldn't he just kill the serpent in advance, like dan's analogy

[Kyanos]

 R A D A Я, on 20 August 2020 - 06:27 PM, said:

Which gnostic writings do you recommend?

Pistus Sophia.
The Perfection of Christ.
The Gospel of Thomas.
The Gospel of Mary. (what remains)
The Gospel of Truth.


Which forms of Gematria do you recommend?

[Jimmy]

 The Overman, on 20 August 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

You don't have to be an atheist to want to attack the bible

I am not an atheist

I like attacking the bible

You're posting cringe, again.

 The Overman, on 20 August 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

but I want to clarify in this, God was alone in the universe, for eons,
he somehow learned how to create things and life and other dimensions over time out of utter boredom,
the idea that that kind of isolation, and power does not take a huge toll on a mind is idiotic.

That's a big roll of assumptions.

 The Overman, on 20 August 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

This idea of god allowing evil because we don't understand such a powerful being and everything works so perfectly into his unquestionable will,
explain to me word for word with scripture about how a man raping his prepubescent daughter works towards gods will
then afterwards explain to me and give me justification why I should worship a god who works such things into his will

God's will is that people make good choices. Life is a test. It's not God's fault if you fail. It is yours.

 The Overman, on 20 August 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

even with all that info it's still up to me to make a decision
and with all that info
on judgement day
I will tell god to go fuck himself

Fucking edgy.

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

For that move to be plausible, freedom has to be something of great value. In particular, its value would have to be incomparable to the suffering caused by evil choices. If it was simply an equation of X amount of freedom balances with Y amount of suffering, then I don't think it will work, because you will always be able to describe a case where god should have stepped in (and didn't). Reminder for anyone who has lost the plot: if god is good and perfect, then if god ought to intervene, god will intervene. So, it would seem that freedom would have to have a higher order of value such that no amount of suffering caused by a free choice would justify taking the choice away. This would make sense if the whole point of this shitshow is to test people, and the suffering (or pleasure) they experience along the way is simply irrelevant.

You have all the pieces but you're choosing not to put it together.

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

But there's a problem. More than one, but here's one: If freedom is so important, then why are things set up in such a way that one person's free choice can completely obliterate the freedom of another person, or people? It's not a fair test (or even a test at all) if your freedom gets taken away by another person before you even get a chance to make the very choices you are supposedly being tested on.

Destroying other people's freedom is the highest sin.

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

If the point was to test people, then it would make more sense to put each person in their own habitat where they can make free choices that don't impinge on the freedom of others. You (as god) could even provide each person with their own simulation so that they each believed they were interacting with others.

Prove that this isn't exactly what is happening.

 R A D A Я, on 21 August 2020 - 03:46 AM, said:

I already know that. I mean, the Bible says so. What I need is a source that the gnostics awaited the Christ.

They aren't referred to as "pre-Christian" for no reason, dude.

[Jimmy]

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

I never implied that the babies or helpless victims of any age would be sent to hell. My point was that, whatever purpose is served by the existence of evil, it's not serving that purpose for them. Stating that "limiting the freedom of others is also evil" is only the starting point of a response and just leads back to the problems I was alluding to.

You'd be wrong to think NPC's don't exist. The Demiurge is a mindless creator. He doesn't think about what he creates. The Demiurge's jealousy arises from his creations that are also touched by God.

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

Only a person who is deeply invested in the theology would think that statement makes god look good. You're saying that god makes creatures that are inherently evil, and then tortures them. That's actually a worse indictment of god than anything I said.

You're applying human concepts to inhuman perspectives. The Demiurge makes creatures that are inherently evil. God gives some of those creations his spark. Satan gives his spark to others. Some are just husks.

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

That's a stawman. A world can have plenty of bad things that happen in it that challenge people, give them grief, force them to learn, etc., without having genocide, kids with cancer and stuff like that. At least it seems that way. The response I expected is more along the lines of "well it seems that way but you are wrong because you don't see the whole picture".

You sound like a child who doesn't understand why he must be sent to his room when he was a jerk at the dinner table. I don't mean that to be insulting, but rather the crux of it is that you're upset that bad things have to exist. For every good there is an equal evil. Balance.

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

Yes, the U.S. law protecting it's people against violent crime is evil.

Laws don't protect anyone.

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

Christians last I checked made monarchies
Allowed the church to be a part of the state

They also destroyed monarchies and broke away from the Church itself. Your point is moot. Charlie was right, the Bible is the most liberalizing document that ever existed.

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

Atheists have nothing to do with monarchies
and nothing to do with allowing the church to be a part of government

>looks at Roman Empire

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

As mortal humans, we think it is praiseworthy if another human intervenes to prevent the consequences of an evil choice. This is often the case even when using lethal force. For example, if an armed would-be school shooter is killed by security before getting an opportunity to fire a shot, that would be considered praiseworthy. But this involves active intervention. The perpetrator has made an evil choice, and security intervenes before further evil choices can be made to prevent harmful consequences. Why is it okay for humans to do it but evil if god does it? If anything, it seems to me that this gets it backwards. The reason we are very reluctant to give other humans that power is that we are suspicious of them, and often rightly so. We suspect their motives and judgment. But if god is a benevolent and omniscient being, then god is in a perfect position to make those decisions. Again, no one is saying that god should arbitrarily limit human freedom, we are only suggesting that a benevolent god would be justified to intervene for the same reason that humans are, and by definition would be much more trustworthy to do so.

Who said it was evil if God does it? Furthermore, it is good if humans do it. Maybe God does intervene by putting his people in the right place at the right time. Maybe some of the time those people fail to do what they know they should do. You're assuming that God does not intervene in human affairs purely because it may be done in a way you can't see it.

[Kyanos]

 R A D A Я, on 21 August 2020 - 03:46 AM, said:

What I need is a source that the gnostics awaited the Christ.

The source for that is the New Testament. Gnosticism is Christianity, Paulism and Yawhism are inherently Mysticism.

[Danukem]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

Who said it was evil if God does it?

Radar did, in direct reply to me. He wrote "Because limiting the freedom of others is also evil." and he was clearly referring to god.

In any case, your nonstandard views involving the demiurge and other things that deviate from vanilla Christianity are different enough that my objections don't apply without significant modification. You are even willing to entertain the idea that people aren't actually committing injustices on each other (when you wrote "Prove that this isn't exactly what is happening.") In effect, your views are different enough that my examples don't really apply.

[Jimmy]

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 04:38 PM, said:

Radar did, in direct reply to me. He wrote "Because limiting the freedom of others is also evil." and he was clearly referring to god.

Draw deeper. Where does this belief Radar believes come from?

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 04:38 PM, said:

In any case, your nonstandard views involving the demiurge and other things that deviate from vanilla Christianity are different enough that my objections don't apply without significant modification. You are even willing to entertain the idea that people aren't actually committing injustices on each other (when you wrote "Prove that this isn't exactly what is happening.") In effect, your views are different enough that my examples don't really apply.

I'm explaining that the standard view is wrong, which is why these "But!' arguments even exist. Vanilla Christianity is cucked intentionally to sow doubt. And my point is a little more complicated than that, people are surely committing injustices. But we can only verify our own experiences. No man can see through the eyes of another.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

God's will is that people make good choices. Life is a test. It's not God's fault if you fail. It is yours.

Again give me the scripture not some opinion that I already clarified that I don't give a shit about,
as you like radar have already proved that you are unreasonable.

Life is not a test of good or evil
It's a test of your belief

Jobs situation was a test of his belief

I will choose hell because fuck god and everything he stands for
I don't give a shit if it's cringe or not

Stating that a good man can go to hell
and hitlers protestant self can go to heaven
means that heaven is not a place I want to go to.

I'd rather be getting railed next to Nietzsche
then kneeling with Hitler

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

Destroying other people's freedom is the highest sin.

Blasphemy is the highest sin

If you destroy other peoples freedom you still go to heaven.

If you do not believe in jesus you go to hell.

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

>looks at Roman Empire

You live in the world of imagination if you think the romans or the visigoths were atheists

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

Laws don't protect anyone.

You want to play a game of pedantics with me

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

Who said it was evil if God does it? Furthermore, it is good if humans do it. Maybe God does intervene by putting his people in the right place at the right time. Maybe some of the time those people fail to do what they know they should do. You're assuming that God does not intervene in human affairs purely because it may be done in a way you can't see it.

Show me the scripture.

And show me where god displays favoritism towards anyone but his own people and people that want to believe in a higher power such as him.

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

They also destroyed monarchies and broke away from the Church itself. Your point is moot. Charlie was right, the Bible is the most liberalizing document that ever existed.

Again alluding that christians think A
and atheists think B

is inciting prejudice

[Jimmy]

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

Again give me the scripture not some opinion that I already clarified that I don't give a shit about

You have also clarified that you don't give a shit about the scripture either so I'm not sure what your point is.

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

as you like radar have already proved that you are unreasonable.

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

I will choose hell because fuck god and everything he stands for
I don't give a shit if it's cringe or not

Stating that a good man can go to hell
and hitlers protestant self can go to heaven
means that heaven is not a place I want to go to.

Typical [REDACTED] blathering. Why are all you [REDACTED] like this?
You'll have plenty of time to get to know Hitler.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

You have also clarified that you don't give a shit about the scripture either so I'm not sure what your point is.

Where did I say I didn't give a shit about scripture

and your idea that Hitler isn't in heaven means that you need to look at the requirements there bub.

me stating I can't currently read the bible doesn't mean I don't give a shit about scripture,
It means I literally am unable to read that much scripture unless IDK you give me ~3 years or something to form a response,
Give me scriptural support of your opinion and I might be inclined to believe you.

I literally want scriptural support not to be an asshole,
but I honestly don't have the memory or ability to do so on my own.

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

Typical [REDACTED] blathering. Why are all you [REDACTED] like this?
You'll have plenty of time to get to know Hitler.

And this lazy ass categorizing shit to either get me hard,
or to demean my argument,
means absolutely nothing

[Forge]

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

And show me where god displays favoritism towards anyone but his own people and people that want to believe in a higher power such as him.

the book of Jonah is not about a fish (whale)

 Hendricks266, on 21 August 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

why shouldn't he just kill the serpent in advance

why even create the serpent, or the tree? Or even adam for that matter?
why did God want corrupted humans born with sin and free will?

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Forge, on 21 August 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

the book of Jonah is not about a fish (whale)



why even create the serpent, or the tree? Or even adam for that matter?
why did God want corrupted humans born with sin and free will?

pedantics,
jonah is defying god in the beginning of that story
gets punished by getting eaten by a fish
Jonah receives favoritism from god by agreeing to go with gods will
the people are asking repentance from god and get favoritism from him
Jonah wants to see the city get punished
This happens
"But God said to Jonah: "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?" And he said: "I do. I am angry enough to die."
But the LORD said: "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight, and died overnight.
But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"
Basically saying that it is now obvious that the city are his people just like jonah is.
and obviously he is no longer going to punish them.

It still boils down to favoritism for his people.

Job would be a better example

But job is proof that god fucks with people to test their belief in him
not to verify whether or not they turn to good or evil

Also adam and eve the tree was a test of faith in god,
and a punishment for lack of faith,
not a test of good or evil.

 Forge, on 21 August 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

why even create the serpent, or the tree? Or even adam for that matter?
why did God want corrupted humans born with sin and free will?

because god is fucked in the head.
He prizes faith in him,
more than anything else.

We see this with Noah.

Spoiler

Maybe heavily into BDSM and seeing suffering with beings like him turns him on.
BDSM is also probably why he established hell.

[Jimmy]

Because I cannot speak freely on this forum, I am just going to say that I will not respond to anyone incapable of reading a book.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 07:20 PM, said:

Because I cannot speak freely on this forum, I am just going to say that I will not respond to anyone incapable of reading a book.

All I'm asking you to do is to give me scripture to back up your claim.
I understand this is not a difficult task if you know the book yourself
a book that I haven't read in a very long time
so I can very well see how my view can be severely skewed.

I can very well read parts of scripture that support
your opinion with proper guidance.

You can literally pm me your opinion
I will not report it
shit I can give you my email if you want to do it that way

However alluding that my opinion isn't worth response due to a disability that I can't change
and my doctors also know I can't change it as focus enhancing drugs can apparently make psychosis worse
means you can sincerely go fuck yourself

[Danukem]

From what I can tell you are both being overly dramatic. @Jimmy you know perfectly well that your speech here isn't limited in any way that would affect your ability to communicate what you want to communicate. @Overman you can read Nietzsche and you can read what people are posting so I don't think anyone is denying your disability by suggesting you read something else.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

From what I can tell you are both being overly dramatic. @Jimmy you know perfectly well that your speech here isn't limited in any way that would affect your ability to communicate what you want to communicate. @Overman you can read Nietzsche and you can read what people are posting so I don't think anyone is denying your disability by suggesting you read something else.

I read Nietzsche before my illness was severe
I read the entire portable Nietzsche in 3 days
as soon as I got it

do you understand how absolutely heartbreaking it was
that I pick up that very same book
that book that means so much to me

and I can barely read a page.

Yes, I can clearly read this forum without any trouble.
but this is very little compared to the entire bible.

So he can go fuck himself.

[Jimmy]

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 07:44 PM, said:

@Jimmy you know perfectly well that your speech here isn't limited in any way that would affect your ability to communicate what you want to communicate.

Yes it is because I can't say the words I want to say lmao

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 07:51 PM, said:

Yes it is because I can't say the words I want to say lmao

I already offered you multiple avenues for you saying whatever you want to

You are obviously incapable of backing up your opinion with scripture otherwise you would've already done so.

[Jimmy]

I don't have to do shit. You're a crazy person and I'm not interested in pursuing a conversation with you further. I don't know, take your fucking meds and get back to me.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 08:05 PM, said:

I don't have to do shit. You're a crazy person and I'm not interested in pursuing a conversation with you further. I don't know, take your fucking meds and get back to me.

yeah idk, I wish the meds worked,
I really fucking do man.
I've tried all of them,
even the ones that turn you into a vegetable
and those didn't work

And I take my meds every day
their only purpose is to get me to sleep
and stop me from killing myself
they're effective at that

I guess I'm sorry,
for being so very incredibly belligerent,
as that's just who I am
that's what I do I challenge everything
and if there's a grain of sand that disproves something
I'll use it and abuse it over and over and over again

I wish it worked that way with the things I can't control.

but realistically calling me crazy,
and telling me to do things that you don't even have a vague inkling of an idea about,
makes you entitled,

You can live and enjoy your life free of being "crazy" or talking to "crazy" if you choose to
that's your choice

and you can live your life full well knowing that your life will always be better than mine,
I can be that guy that you think of in your head
as hey, at least I'm not as fucked as this guy,
enjoy it for me, thanks.

Also I wasn't asking you to do something
I was asking you to aid me in to agreeing with your opinion,
because I obviously need help to understand where your opinion is coming from,
nonetheless, none of that matters now,
as I'll never be not "crazy"

Edit:
And honestly if you take literally everything I say seriously and to the T
besides when talking about my illness
You have to understand that in my position taking everything in life seriously
would put me in an absolutely horrible position
as I simply would not be able to cope with much of anything

that god into BDSM thing
I do not believe in the slightest

I thought it was funny

I literally post porn like stuff in the outhouse subreddit
I never made this account to be taken seriously
I made this account because my life was in a dark place and I needed to rant about shit that in the end doesn't really matter so I could escape
I'm still using it for the same purpose as I did before all of this
a person like me needs ways to cope and this is the place that I can do so freely

[Forge]

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 06:00 PM, said:

It still boils down to favoritism for his people.

those were not his "chosen" people. those were the sworn enemies of his "chosen" people.
it's why Jonah disobeyed and ran away from what God had asked him to do until God made it clear that all people, not just the jews, were His creation.
it's also one of the earlier instances of showing that God accepted gentiles

this is what you asked for:
show me where god displays favoritism towards anyone but his own people
I provided you what you asked for. God giving the sworn enemies of his people a chance for redemption and saving. Favoring them over the fee-fees of his own prophet and people.


trying to twist it so it reads as Jonah getting favoritism is some serious mental gymnastics.
Jonah was a prophet of God and a religious leader. It was in his job description to obey God. He disobeyed and got punished until he did his job. Then he did his job with a piss poor attitude and continued to get punished and rebuked.

you wanted an example, I gave you one. The story of Jonah is pretty straight forward, but it's obvious that your intent is to look for ulterior motives and attack everything presented to you because you simply want to hate God.
that's your privilege to do so. I'm not trying to change your mind, but I'm also not very interested in reading your extreme interpretations because you don't like the design on the wallpaper in the room you've locked yourself into.

I don't want to cut off talking to you, but this subject seems to bring out some aggressive negativity you've got festering, so i'd rather not continue

[Balls of Steel Forever]

 Forge, on 21 August 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:

those were not his "chosen" people. those were the sworn enemies of his "chosen" people.
it's why Jonah disobeyed and ran away from what God had asked him to do until God made it clear that all people, not just the jews, were His creation.
it's also one of the earlier instances of showing that God accepted gentiles

trying to twist it so it reads as Jonah getting favoritism is some serious mental gymnastics.
Jonah was a prophet of God and a religious leader. It was in his job description to obey God. He disobeyed and got punished until he did his job. Then he did his job with a piss poor attitude and continued to get punished and rebuked.

you wanted an example, I gave you one. The story of Jonah is pretty straight forward, but it's obvious that your intent is to look for ulterior motives and attack everything presented to you because you simply want to hate God.
that's your privilege to do so. I'm not trying to change your mind, but I'm also not very interested in reading your extremely negative interpretations because you don't like the design on the wallpaper in the room you've locked yourself into.

I mean I was just reading the wikipedia synopsis
and read this
"the people of Nineveh begin to believe his word and proclaim a fast.
The king of Nineveh puts on sackcloth and sits in ashes,
making a proclamation which decrees fasting, the wearing of sackcloth, prayer, and repentance.
God sees their repentant hearts and spares the city at that time"
So honestly I did not know or remember the background of the story

And yes from the synopsis I could gather jonah was being a whiny little bitch,
and I was twisting it to the point that if jonah wasn't his prophet,
god would've just maimed him and got another guy to do it.

but i understand your viewpoint,
god sent jonah to give them a chance
jonah was being an ass
the people given their chance chose to repent

what I gathered from the synopsis was wrong
because yes
I am blinded by hatred and I agree with that

It definitely does display
God giving a chance to those who wanted to believe in him
why he didn't give the same chance to the people that wanted to believe him in Noahs time
as there had to be more then just a handful
IDK

But with the background knowledge that you gave me I agree with you.
That is an example of god not displaying favoritism.

And yeah I don't lock myself in the room usually and I like my wallpaper,
I infact love my life currently and enjoy it,
I just don't like being forced to deal with the shit that I have to deal with
as I'm sure you would in my situation,
and I also go out all the time.

I have my own reasons to hate god,
this is not the place to display all of them as I don't want a pity party,
but, blinded by that hatred
I look for facts to support my hatred

Just as you obviously look for facts to support your love for him.
thanks for the clarification.
and not being a total ass about it.

[Aristotle Gumball]

 The Overman, on 21 August 2020 - 09:07 PM, said:

I have my own reasons to hate god,
this is not the place to display all of them as I don't want a pity party,
but, blinded by that hatred
I look for facts to support my hatred

Just as you obviously look for facts to support your love for him.

Your hatred is not as blind as their love, as it seems you were born with reasons to hate whoever made you that way. You hardly needed to look.

Having to search for reasons to love a sadistic, genocidal monster just means that's what's closest to your heart and means your heart is actually poisoned with hate.

In essence there is only hate.

It's really easy to tell who on this forum has had a decent life and who has actually suffered.

[Danukem]

Invoking "free will" is a dead-end as an explanation of why there needs to be so much evil in the world. But there are other options! For example: Just drop the omnipotence, insert the devil, and voila! Now evil exists because god can't stop it. He's doing his best, and we all need to do our part. It makes for a goofy ontology, but the Problem of Evil (as a philosophical objection) goes away instantly. People enjoy the duality of good vs. evil, but when you combine that with monotheism it leads to difficulties. Because if god is responsible for creating everything and he's all powerful, then he's on the hook for evil. The mental gymnastics used to avoid that conclusion are spectacular. But there's no need for them with our good friend the devil.

[Phredreeke]

or alternatively humans aren't special, and the world as we know it is just one of a billion different worlds created for unknown purposes.

[Forge]

ignoring the reason for free will and the ability to make choices without being forced to make those choices, ignores the purpose of God's experiment with us

"the devil made me do it" is just as big of a cop out as "it's God's will"
the invisible entities have influence, but ultimately it's the human that's responsible for its decisions and choices

[Aristotle Gumball]

[PokeThePower]

 Hendricks266, on 21 August 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

why shouldn't he just kill the serpent in advance

Same reason George didn't kill the Battlelord.

In order to earnestly explore the question in a way that isn't ultimately Veruca Salting up the place with Dawkinsian tier fart sniffing... you have to meaningfully contemplate an eternal condition with entirely non-chosen relationships. That is still weak in terms of the gravity of creation but it's an opening. The suffering after life on earth is not intimated to be fire that burns bodies or pools of feces, but the knowledge of deliberately choosing separation from the only reason to be, and the hindsight of the ignored opportunities for acceptance ("for by your words...")

God won't need to punish us by inflicting eternal pain as we think of it... our own self awareness where we can no longer pretend will suffice. We won't be able to convince ourselves anymore that it's God's fault and will know the opportunity was undeserved and the result is just. Pure Hell.

[Radar]

 Danukem, on 21 August 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

There's a lot in that post, and by upvoting it I'm not agreeing with everything in it. But I think you raise a good point here.

As mortal humans, we think it is praiseworthy if another human intervenes to prevent the consequences of an evil choice. This is often the case even when using lethal force. For example, if an armed would-be school shooter is killed by security before getting an opportunity to fire a shot, that would be considered praiseworthy. But this involves active intervention. The perpetrator has made an evil choice, and security intervenes before further evil choices can be made to prevent harmful consequences. Why is it okay for humans to do it but evil if god does it? If anything, it seems to me that this gets it backwards. The reason we are very reluctant to give other humans that power is that we are suspicious of them, and often rightly so. We suspect their motives and judgment. But if god is a benevolent and omniscient being, then god is in a perfect position to make those decisions. Again, no one is saying that god should arbitrarily limit human freedom, we are only suggesting that a benevolent god would be justified to intervene for the same reason that humans are, and by definition would be much more trustworthy to do so.

The same people who argue this point will call God an authoritarian when he lays down this or that law in the OT. And before you argue about the times God did intervene in the OT: the purpose of the Bible is to transition humanity towards liberty, which is only found in Christ.

 Hendricks266, on 21 August 2020 - 03:33 PM, said:

why shouldn't he just kill the serpent in advance, like dan's analogy

Satan doesn't make you do anything.

 Kyanos, on 21 August 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

Pistus Sophia.
The Perfection of Christ.
The Gospel of Thomas.
The Gospel of Mary. (what remains)
The Gospel of Truth.


Which forms of Gematria do you recommend?

Ivan Panin

 Jimmy, on 21 August 2020 - 04:25 PM, said:

They aren't referred to as "pre-Christian" for no reason, dude.

Second time you avoid citing a source. You have no evidence.

 Kyanos, on 21 August 2020 - 04:37 PM, said:

The source for that is the New Testament. Gnosticism is Christianity, Paulism and Yawhism are inherently Mysticism.

Sounds like gnostic propaganda, but ok.

[Kyanos]

 R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

Sounds like gnostic propaganda, but ok.

Herod and the Wise Men both had divine knowledge of The Messiah coming, although they choose differing paths on how they would interact with the new King.

The term gnostic is often mistranslated as knowledge, when it should be read as divine knowledge.

Gnostic propaganda, therefore equals, spreading knowledge of the divine.

The most perfect description of The New Testament.