[Radar]

TBH I was expecting someone to mention the 3 wise men. When I refer to "gnostics", I mean actual believers of the gnostic religion. The Bible is filled with people who believe in Yahweh without being Christian or Jewish. That doesn't make them gnostics. The wise men weren't gnostics. They were Persian priests of the same sect as Daniel.

[Radar]

[Kyanos]

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 11:48 AM, said:

TBH I was expecting someone to mention the 3 wise men. When I refer to "gnostics", I mean actual believers of the gnostic religion. The Bible is filled with people who believe in Yahweh without being Christian or Jewish. That doesn't make them gnostics. The wise men weren't gnostics. They were Persian priests of the same sect as Daniel.

There was no "the gnostic religion" the closest thing would maybe be the school of Valentinus but that was early Christian era.

There are few surviving texts from the many different pre-Christian Greek, Aramaic, Egyptian, and Persian sects. Gnostic ideas permiate many of these documents. The source of this information is in the old scrolls themselves. You can choose to read them or not.

What do you think Jesus did after The Ressurection? What sources do you have?

Any opinions on here about Arthurian Grail Legends and their relationship to Christianity? How about Maid Mariam in Robin Hood?

[Radar]

Kyanos, on 22 August 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

There was no "the gnostic religion" the closest thing would maybe be the school of Valentinus but that was early Christian era.

Nope.

Kyanos, on 22 August 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

There are few surviving texts from the many different pre-Christian Greek, Aramaic, Egyptian, and Persian sects.

The Old Testament?

Kyanos, on 22 August 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

Gnostic ideas permiate many of these documents. The source of this information is in the old scrolls themselves. You can choose to read them or not.

Which ones?

Kyanos, on 22 August 2020 - 01:11 PM, said:

What do you think Jesus did after The Ressurection? What sources do you have?

Met with his disciples periodically and ascended into heaven after 40 days. My source is the Bible.

[Kyanos]

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:

Which ones?

Gnosticism really took off with Christianity, some examples of pre-Christian Gnostic writings are arguably just non-Christian Gnostic texts. Two better examples are The Apocalypse of Adam and The Paraphrase of Shem.

Here is a longer read about the subject.
https://www.thegospe...-recent-debate/

[Balls of Steel Forever]

I do have one reasonable question,
if god is a just god, a fair god, for allowing absolute human freedom

Why do some people who are born with certain disadvantages,
mental disability with delusions against god, slavery, no possible access to ever knowing that such a god exists during their lifetime,
why do these people that are never given or are reaped of the ability to accept jesus into their hearts

why are they given no choice in the matter of accepting Jesus, therefore making their fate hell?
A slave endures more suffering then the most of us,
he has done little to nothing to reap him from such choice,
besides being born as we all are.

If he is a just fair god why is the slave given punishment for something he had no power over?
if god is love, why does he shed no love for people in such positions?

And again,
I want opinion aided by pieces of scripture,
which I can see for myself,
as I do believe in the bible,

I believed heavily in the positive interpretations in the bible
and would argue for such alot when I was younger

otherwise it's just unbased conjecture,
and I don't want that.

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:

Met with his disciples periodically and ascended into heaven after 40 days. My source is the Bible.

Why should someone show you their source
when asked to show yours

instead of showing a couple of paragraphs,
or a couple lines of scripture,
to prove your point

you tell them to read an 1000 paged book

Did I ever say that you needed to read Leviathan to understand the benefits of a benevolent monarchy,
Did I ever say that you have to read Infinite jest to understand purpose in life and the struggles of mental illness,
Did I ever say you need to read the possessed to understand utopian socialism,
Did I ever say that you need to read the portable Nietzsche to understand existential nihilism,

No because you don't have to

Saying that you have to read an 1000 paged book
or a 100 paged book
or a 20 paged book

when most of your points can literally be proven with a couple lines or a couple paragraphs,
is ableist and elitist, plain and simple.

If you're ok with being called that,
and you accept it,
that's fine.

I accept you for who you are,
someone who makes unbased conjecture.

The point of teaching someone is that you understand something,
and you can back up your understanding with proof.

stating the bible as proof
is the same as stating the internet is proof
it does not convey an understanding of either.

[Kyanos]

"Slavery was a choice." - Kanye

"You can't always get what you want." - Lennon

[Radar]

My theory regarding the fate of those who neither have a chance to accept or deny Jesus in this lifetime is two-fold:

-Infants/children who have not reached the "age of accountability" are in heaven
-Adults who have surpassed the age of accountability are given the chance in the after-life to believe in Christ


My scriptural support for this is gleaned from 2 passages:

"...but now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” - 2 Samuel 12:23

David is confident that he will see his son again who died in infancy.


"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison" - 1 Peter 3:18-19

Why would Jesus preach to those who have already denied Him and are bound to hell? I suspect this passage may be referring to souls who have never heard of Christ; most likely taking place in "Abraham's Bosom" (Hades/Sheol) and not actually hell (Gehenna).


Keep in mind that so-called "heaven" is not angel wings flying around in the clouds and stuff. The first stop for those who are saved is to be physically resurrected on earth as part of Christ's world Kingdom.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:18 PM, said:

My theory regarding the fate of those who neither have a chance to accept or deny Jesus in this lifetime is two-fold:

-Infants/children who have not reached the "age of accountability" are in heaven
-Adults who have surpassed the age of accountability are given the chance in the after-life to believe in Christ


My scriptural support for this is gleaned from 2 passages:

"...but now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” - 2 Samuel 12:23

David is confident that he will see his son again who died in infancy.


"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison" - 1 Peter 3:18-19

Why would Jesus preach to those who have already denied Him and are bound to hell? I suspect this passage may be referring to souls who have never heard of Christ; most likely taking place in "Abraham's Bosom" (Hades/Sheol) and not actually hell (Gehenna).


Keep in mind that so-called "heaven" is not angel wings flying around in the clouds and stuff. The first stop for those who are saved is to be physically resurrected on earth as part of Christ's world Kingdom.

I always thought of heaven as being with who you love doing what you love, Idk why, but that's always been my thought on it.

I can definitely see where you derive your opinion from.
And maybe when I do see god after all this and such things are true he'll give me a chance.
but I like Thomas would have to question alot of things,
ans ensure that he imo is fair and just.

Because it is not exactly fair and just for this world to be test of belief,
and not a test of good or evil.

If he could show me that good people who have suffered significant trauma,
or like Nietzsche knew of people experiencing significant trauma and knew that certain people were born into being bereft of choice due to how they were born,
and because of it were reaped of their faith in god
and they went to heaven,

I would be there
and not tell god to go fuck himself,
because even though Hitler is probably up there,
I know I am not much better in the eyes of god,
But we can only know when we get there.

But if such proves to be of any different,
I'll suffer in hell

because I personally don't want to bow down to a being
who in my eyes is not fair and just.

Thank you for finally providing scripture,
I know I'm an ass.

[Radar]

I assure you Hitler did not go to heaven. God probably gave him a 1-way-ticket passed Sheol straight into the depths of Gehenna where not even Satan can find him.

Btw, I can provide scriptural evidence for almost all of my opinions. I don't think you were part of earlier religious conversations on this forum, but I used to cite verses for everything. I stopped doing that, because nobody else does. I know why they don't; because they have none. Let me know if there's something you need me to clarify with verses.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

I assure you Hitler did not go to heaven. God probably gave him a 1-way-ticket passed Sheol and sent him straight into the depths of Gehenna where not even Satan can find him.

I know my grandfather is in hell
because he would choose it
because while he was dying
he recognized the sins he committed
sins that are unforgivable amongst men.
I know my grandfather when getting judged by god
would say that despite his belief
he deserves hell
because he recognized that in his deathbed.

Hitler was a protestant
he also committed and permitted sins unforgivable amongst men
but he died deluded thinking he was right
and doing what he thought was best for man and god

he was a meth addict in all honesty
I have no idea how much ptsd he suffered in war
and we have no way to measure how broken his mind was

I feel that a fair and just god would gift such a man with a clear mind
the very same clear mind my grandfather had before his death
a clear mind so he himself could judge whether or not he deserves heaven
and he like my grandfather would choose hell.

But if not gifted a clear mind
and under and unfair and unjust god
and in his deluded state as a deluded man
with his belief in jesus
he would be in heaven

again, this is totally unfounded, obviously.
besides the test of belief stuff
just conjecture to provoke different thinking.

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

Btw, I can provide scriptural evidence for almost all of my opinions. I don't think you were part of earlier religious conversations on this forum, but I used to cite verses for everything. I stopped doing that, because nobody else does. I know why they don't; because they have none. Let me know if there's something you need me to clarify with verses.

I remember being a christian like that,
those were definitely the good days lol,

once your mind irrevocably changes to support something for what reason that cannot be comprehended,
something that because of your history of stubbornness,
now finds every reason to think the opposite of the man you once were,
the kid that read Nietzsche and used it to support his belief in god,

you get lost and forget that belief and how you came to that belief that you had before such irrevocable change.

and thanks, I obviously want scripture to understand,
As I'm still that christian kid that read Nietzsche to understand the other side.
I just need a bit more help then I used to

[PokeThePower]

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

I assure you Hitler did not go to heaven.

You cannot give this assurance of anyone, even for yourself.

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

Btw, I can provide scriptural evidence for almost all of my opinions.

"He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

but I used to cite verses for everything.

Yeah you're fairly spergy about it. We had a whole discussion about this, you believe the map is the territory. You travel the map meticulously at the expense of the living word/world.

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

I stopped doing that, because nobody else does.

Not quoting it to your satisfaction is not the same thing as not quoting. Most of us have enough situational awareness to know that hyper-quoting verses like some sort of internet Dictaphone, without the capacity to speak to a non-believer about *why* they have any relevance or meaning now without just going "Because this cherry I've referenced today says so and it's true because it's true!" is precisely why Christianity has been absolutely trounced and beaten to the floor over the past century. An entire culture that knew scripture backward and forward but couldn't carry the actual message of scripture into the world for new generations.

To the point that it would be hard to argue against the suggestion that most organized denominations today follow and teach for the father of lies more than God. All while reading from and quoting scripture in their sermons.

R A D A Я, on 22 August 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

I know why they don't; because they have none.

No you don't.

We had a very clear conversation and ended at an obvious impasse. Some of us view the tactile books we can hold today that have the words The Holy Bible on it as a tool. It is an entirely sufficient tool, yet it is not the actual living word of God, it is a reflection. It is also not the only method God has for reaching people. You disagree with the previous characterization of the thing you hold and read each day. Nobody can stop you ascribing motives on others for their approach to these discussions, but you sound damn close to someone who claims to have it all figured out, knows the one version of material evidence that can be held in their hands which is all that all people need, and can even see into the hearts of people who were dead before you were born as sufficiently as God and that person can.

Hubris.

Here's how you come off to someone like me who went down an increasingly common path of rejecting the Christianity and Christians of his childhood, loud and proud atheist loving owning the dumbfucks believing in sky fairies, 'bout fell out of his shoes bumping into Daniel Dennet at the airport and saying hi, considered it a high point to be in the same room having small talk with the Four Horsemen of Atheism, eventually smoking too much weed and listening to too much Alan Watts, reading the Tao and admiring it, then reading it a few more times and it suddenly causing the entire bible to make sense in ways it never had before, then returning fully back to Christianity with an utterly transformed foundation and cringe at the big Christian lies and liars of the 20th century.

You come off like a guy standing in front of an autostereogram going into meticulous detail about every single line and color, and talking about how all those patterns make it possible to see a cross, yet barely in those conversations speak as if you are actually seeing the cross that pops out once you kind of get out of your own head and in a round about way take it on faith that it's there and then suddenly you see it clear as day and no longer have immediate urgency for individual squiggles and squaggles. And not like pareidolia. This cross is there on purpose and is unambiguously there... yet not "there" when just looking straight on at all the noise of the creation.

Some of those who share your same faith discussing with you find the nose stuck to the paper following all the squiggles and spectrums mendaciously tedious, or more generously, just outright missing the point half the time. Again, that's how you come off not a statement of what you are. You should of course use the tools and earnest seeking that works for you and I have no reason to doubt the earnestness of your seeking.

[Radar]

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

You cannot give this assurance of anyone, even for yourself.

I can't give an assurance for anyone, but I can for Hitler. Because it's Hitler. As for myself, a true Christian can absolutely assure you of their own salvation. Otherwise, that would be silly. I am saved and heaven-bound. Sorry you aren't sure regarding yourself.

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

"He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone."

Thank you for the random verse with no context and I'll also let you know that the Bible says "you shall not make a garment of mixed linen and wool" because idk it just came to mind right now.

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

Yeah you're fairly spergy about it. We had a whole discussion about this, you believe the map is the territory. You travel the map meticulously at the expense of the living word/world.

This is typical word salad speak for "I believe in the Bible, except for when I don't believe in the Bible, because I just believe whatever I want, lol".

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

Not quoting it to your satisfaction is not the same thing as not quoting. Most of us have enough situational awareness to know that hyper-quoting verses like some sort of internet Dictaphone, without the capacity to speak to a non-believer about *why* they have any relevance or meaning now without just going "Because this cherry I've referenced today says so and it's true because it's true!"

I don't cherry-pick. Every verse I quote is in its proper context.

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

is precisely why Christianity has been absolutely trounced and beaten to the floor over the past century. An entire culture that knew scripture backward and forward but couldn't carry the actual message of scripture into the world for new generations.

Dude, it's not up to you or me to carry God's message. It's up to God. I do this for fun. God has a plan so relax.

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

To the point that it would be hard to argue against the suggestion that most organized denominations today follow and teach for the father of lies more than God. All while reading from and quoting scripture in their sermons.

Do you go to church?

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

No you don't.

We had a very clear conversation and ended at an obvious impasse. Some of us view the tactile books we can hold today that have the words The Holy Bible on it as a tool. It is an entirely sufficient tool, yet it is not the actual living word of God, it is a reflection. It is also not the only method God has for reaching people. You disagree with the previous characterization of the thing you hold and read each day. Nobody can stop you ascribing motives on others for their approach to these discussions, but you sound damn close to someone who claims to have it all figured out, knows the one version of material evidence that can be held in their hands which is all that all people need, and can even see into the hearts of people who were dead before you were born as sufficiently as God and that person can.

I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. If it isn't, I ask you what I've already asked you and others many times: what is?

DriveDinaDrive, on 22 August 2020 - 09:34 PM, said:

Hubris.

Here's how you come off to someone like me who went down an increasingly common path of rejecting the Christianity and Christians of his childhood, loud and proud atheist loving owning the dumbfucks believing in sky fairies, 'bout fell out of his shoes bumping into Daniel Dennet at the airport and saying hi, considered it a high point to be in the same room having small talk with the Four Horsemen of Atheism, eventually smoking too much weed and listening to too much Alan Watts, reading the Tao and admiring it, then reading it a few more times and it suddenly causing the entire bible to make sense in ways it never had before, then returning fully back to Christianity with an utterly transformed foundation and cringe at the big Christian lies and liars of the 20th century.

You come off like a guy standing in front of an autostereogram going into meticulous detail about every single line and color, and talking about how all those patterns make it possible to see a cross, yet barely in those conversations speak as if you are actually seeing the cross that pops out once you kind of get out of your own head and in a round about way take it on faith that it's there and then suddenly you see it clear as day and no longer have immediate urgency for individual squiggles and squaggles. And not like pareidolia. This cross is there on purpose and is unambiguously there... yet not "there" when just looking straight on at all the noise of the creation.

Some of those who share your same faith discussing with you find the nose stuck to the paper following all the squiggles and spectrums mendaciously tedious, or more generously, just outright missing the point half the time. Again, that's how you come off not a statement of what you are. You should of course use the tools and earnest seeking that works for you and I have no reason to doubt the earnestness of your seeking.

This is what I call hubris. Dude, your backstory has nothing to do with the price of tomatoes in China. I don't care if you smoked weed with Daniel Dennet or whatever. I actually take the Bible seriously while all you did was watch "Jews are bad - cliff notes edition" videos on Bitchute. And I don't care if it pisses you off, because Jesus pissed people off for the same reason. uru seyd hI amasre u girl ..... ? plss respond me ........... OK .,,6,, 2345 oka dodnlodsd fre uber mecnh vids........ w46, 24f14 FINGER FAMILY FORkids nuersry THE INDIA

[Forge]

R A D A Я, on 23 August 2020 - 03:45 AM, said:

I can't give an assurance for anyone, but I can for Hitler.

assuming he committed suicide. and if the interpretation of the intentional self-murder is judged to be unforgivable does apply (i'm not the judge. Also: suck it martyrs) otherwise you weren't there, didn't speak to him in that last moment, and thus you do not know.
Sitting yourself in the judge's chair is a dangerous game.

Quote

As for myself, a true Christian can absolutely assure you of their own salvation.

according to numerous verses peppered around the new testament (e.g. Romans 8, John 2 thru 4), especially in 1 John, this is true

Quote

This is typical word salad speak for "I believe in the Bible, except for when I don't believe in the Bible, because I just believe whatever I want, lol".

there are numerous interpretations of the same book you subscribe to, besides your interpretation.
if there were only one clear specific interpretation, there would only be one branch of christianity.
Your traditional approach is fine in most instances, but it's pretentious to think that every single unique individual has to agree with you

Quote

Dude, it's not up to you or me to carry God's message. It's up to God. I do this for fun. God has a plan so relax.

God commissioned you, christian, to spread his gospel. For His glory, not yours.

[Radar]

Forge, on 23 August 2020 - 06:31 AM, said:

there are numerous interpretations of the same book you subscribe to, besides your interpretation.
if there were only one clear specific interpretation, there would only be one branch of christianity.
Your traditional approach is fine in most instances, but it's pretentious to think that every single unique individual has to agree with you

I'm aware there are dozens of legitimate interpretations of various passages from the Bible. Many need outside sources in order to provide clarification. But every Christian must render the Bible as the complete Word of God. Wieder has stated time and again that he does not believe this.

Forge, on 23 August 2020 - 06:31 AM, said:

God commissioned you, christian, to spread his gospel. For His glory, not yours.

I will spread the Gospel through my children.

[PokeThePower]

R A D A Я, on 23 August 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

Wieder has stated time and again that he does not believe this.

Being a textual supremacist such as you are, what did I actually say?

I'll followup with the rest after church.

[Forge]

DriveDinaDrive, on 23 August 2020 - 07:32 AM, said:

what did I actually say?

interpreted?

being book smart is great, except when you can't apply what you learned

[Kyanos]

R A D A Я, on 23 August 2020 - 06:51 AM, said:

But every Christian must render the Bible as the complete Word of God.

Are the scrolls themselves more Godly than the message?

Ephesians 6:10-18

Quote

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

IMO, the intent of the message outweighs the paper it is printed upon.

[Radar]

What are "the scrolls", dude? lol

[Kyanos]

Scrolls, sorry Books.

Do you feel that the Word is the Book itself, the physically ink on paper? OR, Is the Word of God the message contained within The Book?

[Radar]

The Word of God is the Message, obviously. The Word can't be ink on paper, because the original manuscripts of anything in the Bible no longer exist. All we have are an assortment of partial and complete manuscripts that agree with each other about 98%. My point is, the Bible is a complete work. The Message is limited to the Word of God contained within the Bible. This is important because the Bible keeps you rooted and based. When you don't keep yourself in-line, you will invent the God you want to believe in. I'm basically arguing with what's in your head, which nobody else could know except you. How is that a God anyone else is supposed to believe? It isn't. The Bible is expanse enough as it is. Stick to that and take a break from the gnostic stuff.

[Kyanos]

Quote

The Message is limited to the Word of God contained within the Bible.

This is the part I disagree with.
The Word of God has no material limitations.
The Message is everywhere.

[Radar]

Not true. For example:

Listen to me and do what I say poverty-stricken crime galaxies and post-homeboyism IPhone revolutionaries. Believe the words and embrace the truth. Two-plus-four equals six six equals seven seven equals eight but also equals ending the eternal control of hyperfucker sissyboy prostate gods and Latino cream king butt-battle Two-Thousand Dollar World Record Beaters forever. Look at the numbers flying into your eyeballs and ingest them through the intestines and out the sphincter of eternity into your brainwaves reverberating on planet ground into four billion people billion masses population into purestrain gold poverty forever culminating in the free market system equals eternal peace and liberty for all souls in the sensual chokehold of Steely Dan’s enormous manpussy clitoris, all microblogged in the ever-watching eyesight zones of teevee iPhone metacasts, living surrounded by the lie of Cigarette-Cash Truth Youth Exo-Criminals, their crimes written onto the parchment of our minds, souls, bodies, consciousness by the Enron Oil International Player’s Club Vice Lords Committee of Loco Boner Lords.Homosensual Ultra God is Verbal pussy pounding. It’s liquid God. Tight pussy pump Cream King sexual slavery manhood snatcher Safety Cock Hot Cock Cock Socks. Liquid God will reverse negative crystal dick rot caused by failure to adhere to perfect Two-Thousand Dollar World Record Beater model cigarette currency. Cig currency converts ALL dollars and gold denominations into ONE ALLIANCE overarching tobacco cash, trading packs in pack market. Roseanne Barr sent to Federal Pussy Prison by Tom Arnold, warden Ellen DeGeneres. Roseanne trapped with political pussy prisoners Kirstie Alley and Ricki Lake in world's Strongest Maximum Security Alien Pussy Prison at bottom of Atlantic Ocean. Roseanne and Tom cigarette cash forgery network .

[Hank]

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race [as their God]. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them. He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, [for] the old order has passed away.”

NASB Revelation 21:1-4

Positive things, in a upside down world. As atheist I have nothing to offer in this respect; the Bible is a powerful back up though, to cheer people up.

[Jimmy]

We must not forget that we cannot trust any of our worldly senses as we are constantly being deceived by the evil one. This world is literally a hall of mirrors.

We can only trust the 3rd eye and our personal relationship with the Christ.

[Radar]

Why do you bother trying to comprehend anything if you can't trust your senses?

[Danukem]

That's a strange question coming from a devout Christian. Surely it's not your sense perception that informs your faith.

[Radar]

I usually don't go into spiritual sensory esoteric stuff when talking about my faith with unbelievers because most people will just think I'm nuts. By "worldly senses", I figured he was talking about our ability to comprehend words on a page and apply logic.

[Balls of Steel Forever]

R A D A Я, on 23 August 2020 - 03:46 PM, said:

Why do you bother trying to comprehend anything if you can't trust your senses?

Jimmy, on 23 August 2020 - 01:42 PM, said:

We must not forget that we cannot trust any of our worldly senses as we are constantly being deceived by the evil one. This world is literally a hall of mirrors.

We can only trust the 3rd eye and our personal relationship with the Christ.

Obviously even from my standpoint where I want to tell god to go fuck himself,
I can tell what's wrong with both of these

If we can only trust not our wordly senses and are unable to see the "good of god"
bible, nature, etc.
we won't believe in god.

believing in god is not innate.
it's a reaction to our current environment through our current disposition, whatever that maybe.
and knowledge of or reading of the bible

And obviously god cannot be believed without faith.
this faith comes from our
disposition , environment and the bible
whether secondhand or not

now disposition and environment has been proven scientifically that it did not require a higher power to put us in our disposition or our environment.
so although some of us are in a better place to accept god, it's not proof.

so all we have is the bible for faith,
and in the end all the bible is is a book.
it's just a book.

This is what constitutes faith,
alot of words.
words are not proof of god.

Turning words into proof of god,
That requires belief that is only loosely based on any of our senses.
and that belief is also somewhat based on the aforementioned disposition or environment

So belief is a decision based on an amalgamation of various different things
not just our senses
senses are required for belief
but it is not the sole determination

Spoiler

Edit: changed alot of stuff

[Danukem]

R A D A Я, on 23 August 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

I usually don't go into spiritual sensory esoteric stuff when talking about my faith with unbelievers because most people will just think I'm nuts. By "worldly senses", I figured he was talking about our ability to comprehend words on a page and apply logic.

Traditional distinction in western philosophy:

Sense perceptions includes sensations of sight, sound, touch, smell, etc. We normally regard these as providing information about objects in a physical world. This is what I understood Jimmy to be casting doubt on.

Our understanding of concepts and logical inferences are functions of the intellect and are distinct from sense perceptions. It's obviously more complicated than that because many of our concepts we wouldn't even have without sense perceptions, but the idea is that we can have a priori knowledge about certain things using the intellect even if our senses are in doubt.