[Master O]

So is this going to be added into eduke32 proper in the near future or is it going to remain its own source port?

[MrFlibble]

I just thought it would be wonderful if someone had the time to create a small video comparing the existing ports/engine recreations and pointing out the differences. Personally I don't know the original game that well to judge, and I believe that this kind of explanations would be useful for educational purposes. I mean, without prior knowledge people may not be even aware that there are different programmes that allow them to play Redneck Rampage outside DOSBox, much less so understand which of these is more faithful to the original thing.

[VGA]

Aren't Rednukem and the GDX port the only contenders?

[Mark]

ERampage is another that works and has a nice front end for choosing games and maps but it was never quite finished before it was abandoned a few years ago. The other 2 mentioned are a better pick for accuracy.

[Phredreeke]

Honestly the less said about ERampage the better.

[Mark]

Lets hope Hendricks doesn't stop by here.

[Tekedon]

 Mark, on 30 December 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Lets hope Hendricks doesn't stop by here.

Did he make it?

[NightFright]

I think the general opinion about ERampage is very mixed. It's able to run the game alright, but this is accomplished in a "dirty" way regarding coding.

[Mark]

 Tekedon, on 30 December 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

Did he make it?

No. But he makes sure that everyone knows how much he hates it and tells people to delete it from their comps.
I just don't want to see him triggered again, thats all.

[fgsfds]

 NightFright, on 30 December 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

I think the general opinion about ERampage is very mixed. It's able to run the game alright, but this is accomplished in a "dirty" way regarding coding.

In no way it is able to run the game "alright". The fact that the AK doesn't have any recoil whatsoever alone is enough to call it a complete shit. I'm surprised (and saddened) that people are still bringing this "port" up when there are two good "real" (sort of) ports to choose from.

[Mark]

Here we go again.

[fgsfds]

I'll stop now. I'm just surprised at how people are eager to defend an inferior stuff like ERampage or BloodCM when superior options exist.

[Mark]

I defended it because for years there was no other option around, it was playable to a certain extent and has a nice front end for loading the RR games and maps. For someone who doesn't know the game's every tiny detail, like me, it was enjoyable to be able to play again without the hassle and limits of Dosbox. I don't think anyone here still recommends it over our other 2 options available today. My issue is it was being crapped on by narrowed minded people who discouraged anyone to playing it. Even before our other options existed.

[Phredreeke]

ERampage is more of a TC than an actual port. If I'm not mistaken if you can still quick kick by pressing Q (except that you instead strike with the crow bar)

Also the version of eduke32 it's based on is ancient.

[NightFright]

I didn't mean "alright" in the meaning of OK xD Just that it can run the game in general. If it seemed as if I was praising this in any way, I humbly ask for forgiveness. By the time it used to be the only port around, it was still better than nothing, though. I admit having played the game once with it, and it was actually the first time I ever did.

[Phredreeke]

well, people only knowing the game based on a hacked up port of another game causes issues when someone gets around to make an accurate port and they get asked why thing X is different despite it actually matching the behaviour of the original game.

[Jimmy]

 fgsfds, on 30 December 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'll stop now. I'm just surprised at how people are eager to defend an inferior stuff like ERampage or BloodCM when superior options exist.

Because people don't like to admit when they're wrong, coupled with the fact these inferior versions existed first and "they were good enough at the time." And unfortunately, there are STILL people who like ZBlood. Some people are just retarded.

[TerminX]

 Mark, on 30 December 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

My issue is it was being crapped on by narrowed minded people who discouraged anyone to playing it. Even before our other options existed.

DOSBox was always a better option than ERampage because ERampage was never anything close to finished and nothing in it functioned in a way that could be considered "correct" when compared to the original game. The problem with projects like that is that anyone who was a big fan of the original game immediately notices everything that's wrong with the "port", and anyone who never played the original game in the first place comes away thinking the game is poorly put together due to everything the "port" does wrong.

[Mark]

Noticing whats wrong with the port and informing the inquiring minds is fine. But too many of the posts were more of the "delete that piece of crap off your drive" or "Its a worthless piece of junk" etc... You forgot to mention the niche of people like myself that knew it was flawed but it had enough going for it to be fun to play anyways. I don't run Dosbox so at the time ERampage was the only other way I could play RR. It filled a void and for that I'm thankful.

The same line of thinking goes for SWP also. It was the best SW experience IMO available for newer OSs. Flaws included.

[leilei]

Blood had that problem as well since many new Blood fans came in from ZBlood (along with the wrong belief that Caleb's pants are officially green)

Heck even Q2 had a problem to some degree. There are some source ports that try to "fix" Ground Zero by undummying the Disintegrator and there's these new "diehard Q2 fans" that claim it was always there and never unused. :|

I wonder if random fantasies of those broken 3dfx Blood/SW ports allegedly looking pretty count in the revisionism...

[Phredreeke]

 Mark, on 30 December 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Noticing whats wrong with the port and informing the inquiring minds is fine.

The problem is people playing the shoddy port, thinking it's how it is supposed to play, then requesting the new port be "fixed" to adher to the old one...

Though TBF I did make a similar request myself in regards to the silly Cerberus AI in BloodGDX inherited from Blood 1.21

[Zaxx]

ERampage was quite bad, I could never enjoy the game with it because it didn't feel like the original.

I have to defend ZBlood though mostly when it comes to its newer iterations like ZBloody Hell and the like. ZBlood never wanted to be Blood, it's just a Blood themed ZDoom TC with its own stuff. If you check out ZBloody Hell (and you should absolutely do that if you're a Blood fan btw.) what you'll see is a "Doom remix" of Blood where nothing works like how it did in the original but the different mechanics did not ruin the gameplay at all. It's just different and the maps were changed around or extended a lot too.

[Mark]

I'll just wrap it up on my end by saying I'm glad I don't get so heavily into any video game that I would notice, or possibly get upset, that Caleb's pants are a different color or it now takes 3 shots to kill something instead of 4. I'm easy to please.

[Zaxx]

 Mark, on 31 December 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

I'll just wrap it up on my end by saying I'm glad I don't get so heavily into any video game that I would notice, or possibly get upset, that Caleb's pants are a different color or it now takes 3 shots to kill something instead of 4. I'm easy to please.

Well it's true that ZBloody Hell is a bit closer to the original game in feel I don't think this would fool you into thinking you're playing the real Blood:

The "turbo dynamites" are fun though.

And in the case of ERampage guess confusing it with the real thing is only possible if you've not played the real thing in ages or ever (which is understandable because it's Redneck Rampage ).

[Forge]

ports are like remakes of Doom, SW, Quake, & Blood levels in Duke3d,
some are good and worth replaying, some are mediocre and are okay to reference to at a later time because they show potential, some are bad, very bad, and should be buried in the bad sectors of an old hdd so that they can never be recovered.

it's all objective when compared to the original
it's all subjective to the user if it's fun

one person's measuring perspective scale is not going to be the same as another person's measuring perspective scale.

[Jimmy]

 Mark, on 31 December 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

I'll just wrap it up on my end by saying I'm glad I don't get so heavily into any video game that I would notice, or possibly get upset, that Caleb's pants are a different color or it now takes 3 shots to kill something instead of 4. I'm easy to please.

Just because you don't care about accuracy doesn't mean that accuracy isn't important. It's consumers like you that let Star Wars: Special Edition happen. "Well it's basically the same movie!" Again, if you like it, fine. But that doesn't mean the original shouldn't be preserved.

Also I'd have more respect for ZBlood if it had original content, especially completely new levels, and didn't try to represent itself as accurate to Blood.

[MrFlibble]

I am quite aware that ERampage is an inaccurate recreation. But I'm thinking from the perspective of bringing the correct playing experience to those users who don't want to do extensive research on their own. I believe that an illustrative video or article, created/written by someone who knows the game inside out or simply well enough to explain what ports are preferable and why would be both healthy for the gaming community and beneficial for preserving the game.

For example, if you Google redneck rampage source port the top result will be a Rock Paper Shotgun post about RedneckGDX and the second one a discussion at GOG.com about ERampage. Only then you get a page at PC Gaming Wiki which lists all three options with a note that ERampage is not recommended.

However if you Google play redneck rampage in windows 10 for example, the top two results are pages about ERampage (and quite a few more down the list). Yes, there's a video about RedneckGDX before that, but the second video is about ERampage, and still there's a lot of info remaining on the Internets from the time when nothing else than ERampage existed in that department.

[Mark]

Jimmy said: "Just because you don't care about accuracy doesn't mean that accuracy isn't important."

Thankyou Captain Obvious.

[Zaxx]

 MrFlibble, on 01 January 2019 - 05:27 AM, said:

I am quite aware that ERampage is an inaccurate recreation. But I'm thinking from the perspective of bringing the correct playing experience to those users who don't want to do extensive research on their own.

Is ERampage the correct playing experience though? I don't think so, it's too much like Duke 3D for that and while that can be good in some cases (for example the original game's hit detection is terrible) overall ERampage breaks too many things.

I'm not the type of guy who wants 100% accuracy when I feel that the accurate experience doesn't quite hold up (for example the more visible and colored keys of RedneckGDX provide an objective improvement to the original game design so my vote is on that one these days) but the "soul" of it should be kept intact.

[MrFlibble]

 Zaxx, on 01 January 2019 - 07:42 AM, said:

 MrFlibble, on 01 January 2019 - 05:27 AM, said:

I am quite aware that ERampage is an inaccurate recreation. But I'm thinking from the perspective of bringing the correct playing experience to those users who don't want to do extensive research on their own.

Is ERampage the correct playing experience though? I don't think so

I did not intend to imply that ERampage is "correct" despite being inaccurate (if that is how you read that). I simply meant to say that being told that ERampage is inaccurate is, to me, fundamentally different from being explained how it fails to recreate the original gameplay mechanics, whereas Rednukem and RedneckGDX do that properly.

It's not that this is an issue in the particular case because ERampage is clearly outdated by now in addition to being incomplete/inaccurate (so the choice of newer ports should be obvious for everyone). However, from reading this thread, I felt a need for more information because I cannot judge how accurate Rednukem is on my own, having only limited experience with the DOS original. I trust you guys who know the game enough to be certain of the port's quality, but I believe that an explanation is always a good thing.

Just a thought though.