[Jukno Kim]

PLEASE, hear me out. I really mean no disrespect to anyone.
I know this topic brings up the wrath of the community.
But I truly, and honestly would like to understand - WHY?

After all, isn't this a Forum for DUKE NUKEM Fans
(or is it a Build/eDuke/Polymer site?)
As a fan, I enjoy anything Duke, in whatever shape or form.

So, if it is at all possible, can we refrain from flaming, personal attacks and insults.
And help shed light on this subject in a civilized manner?
I'm sure there are some of us who would really want to know...

[TerminX]

Because it's illegal and stupid and played out. This, specifically, is a forum for Duke Nukem 3D modifications, not for lame recreations as mods for newer games.

[Piano Man]

Well if 3DRealms are closing down... I suppose it won't be illegal for long will it???

No offence to anyone, but since DNF isn't coming out now... I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to create a Duke Mod on Crysis or something... There are people who waited for 12 years and will never get to play Duke Nukem Forever now... because it's DEAD... the project is DEAD... It's gone... there will be no more DNF.

I personally would give any Duke Mod for any other engine a go... I really would... Although I don't know shit personally about modding, so I'm no good in the modding department.

But hey - if someone makes it - I will play it... Whether it's illegal or not.



(And to those who think that DNF is still going to come out... then you may want to look up the first stage of death...)

Spoiler

It's DENIAL!!!

[TerminX]

Even if 3DR's development studio is "closed", it will remain illegal. Forever. Copyrights and trademarks do not vanish, especially when the company in question is not defunct.

[escapist]

hmmm...
why is it?
on one hand we immediately rebuke anyone who uses Duke in another engine
but on the other hand, without a second thought, we accept when other people "borrow" things
and use it for Duke's engine

...just wondering

i just hope admins don't lock this thread

[Danukem]

escapist, on May 21 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

hmmm...
why is it?
on one hand we immediately rebuke anyone who uses Duke in another engine
but on the other hand, without a second thought, we accept when other people "borrow" things
and use it for Duke's engine

...just wondering

i just hope admins don't lock this thread

Who is "we"?

There are some people who rebuke anyone who uses Duke in another engine. And there are some people who rip stuff from other games and put it in Duke 3D. AFAIK, they aren't the same people.

For example, I use ripped sprites in some of my mods. But I don't go around telling people not to use Duke stuff in other engines.

[Spiker]

Just call the mod Puke Nudem and then you can do whatever you want (As long as you create your own art etc). I've seen in some games that had no license for using names (real names, not like Duke) that they were replacing the names with simmilar ones but you could recognize them immediately.

And yeah, all mods that borrow art from other games would be illegal but here everybody just care about Duke (Pathetic). IMO you can consider such situations a fair use (You don't get any money for it nor any company loses it). The same is with Duke. What's more some games could even benefit from it because they would have a free advertisement.

[Tea Monster]

3DR have always made it known that Duke and the Duke Nukem likeness, game assets, likeness of game assets, etc. have been thier property. They own the IP and if someone uses it without permission or gaining licenses, they are out of money, which as we are all painfully aware, can be a very bad thing indeed.

They have always said that they allowed the use (or re-use) of the Duke Nukem game assets on the Duke Nukem engine only. In fact, the HRP used to be issued under the GPL licence, but because we were issueing likenesses of the characters from 3DR's DN3D, then we would be, in effect, giving away a Duke Nukem game to someone who could do exactly that. So the HRP license was modified to reflect this.

Others have tried to 'port' Duke to other game engines and have had cease-and-desist-or-we'll-sue-your-ass letters delivered to them.

[MusicallyInspired]

I'm fine with no Duke in other games and all that, but what about a Duke Nukem player model used for like Half-Life or something as a multiplayer model. Is that also not allowed? Wouldn't that be as "bad" as using Duke Nukem as an avatar on a non-3DR/Duke related message board?

[Jimmy]

I dont mind Duke being used, but I havent seen a mod yet with Duke or Duke stuff (except Doom mods) where it didnt suck.

[Danukem]

MusicallyInspired, on May 21 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

I'm fine with no Duke in other games and all that, but what about a Duke Nukem player model used for like Half-Life or something as a multiplayer model. Is that also not allowed? Wouldn't that be as "bad" as using Duke Nukem as an avatar on a non-3DR/Duke related message board?

People routinely use fan made depictions of copyrighted characters in games from other franchises. Characters from Star Wars, various anime series, etc. are a staple in multiplayer games, and no reasonable person thinks there is anything wrong with it from an ethical standpoint. Legally, I'm not sure. Some copyright holders may make claims, but I don't know if it has ever been tested. The player models are not being used commercially and not being broadcast publicly (unless you count their availability for download) so on the face of it there isn't much of a case to be made for damages.

It seems to me that the people who come to a Duke Nukem forum asking about whether this or that is legal, or insisting that it should be, are just asking for trouble. The fact is, if they just went about their business and made their mods, they would probably get away with it and they could spare us the trouble of pointless bickering.

[Jukno Kim]

Captain Awesome, on May 21 2009, 03:52 PM, said:

I dont mind Duke being used, but I havent seen a mod yet with Duke or Duke stuff (except Doom mods) where it didnt suck.

This one is pretty good, I think:

Duke Nukem in MUGEN

[leilei]

Crappy Duke knockoffs were all over Quake in 96/97 starting with the Qtest Duke skin. 3DR didn't do anything about it then though (They were all pre-DNF-announcement anyway). However, there is no Duke levels recreated, with the original textures or not, for Quake, back in 96/97.

Just because it 'exists' doesn't make it right though. I can't even make an original game just only using the source code without them barking at me 'using their property in that fashion' all while abiding the GNU GPL license it shipped with. Sigh. If I can't do it 100% legal, then any less legal than that wouldn't make a difference to 3DR. They do have the right to defend their intellectual property though, but in my case I wasn't using any names, sound, maps or graphics.

[OpenMaw]

leilei, on Jun 3 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Crappy Duke knockoffs were all over Quake in 96/97 starting with the Qtest Duke skin. 3DR didn't do anything about it then though (They were all pre-DNF-announcement anyway). However, there is no Duke levels recreated, with the original textures or not, for Quake, back in 96/97.

Technically there was a map based around Duke fighting Duke clones map which used nothing but duke art and sound assets, as well as a mod called "trilogy" which had Doom, Quake, and Duke as playable characters in a multiplayer arena map, with three unique sections based around each character.