[Mark]

deleted

[Forge]

https://www.tp-link....upport/faq/440/

[Paul B]

Forge, on 10 June 2019 - 04:07 PM, said:

Just do what Paul said and call your ISP and tell them to shut off the NAT / turn on the bridge in your modem
When they ask why, tell them it interferes with your fathers pace-maker updates that come through his cell phone.

Typically, the Bridge function is enforced through a policy based on an attribute under the ISP customer information. Regardless if the firmware gets defaulted it still would get auto re-provisioned for Bridge mode. It won't come out of Bridge mode unless they make a policy change under the customers account.

WDS bridging is not what I am talking about. Forge is really confused. I'm not talking about repeating a WIFI signal but i'm sure he already knows that. Another article you can safely ignore by him.

Forge you are throwing all these random articles out there hoping to hit a bullseye. When you don't really understand the technology rather than attempt to come across like a resident expert perhaps just take a step back and listen.

[Forge]

You insist on trying to get him to call his ISP when he doesn't want to deal with them. You also make assumptions about what his ISP is going to do with the router settings when they've shown a history of changing things on a whim because they probably don't match some default template.

I can safely post whatever I want. A little extra reading about the equipment he's getting won't hurt him any.

Obviously he can't set that up, his ISP modem isn't broadcasting wifi. If Mark can get the second modem working, they'll have to be cabled together anyway.

@Mark -try LAN to LAN, or LAN to WAN connection and see if the modem's smart enough not to double-NAT and/or has the DHCP set to auto. If it isn't, you can't do anything until you either have the ISP set up the Bridge in their modem, or you can try to forward all your ports.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 10 June 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

You insist on trying to get him to call his ISP when he doesn't want to deal with them. You also make assumptions about what his ISP is going to do with the router settings when they've shown a history of changing things on a whim because they probably don't match some default template.

I can safely post whatever I want. A little extra reading about the equipment he's getting won't hurt him any.

@Mark -try LAN to LAN connection and see if the modem's smart enough not to double-NAT. If it isn't, you can't do anything until you either have the ISP set up the Bridge in their modem, or you can try to forward all your ports.

The thing is his concerns deal with who he is paying. He should be going directly to them when he has a problem not us. He's being overly paranoid about his ISP and that's very odd to me. Obviously he doesn't trust his provider so I don't understand why he just doesn't pack up and go somewhere else. No one is holding him hostage to that provider.

[Mark]

Lan to Lan is my initial test. It would be great if it works decently. If not, hello support hell.
I guess that wraps it up until I plug and play. I got a notice the router shipped out today and I should have it in 2-5 days. Thanks to both of you.

[Forge]

Paul B, on 10 June 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:

The thing is his concerns deal with who he is paying. He should be going directly to them when he has a problem not us. He's being overly paranoid about his ISP and that's very odd to me. Obviously he doesn't trust his provider so I don't understand why he just doesn't pack up and go somewhere else. No one is holding him hostage to that provider.

I agree.
Comcast is bad, but not even close to how bad that ISP sounds

[Forge]

the only thing I read about the modem he's getting and running the same ISP Mark uses. They had to do something to mimic the MAC address, or something like that. I don't know anything about that. Maybe they meant allowing with unrestricted access.


here it is:

Quote

Working great for both. Internet is Spectrum, and it was necessary to clone the MAC address to get it to work. Instructions were included, no big deal. My home router was a lot more expensive, and I'm thinking I should have just bought this.

pretty vague, and I still don't know what they're original problem was

[Paul B]

Forge, on 10 June 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

the only thing I read about the modem he's getting and running the same ISP Mark uses. They had to do something to mimic the MAC address, or something like that. I don't know anything about that. Maybe they meant allowing with unrestricted access.


here it is:


pretty vague, and I still don't know what they're original problem was

A MAC Address is a hardware address that is assigned to all network interface cards (NIC ports). It's a unique HEX decimal address that identifies the Vendor of the hardware and it can be used or controlled only by the local network segment it is connected to and to authorize or de authorize devices on a local network. Some Internet providers use this hardware address to assign Semi Static IP's, IP leases & network access to the internet by registering this address in their proxy server to issue public addresses instead of internal IP addresses. If you clone a MAC address it just means rather than using the hardware specific address bound to the NIC you are spoofing a MAC on a totally different device so that the ISP can't tell you're using a totally different device. This can offer privacy and retain network access. Giving this MAC address out to anyone on the internet is useless unless you are both connected to the same local area network. MAC Addresses operate in Layer 2 of the OSI model.

In Mark's case it would be interesting to know which MAC he has already registered. Then he can just write it down, transfer that MAC address to his new router spoofing the MAC registered with his ISP and after a reboot he should have full access to his internet connection again on the new router.

[Forge]

Paul B, on 10 June 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:

A MAC Address is

are you still mad because I messed with you?
brought it on yourself by insisting I was wrong about how I had my modems setup, then doubled-down and told me I was wrong about them again after I gave you a diagram. If I wasn't being clear, you should have asked for clarification instead of acting like a flawless subject-matter grand-marshal.

don't be all hurt; condescending isn't a good look for you.

Now for the actual related potential issue:
Why
Why would the person need to clone the MAC address in the first place and what did it have to do with the modem? - What was the initial reason for doing so? Was it because the person tried to connect multiple devices to the modem, but the network had them locked out - i.e. like a cable service provider trying to keep people from sharing cable. Did it have to do with the ISP, the type of service, or the equipment? Was the other home router involved?

I brought it up because it's the same modem and the same ISP as Mark's. Hopefully it's nothing, but it's something to be aware of.

Paul B, on 10 June 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:

In Mark's case it would be interesting to know which MAC he has already registered. Then he can just write it down, transfer that MAC address to his new router spoofing the MAC registered with his ISP and after a reboot he should have full access to his internet connection again on the new router.

If this is feasible, then it would save a lot of issues - until the ISP tried to run firmware updates and figured out they were locked out of an unknown device on their network.
He'd be better of just registering it with the ISP if it's on their allowable devices and returning their modem.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 10 June 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

are you still mad because I messed with you?
brought it on yourself by insisting I was wrong about how I had my modems setup, then doubled-down and told me I was wrong about them again after I gave you a diagram. If I wasn't being clear, you should have asked for clarification instead of acting like a flawless subject-matter grand-marshal.

Now for the actual related potential issue:
Why
Why would the person need to clone the MAC address in the first place and what did it have to do with the modem? - What was the initial reason for doing so? Was it because the person tried to connect multiple devices to the modem, but the network had them locked out - i.e. like a cable service provider trying to keep people from sharing cable. Did it have to do with the ISP, the type of service, or the equipment?

The reason why you would want to clone a MAC is for ease of setup. Let's say you don't have access to the device registration page of the ISP but you know which MAC you registered for your internet connection. You simply can transfer that MAC address to another device at your house to move your internet service to that new device. ISP's also can control how many routers or computers you can use to have internet by only allowing 1 or 2 MAC address registrations with their service. Really you only need one MAC registration to have hundreds of computers connected to the internet as that's the purpose of using your own Router. ISP's can also use the MAC to provide you with a static or what I call a semi static IP. When ISP's update their online customer access portals this can result in these registered devices to be forgotten forcing customers to re-register with loss of internet and loss of semi static IP. Another reason why I am not a fan of ISP MAC registration. I'd prefer just to pay the extra $ for a static IP that I can just input in the WAN port settings rather than leaving my WAN port set to Dynamic with use of MAC registration.

[Forge]

Paul B, on 10 June 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

The reason why you would want to clone a MAC is for ease of setup. Let's say you don't have access to the device registration page of the ISP but you know which MAC you registered for your internet connection. You simply can transfer that MAC address to another device

that's reasonable. Mark needs to get the mac address from that isp modem.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 10 June 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

He'd be better of just registering it with the ISP if it's on their allowable devices and returning their modem.

He still needs the ISP's modem. His modem is a modem/router all in one.(Converting his Coax cable to Ethernet). If his modem is operating in Router mode then the WAN MAC of on his modem is whats registered with his ISP.

If his modem is bridged then whatever device is directly connected to his modem whether it be PC, network printer or router is registered for Internet by his ISP. Registration can be automatic and transparent to the end user. When all free registration slots are used then access to the ISP's online customer access portal is necessary to deregister a device to free up a slot. If more registered devices are required the ISP will charge you for each device you add. Typically they offer one or two registrations (1 or 2 devices). Any more and you need to pay for additional registrations/devices.

I have a feeling Marks modem might already be bridged. Which is why he noticed his Wifi disappear. I believe his PC is probably not behind a router and when he wants to add a new device to the Internet the ISP wants to charge him for additional device registrations. This would make the most sense. So we just need to know which MAC is registered which is probably the MAC of his PC network card. If we clone that to the new router he gets and remove the cable between his modem and computer and connect it to the WAN port of the router instead and connect an Ethernet cable from his router's LAN port to the back of his computer he should be good to go.

[Forge]

Forge, on 09 June 2019 - 07:19 PM, said:

I run mine unbridged

my setup:
comcast modem connected to wall cable - lan wire out to netgear modem - netgear lan wire out to computer

[Paul B]

Forge said:

Forge, on 09 June 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:
I run mine unbridged

my setup:
comcast modem connected to wall cable - lan wire out to netgear modem - netgear lan wire out to computer

What you meant to say though is:

Comcast modem connected to wall Coax spigot - Ethernet cable from Comcast Modem to Netgear Router's WAN Port. Netgear LAN Ethernet cable to computer. That's a pretty typical setup. You think we can connect Mark's the same way. I think we can =)

[Mark]

I'm a dummy but I thought that since I have 2 computers plugged into 2 of the 4 ethernet ports on the modem/router that I am not in bridge mode right now.

When I used to be able to get into the device, wifi on/off and bridging were 2 separate things. I could turn off wifi and still be unbridged.

[Paul B]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

I'm a dummy but I thought that since I have 2 computers plugged into 2 of the 4 ethernet ports on the modem/router that I am not in bridge mode right now.

When I used to be able to get into the device, wifi on/off and bridging were 2 separate things. I could turn off wifi and still be unbridged.

I beg to differ. The two ports on your router might just be public ports. I bet you have no security or hardware firewall running at all except for that of the Operating system which is terrible unless you pay for a third party software internet security package.

[Forge]

Paul B, on 11 June 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

What you meant to say though is:

it says exactly that, just less anal.

But it induced fits of autistic screeching, so it has its upside

[Mark]

Then I guess I'll be ok when I get those comps behind the new router.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 11 June 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

it says exactly that, just less anal

A router is not a modem. There is no modulation / demodulation in a basic netgear router. Modems and routers are fundamentally different devices. Modems transform one type of data signal into a different type (one that is appropriate for devices within a local area network), whereas routers distribute the data received from the modem to smartphones, laptops, and other end devices in the network.

[Mark]

Paul B, on 11 June 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

I beg to differ. The two ports on your router might just be public ports. I bet you have no security or hardware firewall running at all except for that of the Operating system which is terrible unless you pay for a third party software internet security package.

That would mean potentially 100's of 1,000s or millions of Spectrum users would be running unprotected.

[Paul B]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

Then I guess I'll be ok when I get those comps behind the new router.

The only problem you will run into for internet access is programming the already registered MAC address into your new router.

[Forge]

Paul B, on 11 June 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

A router is not a modem. There is no modulation in a basic netgear router. Modems and routers are fundamentally different devices. Modems transform one type of data signal into a different type (one that is appropriate for devices within a local area network), whereas routers distribute the data received from the modem to smartphones, laptops, and other end devices in the network.

*artificial diamond manufacturing noises*

[Paul B]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

That would mean potentially 100's of 1,000s or millions of Spectrum users would be running unprotected.

Not if they are running in Router mode or they properly have their devices connected to their own router which most do.

[Mark]

I remember for a short time my dad had a wired router downstairs for his 2 comps to connect upstairs at the ISP's device. Plug and play. Nothing to set up.

[Paul B]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

I remember for a short time my dad had a wired router downstairs for his 2 comps to connect upstairs at the ISP's device. Plug and play. Nothing to set up.

That's the way it should be! Just keep in mind your ISP only allows for you to use so many devices connected directly to the Modem. So if you exceed that amount then you either spoof a device or you sign in to remove previously registered devices that aren't in use any longer or you pay the ISP to allow you to add more.

[Forge]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

When I used to be able to get into the device, wifi on/off and bridging were 2 separate things. I could turn off wifi and still be unbridged.

they are two independent things.
Bridging has nothing to do with turning wifi on / off

Bridging (simplified) is the modem taking the network connection from the ISP and passing it through to an access point device (a router, or another router/modem)

I make no assumptions; he might have been talking about two different things, but the way he wrote it could be misleading.

Paul B, on 11 June 2019 - 06:35 AM, said:

I have a feeling Marks modem might already be bridged. Which is why he noticed his Wifi disappear.

[Paul B]

Forge, on 11 June 2019 - 10:29 AM, said:

they are two independent things.
Bridging has nothing to do with turning wifi on / off

Bridging (simplified) is the modem taking the network connection from the ISP and passing it through to an access point device (a router, or another router/modem)

Wrong again. When a Modem/Router combination device is operating in Bridge mode NAT must get disabled which in turn disables Routing, Firewall service, DHCP & WIFI on the device that is being bridged. It effectively causes the device from operating at Layer 3 of the OSI model and dumbs it down to Layer 2 switching. I am not talking about wireless bridging. I'm talking about wired bridging.


Forge just give it a rest please.

[Mark]

That may be true but I said wifi can be shut off without going into bridge mode.

From website: You can tell if the modem is in bridge mode for most providers when the device connected directly to it gets a public IP, not in the private 192.168,xxx.xxx, 172.16.xxx.xxx, or 10.xxx.xxx.xxx range.

According to "whatsmyIP.com my IP is in the 72.xxx range. So maybe I'm not bridged.
OOps,my mistake. Mine shows in the 72 range, not 172 like the example

[Paul B]

Mark, on 11 June 2019 - 10:40 AM, said:

That may be true but I said wifi can be shut off without going into bridge mode.

This is absolutely correct.